[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 214 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast.

[00:00:07] James: My name is James Cross, and I help independent artists tour smart. This week, I am super stoked to welcome back John Ryan of Keep Flying. How's it going today, John?

[00:00:17] John Ryan: Jim, that's you.

[00:00:20] James: It is

[00:00:21] John Ryan: going It's been a great back at for 2023 and I'm happy to be back with you here. the listeners don't know this, but we just spent probably longer amount of time talking off of the radio here. Uh, Then we are going to talk on, but it's all good stuff that hopefully they will be stoked on when it comes fruition.

[00:00:40] John Ryan: And it has put me in a much better mood than I've been in. Since we got home last Monday. So thank you for kickstarting my day here. I appreciate that.

[00:00:49] James: I'm always down to nerd out about plans. Like, this is really what gets me going. I'm just like Making plans, making plans. Like, it. And that's why I do it, because doing the podcast, then bands are [00:01:00] like, hey, what do you think of this plan? And they send me, like, their little weekender routing, and I'm like, yeah, that's great, but why don't you do it this way?

[00:01:07] James: And then, now you can come back and loop around to that city you hit last time. And it's just so fun to plan tours, man. That's really what it comes down to can tell you the same way.

[00:01:15] John Ryan: Yeah, it's never been a burden. It's always been an enjoyment, especially when it works out. Like when you have an idea and then it does actually come into fruition with very little changes. It's like, Oh, that actually is great. That the right people at the right time were able to, like, make this work the way that I was hoping it would work from the get go.

[00:01:33] John Ryan: Which, as you're well aware, isn't the case a lot of the time. Some sort of compromise and moving things around here and there in order to make it all work out.

[00:01:42] James: I think the amount of times that something in the music business has gone exactly as planned is probably close to zero.

[00:01:49] John Ryan: Very little.

[00:01:50] James: yeah,

[00:01:50] James: tiny, tiny fraction. Anyway, John, like I said, welcome back. And that's because we had you on the show last year, episode number 156, The Modern [00:02:00] DIY Band. John James Ryan of keep flying so for those of you who weren't around last year listening to the podcast or for those of you who don't remember that episode, you can check it out at bandhive.

[00:02:10] James: rocks slash 156 and hear all about keep flying this week. We're going to talk about, are you trying to make me laugh here? Are you trying to keep flying?

[00:02:20] John Ryan: No, that was, I was hoping a link will get posted there. Like, you can check out the,

[00:02:25] James: I see.

[00:02:25] John Ryan: Yeah, I watch the YouTube. People love to, oh, you know, and then they add it in later. So, I don't know, man. I'm, Just trying to stay modern, bro.

[00:02:32] James: Yeah. Yeah. Fairdive. rocks slash 156. Up where John

[00:02:36] James: is gesturing above the camera there or above his head. And so you can check that out there this week. We're going to talk about something very special that not a lot of independent artists do. And for those of you who've been keeping up, the podcast is going on hiatus after next week's episode.

[00:02:51] James: But this is one episode that I just. Absolutely wanted to have in here because we've never talked about it before and that is international touring as an independent [00:03:00] artist before we get

[00:03:01] James: to the really really fun

[00:03:02] James: stuff about international touring Let's get to some other really, really fun stuff and have you just do a quick reintroduction of Keep Flying for people who didn't listen to that episode and haven't yet gone to bandhive.

[00:03:15] James: rockslash156 to listen to it now.

[00:03:16] John Ryan: Keep Flying, is a punk rock band with horns. Horn driven punk rock as we say. Where the horns step in almost as a lead guitar. The songs kind of float in between punk, pop, punk. There's no ska really, but, you know, we get put in there, which is totally fine, because the ska bands that we like, we love.

[00:03:36] John Ryan: it's just got a little bit of something for everybody. Which is why I love being a part of it. And we are what you would call a band that is at the absolute top tier of the DIY doing it almost completely ourselves, while also somehow at the bottom tier of the bands that are getting some semblance of help, from higher up suits in the music industry [00:04:00] and friends who are willing to help us, sometimes.

[00:04:03] John Ryan: So we're like a kind of in between. Band,

[00:04:07] John Ryan: and we're very happy there

[00:04:09] James: and I think

[00:04:09] James: a big part of that though is because of how you approach the way you run the band. Mm

[00:04:14] John Ryan: look, Every artist is different. And every artist needs to find their strengths. Our strength is our live show. That is our strength. So whenever we get out there and, put on the show, we happen to. Connect with people way more than our actual streamed songs do, or any sort of internet content.

[00:04:36] John Ryan: It really is more so from the live experience of our show. Now that's not the same for every artist, so I implore every artist in this level, or doing it themselves, to accept and really push on all facets of how to grow. But the one that is your strength, I think if you lean into that, that is going to help you succeed.

[00:04:59] John Ryan: and [00:05:00] that is why we are a band that does play more shows per year than a lot of other artists, because we know that that's where we're going to excel. And also because I just need it. my own mental health, simply need to be on the move and. Seeing people and being engaged in conversations and entertaining when somebody else laughs or smiles, I'm able to get past my own depressions and feel that energy back.

[00:05:28] John Ryan: So, that isa very honest statement of what we're doing. If that works for you, then you should do that as well. And if not, you should do it a different way. Find your way and, and really lean on the, strengths. that is my advice there.

[00:05:41] James: I 100 percent agree with that. But also think the way you approach situations, the way you approach people with kindness and empathy, there's a lot of bands that don't do that. But you guys do. And I think that's part of why you have so many friends all around the country. do these amazing live shows, and then you're just genuine [00:06:00] people with everyone you interact with. think that's a massive portion of it.

[00:06:02] John Ryan: Three things. One, I was raised Roman Catholic and I was an Eagle Scout. So, there's this sense of And it took a long time for me to really get here. treat others the way you want to be treated. you know, That's a very classic statement.

[00:06:16] John Ryan: That is how I feel. Because, two, I haven't always been that way, and I have a lot of disgruntled feelings from people who have taken advantage of my kindness, and taken advantage of favors that I've done throughout my entire career. And that is something that I'm waking up to now and realizing as I look backwards on a lot of things that well, people just needed me for things.

[00:06:39] John Ryan: I guess they didn't really need me.

[00:06:40] John Ryan: but that's okay. And also too, I am trying to be a better person every day moving forward to also make up for as a lot of us are. Mistakes and, and wrongs from the past that I just can't really change now, but I can change the way I am moving [00:07:00] forward. So that's another part since this band has started, it's been that way.

[00:07:03] John Ryan: Like, oh, this is a great chance to try again and try and do it in a better way. And, three, it's just nice when you go to bed at night, like, ah, well it's nice to engage with human beings and just be kind.

[00:07:17] James: Left festering in your mind of like, man, maybe I shouldn't have treated them that badly. It's just like, cool. I was nice to them. I have no regrets. it's almost like you're at peace is how I kind of view it, right? Is that how it is for you?

[00:07:29] John Ryan: Yeah.

[00:07:29] John Ryan: most nights. And so then the nights that I'm not in peace is when I, can't sleep and I'm like, man, Another thing I'm trying to work on. We can only control our own actions and reactions. And so I am trying to not control anyone else. I can only do myself. And in doing so, let me just go the extra distance.

[00:07:51] John Ryan: Even when some people in my life who are close to me are telling me, I still can't believe how you put yourself out there. And this is not me trying to be [00:08:00] holier than thou or high and mighty. I just simply, it's in my nature to want to do for people. I just want to do that. That's why I feel the way that I feel right now.

[00:08:08] John Ryan: Wow, I really did so many favors and went out of my way so often. Really expecting nothing in return. I still expect nothing in return. It would just be nice to have some of that kindness repaid. That's all. And sometimes it is, and then you realize, okay, well that's the karma, it just came back, and look, we just got this, great opportunity, or someone just said this really nice thing, okay, that, was all worth it.

[00:08:29] James: Absolutely. And I don't think we can talk about here. So we won't, you guys have some pretty big stuff coming in 2024, but that's not what we're here to talk about. Like I said, I don't think we can. You just came back from England and you did quite a few shows there.

[00:08:42] James: How many shows did you play on that UK tour?

[00:08:44] John Ryan: I think we did eleven?

[00:08:46] James: Yeah. It's like a solid two weeks, I think. Right.

[00:08:48] James: Like,

[00:08:48] John Ryan: there were supposed to actually be another seven shows. After. But because Cliff Diver and Action Adventure asked us to do those shows before we announced the UK, thank God, we had [00:09:00] to can thosebecause we have to go back to the U. S. I tried to move them to the beginning.

[00:09:04] John Ryan: It was too late. There wasn't enough time for the venues to get hold. So, we had to let those go. And unfortunately, because of that, we didn't play any shows in the South. We didn't do anything. In London or Wales or anything down south. The closest south was Milton Keynes, which is still north of London.

[00:09:22] John Ryan: So we had some people bummed, but that is the reason why. We did have shows. But we did Lincoln, Grantham, Peterborough, Lancaster, Birmingham Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Milton Keynes, What am I missing? Warrington, which is like a suburb of Birmingham. So I think that was ten shows. Of which, most were DIY.

[00:09:45] John Ryan: Either not in venues, like completely unconventional, or Small venues or bar venues. It was a good mix for 10 shows. We did a nice mix of like couple different ways to go about booking shows here or [00:10:00] there or anywhere really which was really nice. And our great friend Mike Borgs from the Netherlands helped put that together along with some of my friends that already existed. And a couple bands who went out of their way to make sure we were taken care of.

[00:10:14] John Ryan: And it was a freaking blast, man. It was such a great experience for this band to get over. Finally go. I've been so many times for work and only one time, for my own music, which was 07. So to go back after all these years and play my own music again was like, wow, this is cool. I don't care if there's this one person in the room.

[00:10:34] John Ryan: And you know what? We had people at every show that knew the words who'd been waiting for the band to come for a long time. That was really nice. And then of course we made new fans. best feeling. Like, you know all the words? Yeah. Oh. but also since we haven't been, we had a lot of people asking for like older stuff too, which kind of has phased out here. as we're like more and more pushing new stuff, which was fine. And we did play a large amount of our catalog [00:11:00] across the show. So, what a good experience for us as people, for us as friends and for us as a band.

[00:11:07] James: Yeah. it sounds like you would do it again.

[00:11:09] John Ryan: we're going to go back in, think May.

[00:11:11] James: Oh, fantastic.

[00:11:13] John Ryan: so the short version, our flight home got canceled, a nightmare. Didn't get us on another flight that night, even though other people got put on a flight that night. All good. I complained, filled out the, paperwork, yada, yada. Four days later, we're out.

[00:11:28] John Ryan: I think it was day one with Clip Diver. very quickly after less than a week. Which mind you, we now had to fly the next day, which we had a show in Utica, New York that night. So we flew and then played a show in Utica, New York that night. That was a really long day. We were very tired, but I'm so glad we did not have to cancel that show because that was one of the best shows of the rest of the year.

[00:11:50] John Ryan: Utica is an enigma, and the people there are wonderful, and everyone that came in from Rochester, Buffalo, Binghamton, Albany, and surrounding areas. Anyway, I [00:12:00] complained, and we, we actually received all of the money back for the flights. both there and back, we were in the hole, and then suddenly we were not in the hole anymore.

[00:12:10] John Ryan: So we were inconvenienced for a day. But we received the money back. Thank you, British Airways. That is the right thing to have done since were shafted and other people were getting put on flights that night, right in front of us and behind us in line, but not us, which was interesting, which is why I complained.

[00:12:25] John Ryan: But I think the next day we were like, well, knowing that that is how it is. Let's just keep that money in the account. once it gets wired and let's use that to fly back. now that we are getting it, let's just use it right away to go back.

[00:12:39] John Ryan: And so that's what we're going to do. we wanted to wait for another opportunity, but like I said, because we didn't get to do the south cities and we just had such a good time over there. And it put our morale at 200%. I was like. let's just go. Let's figure out when it makes sense and, spring, before the summer, I think makes most sense.

[00:12:55] John Ryan: May, before their festivals, as you're aware, and the listeners, if you're [00:13:00] not aware, come Memorial Day through the whole summer is when the festival circuit happens in Europe, and it's just a tremendous amount of festivals in every country, happening every weekend, and it's kind of hard. to be a band over there not doing the festivals because all of the bands are over there doing eight of the 25 festivals with shows in between paired up with other bands on the festivals.

[00:13:25] John Ryan: So you're just competing. So I think, and I just started the dialogues this week, but we're thinking like the first few weeks of May before slam dunk hits and Memorial Day weekend. Just to get in and get out and also won't be as cold and it'll be nice to, well, it'll just be nice to go back, play some of the same places and play some new places, maybe hit Ireland this time.

[00:13:47] John Ryan: feels really good to be saying we're just going to start doing the international touring now as part of a normal routine, even though we're not. Getting an offer to go do it. We're just going to [00:14:00] go anyway.

[00:14:00] James: You're just gonna do the thing.

[00:14:02] John Ryan: Yeah.

[00:14:02] John Ryan: Well, I've been saying that every night to people, know, and you and I spoke about this before we got on the interview. There's really no excuse left to not do what it is, that's going to make you more happy. Figure it out. Financially, it doesn't make any sense for us. Ah, it doesn't matter.

[00:14:21] John Ryan: We'll figure it out. We're all adult people. We'll, go to work after the tour and make the money back. It just is what it is. But, we know that going there is gonna bring up our mental health and also just make us have such great memories and a good time. Nah, let's just do it. let's not keep saying next year, next year, next year.

[00:14:37] John Ryan: Which is why we, did push the envelope and went. we've been saying this for four years. We have to go. We can't wait anymore. Let's just do it. We'll do it ourself. Screw it. And it was successful. Really only one show was like there were people there in Manchester, but it was like chiseling a, eight foot thick concrete wall, trying to get these people to, I don't know what you want from me.

[00:14:59] John Ryan: I'm, [00:15:00] breaking my spine up here. Again, they were there and they were attentive, for some reason it was just impossible to break through. But we still had a good time. And like I said, one out of ten like that. That's a success.

[00:15:11] James: That's a

[00:15:12] James: 90 percent rate of getting people to just relax and have an

[00:15:16] John Ryan: Oh, every other show, people were just hammered. People were having fun, dancing, drinking. They don't know any of the words. They don't care. And then they're buying the record after, or they're, they're adding us on the socials or the Spotify or whatever. and you're like, all right, it's working. You had a good time. that's all we care about. We want

[00:15:31] John Ryan: you to have a good time.

[00:15:32] James: that's what people are buying when they buy a ticket to a show They're buying a ticket to a good time. Like that's why they're going

[00:15:37] John Ryan: And half of these shows were free. So you had no excuse. Half of these shows the bar was paying us from the bar sales and the show was free so it was pretty easy to promote those ones. Hey, it's a Tuesday. If you're free, it costs no money. Just get here and enjoy three bands of punk rock music. Two bands from the area and a band [00:16:00] from the U.

[00:16:00] John Ryan: S. It costs you nothing except your time. I promise you, if you have nothing better to do, this will be a great use of your time.

[00:16:08] James: you mentioned bars were these all bar shows or did you mix in other types of venues on the tour as Well,

[00:16:13] John Ryan: no, it was a mix. We played, let's see, a barcade where the downstairs room, which is very common over there, like little small spaces in basically the basement. It felt like a basement show actually. But it's a venue, but it's small, 60 capacity, but you had everybody playing video games in the room and then the band would play.

[00:16:31] John Ryan: They'd all come in and they'd go back to playing the video games. It was interesting. my best mate in the UK, Danny's Tattoo Parlor, which he had to convince his partner he runs the business with to allow a show to happen. And that was one of my favorite shows of the whole tour, in Grantham.

[00:16:46] John Ryan: So that was completely DIY. They borrowed a PA and his band and ours, that's it, two bands, super fun. We played, a storage unit. That they've transformed into a venue [00:17:00] that also in the back was a house that the guy used to live in but doesn't live in anymore. He was awesome. He was cold to us when we got there, but by the end of the night we were like, we love this guy.

[00:17:10] John Ryan: This guy rocks. And that was super DIY, but they had set up the space like a really small venue, not DIY, which was interesting. And then we played two proper venues that are, you know, have bars, but they're venues, music venues. We played a bar that in Lancaster, that was one of my favorite shows of the tour, which is more so like an old pub, but they do have a stage, but it's very narrow and small.

[00:17:36] John Ryan: So it was like really hard for us as a six piece to do the show, but most people of any of the shows by far. So it was just an amazing time. Glasgow was a restaurant that turns into a music venue for about two and a half hours, some nights, and then becomes a club also after the shows. That was a really interesting three for one

[00:17:56] James:

[00:17:56] John Ryan: restaurant, venue, club space.

[00:17:59] John Ryan: [00:18:00] Small. And then a couple proper venues, MK11 and Milton Keynes is a music venue with two rooms. And Newcastle, was like a small venue that recently moved, I think after the pandemic to a larger space, but like they're trying to really build up the scene there in Newcastle, which is the North for people who don't know.

[00:18:16] John Ryan: And not a lot of bands go up there.

[00:18:18] James: It's like Vermont.

[00:18:19] John Ryan: yes. Carlisle, Newcastle, these places are like Vermont, like New Hampshire. They're up there. There are people, but a lot of the tours get announced for UK dates and it's got Manchester, Birmingham, London, of course, maybe Leeds is the furthest north they go.

[00:18:37] John Ryan: Even in Glasgow, Scotland, our buddies there started telling me a lot of the the British fans don't even come up anymore. They don't want to make the trek up here, which. We're laughing because you're talking six hours, which is what we do normally, that's just a different culture

[00:18:50] James: having, German family who's like, Oh, two and a half hours is so far, I'm like,

[00:18:54] James: It takes me an hour just to get to like civilization.

[00:18:57] John Ryan: yep, that said, the Brits did let [00:19:00] us know. You don't understand, bro. Six hours. Here's why we're upset, because for British people, that's factoring in a breakfast. That's factoring in a lunch. We need to make several stops for a beverage or tea or coffee. We're going to need to hit the loo.

[00:19:13] John Ryan: And you're thinking we have jugs that we urinate in, in the van. And we sometimes stop no times on a five hour drive.

[00:19:21] John Ryan: None. We hit the Starbuck or the Duncan in the morning, and then that's it. We're at the venue

[00:19:25] James: you're just going.

[00:19:26] John Ryan: We have gas from the night before. So we're just going to get it's different.

[00:19:30] John Ryan: It is different. And you get that. I do.

[00:19:32] James: having been blessed to do tours on a bus, as you have as well, in your, working history, and then tours in a van, it's night and day. And so I can see why people in the UK. Might be hesitant to drive, but so what if you stop for 15 minutes along the way you stop for 15 minutes Just make the drive have fun go see look if I were in the UK and a band came and did like three shows within a couple hours to me I would go to all three if it's a band I really care about

[00:19:58] John Ryan: Right.

[00:19:58] James: and the UK they might be [00:20:00] like, oh, that's half an hour away.

[00:20:00] James: That's too far I'm not even gonna go to one.

[00:20:02] John Ryan: Well, you know what I think about?

[00:20:05] John Ryan: A lot of times I've been over there for work. It has been either three shows. Cause it's just like a festival and two underplays. And so you're like, well, we don't really need a bus for that because it's just so short. the longer ones that we've had that are like 10 to 14 shows, which I've done in the bus is great or in a sleeping vehicle in general, where you don't have to do that drive and it happens overnight.

[00:20:27] John Ryan: It is great to wake up at nine o'clock and have the whole day, but man, for keep flying and I think for any DIY band going over to do it. It's not really needed because these load ins are like or 6 p. m. And a lot of the drives are only 2 hours an hour. We were having off days every day, even though we were playing a show at night.

[00:20:47] John Ryan: Because

[00:20:48] John Ryan: We'd wake up and leave and get to this next place and have many hours before we had to load in. you know, that's definitely not something I think that we need or anyone really needs in that country specifically. if you're [00:21:00] doing a lot of shows,

[00:21:00] John Ryan: unless the route makes no sense and it's like this,

[00:21:03] James: The

[00:21:04] John Ryan: none of these some of these drives

[00:21:05] John Ryan: we had were less than an hour, 55 minute drive.

[00:21:08] James: I mean, that's I'm

[00:21:09] James: Saying for

[00:21:10] John Ryan: the

[00:21:10] James: fans, like go to multiple shows. If it's a band you care about that

[00:21:14] James: much. You know, like if, if it's an hour or two down the road,

[00:21:17] John Ryan: we have people like that here in the States, which is very nice that we have that. The people who do that for us at home. That come to, you know, two or more shows. on a tour. It's like, you rock, man. Thank you.

[00:21:27] James: on the longer drives, relatively speaking that

[00:21:30] James: we have here in the states. Most of the time. Not always, but most of the time.

[00:21:34] John Ryan: know, it was Nice. having the plethora of shows in the, UK. Which is the way I would love to do it every time. I know it won't always be that way, but. We were able to stay in a few different places many nights because we would be like, well, we could just go back because the next drives. only really backtracking like a half an hour, but we can now leave all our bags and we don't have to deal with bringing all the sleeping bags.

[00:21:55] John Ryan: We could just go back. at Danny's house, we stayed, I think, three nights [00:22:00] at this community church space. We stayed at in uh, Warrington. I think we also stayed three nights because it was a great place. There was all cots set up for us. Our buddy, Chris, was feeding us breakfast and coffee. It was like, this is like a safe haven.

[00:22:14] John Ryan: I don't want to leave here. clearly we would do the same thing my buddy Pook put us up two nights. Our friend Amy was like, when you come back and do the South shows, you can stay at my place every night, all these cities are all equidistant an hour away, just keep coming back to the house, you're like, actually that does make sense, then we don't have to get hotels, and we don't have to stress about where we can fit, because a lot of people's places are a bit smaller there, the rest of the world, people don't have houses like people do in the United States,

[00:22:41] James: Yeah, no McMansions or anything like

[00:22:43] James: that.

[00:22:44] John Ryan: except for the Dixon family, Ross, If you hear this, thank you.

[00:22:48] John Ryan: live in the Newcastle area and they have a tremendous home where they've been putting up bands for years. Hundreds of bands over the years. Great people. And that was a nice, great sleep [00:23:00] we needed that night. revitalized us. It was like we all slept in beds and everybody woke up like, Alright, we're ready for the last three shows.

[00:23:07] John Ryan: Let's go.

[00:23:07] James: Yeah. Your backs aren't all crooked from sleeping on the floor or a cot or something. that makes such a difference. sounds like there have been a lot of highlights on this

[00:23:16] James: tour.

[00:23:16] John Ryan: Yeah.

[00:23:16] James: you had to pick like a top three moments, what would you say those were?

[00:23:20] John Ryan: The first tube ride in London for the band. We we at Cockfoster Station which is like the last line on one of the lines in

[00:23:29] James: Mm hmm.

[00:23:36] John Ryan: been over there just watching the excitement.

[00:23:38] John Ryan: Chuck and Pete were just so happy, we were so tired. No one slept on the flight, no one could. We were all jet lagged and everyone was like, falling asleep, but still excited. It was that mixture of, I can't believe we're just punishing ourselves with just going and walking around all day and like seeing stuff in London when we really just want to go to sleep.

[00:23:59] John Ryan: it felt [00:24:00] like a big victory for. Camp keep flying. That was my favorite moment was getting there getting picked up Henry losing all his shit and us having to Wait forever to him not find it and just truly. Oh just like a classic moment of What happened here? Why how did this happen?

[00:24:20] John Ryan: But now you can look back and laugh That would be number one number two. I would say and I mentioned this earlier Lancaster, the city was they're all old cities, it just was a little bit different, felt more village y and hipster in a way that I like, not in a way that is conceited and I'm better than you, in a way that was just

[00:24:42] John Ryan: young with the old, modern with the classic, So walking around and then, of course, the show was by far at Ye Olde John O'Gaunt.

[00:24:53] John Ryan: That was the name of the pub. My favorite of the tour. Like, just, we were just,

[00:24:56] James: of pubs in the UK. They're so creative.

[00:24:59] John Ryan: [00:25:00] when we, first got there, we were like, how the hell are we going to make this work? And the place at, 4pm was so packed with people and it never let up. It was packed the whole night. And the owner. Who lives upstairs.

[00:25:11] John Ryan: Wonderful woman. She was so kind. That's number two. Number three, I would say, was when we were all a little delirious. And Danny, who's also a tattooer, tattooed Margaret Thatcher tattoos on four of us. Because that's what Dustin wanted for his birthday. As an insult to the British people and an inside joke for us.

[00:25:30] John Ryan: Because they loathe her more than I think any. Historical figure of their time and none of us really knew anything about her and then learned very quickly a lot of hateful things and we were like, Yeah,

[00:25:42] John Ryan: that's funny and Dustin was like, that's what I want. And in solidarity, three of us got it with him and with a little KF 23 UK tour 23 or whatever it says.

[00:25:53] John Ryan: And I was like, this is a funny thing. Um, Because it was a bonding moment as friends just having a [00:26:00] good time separate from the fact that we were also there to work and play shows and link with people, you know, make connections, which we did.

[00:26:09] James: I just gotta say I'm picturing now you just walking around with like a ghetto blast on your shoulder Blasting Sinead O'Connor while showing off the tattoo.

[00:26:17] John Ryan: think that is something we'll do next time. In fact, when we played in Warrington, Dustin, like let the crowd know and they all booed, which we knew they were gonna, but it was his birthday and he did a really great job of telling the story in a way that was, Just so funny and kind top of that, our buddy Chris, who put us up, who's a wild character.

[00:26:37] John Ryan: He had no tattoos and he, I think, got peer pressured into getting his first tattoo ever, which he got very nice lettering on his arm over here. But this guy we just met just came into our lives and suddenly we're having this bonding moment with a fella. That went out of his way to give us kindness, and we're sharing laughs with his crazy ass. that was another part of it, why it was like, [00:27:00] made it special. And then we also all tattooed Danny, horrifically, our band logo on him. Each of us did a couple letters and lines, and it is horrible. It came out so bad, that's what he wanted. And that was again, another bonding moment of, Why are you letting us do this?

[00:27:16] John Ryan: Why?

[00:27:17] James: for Danny. He

[00:27:18] James: wanted it.

[00:27:19] John Ryan: There were so many moments though, bro. I could give you 30.

[00:27:21] John Ryan: that's how I know it was a successful tour all around.

[00:27:25] James: Yeah It's just that when the highlights reel in your head doesn't stop that's a good tour.

[00:27:28] John Ryan: You know what? That energy stayed with us for the rest of the year. Because the second we got back, that Utica show was unreal. And then all of the Cliff Diver action shows were unreal. And all of our shows in between, and the last week. Where we were headlining again. All unreal. Every show. Even the smaller ones.

[00:27:45] John Ryan: You know, we were at Cat's Cradle in Carrboro. people. 50 people maybe with the bands total.I think 35 paid if I'm being honest. Great night. Everyone was dancing. Our buddy John started a conga line. Like everybody [00:28:00] was having fun. And I'm thinking to myself, thank God I'm here on a Wednesday. And not somewhere else.

[00:28:06] John Ryan: Still, I feel this way. I still feel. I would rather that than be no offense to you, but here sitting in my now past grandfather's recliner because this is the most comfortable place for me to be because it, gets me close to him because this is where he sat for many years. And

[00:28:21] John Ryan: I'm, you know, I'm bummed. I'm bummed, man. I'm not gonna lie.

[00:28:24] James: No, I get it. it's a different feeling, and you've twerked way more than I have. I don't think I can fully comprehend it the way you do. I've done a fair share of twerking, but not to the same extent. And for me it's like, I love being on the road, but at a certain point I realized I needed to be home, for me.

[00:28:40] James: And like, so I understand that of like, I need to be somewhere. And for you, that's on the road for me. That's at home. get it, I like being home too I did learn pandemic.

[00:28:50] James: This is just what I know…

[00:28:51] John Ryan: I'm sure that's part of it. I left at 18 and a half years old. I'm 37 years old now. You're talking about coming up on 20 [00:29:00] years next year that I've just been. A full time drifter, whether playing music or working for bands, selling merch, tour managing, working festivals, just traveling, staying after tours, leaving for tours early, in between the tour times, taking little trips here and there, I've just been a full time traveler, so, Yeah. man, like, we've been off the road for eight days today, I'm bummed, but I'm gonna be excited the next two weeks with my loved ones the holiday.

[00:29:30] John Ryan: But, you know,

[00:29:31] James: Yeah.

[00:29:31] John Ryan: grateful for all the experiences that we got to have this year, and I'm looking forward to getting back to it next year. And, I'm imploring every small band who thinks that they can't do things, once again, like in the last interview, to just do them.

[00:29:49] John Ryan: Ask how, ask people who are also in small bands like us, I will happily answer any message that comes through on any of the social media inboxes. Here's my [00:30:00] suggestion. You have to find your own way to do it, but here's what we did and maybe some of this might work for you.

[00:30:05] James: Yeah,

[00:30:06] John Ryan: and I still ask people all the time, by the way.

[00:30:09] John Ryan: I'm still always asking people. We UK. I already have sent all the messages to All the people that I made friends with, new people, asking what do you think? Do you think this is a good time? Do you think we should do that venue again or a different space? What bands? I'm asking other people because I don't know and I need to gather information.

[00:30:28] James: and, this is why it's a big level of band works with a promoter. They have their agent reach out to a promoter and that promoter knows like, hey, these are the three different venues that I work with, whether they're a live nation promoter or third party. Yeah. They know, hey, you're going to fit in this room and it's going to be best if you come through on a Thursday or a Friday night, you know, like they're going to look at it and they know that market.

[00:30:50] James: Cause you might say, hey, we don't want to do Monday shows. And then some promoter says, actually, you guys would be perfect for a Monday and this little college town. Cause there's nothing else going on on Mondays. never

[00:30:59] John Ryan: are [00:31:00] my favorite ones. There are a bunch of those like that. For Donya, in New York, upstate New York, Wednesdays is their big day. you're Right. there are places who are like, Oh, thank God you're not coming on the weekend. Nashville sucks on the weekend.

[00:31:12] John Ryan: Everybody's involved in music and everybody's out doing weekend warrior stuff so no one's home. Everybody's working on the weekend. You gotta hit Monday, Tuesday. Tuesday, specifically, is like a good day to play Nashville because it's in between the week.

[00:31:25] James:

[00:31:25] John Ryan: People are traveling home on Monday, they leave on Thursday. Get them on the Tuesday.

[00:31:29] James: where they do

[00:31:30] James: the three on four off. Which that's kind of a dream touring lifestyle for many. I wouldn't like the flying back and forth all the time part, I think. But for some people, that's, how you do it and they love it.

[00:31:40] John Ryan: I was gonna say, I think a lot of people now are Nashville based for that reason. That they don't wanna fly. Or the artist is simply not gonna cover them flying. It's like a requirement for so many,

[00:31:51] John Ryan: Country and pop teams now. It's like, you gotta live in Nashville, or close. You gotta live close to here.

[00:31:56] John Ryan: lot of my friends moved on to that world. And a lot of them are happy.[00:32:00] My best friend works for Riley Green and he, loves it. He loves getting a salary and he loves knowing when the shows are. And then he knows he's going to be home these days of the week. And he can make all these plans and he's able to not leave yard work for two months.

[00:32:14] John Ryan: Like he can actually get things done and that's really nice. I, I do understand that now. because of so many people who do it that I'm friends with. that, that is another way for some, a better way for some not, but yes, I've been very interested in maybe trying that out down the line.

[00:32:30] John Ryan: That sounds like something that could be interesting. You know, it's also more stable now, you know, you're getting a salary all year and you know what your dates are and you could do more work if you'd like on the dates where you're not booked by that, team. Okay. Interesting.

[00:32:44] James: That's a big plus. And

[00:32:46] James: a lot of times, at least from what I've seen You know, you have that stability country music, but you also then have the benefits because you're on salary You're getting health insurance. You're getting a retirement plan all that stuff Which as we get older we realize [00:33:00] you know what that stuff actually kind of does matter it's tough

[00:33:03] John Ryan: Yeah, I don't have that.

[00:33:04] James:

[00:33:04] John Ryan: I have healthcare through New York State, but I don't have any retirement or anything. I have some, I have savings, but I was getting underpaid my whole career.

[00:33:13] John Ryan: of friends let me know that, often. why are you only getting this?

[00:33:17] John Ryan: Why didn't you ask? And I just felt bad because I work for my friends mostly. And so I just didn't have it in me to want to ask. That is not a mistake. That is what was my choice and I'm not upset about it. But I, again, look back and recognize, wow. I really was giving some people a really great deal.

[00:33:35] James: if they came in and hired somebody Who they didn't know and was just a tour manager. They might have been paying a lot more. I don't know what you're Getting paid but

[00:33:43] John Ryan: you and I were talking earlier. I do have a rate now for when I am asked to fill in for somebody or something, which is higher than it's ever been because I recognize the value of what I bring to the table when it comes to work.

[00:33:54] John Ryan: Again, more now than ever before. I think a lot of us during the pandemic [00:34:00] started valuing our time more than ever before And know what our value is more than we did before. So I think that's not a bad thing. All good. it, is what it, is. I had a lot of great fun experiences and got to travel the whole world and got paid some money to do it.

[00:34:14] John Ryan: I have no complaints. I was fortunate to have a family who, let me continue to stay at home. Since I was barely around and basically sleep in a small room with piles of junk all around me.

[00:34:24] John Ryan: So that I didn't have to ever get a apartment

[00:34:27] James: Yeah. why

[00:34:28] James: spend that money on something that

[00:34:29] James: you're not using 90 percent of the time?

[00:34:32] John Ryan: correct and I did spend money on a lot of Like, collectibles and once again during the pandemic realized I actually don't need any of this stuff. I had a really fun time collecting this stuff, but talk about Retirement? I guess this is what I should have put this money into that instead of into these board games, which again, I love.

[00:34:51] John Ryan: But I thought I was just awesome buying stuff and making myself feel good. I did feel good, but now I'm like, okay. Well, if I'm going to keep touring. I need to [00:35:00] find a way to turn this back into money and, try to make some sort of savings, I guess, or an IRA, I don't know. I'm not good when it comes to, cause I never had 401k or anything like this.

[00:35:11] John Ryan: I don't really know. that's like next for me. Next year, I'm going to look into how can I better myself for the future financially? Is there a way? should I do? I don't want to do stocks. It scares the shit out of me. Makes me nervous. So many friends of, I'm sure you too, like crypto people were going up and then spiking down.

[00:35:30] John Ryan: I was like, no, I can't do this. I'm not a gambler. Nope.

[00:35:33] James: if you want to talk about.

[00:35:34] James: IRAs and investment stuff sometime. I'm not an advisor, but I'm happy to share what I've, been doing the last three or four years with my

[00:35:41] John Ryan: That would be, That

[00:35:42] John Ryan: would be great. I wish that was class that I had taken in

[00:35:45] John Ryan: college.

[00:35:46] James: Dude, I, took a finance

[00:35:47] James: class and they didn't even mention That stuff. like a

[00:35:49] James: personal finance class and I loved parts of it. I hated other parts of it. And it was, just a lot of the most important stuff they didn't teach us,

[00:35:55] John Ryan: Henry says it all the time. There's so many like real [00:36:00] tools that probably should have been taught even in high school when it comes to loans, things that are going to affect you as an adult credit cards. That was no class on like, here's what a credit card is and here's why you should have one.

[00:36:13] John Ryan: And here's how to make sure that your credit goes up your credit score. This wasn't a class and really it probably should have been because I have adult friends my age that still don't have credit cards and don't know because they're just afraid. And they just don't know you know, to each their own, that's fine.

[00:36:30] John Ryan: You have a way that works for you. But maybe if there was a class that we all took, everyone would be a little bit more prepared for you're going to be screwed if you do this. Don't do that. That's going to be bad. Instead, it's

[00:36:43] John Ryan: we're all just mindlessly doing these things and finding out, oh, I'm screwed now.

[00:36:48] John Ryan: Damn.

[00:36:49] James: and there's so many things that you need a credit card for but speaking of being prepared know if you're gonna do an international tour, there's so much more that goes into it did

[00:36:58] John Ryan: yeah, we went on a tangent [00:37:00] there.

[00:37:00] James: a tangent? But a good tangent

[00:37:01] John Ryan: Okay, good. Good.

[00:37:02] James: maybe to this day people don't realize like hey I

[00:37:05] James: have this gap in my knowledge.

[00:37:07] James: I need to learn more about it and I'm just going to say right now, check out Doctor of Credit and The Points Guy. If, you want to learn about credit cards and managing money, The Points Guy and Doctor of Credit. They both frequently talk about deals, but they'll also talk about like, hey, this is how this specific credit card works.

[00:37:22] James: This is who it's good for, based on your living situation, where you are in life. Like, are you a student? Are you in a career? Like, what's going on? It's a lot of affiliate links. That's how they make their money. But I have generally found their advice to be solid.

[00:37:35] John Ryan: Hey, any advice is helpful for people who don't know.

[00:37:39] James: Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, we can talk about that and nerd out about IRAs and points and miles and all that stuff. Like view that as a game. I'm just like, what can I do to go see my family in Germany once a year for free?

[00:37:52] John Ryan: Right, dude. We're the same with that.

[00:37:54] James: it's so fun

[00:37:55] John Ryan: How are we gonna get there? What do we gotta do to get there? What kinda, weird gimmicks that are [00:38:00] all legal

[00:38:00] James: and and encouraged, advertised

[00:38:03] James: so, you know speaking of getting there. What are the steps that you have to sit down and say for this UK tour? These are the things that we normally don't even have to consider but we have to pay attention to this now. Mm

[00:38:14] James: Okay, so a couple things. Out the gate, One, I was looking for flight deals for a long time. I did end up finding some. I use a website called Secret Flying. And I just have it set on New York to England or London. I just checked it every so often and there was a deal on British Airways, which I made moves on, which was great.

[00:38:35] James: Because the prices have gone up,

[00:38:37] James: going back and forth to the uk. other places? No, but for some reason the UK it went up. that's

[00:38:41] James: all

[00:38:41] James: taxes post brexit

[00:38:42] John Ryan: as a six piece band. Well, we got a lot more expenses there. Okay. Two. I had to make the decision between are we going to print merch over there or bring merch over?

[00:38:54] John Ryan: I have done both for work. I did ultimately decide that it would be smarter use [00:39:00] of our Financing to bring in large military duffel bags three bags of 50 pounds of merch a piece or 48 pounds Because it was cheaper to bring stuff that we already had printed, that we had already used in the U. S. for full tour in August September.

[00:39:18] John Ryan: And so, this stuff is old to the people in the States, but new to the people in England, so let's just bring it over. Great. Three. I needed to decide what gear we were going to bring. Because this is now us flying. can't bring a drum kit. I did arrange for drums at every show, which was nice, either by that venue or by one of the other bands playing.

[00:39:39] John Ryan: We brought the instruments with us. But drums, we actually gambled and we borrowed from our friend Danny, cymbals and snare. you know, I just asked what he had and He had drummer who had all this gear, and I had him send a video, and we decided these will work, instead of us having to bring these over, but Peter brought his pedals over just because, you [00:40:00] know, he didn't want to take the gamble.

[00:40:01] John Ryan: Cool, so that's done. Here's our check bags. Weigh everything, make sure everything's under 50 pounds, we're good to go. The good news about Keep Flying is that we have switched to digital heads, specifically. The guitar players both use the HX stomp, which is just sits on their pedal board. So I was like well as long as we can Bring those We'll be fine.

[00:40:21] John Ryan: We just need to borrow cabs, which we did. I also with the drums. I worked out cabs every night that worked out Power is different over there. So that is a thing you have to remember I bought a step down transformer years ago, my buddy Danny, who's been my friend since 07. He drove the first tour I ever did there and is still driving now, for us. Which is amazing, full circle moment. He still had the same step down transformer that I bought 15 years ago. so I bought two more, just so that each of the guys would have their own power area.

[00:40:52] John Ryan: But, the new ones I bought were 2, 000 watt step downs, and a lot of these venues were not venues. They were DIY spaces, we had a [00:41:00] couple nights where we couldn't use both because it was drawing so much power that it was tripping the breakers. So I realized, okay, I probably should have gotten a size smaller, but I was being smart about it.

[00:41:10] John Ryan: I said, but let's just get the 2000 watt in case we ever need to run anything. You know, I'm buying them. Might as well buy the bigger ones.

[00:41:16] James: Buy once,

[00:41:16] James: cry once.

[00:41:17] John Ryan: Right. So those I bought now we have them forever and Danny's storing them. Sleeping bags, same thing. We weren't going to bring bedding. I bought them all on Amazon.

[00:41:26] John Ryan: He's storing them for us. I won't have to spend that next time. And then the biggest thing I would say for DIY bands, the most important is I did decide to go with the working visa, the working permit. You can certainly try to go without one. Plenty of people do. But I got a quote from a third party.

[00:41:45] John Ryan: A lot of booking agency companies will, give the client. Working permits as part of the thing. We didn't have that. And so my good friend Graham at ATC live said, yo, here's a lady who does third party sponsorship, did all the paperwork for her. [00:42:00] and I gotta be honest, it was only about 350 bucks us for six people.

[00:42:04] James: that's really cheap when you look at

[00:42:06] James: what a Canadian has to pay to come to the u. s And it's really like 500 for work permit here.

[00:42:12] John Ryan: for the British to come here it's over a thousand.

[00:42:14] James: Yeah per person. It's insane.

[00:42:15] John Ryan: my, my friend's power metal band Twilight Force from Sweden are coming. They're a six piece plus a front of house person. I think he's paying almost between a thousand and two thousand per person come do their first U.

[00:42:26] John Ryan: S. tour ever over here in March. screwed.

[00:42:29] James: insane

[00:42:30] John Ryan: It's only going to get worse when it comes to that, in the U. S. But yeah, so my recommendation is to just do it the legal way. in my opinion, you can do what you want, but you can hit this link and it'll message me and I will send you the email to this lady.

[00:42:43] John Ryan: But Yeah she does third party sponsorship it was seamless, it was quick, it was really inexpensive, and our crossing into the country was the exact same way. because we went the right way. We had no issues. Everyone was smiles and laughs. We stood there for about 10 minutes. They ran [00:43:00] COS numbers.

[00:43:00] John Ryan: They came back stamped all passports. See you later. We're in no problems. No thoughts. I don't need to think about this anymore. I don't need to be sweating or nervous again. I know plenty of bands that have been a million times and they've never had the permit. That's fine. That works for you. That's fine.

[00:43:14] John Ryan: I just didn't want to do that I didn't want that to fall on me.

[00:43:18] John Ryan: Cause I was already stressed about other

[00:43:19] John Ryan: things.

[00:43:19] James: I was just gonna say having that peace of mind is incredible and especially when you move to Europe, you know, this is specifically for the UK that you've done,

[00:43:27] James: but I remember that in Europe, every country has a different law. So I'm like, yeah, you can work for 10 days on a Schengen visa.

[00:43:33] James: So you don't need anything extra. Others are like, no, you can't even work a single day. You need a visa. hiring somebody to do that, especially if you're going to multiple countries. Because they know those laws, and you don't have to spend hours googling it and figuring out what's legal and not. you don't want to get banned from a country, or thrown in jail, or,. deported, or

[00:43:51] James: no, I told, andit's worth the peace of mind

I

[00:43:53] John Ryan: I told my guys

[00:43:54] John Ryan: that, I

[00:43:54] John Ryan: told them, please, nobody do anything dumb here. I don't want to deal with not coming back. the woman, [00:44:00] Tina was like, there's a way to do it for free, but it was different process that I just didn't want to do. So I just said, nah, I'm just, would rather get the COS numbers.

[00:44:08] John Ryan: I don't care. I'll pay the couple hundred bucks. It's worth it for me. And those are really all the factors. The only other thing that I, had forgotten and was quickly reminded of is England has already for a long time now instilled congestion, fees. So like all of the cities, once you cross a certain threshold, you now owe the government X dollars for just going with a vehicle into thank you.

[00:44:30] John Ryan: The red zone as they call it and I forgot so that happened almost every, day Danny would tell me, Oh, it was 11 bucks. Do you want to pay it on your card? It's not a lot of money, but it was definitely something and we got hit with one ticket because there was one place we went where I guess you weren't even legally allowed to drive a vanthe CCTV there is everywhere.

[00:44:49] John Ryan: You can't get away. Not possible. So we got hit. with like a hundred and fifty pound ticket. I just sent him the money on PayPal. All good. But I would pay a little attention to that. [00:45:00] We did have a driver. I guess that's another factor. My friend Danny has a van and he was willing to rent us the van for cheap.not everyone's gonna have that luxury. There are a lot of small van rental companies over there. A ton. That you can get for between 100 and 200 pounds a day. You could drive yourself over there. I've done a tour like that as well. It takes a minute to get adjusted to, but then you're fine.

[00:45:23] John Ryan: Only thing is so many of the vans manual. So if you don't know how to drive stick, if they have an automatic or if you're fine to drive stick, you're all good. That was very big reason why we're able to do this as well though.

[00:45:34] John Ryan: Again, there are bands over there with these vans. Hit them up, ask them, just like you would here in the U. S. It's probably cheaper to hit up a van that has a van than a van rental company. cheaper for someone to hit me up here and borrow one of Keep Flying's two vans than it's going to be for you to rent from Green Vans.

[00:45:50] John Ryan: Granted, Green Vans is going to give you a brand new Ford Transit or Sprinter, whereas I'm going to give you a 2003 Ford E350 van. It is what it is, my friend's van, Heavy [00:46:00] Hex, just borrowed the van. And we did it for 75 bucks a day, which I thought was fair. That basically covers the insurance.

[00:46:06] John Ryan: And they put like a couple thousand miles on the van real quick. it doesn't hurt to ask. I would say that was a big part of the planning though. If I didn't have that, I would've had to spend much more time planning, renting gear and renting a van and a lot of stuff like that.

[00:46:19] John Ryan: but again, It's all out there. You can do all that as well. You know, there's plenty of stuff out there to do for that kind of thing.

[00:46:26] James: Yeah, and think, too,

[00:46:27] James: the entire idea of having a driver just makes it so much easier in a foreign country. Now, obviously, England, the signs are in English. That's easy enough. But if you're going to drive through Europe, well, what if you can't read the signs and all of a sudden you miss something important?

[00:46:41] James: Yeah. that is something to consider, I think, when you're driving through Europe, if you go to the mainland.

[00:46:45] John Ryan: I think also it's just, it's nice to have someone else there.

[00:46:49] James: Yeah, somebody, their home

[00:46:50] James: turf. they know this is where we're going.

[00:46:52] John Ryan: Yeah, the same way I would imagine a Japanese band coming here. Would love to have someone who lives here, be there.

[00:46:59] James: any [00:47:00] international band. Maybe not Canadians, but Even British people who haven't been here, a band that's never been to the U. S., let's say. It probably is easier to have someone who lives here, who knows main highways and knows, Oh, no, you shouldn't, go that way.

[00:47:14] John Ryan: We should take 95 instead. Or, let's not take 95 because it's a Thursday at 3 p. m. We're not doing that. That's bad. We'll go this way. Things like that.

[00:47:22] John Ryan: Plus, it's nice when it's your friend.

[00:47:25] James: along the way. It's

[00:47:26] James: someone you know, they're gonna be a chill hang. It all adds up, and especially like, Going to a foreign country, which I haven't done on tour, I've done it just as a person, can be really exhilarating, but also kind of overwhelming having to look up all the stuff that you need to know beforehand.

[00:47:41] John Ryan: Yep.

[00:47:42] James: that resource, if you have a friend there that you can just pick their brain, that's a huge

[00:47:45] James: advantage.

[00:47:46] John Ryan: Also, like, they know people. if you're trying to not get the hotels, having somebody who lives over there who's got homies, like the same way we do here, it's like, oh, let me hit up some friends in that next city just to see if anybody's got a place for us to stay, you know what I mean?

[00:47:59] James: Yeah, [00:48:00] absolutely. That's such an advantage. Goes back to planning and having your budget in line and saying, Hey, you know, we can save a couple of hundred pounds a night by not going to hotels.

[00:48:10] John Ryan: our budget was zero, so, We tried to get as close to that as we could since we knew out the gate, we were going to lose money going, but this was not about making money. This was about morale, something new, something we've been saying we want to do and doing it. And that is, as we've talked several times now in this conversation, what's your time worth?

[00:48:33] John Ryan: Is it worth losing four grand? For the memories and the experiences and something that you might never do otherwise, probably, at least for us, it was so

[00:48:42] James: Well, if you think about it too, a lot of

[00:48:43] James: people would spend four grand for a family vacation. That's a week long for like four people, two adults, two

[00:48:48] John Ryan: right,

[00:48:48] James: So you go over with six people and you spend a week and a half there you're coming out ahead

[00:48:53] James: effectively. Like you're doing something you love in a place that you wouldn't get to do it normally.

[00:48:57] John Ryan: I would.

[00:48:57] John Ryan: agree with that sentiment and also[00:49:00] it was just so needed.

[00:49:01] James: Yeah.

[00:49:02] John Ryan: it was so needed. By everyone in the camp and the people over there that have been waiting for us this whole damn time.

[00:49:08] James:

[00:49:08] James: think that the goodwill that you give to your fans

[00:49:11] James: when you say, Hey, we're finally coming over to play shows in your country. That's massive. They're not going to forget that because there's so many other bands, way bigger bands, and I mean that in the kindest of ways,

[00:49:22] John Ryan: of

[00:49:22] James: never touch England or Europe, you know?

[00:49:24] James: Like and

[00:49:25] James: I'm not going to name them here, but The last time they played a headlining show in the UK, or Europe at all, was 2010. to go every cycle, and now they haven't touched except for three uh, opening dates for, like, another much bigger act on the same management. That's the only time they've been there in 13 years, and they're, like, a big, at this point, legacy act.

[00:49:45] John Ryan: I get it for bans coming to the states because of what we talked about with the visas.

[00:49:49] James: other way, though, we're talking bands that are Probably

[00:49:52] James: going to at least break even if not make a profit because they're big enough that they can ask for the guarantees

[00:49:57] James: all their expenses are paid. And then Okay. [00:50:00] they'll make money on merch.

[00:50:00] John Ryan:

[00:50:00] John Ryan: I don't know man, I mean, Bands I worked for, that were much larger than mine,

[00:50:06] John Ryan: made no money over there, and still went.

[00:50:08] James:

[00:50:08] John Ryan: they did eventually make money, which felt good to have it happen under, my command.

[00:50:13] John Ryan: gotta start somewhere. I don't know, because the same time, again a former client. We got offered like China dates years back money was very low and they just didn't want to do it, which again, I respect, but I think I was really hoping that they would say yes, because I'm thinking this opportunity is never going to come again.

[00:50:33] John Ryan: This is China. Nobody goes there. U. S. bands don't really go there. That's very, rare. I think Tiny Moving Parts went or this year, and I was like flabbergasted to see it on their flyer. I think it's so awesome. again, that's me.

[00:50:46] John Ryan: Horse the Band did it. they used to go, they did like an insane global tour. They played cities and I couldn't believe. CDC. Heavy band from Doylestown, Pennsylvania. they did like Morocco, Madagascar years back. They [00:51:00] did a week in Israel. They did all these insane things that I was like, I'm so jealous that you're just booking these crazy things just because you can, like you're doing all this stuff that no one does.

[00:51:11] John Ryan: your bands might not be as big as some of these other more successful bands, but you're doing stuff that people wouldn't touch. I find that So much more exhilarating. So much more exciting. And England is clearly a normal place. People go all the time. I think I needed to scratch that

[00:51:32] John Ryan: I think I needed to get one scratched off in order to be like, alright. We're punching the card now, now that we've gone international, what can we do, where can we bring this band, I want to go play anywhere, I want to go to India and play there, our friend's band from Richmond, Sleave, they went and played India a couple years ago, it blew my mind, they were there for like two weeks, I was like, what's happening, how is this happening, I'm so proud of these guys, I'm so stoked for these guys, I want to do this, this is cool, but again, To each [00:52:00] their own.

[00:52:00] John Ryan: That is, at 37 years old, after, being in many bands and working for many bands, that is what would really fill my cup now. going to places that I haven't been, versus repeat places, and just trying more new things, because I just would like to continue to grow.

[00:52:17] John Ryan: Because I had a Period of time where I did very little growth as someone who is perpetually running away from their problems on tour I did very little growth for a long time So now I've finally stepped away from the old version of me and I'm like, need more I need new new experiences I need to keep seeing and finding new things. It's time.

[00:52:34] James: think that's a mic drop moment right there, John. That's summing it up and talking about growth. That's something that a lot of independent artists don't. Do And it's so unfortunate to see when amazing music out there and they're not going out there and doing it and I think that's one of the things I love about keep flying is You guys go and do it.

[00:52:50] James: So think that's a perfect place to uh, Mic drop it. But before we go if you have any final thoughts, I would love for you to share those

[00:52:57] John Ryan: Well, we did that sneeze clip earlier, [00:53:00] right so In conjunction with what I just said

[00:53:03] John Ryan: And at the expense of the haters and the folks who just would love to watch anybody fail versus go and do their own things and find their own moments. quite frankly put, fuck you. you, you simply aren't going to be able to tell me what I can and cannot do when it comes to where I'm at in life, specifically where I'm at with Keep Flying.

[00:53:31] John Ryan: I'm excited for new music. I'm excited for new tours. I'm excited and blessed with new opportunities to anyone who's willing to work with us in whatever capacity that is. I'm really unafraid and no longer phased by the past, because as I've been saying it every night on stage, you cannot get to the future if the past is still present, and I'm trying to live that straight up.

[00:53:55] John Ryan: I am trying to live that, so are all my bandmates, so are like minded friends like [00:54:00] yourself. There's no time left to waste. Had way too many people pass away in the last two years randomly. what if I'm next and I'm not an apocalypse person, but I certainly don't want to live in fear.

[00:54:10] John Ryan: So here we go. 2024 and beyond. I simply must entertain. I simply must perform music. I must create art, because that is my passion and I would like to pursue my passion more than ever before in my life. And that's it. Push on with the negative energy. It is sadly a waste of your time. Go out and do,

[00:54:31] John Ryan: whatever that is, as we said when we started the interview. Lean into the strengths and just go. Do it, live it, enjoy it while you can. So, do it now. Not next year. Do it now.

[00:54:44] James: boom that is a way

[00:54:45] James: to wrap it john. Thank you so much for coming on the show a second time It's been a pleasure to have you here This feels like such a cap to the podcast with us having one more episode, after this, which is just like a goodbye. So, hitting this episode, this is like, it's the growth, you know, [00:55:00] every episode is building up to this.

[00:55:01] James: And for those bands who listened to 200 episodes, it's like, hey, if you listened to those 200 episodes and you did all that, you might be ready to try an international tour

[00:55:10] John Ryan: Yeah.

[00:55:11] James: do what John and Keep Flying did.

[00:55:12] John Ryan: oh, you're ready.

[00:55:13] James: it's building up to it. It's all that growth. So that's why I'm so

[00:55:16] James: stoked to have you talk about this right now on this specific episode, which just really was a happy accident.

[00:55:22] James: So I'm stoked for that. Thank you,

[00:55:24] James: John. Keep flying band on Instagram and keep flying dot band is the website.

[00:55:29] John Ryan: yeah,

[00:55:29] John Ryan: I gotta, I don't know if we're gonna keep that or we're gonna try to change it up or something. People keep typing in keepflyingband. com. I gotta figure that out. I want to leave you with one thing here. If you're an artist of any kind, and you're doing the scroll on the internet gimmick, and you're saying, man, I can't believe so and so is doing that.

[00:55:48] John Ryan: Why aren't we, or why aren't I doing that? The answer is simply, it's you. You can. And I gotta tell you, James, that was, the final push for me to get us overseas. It was [00:56:00] seeing smaller bands, doing it even more DIY, and me going, wait a minute. Okay, if they're all going, we must go. This is the only person stopping us from going is me.

[00:56:10] John Ryan: We must go. We have to go. It's over. we're done. beating around the bush. And that is advice that I would tell you to any artist out there. If you are looking on the internet and you're just seeing other people and going, why not me? It's probably you just go and do it. That's it.

[00:56:23] James: that is top tier advice right there, John, man. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day. And happy holidays.

[00:56:29] John Ryan: Happy holidays, brother. Jim. Thank you, bro. See you this summer.

[00:56:33] James: See you then.