Welcome to the first episode of the band Hive Podcast. You're listening to the band High podcast Number one online resource for D. I Y bands to learn about the music business and touring. If you want to turn your band into a lean, mean touring machine, you're in the right place. Now let's get this show on the road. I'm James. I'm one of your co host and I'm here with Erin, your other co host from the band Suburban Samurai. How's it going? Good. How's it going today? Yeah, I'm having a great day, and I'm stoked to get this project off the ground.

I'm looking forward to it. It's super awesome. We have, um, interesting topic today, which is probably a bit heavy for some people. But other people might really enjoy it, which is the reality of professional touring versus vacation. Because a lot of D. I y bands who haven't done professional touring might kind of think of touring is being this big party or big vacation. And unfortunately, that's typically not the reality, which it would be nice if it was, but it is work, and so we want to talk about that and kind of set expectations but also help you get through some of the hurdles and challenges that D i y tours are somewhat prone.

Thio and, uh, that way give you the expectation of what to expect on your first D I Y tour or even your 10th d I Y tour. And so, Erin, you have a bit of experience with both. And so do I. Not quite as much experience on D i y touring, to be honest, but getting things going and looking at it from both sides of the pictures before we get started. Is there any one thing that you think stood out as the biggest difference between your professional tours and your d i y towards the suburban Samurai?

So the if if I had to pick one thing, that was sort of like a difference between the two. Um, uh, I'd say and it sounds like we might kind of get into this in more detail later, or maybe, perhaps on a future episode, but, um, sort of in a very, very brief nut, you know, kind of SparkNotes version. Um uh, my situation or, you know, order of operations. It was sort of unique in that I knew what I wanted to do and what world I wanted to be a part of.

And so I just started sort of involving myself in that world on de then, sort of where, you know, the funny version of Tim does came in. Um, I was a part of, um you know, uh, like a larger festival to her. Um, before I started, uh, kind of ramping up activity with my own band on Guy was a part of a couple of other, you know, I've done some other things before. I kind of backed off and sort of assessed where I was with my musical group.

And you know what? I could take from the larger tours and apply to my own and, you know, and kind of s So I did a bunch of stuff before. I kind of rolled it all back and started during with my own band. I'd say the one difference if I had to pick one. Um, can I pick a funny one and then Ah, riel one. What you eat is prince. Probably one or what's available? I'd say, I think in my situation, uh, maybe not so much because I'm lucky and I have a good group of guys in my band with me.

But, you know, nutshell Overall, I'd imagine one sort of overarching difference. Uh, that people, you know, maybe, um, you know, maybe finding what their experience would be, uh, like the intent of the people to the left and to the right of them, Sort of the overall mind set on dso out of, you know, just kind of why people air their which sort of ties directly into sort of your, uh, lead into the novel that I just blacked out my mouth. So you're kind of thinking of the difference between people who maybe there's a band and one of the members wants to do.

Music is a career, and the other one just wants to have a good time and hang out and drink beer. And somebody else wants to playing music as a hobby because they love playing music. But they also have a really study, full time job at home. And they're happy with that. Something like that. I think so. I want to be very clear. And in stating, I don't think there's anything wrong and I don't think either one of us would say there's anything wrong with any of those like things outlooks or you know how somebody's coming in tow, like playing in a band or door, managing a bit or whatever.

But it's it's, you know, when and where. They're like misalignments that sort of aren't clearly communicated. Or, you know, if it's if somebody's, you know, reason for being somewhere isn't sort of like an open, you know, you don't have to talk about it all the time, then you probably, you know, bore yourself out of your guard. But, you know, if you're just not honest about those things, um, it could get a little hairy. And I think, um, maybe part of that is a lot of people don't recognize that that's something that should be discussed.

I've had the great fortune of spending a lot of time with people who take what they do very seriously because it's, you know, it could be a range of either That's their passion, and that's what they want to do. And it's a simple is that That's kind of you know, where I was for a long time, Um, in terms of, like, production work, and then it runs the gamut. You know, there are people who is like, Well, you know, don't mess with this. This is how I'm thanks for my kid's college or like, this is how I pay my rent and buy my groceries.

You know what I mean? Like, um, it's so it's it's, you know, and these were people our age, maybe a little younger, um, all the way through retirement age. You know, people who are like there are lifers out there and you know, it's you just you don't mess with, like that's their job, is what it comes down to is like That's their job. And, you know, it's hard work and they take what they do. Seriously, Um, and so I was very fortunate in having that mindset is sort of like what I had modeled my sort of like fabric of being after Andi.

I still dio but on DSo like after, you know, I had spent a good amount of time, um, kind of operating and the that, you know, pro world. It makes me sound like elitist or something, but, you know, it sort of was. You know arena touring and on my sort of backed off. And I found myself either with a time or with the wherewithal, whatever to start working a lot more with my own band and kind of kickstart that and, um, you know, kind of D i y it.

And, um, you know, it just means I was told I forget who it was, but somebody had told me, uh, d I y isn't so much a do it yourself is like, decided yourself because you obviously Noah's well as I do, we have, You know, just as many resource is is, uh, anybody else anywhere, you know, with the internet and all that. But there are a lot of people. Yeah, and so and again, I feel like it's, like, totally monologue ing. I don't mean to, but it's so there are those people who is like, This is what I do.

This is my work. Um, I enjoy it. Yeah, hopefully I do. But it's my work. You have those people, and then you have the people, Uh, you still screw ups in that world and, you know, but they get sent home fairly quickly. Um, but there's less uh, of a single overarching understanding in the world of D I y touring. That's been my experience because so many people are coming out of so many directions of so many, all their backgrounds or different in terms of, like, experience or where they're from or what they're doing if if they're an audio guy.

But there you kind of like dying it or or a band member or somebody who's like I wanted to manage. But, like, how do I you know, like, am I going to manage? Er, why Band? How does that work? And I think you could probably speak to that a bunch. And but so a lot of those people, because there are so many more variables, is a part of that. Um, there are people with varying. I don't know what to call that, but I think you get the picture.

Um uh, motives, I guess. You know motives. Yeah, I think motives is a great word for that. Or the mental picture that I was building kind of was people with just varying life stories like, You know, you never know who what their motivation might be to be out there, but In the end, you're all working for one common goal, which is to put on a really good show. There's a different way of looking at the music industry, I think, than anything else, like whether the music industry, if you're touring the one and only goal, is to put on a show like Okay, you know, you have to get to the next show, too.

But it's all about putting on a show, whereas if you look at what anything else, like a store or, um, insurance company, like they have so many minor goals with so many different customers, and each customer has their own individual product, essentially, like no one who goes toe Walmart is gonna walk out with the exact same shopping cart. Is somebody else at the end of their shopping trip? Like, I guess you could argue. Maybe somebody walks in and buys one item like that. But if you have like 20 different items, the odds of those 20 items being the same that somebody else is buying that at that same store, that's just astronomically.

The odds are against it, but with a show. The product is the show, and you have hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of people, all there for that one same product. And there many, many, many people working on creating that product, which I guess we should call a service, not a product. Yeah, there are so many people creating that service together. The artist is just the tip of the iceberg. And they're the person that the people are there to see. Yeah, the execute her. Maybe exactly.

But not even the only one. You know, you got the lighting guy or video guy or, you know, now I'm thinking of just like the artist swing and Giant X E guitars called access to in some circles. So they're Ugo, but it's just a different model. You know, all these people are here for this one thing, whereas insurance companies so many different plans or you go to the store so many different items. It's like you're going to a show for this one specific thing. And I suppose you could say that.

Okay, movie theaters are kind of the same, but then again, they're they're multiplexes. They have, like, 10, 15 different movies. Um, I think probably the closest would be, um, Broadway shows I'd buy that because that's kind of what they're doing. But they're also doing it in the same location every single night for however long the run is. Whereas the tours, it's like, Okay, there's one show in your state and people drive from 345 hours around. We've got to replicate this close to the same things we can under maybe like, very different conditions. Definitely.

And that's outside tomorrow. And we were inside today. Or, you know, there's just so much that goes into it that people don't realize. I don't know if I am happy that you specifically you, and it's like, totally joking Walmart model because, you know, fight the man, whatever. But it's But like I am like seriously, though, I'm happy you brought up business model, you know, like like you know, walmart or an insurance company. Or I'm a fan of, like, sort of trying to, you know, tether together the idea of what it is to be in a band to the idea of what it is to source and purchase office space and that are cooking space and turn that into like a cupcake business or like a deli you know, um, in that Because, like another good point, Kind of stepping off from what you're saying, and I don't Maybe you were getting to This was, um you know, it's the difference.

Sometimes it's the difference between needing toe Look ahead vs. Oh, that was fun, you know, And then and it's And I don't think that's just like inside music outside music. It's like, maybe that's, ah, a discussion. Whoever you are, who is listening to this right now? Hopefully, uh, need to have with your own group. You know, it's, you know, an expectation that would be worth exploring. Um, do you wanna invest, invest in yourself and kind of, you know, like in a cyclical way, like I've got something that I did yesterday or something I'm doing today?

I have something that I'm planning on doing next month, and I'm just thinking about the thing that's gonna happen six months from now or, you know, versus the like one and done like model. And maybe that That's sort of what you were saying. It just in terms of, like, the ways that you know, um, I want to say there was big business, but like in any business, You know, the way that those people have to think, Um, it's interesting to sort of recognize, like where you see that in entertainment and where you don't And maybe most excitingly like where you see that, like like that gear just starting to turn.

And like that young band, that's like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna do this because that will let me do this in a more efficient way. Or maybe I should You think of it like it's great. We just got a van. But what are we doing with it? Yeah, and you know, that's why why we're here like we're trying to help D I y artists by saying, Hey, you know, this is how you can push forward your career. And so that's one of the reasons I asked Aaron to be co host of this podcast because Aaron has so much experience from both sides, both on the professional like Arena Tour level as well as his own d I band, and I'm sure there are other people out there, but Erin has taken suburban samurai so seriously.

I know in the past, you told me about like the spreadsheets you have. And I'm just impressed by all the day that you're tracking from your shows, which is something that probably like 1% of D i Y bands dio I would assume it's a very, very small percentage of D i Y bands and that percentage of those who do do that are the ones who are most likely to succeed. Another example, I would say, Shout out to Pickwick Commons. They are really successful. D I y touring band.

Well, you did like a like a like a two or three part, Um, like, sort of like Siris on it. Was those guys right? Yeah, exactly. They co manage the band. If you want to go check out that video series, it'll be in the show notes for this episode, but they're very successful about it because of the way they go about it. And one of the things that I thought was most interesting is they don't do any tour over two weeks long. They always just do two weeks and they'll say, Okay, you know, we're going to the North for two weeks.

We're going to the east for two weeks, and they kind of build that around there because realistically, for them there in Indiana, which is the Midwest, they can go two weeks to the east and they have the whole Eastern Seaboard. They can go two weeks to the South, and they have, like Texas, Florida, all that kind of stuff. Two weeks to the West and there's some really long drives. But they get to California and back in two weeks and play a show almost every night or like the North, if they've got their past go to Canada.

When they came through Vermont here, they had just come from Montreal. So that's awesome. They're definitely playing shows up there. I don't I think they had two or three shows in Canada on that run. That's a great example of a band whose harnessing statistics and marketing techniques they're using, like Facebook advertising and retargeting, that kind of stuff. But that's totally rabbit hole because we're talking about something else here today, which is just what to expect on D I Y tour and why the rock star life. Even if the biggest level is probably not the rock star life that you expect or C portrayed in movies, I guess a good example here would be the movie almost famous.

Have you seen that? Aaron? I'm about to get this wrong, but I have this picture in my head of like Chris Farley, and it's set in like it's like 100 years ago. Or like they were. It doesn't sound like that's It s so awful with names of actors, I e. That she was in it. She was like a big sister. And the mom was Frances McDormand. Yeah, it's about like a seventies touring band. How their rise to fame came about, kind of. Was it based on somebody's like actual story?

Or was it sort of, you know, Cameron Crowe? He directed it, and it was like semi auto biographical. That's cool. It was a great movie, and maybe in the seventies, that's what touring was like. But you don't seriously see artists standing on the roof of a house streaming. I am a golden god before they jump into a pool off the roof of the house. Like that's not something that happens anymore. It's, you know, 2019 or they could, but I'm just going to hate them so much when yeah, I see that video on their instagram riel life sometimes imitates art, but I think are typically does not imitate riel life, at least when it comes to portraying music tours and rock stars.

And again, no offense to Cameron Crowe. Maybe back in the seventies. That's how it waas. But in 2019, that's just not how Tory goes like I'm horrible with Handlers and Rabbit Hole. You need to keep me on a leash, James. But, um, just a quick shoutout Thio. I think there's a There's a movie with Patrick Stewart in it. Have you seen this where it's speaking of, like, again bad with names? Oh, Star Trek and he's Professor X, and it's, I think it's called Green Room. Um, I would suggest, if you want to get really scared about what you're about to do.

If you just booked your band's first d I Y tour on DYA, wanna like, have the whatever scared out of you go watch that? I think it's on who Lou watched it a few times, and I kind of look at it and laugh because it's so ridiculous, but like I'm sure it could totally based. It's like like die wires who, like Siphon gas from People's Park cars at Walmart to get to the next gig. But then they, like, you know, get this show and some like, middle of nowhere.

And it's a bunch of, like, really bad people that you don't wanna play like, um, we're all equal, you know, go everybody together. It kind of music towards if you sort of get my where I'm going with that. But I just I always think that's funny to like, You know, that would definitely be on my watch list. I have not seen that, but it sounds hilarious. It's terrifying. It's a great movie, but it's terrifying. E would not be shocked at all if there's some D I Y bands out there who do siphon gas from other people's cars and get upto all kinds of antics.

I mean, years ago there was was it somebody in co heat in Kambia got arrested in the middle of their tour for doing some sketchy stuff. I think it was the bass player. I don't want to call them out, but the bass player, yeah, if I'm thinking of the thing you were, and I think it was close to us. It was like in, uh, it was Mansfield Theater. Yeah, down there. It was just like the like. Yeah, Yeah. I hope the bass player is okay. I don't know if he's even still in the band anymore.

Yeah, Shout out to not living the rock star lifestyle because when you do live the actual rock star lifestyle that people picture usually get arrested. So don't Don't be one of those dance, but yeah, So speaking of that, when you transitioned to D I y touring and here's the thing, guys, Aaron and I both actually did our first tours as big tours where we were working for someone else rather than touring with a band. We were playing it. So we kind of have the reverse experience of many, many people out there, and probably for you.

The experience was you toured with your own band. And then maybe you got work working for a bigger artist or your band got bigger and you started playing large clubs like 500,000 cap rooms. We both, for some very coincidental reason, have the opposite experience. But so, Erin, if you have to take your experience from professional touring at a major level, working for a big artist and then coming back to D I y touring with your own band. What do you think is the one biggest thing that could be improved in D I Y touring to make things more comfortable or pleasant or better in general for the artist and the promoter and the fans just all around?

Is there something that you think could be improved to make things better? Boy, Yeah, Big question. I think it's sort of we need to kind of identify a few of those metrics like, you know, in no particular order. First we have What do you think? D I y is, um, they're the people who, um, you know, uh, are interesting in that they think if you go a step above and beyond spray painting your own T shirts, you're a sellout. And then you have the people who I run a 750 person club.

But I run a 700 you know, I'm doing it. It's you know, it's my business. I've taken the time to grow it or or I'm in a band and I play 750 cap rooms, but it's we're still doing, you know, uh, you know, maybe that person has built a team around themselves, but they're not getting their Netflix special, you know what I mean? Like so it's it's what? So, um, if I were to answer what you know, somebody who, um, has found a level of success where, um, you know, I'd go so far as to say in certain key areas, they have teams around the people who are on the teams around the artist.

If I could choose anything, what I could take from that world and sort of apply to and D I Y I'm just going to say If you do it yourself, it's d I Y. No matter how successful it ISS on guy would include businesses or bands or venue, whatever. Who you know. If they have built a team around them, that's great. You're still doing it. It's D I y. I'm not going to cut you off for having screen printed T shirts. I would totally agree with that.

And I think there is kind of, ah, bad mentality you mentioned. If you're not printing your own, uh, it's totally like like somehow the people who have had, I'm sure before I was born in 90 been excluded from a cool kids club. It's sort of, I don't know, and I've definitely had found myself in a few areas where I'm like this sure feels like a cool kids club, like, you know, like not good or bad, just like totally an observation. Andi, I think it's, you know, for some, maybe it Z. Maybe that's a misconception.

Maybe it's just people taking a lot of pride in their small local scene, which I think is important. Um, but it's a new, interesting observation for sure people do take it. There's some people who really take it seriously and goes so far as to treat certain people different than other people and that I guess that's sort of what I'm kind of getting at. So maybe it's if I could take one thing from pro and kind of, you know, quo air quotes. But really, um, you know, working for an artist much more successful than I will ever be.

Um uh, hopefully but on and apply it to the world that I have been lucky enough to be part of the last couple of years, you know, like small clubs. You know, that's sort of a thing. You know, I'll play anywhere. I'm not too special for something that kind of a tour. Um, it's just being cognizant and aware that the people around you have different might have a different approach priorities than you, uh, respecting that on Ben. Kind of, You know, I was told a long time ago it's just important to recognize, like, where you could be useful or where you should be in the music business as it is to recognize maybe where you shouldn't be, Um, because in a way, you know not being somewhere not going somewhere, um can sometimes be Justus helpful or productive or a positive thing as forcing yourself into something, or maybe more so if you're forcing yourself into something, so just being cool, man, yeah, and I think on that note that not so much a physical location or a physical rank in the entertainment industry.

But just from a mindset of you, some D i y artists get so stuck up and they think they're like the best thing ever, and that attitude is just not gonna help. You gotta be proud of what you do, but you gotta, like, you know, keep it in perspective. Something might be. And it's something I've had to learn, you know, for sure. Like I'm not above and beyond that. Like I still go to the grocery store every other week or you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, nobody is, you know, would be proud with what you do, but keep that a positive thing.

Not something that you use against other people. I would agree. And I mean, I've seen bands, particularly a band who, uh, no disrespect to. I think they were a really great band. Unfortunate. They're no longer banned, but I really enjoyed their music, and I booked them for a show. This is I was in college and our school venue was run by our professor, and she was great, and she just kind of oversaw things. And so the band had misconstrued. I was the production manager of the venue.

I said, sometimes you're lucky and you find a parking space out front. Yeah, I think I told you it's a long time ago, but anyway, they parked in a loading zone, which was not a parking space and got really upset about it and insisted on talking Thio, our professor who was the supervisor for the venue Long story short rather than calmly talking to said Professor, the band got very upset, Uh, this one member representing him and started yelling at her and, uh quickly realized that they lost the fight because she just said, Well, I was going to give you the $50 toe pay for this.

But now, no way like I'm sorry, you're the one who chose not parking a parking spot on. And what I'm trying to get at with this story is they had no idea who my professor was and out of respect for her, I'm not going to name her or her clients. But she worked with some very, very amazing talented artists and did some amazing things within the music industry. And I have no doubt that if she had been upset enough, she could have lifted a finger and made sure that this band would never have played any show over the d.

I Y. Level ever. She was very well connected, and you know that that band did get banned for her venue at the school. And but I ran into this band the next year because they were on Ah, Big Summer Festival tour that I was doing. And so I talked to them about it, and the guy said to me, Yeah, you know, A soon as I opened my mouth, I realized I lost that and I was like, Yeah, that you know, it was not a good move. And they recognize that though I keep saying as soon as it happened.

So sometimes you know you get more or you get better results if you ask for things nicely, and I can understand the frustration of getting a parking ticket and, you know, I totally accept responsibility that I should have said more clearly. You know, sometimes you get lucky and find a parking spot. Make sure you don't park in the loading zone. You know, I could have said that, but I also kind of jumped to your defense here, though, that if you're parking over like a white or yellow or blue, maybe square painted on the ground that has a bunch of exact other stripes in the middle of it.

Well, you know, not to keep that going, but Oh, yeah, I appreciate that. You probably did your due diligence in that situation. And, you know, the thing happened, I definitely changed the language I used when advancing shows. From then on, it was always you might find a parking spot, but make sure it's not a loading. So you know eso I definitely learned a lesson there, and I'm sure that band did, too. That band went on to be fairly successful before they broke up, and, uh, some of those members have gone on, and I think they played the last Warped Tour like the last full year tour as a as a different band.

But they were very successful, but there was also, like, I don't know, the full details. There's some scandal about it, too. So maybe they weren't quite done with their scandalous, uh, scandalous days. Um, it's a learning experience, and it's it sounds like that's I mean, I don't know how long they were on two or four before they, you know, uh, parked in a loading zone order. But like, you know, that could totally feed into, like, a mental like It's like, you know, they could have been exhausted and, like, maybe not have reacted that way if they were, if they had just woken up in their own beds that morning, you know, our, um, like the tour tour bubbles rial for sure.

Yeah, I think that's That's one thing that's important to be cognizant of is, you know, read the news. You know, like the world isn't a small as you think it, it's small, but it's not as like tiny bubbly is you. You think it is when you're in a van and I have to jump in there and say they were the local opener, so Oh, my God e mean, they drove from about an hour away. So it's not like they were just down the street or anything. But they were the local opener, and it was actually the headliner was also from that area, but more established and had done tours.

And there, unfortunately no longer banned either, which I was really bummed about. But they're also doing really cool things. Um, one of their guys has a record label and publicity company down in New York. Um, once again, you know, I would love to mention them because he's doing cool things. But if I mention them, then people will know who the other band was. So I'm not going to do that. I'm not gonna throw anyone under the bus, but, yeah, that band was really cool, and, uh, they almost got a parking ticket.

But they were only in the loading zone like their front tires. So the guy let him go on. We found out that that corner actually has a camera and somebody's watching with CCTV. And like, if they see Sunny Park there, they radio like the made her person on the street like give them a ticket. The government's watching. Yeah. And so even though the band is like, Oh, we're so sorry we could move. He said, Well, unfortunately, since I got called out, I have to write you a ticket.

Otherwise I get in trouble. So that was a real bummer and learning experience. Exactly. Yeah, and I guess I wouldn't say that The difference between professional touring and D I. Y touring like they're our egos at professional tours, but you're learning experiences for sure. You know, you could be a doctor and until you do something, you just Yeah, we haven't done it. We all learned from mistakes. Like, you know, I learned in that situation that, you know, I should be more clear with what I'm saying. You know, people, people hear what they wanna hear.

That band thought that I was giving them permission to park in a loading zone, which is not what I meant at all, but I could see how that would be easily misconstrued. Is that, um so Yeah, but I would agree with what you said on how to improve, uh, d I y touring. And I think that makes a lot of sense. And from my perspective, I would say just more bands, doing what Aaron is doing with suburban samurai and getting data points and collecting that and just working at it as much as possible and not expecting gigs to come to you or same thing for Pickwick Commons.

They're actively working on it all the time. They have a long term strategy, and I see a lot of D i Y bands who don't have a long term strategy, and I think that's something that really hurts bands because, you know, people say when you're making a business, the first thing you should do is create a mission statement, and that will help guide you. So I think for a band, maybe not a mission statement, But having a strategy off what we're going to dio and goals with results that you can achieve.

But that's totally going to be a whole nother episode. Yeah, we're just about at the 40 minute mark already, and we still have several bullet points to get through. So this first episode here, maybe. Ah, little over. We'll see. Um, but we'll try to keep it in concise, and we don't want the podcast to be something that you dread listening to. We want it to be something fun with, you know, side notes and stories and anecdotes and things like that. But we also want to make sure that d i y bands could learn something from this s o.

I'll try to not talk so much. I'm guilty as charged. Oh, well, we'll both be executed by the ax, man. Next time we play a show and yeah, there's actually guitars. I'm not gonna ramble because I just said I was gonna ramble one thing and let's e guess we should try to keep this short. But there's a lot of overlap between Pro Tours and D I Y tours. What do you think is one of the things that sticks out with things that are the same and obviously things that we take for granted?

Her? Like you get on stage and play music, you drive to the next city. Do you think there's anything that is surprising that there is an overlap? Dang it. I was going to start with that. Yeah, e mean, there's obviously, as you said, the there is a group of people who are artistic or like tech savvy and nature, who go from one building and then either make a lot of noise or support people who make a lot of noise. And then at some point, they're in a different building.

And they do that, too. And then at some point, they don't do that anymore. Yeah, eso there's that, um but, uh, something surprising. Ah, man, that's a tough Oh, no, that's a tough one. I'll be honest. I can't think of anything either. Well, it's the key is like the surprising part. Like I'm trying to think if I was, if I had been surprised like, Oh, this is here to maybe not so much surprising, but something that people might not expect. You know, not like you're like so maybe not surprising for the person on tour.

But for, like, somebody at home, if you were to tell them to kind of, ah, like a innocents bystander, you could say that, I think. I mean, if you're away from home, you're away from home and it's not a vacation. It's not a party. Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely segue into, you know, assuming that the conversations about the people who are on vacation when they're touring, because how great would that be? Um, but yeah, it's, you know, that's definitely that's a common thread. And it's maybe not surprising.

Like maybe that's probably not the right word as much as Oh, yeah, that again. You know that kind of a thing on, I think in my experience, that's, you know, I can partition myself and live out of a suitcase all the live long day. But it's when you start to consider your other priorities that, you know, maybe below what you're doing. or maybe much more important. But, you know, this is your job. And so you do have to kind of reconcile what it means to be a way.

And that's also on the people at home. Two on. And you know, another thing to be kind of wary of is it's probably also going through. Everybody else said, Who's Who's out there? Um, so I think that's, you know, not to like, totally serious if I the conversation. But I think it's very real and it's It's something that, you know, eyes worth exploring, you know, least for five minutes while you're sitting down before you take off is, uh, you know, had to prepare for that. I think that's very true.

Very applicable toe anyone on also a great segue to our next bullet point, which is the mental toll of touring. You know, I referenced the story earlier about the tour that actually didn't feel comfortable continuing with, and it wasn't anything that I didn't enjoy what I was doing, but it was that my heart wasn't fully in it and my head wasn't in it, and I was aware of this and I knew that somebody else would do a better job than I would. And so because of my mental state at that time.

And you know, e wasn't, you know, facing any mental health issues and anything. Thankfully, because that's one of the biggest things. One of the most difficult things to overcome is a mental health issue. But I just knew that on that particular tour, I was not as happy as I had been on other tours. And thankfully, when I talk to my supervisor about it, I just explain, You know, I know somebody else will do a better job than I can on this, and I think he really appreciated that.

I had the candor to talk to him about it and say, You know, I'm not doing a good job because the last thing anybody wants to do is go to somebody working for them and say, You're not doing a good job and I don't know if he already had an inkling of that by looking at my productivity while I was working, I would hazard a guess. No, because I was still being fairly competitive with other people who were out there. But I knew that I personally I had, ah, higher standard for myself, and I was not meeting that standard.

So due to that, because I knew I wasn't fully in that I didn't have my head in the game. I decided to leave the tour. Um, and that kind of goes to the mental toll thing. And obviously, you know, I would never say Just believe a tour that's totally responsible, like no one should do that. I actually I worked it out, and we figured out somebody else to come out and replace me. And, um, you know, I didn't just say I'm leaving. I said, You know, uh, I'll give you a long as you need to find somebody else because this was, like, two weeks into, uh, seven week tour, something that, uh, it was a major summer festival tour.

So, um, I didn't want to just bail on them and burn bridges because that's something else in the music business. You don't wanna burn bridges. You never know. You know, you might upset the wrong person, and then that's it. You'll word gets around very, very quickly in the music business, as most people in D. I Y bands have probably already learned. And if they haven't yet, they will. Yeah, it's no different. You start doing more, it's all the same. Yeah, yeah, the mental toll of touring It could be really, incredibly straining because not only are you working, you know, 12, 15, probably longer days.

Sometimes it's a lot of hours, but you're also living in a tin can, whether it's a van or a bus, you're living in a tin can. You're in close quarters with who knows how many other people. Well, I guess a bus holds 12 people in the van holds 12 to 15 people, so it's potentially about the same. You just did a much, much tighter space. If you have 12 people in the van, then if you have 12 people on the bus, I mean you could be as extroverts. I'm not, but you could be a Z extroverted as they come and like, you gotta have you time.

Yeah, at least like it's a very least like pull the curtain and pretend you're having you time. Even if you're in a bus with 12 other people, it's and that totally feeds back into like the mental health thing. You know, the physicality of what you might be doing that takes it all like whether you notice it or not like it's. You know, if you do it long enough, you're gonna notice, like a diminished capacity for hope to God. It's not like decision making are remembering what your name is.

But, you know, it could be if you let it go long enough. That does remind me one time we, um we were on an off day. We stopped at a Wal Mart. Here I am bringing up WalMart again. I'm really not a fan of WalMart myself, but sometimes it's the only option. This was, I want to say Nebraska, but I didn't know that at the time. And I just It was like eight in the morning and I got off of the bus and walked in and bought some snacks and whatever.

As I'm walking out, I saw one of the guys like pushing the carts is like, Hey, so what? State Early? And hey looked at me like I had two heads. I think you said Nebraska. And then I saw his reactions like, Yeah, I just woke up on that bus out there. He's like, kind of like Okay, but he was still looking at me like, Dude, you don't know where you are on. That's just kind of the mental state. Sometimes, like, I could have pulled out my phone and tracked, but it's just easier.

It probably said on the receipt, like I could probably have looked at the receipt and it would have had the address of the store on it or something. But I was just, like, eight in the morning and like, Dude, I don't know where I am. Like, if the bus had left me for whatever reason, I would have been so lost. Thankfully, I did have my phone in my pocket, but like I would not have known where to start. Like I think it's called The Bus driver is like, weird is that is like, See, I've had, like, sort of a fun experience with that before or or not that that was sounds particularly negative, but like discombobulated.

I mean, like, if I'm in a bus like I'm you know, you've got a certain like point. You've got to kind of learn to trust the people you work with to do the thing that they're doing to work with you. And so when I'm on a bus, um, I pay attention to, uh when the bus starts rolling so I could go to sleep, Um, when the bus stops rolling. So I know. Oh, my God. I'm late to go do whatever. I should have been up already, which, thankfully, had, like, that has happened, but or, you know, every little bit I'll check Google Maps toe, see if I got 10 more minutes sleep before I have to get up.

So I've never really paid close attention to this on a bus. But on a van tour with Sub Sam, the first time we drove, it was like a rough cut like back from Ohio to I guess it would have been like Pennsylvania or just, you know, kind of that kind of hugging the lakes, but kind of coming back east. Forgive my porridge like geography skills on the spot. But I was in the passenger seat. I think eso I was upfront, but I wasn't driving. And I was just kind of in my own head around my phone or, you know, snoozing or something.

And during the day and all of a sudden I saw Welcome to West Virginia, and I hadn't taken that route before. Never noticed that there's totally a little pocket of West Virginia that extends upward between Know what you're talking about. You're going into Harrisburg, right? Uh, Pennsylvania, that's to the east. It was coming from, like, Ohio or something like that. And we're going to Pittsburgh, and I just remember being like What? Yeah, what is this? And then, I mean, if the sign says I'm in West Virginia, I suppose I'm in West Virginia.

So I've had a little fun with that. Were like a few of those where it's like, Oh, wow, I have a similar experience where I moved across country earlier this year. I can't remember what was before West Virginia. It was probably Virginia, I guess, or something. But I thought we were just gonna go straight into Pennsylvania. But then all of a sudden, we were in West Virginia for literally, like, eight miles. Yeah, and this was coming to Harrisburg. So West Virginia must have two spots like that on the interstate.

But I kind of feel bad, like checking West Virginia off of my states. I've visited list just for about eight miles. But I'm probably not going to get another chance because I've hung up my touring shoes and that's something I don't do anymore. Did you stop it like a station? You know, Airbnb out staying at was in Harrisburg, so we were, like, 30 minutes from getting their such as like and we've been driving from natural sounds like a 10 hour drive. We're just We're not stopping like we're just gonna go.

So I have not walked on the ground And West Virginia. Unfortunately, I don't know. I don't authority Qualifier E. I was hoping you'd say yes because I'd say the same thing. Like, I don't know if that counts, but I've played the crap out of Virginia, but I'd have to hear a city name to, like, say, if I've done it, it's I'm sure I have, but I don't have a memory of Lodin in West Virginia somewhere. But I did use the bathroom best pro shops. They during that eight mile stretch.

So I'm sure I did a show. I can't remember it, but I know I use the restroom. Well, you know, it's funny, like West Virginia is one of those states like I can't name a single city either. And I think you know, there's probably gonna be a lister whose e I don't think West Virginia has a major city. I think they're one of those states. Like I have to say it kind of like Vermont, where everything goes on in, you know, Boston or Montreal or Albany area.

We're lucky here in Vermont, toe have a great venue called higher ground. That does have some decent bands come through like decently. I don't mean like they're decent. Musically, they're very talented. We have totally well, they've got that capacity toe like they've got their own space to spaces inside of the space. And then they've got the presents portion of that where they're able to do ah lot of different and cool stuff to clarify what I mean by decent. I mean, it's like decent size, like relatively well known or like they had Bush play the Lake Champlain, Uh, fair a few days ago, which I don't think that was a higher ground thing.

But like what? Do you get some fairly large artists through here? But I digress. I think West Virginia is probably one of those things where there's no, like, absolute major city, and they might get some bands through. It's something like that, what we have here. But they're not, you know, a major stop there like a tertiary market. I would totally semi but mostly uneducated. I would wonder if somebody from West Virginia would react in the same way that somebody in Vermont would react when somebody from California can't place them on a map or not to pick on.

But like somebody from you know, that's the big one on the left. Or like, you know, Texas or Florida. The easily recognizable shapes I have to say. I'm looking at Google Maps on my iPad right now, and I see City names here in Virginia. Sorry, West Virginia, and I don't recognize any of them because that's the Roanoke. Is that Virginia and West Virginia? Yeah, that's Virginia. So the thing is that interesting 81 looking at it is mostly in Virginia and then, just before it hits Pennsylvania, it's West Virginia for like, a small time, Um, and then it continues on into Pennsylvania.

But looking at the map, Lexington is Kentucky like I do not see a major city here in West Virginia, and it's like the same thing. If I zoom out and look at Vermont like Burlington is not on the map because it's not a major city, it only has 40,000 people Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, I guess that's one of those states. Another one. I've been to every single state around Kentucky, but I haven't been to Kentucky. I've been in Cincinnati and looked across the river and sea in Kentucky, which at that point, the river was very, very wide.

Because I remember I texted you. That was like a poster for the tour you were on at the time and had flooded. And I was like, Are you guys here like what's going on? And then you guys had rescheduled, but because that's where I was on didn't actually need that main stage. We could e. I totally forgot about that. That was they were like a few of those were like is a day before, ahead of the other one Small world. Oh God, it's well, I mean, if you feel like it's time I have a story of stories of tours, shows, drives gone wrong.

That kind of fits right into that. Yeah. Let's, uh, let's hit that bullet point first and then go on to you The physical toll. Oh, well, that'd be perfect, because this had a physical toll on me was, well, a mental. Uh, I would never have thought of that if you didn't bring that up. But that was so cool. Yeah, I remember. Uh, So it must have been Cincinnati, right? Was the shed over there after which was by the like, the little tiny water park? Yeah, I remember them saying we had Thio.

I think we were coming from Indiana, some maybe Evansville or something like that. And, uh, we were gonna end there two legs of the tour, and it was I think I think it was Evansville. And then I think it was Cincinnati or, you know, whatever that the city is, um, And then we're all gonna go home for a week and then fly back and start like to And, uh, but we ended up totally punching because yeah, I think I think the amphitheater was flooded. Um, I don't know if I never walked out back to look at it, but I think it was clearly, like, right by the river.

And I heard story like the like the house do just like, Oh, yeah, they were like snakes on the lawn like that had come up from the water. And, yeah, like, totally terrifying. And, um, but they're just like, that whole process of like, well, you know how we all thought we had a show tomorrow? No, I guess we're all going home tomorrow. Uh, like just that. It's amazing how, like, large, large, large seems like that can work together to, like, just do something that sitting here right now.

So it's totally bonkers and like, that's tip of the iceberg. Like, it's just you just gotta sit there, you know, re book travel or something. And that's nothing. And then come back and do it a week later. Play that show. Yeah. I mean, at that point, most everything was like set, and you're kind of, you know, executing what you had planned or advanced. I don't know if I would have thought of that, but now that you mentioned it, yeah, that's a memorable. That was an interesting one, because it was such a quick turnaround and then Yeah, well, I pulled that up on Google maps as well, and ironically, the venue is called Riverbend Music Center.

I didn't remember that, but it should have been called Underwater Music Center. I remember we stayed the airport hotel that we totally we must have funded and stayed out or moved. The dates are I don't remember how this went, but at some point, when way must have gone back there or maybe we I bet what it was was we booked travel out of that airport or something. So we ended up still staying at an airport, airport, hotel. Um, that, I think, was across in Kentucky or whatever it was that we were just talking about.

That's how that's how that ties in Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky International Airport. I can see it right here. Nah. And I still get emails from the hotel like, Hey, the worst. And it's not like an automated thing, too. It's like a hotel rep years because, like, how many rooms do you think you booked, like 30 or 40? It was like it's a big tour. Yeah, you know, somebody finds out who it is, and they are excited like, you know, appreciate that. Like, they could play a part in something which is really, really cool.

And I always sort of, like, smile when I get like, I've gotten it three or four times since then And this was, like, probably 2014 that the tour happened So a while ago. Yeah. Yeah, that venue is interesting. Thankfully, I did not see the snakes because I mean respect for snakes. They have a very defined purpose in nature. I don't like big snakes. I don't like seeing them. I would run away. Exactly. E do you remember The lawn was open so people could sit on the lawn. It was Astro turf.

This is the only venue I've ever seen where the lawn is Astro turf. I was on a summer festival tour. It was just baking in the sun and people would sit on it like Dude like, how are you not getting burned right now? Literally like the water was just coming up halfway through the seats of the amphitheater. It was just about the level of the stages, maybe like a foot into the stage. There's probably four or 5 ft of water filling up the pit in the 1st 2030 rows of seats.

I guess it was like you said a while ago, so I don't remember too well. But that was an interesting day. And the next day we had to go to Canada. So that was fun. Overnight border crossings where you have a show starting at, like, 11 and loading. Yeah. Do you want in the last years eso That's a mental toll thing todo going to Canada that I'm not trying to make Canada sound awful. I'm just saying, like crossing the border Where? Uh, in case you didn't know If you're on a tour bus and you're crossing the border, the border control agents make you wake up.

I'm sure you've been through that, but something that, like, poke your head out of the Yeah, the bunk. That's something that most people probably wouldn't imagine. Like Oh, yeah, tour bus you sleep through. It's like, No, you still go through immigration like even though it's all advance and your names on a list like they have to check the box. But I saw this person. I saw the passport. No one else is hiding on the bus I'd go so far as to say, like, that's just you gotta wake up and it Z would be better to be woken up, so, you know.

Okay, we're at the border. Things were happening rather than, like not be woken up and then wake up at 7. 30 in the morning when you should be an hour, north side of the border or something, like with a flat tire on a but like, you know, or not having been woken up when the border crossing isn't going well, for some reason, that is very true. And speaking of waking up on a bus when there is something going wrong, things is one of my favorite tour stories. Thankfully, everyone was okay.

Everything was fine. We got our bus back later the next day. So it wasn't major damage or anything. This was just the start of the tour. We did three shows, and then we, uh, had a day off. And this was that day off after the first three shows, and we were driving from Ventura, California, to somewhere near Phoenix, Arizona, and climbing the mountains at six 15, 6 30 in the morning, out of California and Arizona. All of a sudden I smelled smoke and I was like, That's not good. And I opened my curtain on the bunk and I see smoking like, Yep, that's not good.

So I walked up to the lounge and saw a few people sitting there. I'm like, What's going on? And then I just hear Oh, we're stopping and the bus like pulls over and our driver jumped out like I've never seen a move that fast before and ran to the back. And I heard doors and panels opening and stuff something. And I'm like, Okay, and then he comes back on the bus and just all chill says, All right, I just put out a fire. Oh, my God. And I'm like, just imagining like all the horrible stories I've seen in the news like bus is burning down.

Thankfully, I think we were okay in this situation because it was in the engine compartment, which was obviously like isolated. It wasn't like on the bus, it was in the back. But I'm still sure if he had tried to keep going or if he hadn't stopped like it would've probably spread. Yeah, exactly. And so that happened, which was not what I expected. But then, of course, we had to get on a different bus and we got split up on to all the other production Busses from this tour.

A few of them pulled over to help us out. So you were able to move on and kind of Yeah, And so I wasn't sure when we were going to see the bus again. So I just grabbed my suitcase and I had all my clothes under my mattress in the bunk. That was like my system was like, just everything is accessible there. So I grabbed my suitcase and just, like, dumped everything out of my bunk into my suitcase in my bag was like, Okay, I'm good. We could go, which wasn't necessary because we got the bus back later the next day, which was okay, but just in case, if we'd never seen that, doesn't get some fire.

So yeah, but I remember the funniest thing. This is where the mental toll comes in. Just things like that are so shocking because I had to wake up somebody else on the bus, so I led by saying like Hey, like, everything's OK Nothing's wrong anymore, But we have to switch Busses. Everything is fine. We had a fire. The fire is now out and literally the person had slept through the whole thing until I said fire And then the country's goes were on fire. And I'm like No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, We were Everything is OK now.

No need to panic like we're safe. And that's how you remember that person. I'm still friends with that person to this day, and we laugh about that moment. But it's like the whole lead up of like everything is OK. That was all, like, just zoned out. And then the first thing they heard was fired. I guess that's probably what, like simultaneous surprise and disappointment, they can't sleep longer. Sounds like Yes, you know, it was a day off and that tour was famous for its barbecues and parties.

The night before a day off, I was not one of those people. I was embedded like I think 1 30 or two. I got a good four hours of sleep. This person was up until bus call, which I think was like, four or 4. 30. Yeah, that person got, like, two hours of sleep, and I felt bad for waking them up. But I felt it was better than leaving them in a bunk on a tour bus that was about to get hooked up to a tow truck and driven back to California to get repaired and then driven to Arizona for shit like that.

Get up now or we'll see in four days. Yeah, exactly. Hope you can do your job with your phone. But obviously that was a very stressful event for all of us, because it's like, OK, well, like, when are we getting our bus back? What's going on? And thankfully, the bus company we were with had their like central location with all their extra Busses in Arizona in Phoenix. So they gave us a bus to use for the next day. Just like to have someone with air conditioning to hang out.

Is that where you picked up the but like, that's where the bus came from? Our bus that yeah, blew up. Yeah, it was based in Arizona, but they took it back to L. A. Because that was closer. Otherwise they would've had to tow it like another six hours or something, but yeah. So the next day we got back on Random Busses were supposed to have our bus, but it just didn't show up. So I just found the bus we've been with and asked. I was like, Hey, like our bus didn't show up.

Can we just hit your eyes? And he's like, Oh, yeah, sure. So, um and then we got there and there's a bus there waiting for us. So there's just some miscommunication, but it didn't have enough bunks for all of us. It had, like, a like a double bunk, which was bigger for, like, the rock star or whatever. That's the, uh, boy not remember the name because I've never have the privilege. Yeah, Condos e might be outing myself a idiot for not remembering that, but it's that sounds applicable.

But either way, instead of having three bunks stacked, there were only two. So you had a lot more head room, and it was really nice, but it wouldn't have fit. Everybody s. So we're like people who got it, huh? It was just It was one set was like that. So the others are All nine were all three. So, like two people locked out with those, Yeah, it would have fit 11 people instead of 12. It's like, Well, whoever would typically have the top bunk, I guess, would be the person who doesn't get the bunk and was like, Well, that's not my bunk.

So I'm cool. My book is still there, but then we got our bus back at the end of the night, which was a big relief, and we weren't sure it was gonna happen. And he literally got there, like, right before bus call and we're scrambling toe pull everything out because we stored it in that bus already to be ready to go because we weren't sure if he was going to show up in time. And so then he showed up like pulling everything out and shoving, and the other bus were like, That was close and, like, got on the bus and left.

That was an interesting day, but I'll avoid the side stories. But that actually does tie into the physical toll because we had toe scramble and shove everything into the other bus after we had just worked 12 hours and we're like, all rested and like our days over. We get toe chill now and then like, don't get everything off this bus and put it on the other bus and you have 10 minutes to do it. So that was something that happened. So that's a good segue to the physical toll of touring, which I think we've pretty much covered already.

You know, the just working really long days is probably the biggest thing. Kind of Yeah. And I mean, on top of if you're like a systems guy or like, you know, merch on the festival, Anybody on the festival, really anybody outside? But I mean, you could be, you know, the person who's, you know, white loving it the whole time and like, if you're doing your job, yeah, the hours are very long and, like you don't get to experience irregular sleep schedule. You kind of just have toe deal.

And I have to say I think for me most of the tours I did word that summer music isolated that three years. So it's nice because I could be in bed by 11 if I wanted to and get up at 6 37 and start my day at eight and then work till eight. You know, like that kind of tour was very conducive to having a somewhat human sleep schedule. But I kind of wanna ask, like when you were on the road, how many days in a row was the longest you went without having a day off?

Because that it just it's like compounding interest. I mean, a certain point, you kind of just turn into a machine. But machines also breakdown or need maintenance at some point, or would enjoy caffeine or something. Uh, boy, I think my longest waas we're outside every day. The festival run, and I think it was probably 13 or 14 days, which sort of took us all the way from wasn't Baltimore, but like the Baltimore you know, venue down the coast. Few days in Florida, back up the other side of Florida, through Louisiana.

I don't think we stopped in Municipal E but like Texas all the way, and we dumped out in San Diego. And then that was like, I guess 13 14 days versa for and I think for my arena gig wasn't pulling 13, 14 days straight. The artist is Yeah, I said it. Some limitations on that. Yeah, that artists like a very nice I was very lucky to get to experience a schedule like that. But towards the end of the time that I had spent in that camp s so far we were doing, uh, like, there were a few stadium shows speckled in Andi.

Obviously, that's, you know, the way that we had executed that was to have a little in day, the day before the show. And so, you know, the e Think the performers probably We're still sort of on a similar, you know, show show show officers to show or whatever schedule. But, you know, we it was much more active on on the part of the crew side. Yeah, you didn't get that day off. No, you know, we would pull, um, you know, anywhere between, you know, probably four in eight in a row or, you know, eight or nine or so, but but at the end of the day, that's not 14 or 15, you know, And that's, uh, very different.

You know, you have catering on that kind of a true which I guess you would on a festival, but it's it's just different Yeah, I kind of run the game, but I've done one offs and I've done 14 days in a row. Yeah, that's definitely tough, I have to say, Thankfully, the most I ever did was 12 in a row on a summer festival tour. It's something that I would not want to repeat again. And I feel bad for the people who the last time that tour went cross country, they had, like, 20 or 21 chosen row.

I could not even imagine doing that, and they did it. But that would not have been something that I would be looking forward to ever. Oh my God, that za lot. Yeah, that's extreme. I don't know why they couldn't fit just one off day and then I'll do like 10 and 10 or something. But it is what it is. So those are some stories of shows and tours and drives going wrong way definitely rambled on with those, but I think those are some fun stories. Hopefully, people wouldn't enjoying them and learn that some things you just can't control like things were going to go wrong on tour.

You have to be prepared for it. So here's our last bullet point, which is how to be mentally prepared for the strain of touring. It's a big topic, and I think there's a lot to cover personally, I would think, and this is just something small and it's not like being prepared for the whole tour. But just the night before, like when I go to bed, I look at, like our Pdf tour book or pick up the actual tour book. If there's one handy and say like, Okay, this is where we are tomorrow It's this venue, this city, okay?

And then I look at Google Maps and say like, Okay, so this is kind of how I think we're going to get there and this is where in the country it is and then kind of like think through my head like, Oh, do I know someone near here and that kind of stuff? Because then if I know someone will be like, Hey, are you coming out to the show? That's just is like a minor thing that helped keep me saying on a day to day basis, just the awareness of where I was gonna wake up or where I should be waking up if the bus doesn't catch on fire and that kind of stuff, Yeah, everybody's gotta have, like that thing and like whether it's like, more noticeable or not, or even if it's like a mental thing, you repeat to yourself or like a tradition before bed, like, you know, like you have whatever it is, you gotta have that thing.

Yeah, it's definitely not one size fits all. My little trick there might work for some people, but hopefully that thing, it's not drugs or alcohol. Hopefully, that's not what it is. Unfortunately, it is some people, but that's very true. And, yeah, I would say Be very cautious with that. Especially on a D I Y level like, Oh, yes, if you're all driving and you're all in a van like there's just no room for that, to be honest, like D I Y versus If you're on a bus, um, your yeah, well, that's making the assumption that you're bus tours put together properly, which it may not be, but like there could be an argument against it.

But I have to say, like if you're calling something a D I y tour like chances are, it's much less structure. There's less infrastructure. And, um, you know, a lot more places where, like, risk can kind of creep in. Um, you know, And there's just avoid the easy stuff to avoid, which includes, but is not limited to. You know, it's just, you know, and then some people have a much more difficult time with that than others. I'm I'm thankful that that that's never been a struggle of mine, but I know that there have been other people.

I've known other people well, who have struggled with that sort of thing. And it's, you know, it's always more to it than you know. Yeah, we're making it sound, but it's but all the reason we're toe like have that one positive thing that you can kind of go to That's that place or that activity. Like I'm a fan of. I've seen so many. You know, I'm a fan of not saying like I have a day off. It's because you would I with what I had done, it was more often than not like a non showed a Yeah, but I did have time and and so I would hunt for the closest movie theater and go see whatever's playing or, you know, because then you've got like, Oh, yeah, Erin's gonna cheap out and he's going to try to walk there if you can.

So, you know, there's a nice walk and, uh, you know, you put you out, you're out of your element for a little. Yeah, do some like a normal person stuff. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Although I have to say the one time I went to a movie while I was on tour, I, like, slept through the movie because I was so exhausted. E. It was ant man theory journal. One, like four years ago. Good movie. That was the part that I saw on tour. Really? Knoxville, Tennessee. Nice, Remember, because there was a lot of work to do before and after I went and saw the movie.

But I saw the movie, though. Yeah, I saw in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. The festival I was on had a a disclaimer. You haven't seen ant man. It's this good that we both remember exactly where, exactly? Oh, that was another day where we had a day off, and the bus had to go get inspected, but the hotel wasn't ready. So we had to figure out there's like no uber no left, no taxi. And we were dropped off in Gettysburg like National Park because other people on the tour we're doing like the service day, which apologies like for not doing a service day.

But I selfishly wanted to enjoy my one day off rather than planting trees. Um, so we hopped on like this little tourist shuttle, which does different loops like every hour. So we actually saw the whole tour twice, except, like the little part that goes in a different loop. It was really fun, and the people were nice and we filled up most of the bus and we were on that bus literally two hours to do like what would have been, like a 15 minute drive. But we just didn't want to sit in the park for an hour doing nothing like, let's get on the bus and see downtown and then come back to the park and then finally get to the hotel, um, which was still not open.

So are our rooms weren't ready. So there's like a little shopping mall and were like walking through there with backpacks and suitcases because our bus is gone. So good times, good times. Yeah, that's where we saw the movie. And they had, like, these little minions cutouts. So that was cool. Yeah, it's like any little, uh, like there's a way to do it in a way to not do it, but like any sort of tether thio reality. And I know if you're like a machine and you're in the zone and you just don't wanna be bothered by going to see ant man, but like, there's a point where you're gonna wanna go and see ant man just for two hours just toe, you know, forget or to be distracted or just like to be entertained by something other than you know what for, however long, like seems to be or reality e agree.

That's something. And, you know, there were. I want to say four of us, maybe five, went to see the movie. It was great because, like we all knew each other, but we never got the chance to, like, go do something together on Maybe I'd hang out with one or two of those people, do something or hang out with another one some other time. But we've never done like a group thing on a day off. It's like, Oh, like half our team can go watch a movie like that was really cool.

And even though I fell asleep e still like a exactly those were actually the people I interact with most from that tour those three or four other people who went to see the movie that day, which I think probably is not because of the movie. It's like I went to the movie because I had gravitated towards those people. But it shows that, like a lasting connection was being built in that process, even if that wasn't like the soul thing, that there's a lot of value in that.

For sure, it's Z. I mean, you're all their you know what's going on, and you're probably all stressed and, you know, tired and it's like, Yeah, you're taking it for like, What? It iss? Yeah, we're all tired. Let's go do something fun exactly like that's you know, that's just how it's got to be done. And I got to say we're at the 90 minute mark here, but oh my gosh, I think that way obviously had a lot to share. We'll learn to be more concise and future episodes.

And maybe I'll be absolutely brutal with cutting things out here in pro tools. Who knows? Like, if it makes sense, I'll leave it. But we're gonna turn it into 40 minutes. But leave that bit and you're all gonna wonder what James cut out. You're gonna have to tune in next week. Yes. Speaking of episode number two, that will be an introduction to both Aaron and myself and a little background on how we got started in the music business. So be sure to check that out. Thanks so much for tuning into this first episode of the podcast.

We hope to have you back for the next episode. Until then, as always, just keep rocking. Any final words? Eric, I'm really looking forward to keeping on doing this. This is awesome. And yeah, I hope people who listen are having this much fun as I think we're having. Have you read? All right. Well, Erin, thanks so much for being a part of this. I'm looking forward to the next time. Well, that does it for the first episode of the band hive podcast. Thank you. so much for checking it out.

We really appreciate your time and energy listening to this, and we hope that you will learn many things from the podcast as it develops over time. We do have one request. If you're listening in Apple podcasts or iTunes, please go leave us a review in a rating that is so helpful to podcasts because it shows how the podcast is growing and how appreciated it is by their listeners. So if you have 30 seconds, please go do that. It would be super helpful for us. And, of course, don't forget to join the band hive Facebook group.

You can find it by going to band. I've got rocks slash group. Thanks again for listening. Have a great week and, of course, as always, keep rocking.