[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 200 of the Bandhive Podcast It is time for another episode of the Bandive Podcast. My name is James Cross, and I am here with the one, the only, Matt Hose of Alive in Barcelona. How are you doing today, Matt?

[00:00:17] Matt: I am doing fantastic, James. short of, uh… small headache this morning. things are looking pretty good. It's kind of a little bit more overcast here today, and it's been, it's been pretty warm this last week. So I think the temperature is supposed to drop down by about like 10 degrees, which is gonna be really nice.

[00:00:32] Matt: been working in, in 90 degree weather, so it's gonna be about 80 today, which is that's a big difference in Colorado, so, I'm very excited. It's, what I call red headed weather outside because the sun is not shining. So, Colorado has, very vibrant change of seasons.

[00:00:48] Matt: So, excited to be moving into fall and to see all the uh, all the trees change colors and, just to see what's next this year.

[00:00:55] James: Yeah, well, I'm sorry to hear about the headache, but I'm thrilled about everything else you [00:01:00] got going on there. But I do have to make you a little jealous. It is 59 degrees here in Vermont, and it is actually raining. It's not just overcast, it's raining.

[00:01:08] Matt: You suck,

[00:01:09] James: very German Let me see what the high is.

[00:01:13] James: Which, by the way, 59 is the same as 15 Celsius, for those of you international folks who are wondering. The high is 69, so it's gonna get a little warmer, but still, we're not even gonna hit 70, which is kinda nice. I'm working an outdoor show later today. So hopefully the rain lets up enough for that show to happen.

[00:01:29] James: We'll see.

[00:01:30] Matt: Make sure to take your poncho.

[00:01:32] James: Oh yes, and I have trash bags for my mixer and the mains and all of that. And the stage is covered, thankfully, so.

[00:01:39] Matt: baggie for your phone.

[00:01:41] James: dude, I have like an indestructible case. Knock on wood.

[00:01:44] Matt: I could destroy

[00:01:45] James: Years ago, my friend who might listen to this podcast, He told me he bought an indestructible phone and like two weeks later he goes, James, you'll never guess what happened.

[00:01:54] James: I shattered my phone's screen. And I felt so bad, but I'm like, man, you were [00:02:00] telling me two weeks ago it's indestructible and now you shattered the screen.

[00:02:04] Matt: I remember when Nalgene bottles came out and everybody was like, Oh yeah, they're indestructible, they're indestructible. And Nalgene was like, yeah, if one breaks, we'll replace it. And so then everybody decided it was going to be a good idea to like, throw them off of canyons and you know, just like, they'd be like rock climbing.

[00:02:18] Matt: And then they, you know, just like intention, yeah, intentionally drop it. And it's like, yeah, guys, the bottle is very hard plastic, but the lid. Will absolutely still break.

[00:02:27] James: Oh.

[00:02:29] Matt: and, dude, they really quickly changed their tune. Just like when Otterbox did, and they're like, If your phone breaks, we'll replace the iPhone. And so people were just like, OK. And then they were like, OK, let's, redact this statement and let's say If you break your, your phone, then we'll give you a new case.

[00:02:46] James: yeah. Yeah, this is like a knockoff of the OtterBox. It's by Poetic. But I like it because it has a little kickstand built in. So I can stand it

[00:02:55] Matt: It's not a river otter. it's a little otter box.

[00:02:57] James: Yeah, exactly. And it's also [00:03:00] slimmer than an OtterBox is the other nice thing.

[00:03:02] Matt: The Otter Box Slim.

[00:03:03] James: Yes, I like that

[00:03:05] Matt: Well, he… Oh, dude, there's lots of things. There should be lots of things.

[00:03:09] James: was a company that I got their cases for years. I loved them and they stopped making them. And I was very disappointed when I got my new phone and discovered that I cannot get cases from that company anymore.

[00:03:18] James: Anyway, that's not what we're here to talk about today. We're here to celebrate episode number 200. And you might remember, when we hit 100, we actually went through all of our favorite… Songs and albums. That was a really fun one. It was episode 110 albums that hit us right in the feels. So if you want to go listen to that, you can head on over to bandhive.

[00:03:41] James: rocks slash one zero zero. That's the number 100. And check out that episode. If you want to hear what albums inspired us to become the human beings that we are today. And Matt, I gotta say, that was one of my favorite episodes. Because we don't usually talk about ourselves. Like, we'll talk about our experiences, but we don't say…[00:04:00] [00:04:00] James: Hey, this is me, you know, I think that was a really fun episode for that reason.

[00:04:04] Matt: a good mind, you know, that's a nice lens for being able to understand where we are coming from too, understanding that we all come from like metal and punk backgrounds that allows you to, uh, say like, okay, well a lot of what they're talking about is going to be more, more related to Underground music and DIY, which is the whole point.

[00:04:24] Matt: but yeah, no, I couldn't agree more, man. That episode was tons of fun. It was a nice stroll down memory lane, thinking about great albums like What It Is to Burn and, and Page Avenue and, how those have affected our lives, even, you know, now, you know, 15, 16, 17 years later.

[00:04:40] James: Yep Well, want to hear something crazy? I Just yesterday was listening to there's only chasing safety and I've never really gotten into under oath Which you mentioned them on on that episode And I was listening and I was like, man, this is really good. And I just discovered something now. I pulled it up on Wikipedia.

[00:04:59] James: It [00:05:00] was produced by James Paul Wiesner, who just did the mixes for my band's new songs. So that's like a little, a cool little tie in where I'm just like, now getting into Under Earth. I'm like, oh, that's the same dude.

[00:05:11] Matt: Yep.

[00:05:11] James: But the scary thing is that was released June 15th, 2004. So that is 19 and a half years old now.

[00:05:17] Matt: That's crazy. Wow. Time flies.

[00:05:19] James: Yeah, it really does. Cygnus Sorrow turned 26 months ago. But anyway, this week on the show, we're gonna highlight what has happened in the music industry in the last four years. With a big focus on our favorite episodes of the Bandhive podcast and why those are our favorites. But also, talking about some of the biggest news and the current goings on in the music business. And before we really dive into our favorite episodes, we can't ignore the big one. The Great Panini. the world changed when the pandemic hit. And for those of you who weren't with us from the start, we recorded 10 episodes of this podcast in advance and we launched it in December of 2019. And we stayed 10 episodes [00:06:00] ahead until March of 2020 and the pandemic hit. And we had. 10 episodes all about touring lined up, ready to go. So what I did is I just recorded a quick new intro for every episode, basically saying, yeah, so there's a global pandemic. You can't tour right now, but learn this for when it's over.

[00:06:18] James: Cause you're going to need it. and a lot of people thought touring would never come back. Well, it did. And for a lot of folks, the consensus is touring is busier than ever before. However, It's the bigger artists who are touring more. Smaller artists are not touring as much, which is an interesting shift in the industry. The other really interesting thing was the way the world came together to support musicians via live streaming or other income streams for those artists when touring was shut down overnight and it went away just as quickly. Even Facebook, they had their, like, paid livestream service. They just shut that down over the summer.

[00:06:56] James: That's gone. They ran it for, like, three years and now it's gone [00:07:00] forever. Or until they decide to bring it back when there's another, global shutdown of events. And it shows that all of those changes with people staying home and not going to shows, like, people are going to shows again.

[00:07:10] James: Livestreams. They're a thing of the past, essentially. Like, you can still stream once in a while, but it's not the same as it was during the height of the pandemic. But what we've seen is upwards trends in how much money people are willing to spend on the artists they enjoy. For example, looking at the AtVenue reports, every year since the pandemic, The average per head has been going up, which I think for 2023, the first half in that report that they released, it actually went down by like 8 cents or something. The trend overall is still upwards, which is an amazing thing for artists, because that means you can earn more money from merch at your shows.

[00:07:47] Matt: More money is a good thing.

[00:07:49] James: Always. Unless it's what you have to pay. Then it's a bad thing.

[00:07:51] Matt: Then it's a good thing for them.

[00:07:52] James: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Now, let's… Jump in Matt and talk about our favorite episodes and we've listed [00:08:00] 10 here. So we already mentioned episode 100 That's not one of the 10. That was a really fun episode But for our favorites here, we're only gonna list episodes where we had guests because we didn't want to go on and say hey This is the favorite time where we talked for an hour Just about what we would do.

[00:08:15] James: So, we wrote down our 10 favorite guest episodes. And this includes Howie Spangler from Ballyhoo, Brian Mazzaferri of iFightDragons, Stephen Pell, who wrote an amazing book about accounting for artists, Vadim Karaz of DIY Recording Guys, and so many more. We've had so many amazing guests on this show, we can't possibly name them all.

[00:08:34] James: I would love to. But there's just, know, with 200 episodes, there are so many guests. So here are our top 10 in numerical order. These aren't from, you know, favorite to least favorite or anything like that. Just our top 10 episodes, our top 10 interviews with guests in numerical order. And I got to say, this probably was one of my favorite ones on the entire show, just because I love this band.

[00:08:57] James: It was number 48 and the title is One Band, [00:09:00] 25 Years and Counting, Howie Spangler of Valley Who. And this was actually a pandemic era I'm a huge Ballyhoo fan, so that's why it's one of my favorites. And I've interviewed Howie at least once before, back when I was in my radio days. I can't remember if it was once or twice.

[00:09:16] James: I actually hit him with a door once. Fun fact. I, I had interviewed Anti Flag, R. I. P. Anti Flag. It's such a shame the way that ended and the reasons it ended. Horrendous. But, interviewed Anti Flag, and as I was walking out to get back into the main room of the venue to watch the set, I just opened the door and felt a thud, and then, I'm just like, Oh, sorry Howie, cause he was on the other side trying to open it, I just smacked him with the door. Howie, if this is your first time hearing about that, yeah that was me, I'm sorry. San Diego 2017, if it helped spark your memory. loved that interview, talked about live streaming, but also talked about how their band Essentially spent 20 years not making money. And [00:10:00] then the last five years or so, this was in 2020 was the height of the pandemic.

[00:10:03] James: They had turned things around and started making money and it was like a career for them now. So if you want to check that out, it's at bandhive. rocks. Slash 48. That's the number 48. The next one, and this is a highlight for me because the guest has actually become a close personal friend of mine. It's number 53.

[00:10:20] James: Getting signed. The most common types of record deals. Matt Bacon of Dropout Media. about a month or so after we recorded this episode, which I think you were on it as well, Matt, I think we had Matt and Matt on that episode,

[00:10:33] Matt: Indeed.

[00:10:33] James: Matt posted on his story about wanting to learn German. And for a while we were speaking on the phone, German.

[00:10:40] James: Every week. And we still try to do that, but he's traveling a lot more now that the pandemic's over, so time zones and stuff. But at least once or twice a month, we'll still hop on the phone and just speak German for a half hour, and it's very refreshing. I crashed at his place when I went down to see Enter Shikari in New York back in May. point being, I can also thank the podcast for some close personal friends, which there's [00:11:00] a couple more that are coming down the pipeline here while I mentioned that as well. If your band wants to understand the types of record deals that you make get offered, and this is really important. If you don't understand the deals you might get offered, then you don't understand the deal you're getting.

[00:11:14] James: And that is very, very dangerous for a band. If you don't understand what you're signing, you're going to get screwed over so easily.

[00:11:21] Matt: Can't make a decision that's not an informed decision.

[00:11:25] James: Exactly. A hundred percent, Matt. And so, that episode is number 53. It's at bandhive. rocks slash 5 3, the number 53. And, again, that's with Matt Bacon of Dropout Media. And we actually had him back on the show, at least once, perhaps even twice. I'd have to look at the uh, list, but, you know, I said we're going to stop at ten mentions.

[00:11:44] James: Now, Matt, this next one is… One that you wanted to put in the list, and I fully agree with you. This was a really great episode.

[00:11:51] Matt: Yeah, Why Recording Demos Makes Your Songs Better with Vadim Karaz of DIY Recording Guys. Vadim was absolutely riveting to speak with. Just a very well educated, [00:12:00] very well versed individual. it's always refreshing. You know, in the music industry, you're going to meet a whole lot of people who, are flying by the seat of their pants and they don't really know what they're doing, and that's okay.

[00:12:09] Matt: life is a process of testing and feedback loops. You know, you need to test things, you need to understand how they work, and you need to adapt and overcome. you guys all know I like quotes, and so uh, use a Bruce Lee quote. Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is uniquely your own.

[00:12:25] Matt: And, I think that when you meet somebody in the music industry that really understands that concept and can implement it, it's always just incredible to, you know, you walk away from the conversation just being like, man, I want to keep talking. Vadim was definitely that.

[00:12:39] Matt: Especially for me, it was, it was awesome to see uh, people who had done a lot of work. Behind the scenes, you know, and so whenever you see that, it's like, okay, this is the right mentality and everything that he had to say was just absolutely awesome, you know, and, and I'm definitely not the audio engineer guy.

[00:12:56] Matt: I'm more of the songwriting and, and, and marketing, but, Maybe that's what [00:13:00] makes it so riveting for me is when you have somebody that can come in and, in one sentence, tell you something crisp, clean, clear, that gets you right where you want to be, and that really, you know, paints a wonderful picture, and gives you enough information that you can make an informed decision.

[00:13:14] Matt: Those people are always, always worth remembering, 75, with of DIY Recording Guys, I'd highly recommend that episode. it was a great one for me to be on it's awesome when, you've been in the music industry for a long time and then you meet somebody and they just have a, pool of information, and it's like, ah, yes, finally, you know, when you finally find those people, it's like, say that in some decades, nothing happens, and in some years, decades happen.

[00:13:41] Matt: And I think the same goes for the people that you meet and the information that you glean. you know, sometimes you meet lots of people and you don't really learn anything, and sometimes you meet one person and you just learn, years worth of information, and it's like, oh, man. So I will always remember that, that episode for sure.

[00:13:57] James: Yeah, absolutely, that was an amazing [00:14:00] episode, which you can listen to at bandhive. rocks. com yeah, Vadim is one of the smartest people I know. do a catch up call like once or twice a year, just to see how things are going, because we're still in touch. And absolutely, just like… The amount of stuff that Vadim has accomplished, both as an engineer and outside the music world, is incredible.

[00:14:19] James: And, just, you talk to him and you're just like, Man, I thought I was smart, but this guy's like, next level.

[00:14:25] Matt: he has fortitude.

[00:14:26] Matt: what is observably apparent is that you can look at him and, a lot of the time when you, put your head down and you grind for long periods of time, you get fatigue. and everybody gets it. It's, you know, whether you look at a computer screen all day, whether you work on an assembly line, whether you swing a hammer, And so it's always really refreshing to find somebody who is still just like passionate about their craft and still passionate about learning new things about their craft, because, there's always a certain point where no matter what you're doing, you either feel like you've plateaued or you feel like you can't find a mentor to help push you to the next step and [00:15:00] seeing Vadim and how hard he's worked and seeing, you know, what he's accomplished, like you're saying, and seeing, you know, what he's done.

[00:15:05] Matt: How little fatigue he wore, coming on that episode. There was no, there was, it was not a chore. It wasn't work to him. He was just excited, we've chosen music producers for that exact reason. you can pay all the money to have the guy with the, the perfect title and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and all the credits and all the, all this and all the bells and whistles.

[00:15:21] Matt: It's like, or you can have somebody that's passionate about it. And when you find somebody that's like passionate about something, when they get excited about it, the best products that we've ever received from audio engineers in general are from the people who are just like, they get giddy when they hear something, And then it's like, Oh. Yes, these are the types of people that you just need to be an amorphous blob and just suck them into your life and never let them go.

[00:15:43] James: Yeah. You know, I love that you're talking about that, because actually the most recent episode on the list, which we'll get to, I'm a big fan of that episode for many of the same reasons. He's not a music producer, he's an artist manager, but we'll get there in time. this next one is number 77, but before we get into that…

[00:15:59] James: I forgot to [00:16:00] mention this at the beginning. In a very funny coincidence, on my time hop this morning, I saw that four years ago to the day, we're recording this on August 25th, it's coming out on September 26th, but today, August 25th, we are recording episode 200. And four years ago, August 25th, 2019, I made a Facebook post saying we just finished recording episode one.

[00:16:21] James: So that was Aaron and I. Which, massive shoutout to Aaron for being part of so many episodes along the way as well. You know, we used to have three co hosts, now it's just the two of us, Matt. But yeah, Aaron was a huge part of this as well. So thank you, Aaron. Shout out to Suburban Samurai, and also, he's the drummer in Nerves as well, so just so you know, folks Nerves is not gonna be Nerves much longer.

[00:16:42] James: We're probably about a week or two after this episode drops, we're gonna have a new name. So stay tuned for that, if everything goes well. 77. Lessons learned from a fan supported DIY band. Brian Mazzaferri of iFightDragons. Another band that I [00:17:00] idolized growing up. And I've interviewed, I think that was my fourth time interviewing Brian or the band. So I've spoken with them a lot. There was a day on Warped Tour where uh, It was the Darien Lake show with the amusement park and my friend Steph and I went to go ride the roller coasters and there was I Fight Dragons and they were like, hey, you should ride the roller coasters with us.

[00:17:17] James: So, we had a good time doing that. Got to hang with them a little bit after work on that stop of the tour. Really just amazing people. And I was so excited to have Brian on the show to talk about Patreon. Because they have an incredibly unique model for their Patreon. Which is not that you pay per month, it is that you pay per release.

[00:17:37] James: They've essentially turned it into a perpetual Kickstarter. Because anytime they put out a new album, first of all, they document the whole journey. But then they'll say, Hey, next Tuesday is going to be the paid post. Which means that… If you're there for that post, you're going to be charged whatever amount you're subscribed at and you'll get the perks for that amount.

[00:17:56] James: And this way, they don't have to campaign every time to get new [00:18:00] folks to donate to their Kickstarter. They just say, hey, if you don't have the money or you don't want to contribute this time, get yourself out right now because we're going to bill you next week. And that is a much easier way to do it than begging people to donate to pledge on Kickstarter every single time. So definitely check that out, bandhive. rocks. com slash 77, because I think that is so incredibly smart. Next one, this is another one where I have now a close personal friend through it. It's number 115, writer's block, not anymore, Connor Frost of Dizzy Bats. Connor actually, that's the second or maybe even third episode I did with him.

[00:18:32] James: But there was a previous episode where he just reached out, got a cold email saying, I'd love to be on your show, and we made it happen, and found out that he and his girlfriend were going to visit Vermont. So they visited Vermont, I gave him tickets to a baseball game, cause he's a baseball fan. And, uh, I volunteer at the team, so I get like a stack of tickets every year.

[00:18:47] James: Met up, and then he says, we're gonna move to Vermont. So now he lives an hour away, we hang out a bunch. I've been a cat sitter for their cat, Abby, who is missing her tail, unfortunately. Doesn't [00:19:00] seem to bother her, though. so I have Kat sat there a bunch. And just another good friend.

[00:19:04] James: Uh, When I went to Alaska last year, he came along. So, again, shout out to the podcast for bringing good, smart people into my life. Connor Frost. Amazing songwriter and that's what he does. He's a songwriter coach So if you want to learn more about what he does, that's episode 115.

[00:19:20] James: You can go to bandhive. rocks Slash 115. That's the number 115. Matt. This next one is somebody I think we both know number 156 the modern diy band john james ryan of keep flying And let me just say this if you've ever done warp tour, you probably know john james ryan of keep flying Because he is the guy.

[00:19:41] James: Somehow, I didn't know him for my years on the tour. But, when I met him, we were like, Oh, we know all the same people. It was one of those moments of how do we not know each other? Anyway, that was a really fun episode because he was talking about his shift from… being a tour manager and crew member to playing [00:20:00] in his own band. Because as much as he loved touring with other artists he realized that His passion was for making music.

[00:20:07] James: And so, you know, Keep Flying is not anywhere near the level of the bands he was working for, but he is so much happier because they go out there and they have a great time on stage. And trust me, like, seeing them on stage You can tell they're having the times of their lives up there. And we're talking like, you know, like a six or seven piece ska punk band on a stage that has trouble holding three people. And they're just up there rocking it as if it's like the biggest stage ever, as if they're playing Madison Square Garden or something. They are phenomenal. So I highly recommend, check out Keep Flying if they're coming to your area. Say hi to John. tell 'em you heard about the band on the Band Hive podcast, if that's where you first heard of them.

[00:20:47] James: And check out that episode. It's number 1 56. You can go to band hive rock slash 1 56 to listen to that episode. Next one, Matt, this is another great one that you were a big fan of, as was I, but I'll let you [00:21:00] take this one away.

[00:21:00] Matt: Yeah, setting yourself up for smooth sailing with Stephen Pell from Iconic. Yeah, Stephen was, again, just, just riveting to talk to. Very clearly had all of his ducks in a row. And, he also, what was really cool, you know, we have the added benefit of being able to see each other when we do these.

[00:21:17] Matt: And whole demeanor was just great. from. The slight smile that he had on his face all the time to just the detailed information that he was able to relay. And, the episode speaks for itself. I would highly recommend anybody to go and watch it.

[00:21:33] Matt: Take a listen to episode 161 with Steven Pell. He's just, you know, a soft spoken dude with, with lots of just great information. positivity. When you're in the uh, DIY industry, there's a lot of negativity, because it's a hard game, you know, it's, like I said earlier, it's, it's a feedback loop, it's constantly testing things, which means there's a lot of failure.

[00:21:51] Matt: And, certain people look at failure and say, this is a setback, and other people look at failure and say, no, this is a success, because now I know how not [00:22:00] to do it. Stephen is obviously tested so many things, and is passionate about helping DIY artists set themselves up and start by putting their best foot forward.

[00:22:09] Matt: So, I highly recommend going and checking out. Episode 161, Setting Yourself Up for Smooth Sailing, with Steven. And, or, you know, and checking out ICONAC, I C O N A C, is how that's spelled. Definitely highest recommendations there, cause, Steven is a treasure trove of knowledge.

[00:22:27] Matt: And Any time that you can tap into somebody who is a wealth of knowledge for free, that is a wise decision. So thank you so much, Steven, for being on. we greatly appreciate you.

[00:22:38] James: Absolutely. So you can find that episode at bandhive. rocks slash 161. And two things to note there. ICONIC stands for Icon Accounting because they work with icons. So, a little wordplay there. If you've been a long time listener, you know how much I love wordplay and puns. That's Absolutely up my alley, but Stephen also published a book and that's what we talked about on that [00:23:00] episode because it was right around the release And it's called dream like an artist think like an accountant and the subheading is how creative minds can eliminate business Anxiety and build a wildly successful career.

[00:23:11] James: So highly recommend that book I picked it up myself and it's just Eye opening because as much as I am a numbers guy and nerd out about that stuff I am NOT a numbers guy like Stephen Pell is he lives for numbers. He lives for strategy. So, check out that book, and check out episode 161, where we interviewed Stephen. Next up, we're down to the last two here. Or actually, sorry, last three, last three. I can count. Number 173, The Musician's Grind. Why it's okay to press pause. With my good friend, Todd Barich. And I want to say, we did have Todd on the show before that. I think this was actually his third episode. And the first interview we did with Todd was why you need to put out content every week because this is what Todd was doing. And while I still support the idea of [00:24:00] that when you're starting out, at a certain point… You have enough traction and you can slow things down a bit, and you wanna do that before you get burnt out. And that's why we were talking about burnout and mental health in this episode. And Todd was specifically saying like, Hey, you have to recognize when you need a break and take that break for your own sanity because not only will it affect your mental health, it will also affect your physical health because if your brain is not doing well, your body's not doing well and vice versa. So absolutely highly recommend episode 1 73. You can go to bandhive. rocks slash 173, that's the number, 173, to hear that one. And, it's just so important, because it is a grind. and without taking a moment to pause and reflect, you're just gonna dig yourself a hole.

[00:24:42] Matt: Todd is also really riveting to talk to because he has a different perspective on how content should be released and how, how simple it can be. A lot of people, I think, overthink about, what it is that he, that you need to do. And he did a really good job of just being like, oh yeah, well I just decided to like, play this song [00:25:00] in a dress, you know, or just like do this cover, you know, and some of the things would be like outlandish and ridiculous.

[00:25:05] James: He released a song called Venus, and it's literally just him saying Venus, and then like pitch shifting it.

[00:25:11] Matt: Yeah.

[00:25:12] James: song. It sounds like a synth, but it's literally just him saying the words.

[00:25:15] James: for anyone wondering, that's Venus, Bravo, Echo, November, India, Sierra.

[00:25:20] Matt: Todd has a lot of really good wisdom and just sees things from a, just like a little bit more of a simple, it's okay for you to kind of be, not only is it but it's, it's, yep, it's encouraged to be a little bit ridiculous funny because every time I look at Todd, I just think of like Frank Zappa, there's, you know, like a famous picture of like Frank Zappa, wearing like a leopard print, banana hammock, and like, staring into, it's like a poster, he's just like, standing there with like his arms off to the side, and he's just wearing this like leopard print man thong, and every time I see Todd, I just think of that poster of Frank Zappa, and it's funny because he just, he has a great energy about him, he's charismatic, [00:26:00] he's open about the fact that he has ADD, or maybe it's ADHD, But, you know, he's, he's a hyper person and instead of saying, this is this giant setback in my life, he leaned into it and said, look, this is what is uniquely my own. And, he personifies that, crazy and it's, it's awesome. It's infectious.

[00:26:18] James: he told me on one of these episodes, or maybe on a call, the reason he started doing these covers and mashups was when he would play live with his band, he would just start singing other bands songs over their own songs. And that's, like, how he got started with mashups, and then he just said, Hey, like, I could actually do this. But also, one of my favorite Todd memories is he did a cover of Weezer's My Name is Jonas, specifically in the pop punk style. But towards the end of the song, there's this portion where they just keep repeating, the workers are going home. The workers are going home. Well, Todd changed the lyrics to be Todd's face on a shirt.

[00:26:53] James: com. And if you go to Todd's face on a shirt. com, that is his merch store. There's literally his merch store. [00:27:00] I just lost it. It got to that section. It was like, what's he singing? Wait, Todd's face on a shirt. com typing in. I'm like, Oh my God, he actually bought that domain. And that's just, I lost it.

[00:27:11] James: I don't think I even finished watching the video. Cause I was just laughing so hard. I had to pause it. That is good marketing. that is genius marketing, because anybody who hears that is gonna remember that. Todd's face on a shirt dot com. that melody gets stuck in your head, right? I actually had to think about what was the original line, and I was like, Oh yeah, the workers are going home. Because whenever I listen to the Weezer version of that song now, I just hear, Todd's face on a shirt dot com. it's that earworm, it gets in there, and that's all you hear now.

[00:27:38] Matt: Then it erases everything else. That's right.

[00:27:40] James: Exactly, exactly. It's like taking a magnet to the hard drive.

[00:27:43] Matt: And there's also something really wise glean that. satirical and it's comical. And you know what he didn't do? He didn't waste time saying, Oh, what am I going to name my merch store? And blah, blah, blah, this. And how is this going to be marketable? And how is this blah, blah, blah, you know. He just circumvented all of that anxiety, all [00:28:00] of that, you know, Just erroneous thought and said, like, why would I do that?

[00:28:03] Matt: I'm going to take my thought and apply it towards the content that I'm releasing, not, you know, like Todd's face on a shirt. com, whenever I see somebody. Yep, exactly. Whenever I see somebody that can make that kind of decision without being. Emotionally attached, you know what I mean?

[00:28:17] Matt: It's like, in the music industry, or just in business in general, when you, when you build something, you want it, you know, to perfectly embody you, and you want it to be this awesome, wonderful thing, and blah, blah, blah, this, and blah, blah, blah, this, and then it's like, the deeper into the industry you get, the more you realize there's gonna be more rejection, and more hate, more naysayers, and blah, blah, blah, this, and then, Perfect is the enemy of done.

[00:28:37] Matt: you can sit there and overanalyze things until you're blue in the face. You won't start making money until you have a store. And I think Todd just absolutely did a fantastic job of, of adding levity to things that other people like to overcomplicate. I view that as the same manner as like Steve Jobs wearing this, you know, black turtleneck and pair of jeans every day.

[00:28:55] Matt: instead of concerning himself with trivial thoughts, he was focused on bigger [00:29:00] things. And that's, you know, with Todd, it's like, yep, He didn't waste time by being like, Oh, how do I make this perfect merch store? It's like, no, just make stuff that people are going to like. why are you weird?

[00:29:10] Matt: And, why are you good at that? and, when you take those two things and you can apply them to your business, that's where you're really going to find, like, your niche market. And so it's absolutely awesome to see somebody be like, look, this is not important.

[00:29:22] Matt: Todd'sFaceOnAShirt. com, we're golden. Okay? Now I can focus on the mashups I'm gonna do, or the, you know, the next YouTube video, or, you know, or whatever, whatever his next piece of content was. He he knew that his focus was creating the content, not, running a fine tooth comb through a haystack looking for a needle that May or may not, by the end of his career, make him an additional, you know, 8%.

[00:29:44] Matt: maybe that would've been worth it. Maybe not. Maybe you would've made less money. No way to tell, no way to test. So instead of concerning yourself with trivial things, get out there and do what you know, revitalizes you. what brings that vigor into your life? And that will allow you to sustain it.

[00:29:59] Matt: 'cause if you don't have [00:30:00] passion and you, you. Losing your heart to all the trivial things and you're too concerned with, you know, the, the order of songs and your CD and blah, blah, blah, this, it's just, you're going to miss the forest for the trees and you're going to get so caught up in the bureaucracy and the tendencies in the music industry that you're going to get a few years down the road and you're going to be like, I hate everything about this.

[00:30:17] Matt: I don't even make music anymore. And it's like, Nope, then you're doing it wrong. And you need to be focusing on what you are and what you need to be doing. Get your aces in their places, and keep the trivial things trivial.

[00:30:28] James: Yeah. 100% agree. And that's why that whole episode is all about taking a step back, putting pause on the grind, and saying, I need a break. I'm gonna take that break. And, you know, to turn around a little bit what you said, Matt, Brian from Six Figure Creative always says, done is better than perfect.

[00:30:45] Matt: Yep.

[00:30:46] James: I think that sums up perfectly what you were saying.

[00:30:48] James: done is better than perfect. Finish it.

[00:30:49] James: if it's not finished, it's not perfect.

[00:30:52] Matt: Yep. And it's not done.

[00:30:53] James: it's out there. Right, exactly. another good friend of mine is Troy Millett. Episode 175, Band [00:31:00] Dynamics and Growth. Troy Millett on authenticity and opportunity in music. And we've had him on the show two or three times as well.

[00:31:06] James: And actually uh, if the weather holds out, I'll be mixing him two days before this episode drops. I love mixing his band. They're so fun. You never know what they're gonna show up with, because he is one of those people who has a flexible band. He can show up solo. duo, trio, full band, but full band could be four, five, six people.

[00:31:25] James: You never know. And so he's booked as a full band. He's definitely gonna have drums and bass, and then he'll play his own guitar. But to quote him, he's not sure if they'll have a lead guitarist or a fiddle player or both. So we'll see the gig gets closer, I'm sure he'll lock in who's going to be there, but it's one of those bands where.

[00:31:42] James: He will play any show he can possibly play, and if the budget is there, he'll bring the band. If the budget isn't there, then he'll do a solo or a duo show. And It's just so incredibly refreshing to see a versatile band. Because so many bands say, don't have our bass player, we can't do this show. [00:32:00] And I mean, I get it, but there's other bands who would say, Well, we'll have somebody fill in on bass. Cool. Or, what Nerves does is We haven't had to do this yet, But we have all of my bass parts, In the computer, That if I can't make it to a show, Okay, backtrack the bass. That's fine. Because We're very selective about the shows we play, but when we get an opportunity that we want to play, we want to play it. So if people can't make it, we've all said, yeah, we're fine with somebody else filling in. Even for the two guitarists and vocalists, they've said, yeah, somebody else can fill in for me if that's needed, we can do it. So I think that's an incredibly important thing to recognize. And that's what Troy has been doing for years. And. They don't play to a click, they play completely live, which I mean, Nervous plays completely live too, except for like, the synths, because we don't have a synth player. Sorry, we're not gonna bring in a keyboard player for like, half a song a couple times in the set. But, Troy does that, and is incredibly flexible, and because of that, he's also one of the most chill people I've ever worked with, because it's literally just like, Oh, [00:33:00] that's not gonna work? Okay, whatever. we'll make it happen anyway.

[00:33:02] James: So if you want to check that episode out, it's number 175. You can find it at bandhive.

[00:33:06] James: rocks slash 175. And honestly, Troy is just one of the nicest people I've ever met, too. I'm convinced that he could not hurt a fly. he's a gentle giant. Let's put it that way. He's like, he's gotta be like 6'2 or something. But super friendly, super happy, big curly hair.

[00:33:22] James: Yeah, super friendly guy. Anyway, number 10 on our list. And again, this is just in numerical order. This is not in order of preference. This is the most recent episode on this list. And I love this episode. It is 187, a decade plus as an artist manager with Nick Mischko of Tanninate Management. And let me tell ya, a decade plus, you would never know it based on his attitude, because he is so down to earth, and he will tell you about all the incredible things he's done, and he's incredibly knowledgeable, so you know he's been around the block.

[00:33:57] James: Multiple times in those 10 years, [00:34:00] but he still has the passion for music. That is why he's working like 12, 16 hour days. He just loves music and he loves being in the industry and he is dedicated to his artists and hearing the passion that he speaks with. You would think this is his first day in the music business because he is just so enamored with what he does, and I think that's fantastic.

[00:34:20] James: It's so refreshing because a lot of times in the music industry, you see somebody who knows everything, but they hate their life. They hate their job, or you see somebody who loves what they're doing, but they're absolutely clueless and Mishko is Absolutely the best of both worlds. He loves what he's doing and he actually knows what he's talking about. So that one is number 187. You can find it at bandhive. rocks slash 187. Highly recommend that because honestly. Mischko is just such a pleasant guy to talk to we had like an hour and a half long chat before the podcast just to meet, and then we're like, yeah, let's, let's get you on the show, because this was such a good conversation, so, highly recommend that one, check [00:35:00] out Ten and Eight Management, he's also on TikTok, at Ten and Eight Management, fantastic guy, so knowledgeable, and, if Nerves ever hires a manager, if it's not Mischko, I want somebody like Mischko, to be, Thank Running things behind the scene for us because that's just the the combination of knowledge and attitude That is what every band needs.

[00:35:20] Matt: Absolutely. charismatic and knowledgeable. You know, it's a pretty… Rare combination in general, so it's, either have been in the music industry so long enough that it's sucked a lot of your soul out and you're an empty shell of a person, or you have learned and that's made you a better person and you've grown and you can then adapt, overcome, and take your business to whole new heights.

[00:35:44] Matt: pretty great content throughout all 10 of those episodes, to be honest, there's just so many people out there with a treasure trove of knowledge and that are willing to share that are eager to share, we just were so appreciative and humbled by everybody's willingness to come onto the show and to share their knowledge, to [00:36:00] share their experiences, to, you know, be vulnerable and to be transparent and, we could not have done this podcast without, every one of our amazing guests.

[00:36:10] Matt: we only did 10, so we didn't get to mention everybody. But there's, you know, lots of other. phenomenal voices, phenomenal minds, phenomenal musicians and, and people with real drive for you know, doing what they're passionate about. And we've been lucky to have them.

[00:36:23] Matt: So, quick shout out to everybody that's been on this podcast. Just wanted to say thank you so much for helping us talk about music.

[00:36:31] James: Yeah, it's so incredibly important And it's really like sitting down and doing this podcast every week. I'm not a huge fan of the solo episodes I'll admit but Matt when you and I get to chat or Aaron and I get to chat or any of our guests come on the show and I get to pick their brains I live for that.

[00:36:49] James: Getting to do that every single week for the last four years has been so pleasant it's like one of my favorite things to do, because it's just us nerding out about a topic that interests us, and I never [00:37:00] want to lose that, want to be able to have conversations like this for the rest of my life, because it's so exciting, and on that note, if you're listening to this, And there's somebody you think should be on the podcast.

[00:37:11] James: And maybe that somebody is you. Like, that's totally fine. Shoot me an email. james at bandhive. rocks Let me know who you think should be on the show and why. We do keep things business focused, so some kind of business angle should be in there. But if there's a band that you saw do something really cool, Let me know if your band did something that you think is really cool.

[00:37:32] James: Give me a shout I want to talk to you about this stuff. So again, that's james at bandhive. rocks And matt actually one other thing you mentioned, uh when we were talking about steven That we have the advantage that we can see each other when we're recording we do post every single episode to youtube as well So if you're in spotify or apple or whatever other podcast app go look up bandhive on youtube and I believe every episode since about number 70 is on [00:38:00] there as a video episode.

[00:38:01] James: The earlier episodes are there too, but it's just like a little waveform thing. But sometime around number 70, we started recording video. So that's a little over two years ago. Everything since then, And you can also find clips at bandhive. rocks on both TikTok and Instagram.

[00:38:17] James: Our username is at bandhive. rocks. Now, wrapping up this show, I just want to highlight a few big things that happen in the music industry. Not necessarily things that uh, I care about, but things that are good to know. And the first yeah, exactly. The first thing is that Taylor Swift decided to re record all of her early albums because she wants to own the master recordings. And a lot of those re releases are doing better than the original releases because she's more famous now than she was back then. That is a power move. Good on Taylor Swift for that. The next thing is, just a couple months ago, Spotify had their first rate increase ever. From 10 to 11. It's not enough. Now Matt, we actually [00:39:00] just did an episode about Spotify royalties, Myth vs. Reality. That was number 195, so that was five weeks ago. actually came out the week we're recording this, come to think of it.

[00:39:09] James: It came out three days ago, as of the time of recording. Please, listen to that episode if you want to understand how Spotify actually works. And we recorded this right before the price change. And one of the things I was saying in that episode was Spotify needs to increase their pricing so they can pay more to rights holders. And I was talking about like 20 a month, 30 a month. They increased it 1 a month. That's going to be a drop in the bucket. It's not going to ultimately have a major effect on artist royalties. But it is good to see that they are increasing pricing even if just a little bit. If we can put the pressure on them, hopefully they'll make it at least like 15.

[00:39:45] James: Because 50 cents a day for pretty much all the music in the world, that is nothing. That is so incredibly cheap. I hope that people start saying to Spotify, hey, I would pay more for this as long as it goes to the artists, songwriters, or if there's a label [00:40:00] involved, labels. Because that's what needs to happen.

[00:40:02] James: Spotify needs to know that people are willing to pay more to support the rights holders that they care about. Legally, they are obligated to pay roughly 70% of revenue to the rights holders, which means that they can't just double the royalty payouts.

[00:40:15] James: That would be 140% of revenue. That's not how that works. That's not good business. If they double their revenue, then that will double the amount of money going to rights holders. So that is the solution, is double the revenue. Maybe their per stream payout on average goes up, maybe it goes down. But more revenue is always going to be good for the rights holders, because that is how it's structured.

[00:40:35] James: The next thing is, the music industry had a massive comeback after the pandemic. And I get that we're still kind of on the tail end of the pandemic. There's a spike coming up right now in August of 2023, so who knows how it'll be in September. There's a massive comeback in live entertainment. And to be honest, crews are incredibly short staffed.

[00:40:55] James: I'm seeing more posts. In the Facebook groups I'm in than ever looking [00:41:00] for merch managers, backline techs, front of house engineers, lighting designers or lighting techs, tour managers, local crew, all of that. People in the industry are desperate for workers. So if you've ever wanted to tour working for another artist, now is the time to put yourself out there, get some experience and say, Hey, if somebody needs me.

[00:41:22] James: This is what I can do I almost did it like a month and a half long tour. But it ended up, they would have needed me to fly out like the next day. So unfortunately that didn't work out, but the people. Who are good at what they do, the demand is there. So learn what you are good at. Focus on those skills because a lot of it is going to be stuff that is the same for your band and learn how to do that for somebody else that is going to be so valuable to you and the industry in the long run.

[00:41:49] James: And the best thing is when you're doing work like this, you can always plan your band's own tours around these other tours that you're doing. So you don't have to come back and work like Starbucks or a restaurant or something between tours. You [00:42:00] can just be constantly touring, whether it's with your own band or with a band that you are working for.

[00:42:04] James: And that pays the bills. So you can then go on tour when you're not touring with somebody else.

[00:42:10] Matt: also gives you a nice window into different stages of the music industry, different genres in the music industry, different… Ways that different states operate, different ways that different places do taxes, what merch rates are, you proper loading and unloading procedures are, you know, it, helps you learn the, the, vast dynamic and the differences in the music industry because it is, I mean, it's the Wild West.

[00:42:33] Matt: there's no one set thing Every one of these bands, while it is the industry, everybody runs their business differently. And some do it better than others. You know, I've met DIY artists who track every penny. I've met multi platinum artists who don't understand how their business works.

[00:42:48] Matt: there's no one path to everything. there's times when you have to submit to what the industry needs and you have to adapt and overcome and say, this is the path of least resistance. So that's what I have to do. I [00:43:00] believe it's, Bette Midler who said, when they asked her what she attributed her success to.

[00:43:06] Matt: to paraphrase, she said that, I don't believe in roadblocks. the path forward is blocked, then you simply find another way. it's just the type of determination that it takes, you know, and, sometimes it's easy to be on the straight and narrow, sometimes it's easy to, Identify and isolate whatever your goals are, and sometimes it's hard.

[00:43:22] Matt: that's why we have the added benefit of multiple people in our bands, and, why we have managers, and why we have booking agents, and why we can say, hey, you know what? Maybe I shouldn't be focusing on trying to go out and tour, because I don't really know enough about how the industry works.

[00:43:37] Matt: Maybe I should go out and try and be a roadie. For a tour or try to be some stagehand or crew or merch or press or whatever You know and determine what it is that You are really really good at you know, what makes you unique? And when you add what is uniquely your own, and you can get a good Lens into what things you know how things actually operate.

[00:43:58] Matt: I Remember the first time I [00:44:00] did that and it was Eye opening, you know, I remember the first time going out on Warped Tour and being like, oh, yeah We came out with 50 t shirts and we said oh, well, maybe you know, there's there's 45 dates So if we can sell one t shirt a day, then be an extra like 600 in, you know, in gas, that'll be huge.

[00:44:14] Matt: And then it was like day one, we sold them all. And it was just, we were so underprepared for what was about to happen, it was instant how quickly we had to then find a larger community of people who could help facilitate what we needed.

[00:44:27] Matt: 'cause it was like, oh yeah, and we just ordered 50, now we need a hundred and we need them shipped across the country. You know, and some of the smaller printers couldn't do that. And, you know, some other people could. And that's when we learned it was like, oh, now we gotta We've got to order this five days ahead of time and actually go to the store and pick it up and, you know, and it was just, there were so many things by just going and actually being a part of the industry and kind of like submitting yourself.

[00:44:49] Matt: be like water, you know, you can't, control water. Water will flow where it's supposed to flow. And the best way to control the water is to submit to the properties of water. And the same thing goes with the music industry. You, you cannot [00:45:00] get anywhere in the music industry without having a glimpse in there, and you know, a lot of that starts by destroying your own presuppositions of what you think the music industry should be.

[00:45:08] Matt: Or, whatever idea you created in your mind when you were singing in the shower when you were seven saying, Hey, I'm going to be a rock star for all of my life. And then when you get out there and realize, it's like, no, it's totally different than you thought. And that humility is often sombering, And it's one of those things that when you get out there and you see these things, then you grow as a person, you know, there's things you're going to hate, and there's things you're going to love, I'll always remember when a producer told me, well, there's two highs in the music world.

[00:45:34] Matt: It's playing shows and recording albums. And everything else is work. And it's hard work and I'll never forget that because that's largely how I've felt, my idea was Traveling around with my friends having fun meeting fans, you know developing good quality relationships making some money along the way which was great, when it was great, and then when it was hard, it was really hard because I didn't have this full view of everything.

[00:45:58] Matt: and you never can have a full view of [00:46:00] everything, you know, Taylor Swift literally just re recorded her albums because they were all like bought by like George Soros without her ability to even purchase the rights to her own music back. So, oh, is that who it was? So I mean,

[00:46:11] James: Scooter Braun.

[00:46:12] Matt: yeah, well, Taylor Swift is a big of individuality in music which is good.

[00:46:18] Matt: she's kind of like the, being one of the biggest artists in the world. She is kind of the voice of the little guy, which is great. would encourage everybody to go listen to a bunch of pop music because if you listen to the lyrical content, a lot of really dark themes in there. There's a lot of, themes of loneliness and misunderstanding and things not being what you thought. all of the biggest artists do this. You know, you have, when you go into the industry, you have to guard your heart.

[00:46:39] Matt: You have to guard your soul. You have to guard your mind. you have to protect your body because you know, it's the Wild West. It'll, it'll eat away at all those things. So. go listen to some pop music, go listen to some depressing lyrics, go sit down and write some beautiful music of your own, surround yourself with people that you care about, build a network of people who are willing to work for you, [00:47:00] work with you, who are passionate about your project, and work hard, cause you never know when one day you'll wake up and it's four years later and you're recording episode 200 of a podcast.

[00:47:11] Matt: Thanks so much everybody for listening for all these years. We love and appreciate you. We appreciate you being part of our family. We appreciate you allowing us to get on Weekly and nerd out about awesome music and dumb puns. We couldn't have done it without you.

[00:47:25] James: Absolutely. And just to add to that, Thank you to everyone who's been a part of this show. If you've been a guest, if you've been a co host. So, shout out to Aaron. Shout out to my buddy, David Ryan Olson, who's been a guest co host two or three times. And just for all the people who, Not only listen, but also participate in the Bandhive community, who inspire episodes by asking questions, who send us words of encouragement saying they really liked an episode.

[00:47:51] James: whether you're that person or you're a silent listener, thank you so much. like Matt said, we could not have done this without all of you, and we appreciate you more than you know. [00:48:00] And, it's always nice to put a face to the name. So if you are a silent listener, please feel free to reach out and, you know, just say hey.

[00:48:06] James: Because we'd love to know who's listening and what you would like to learn about.