[00:00:00] James: Welcome to Episode 210 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross, and I help independent artists… This week, I'm joined on the show by the one, the only, Troy Millette. Not only is he the nicest guy in the Vermont music scene, he's also the biggest Swifty in the state. How's it going today, Troy?

[00:00:21] Troy: Better after that intro, I must say. Like,

[00:00:23] James: Oh, I'm glad. was working on that as I was getting ready. I was putting on my in ears, putting on the shirt. Fun fact, I don't actually always wear the red shirt. Like, as much as people who see me on TikTok or the podcast might believe, this is my podcast shirt. So I wear it for like one hour a week.

[00:00:37] James: That's just how I roll.

[00:00:38] Troy: So yeah, it's one of those things that I would never have considered wearing a specific wardrobe for a certain thing. But my buddy Andy James from the Owl Stars, he has a red flannel that he wears, and it's his TikTok shirt. He has like a TikTok character, even though it's just him,

[00:00:53] James: I might have to go after him for that trademark. Cause that's gonna be an issue.

[00:00:56] Troy: Yeah uh, sue him. Big. You know, local, local [00:01:00] musicians

[00:01:00] James: That's how to

[00:01:00] Troy: now that Spotify is Uh, You should really just go after those folks, for sure.

[00:01:05] James: That's really funny, because episode that I recorded yesterday, which comes out next week, if you can follow that mental math, listeners, I recorded it yesterday, but it comes out the week after this episode that I'm recording today, which is dropping on December 5th. So yesterday's episode comes out December 12th. If you're not confused yet, you will be by the time we get through this episode. But that episode was about Spotify and hitting the 1, 000 stream per year threshold so yeah. Have fun with that mental math and listen to the podcast next week if you're confused about what I was saying because you'll figure it out once I say it.

[00:01:37] James: Next week.

[00:01:38] Troy: I'm kinda confused on how we're gonna screw local bands now, if we need the future to do it in the past. I don't know, we're gonna have to, we're gonna really have to figure this out.

[00:01:46] James: Yeah. Point being, as I was getting ready… I was thinking about how am I going to introduce Troy in a way that's going to make him laugh and feel embarrassed slightly at the same time. And I was like, you know what? He's a nice guy, he's super easy to work with, and he loves Taylor [00:02:00] Swift. So let's just throw that out there.

[00:02:01] James: And it worked!

[00:02:02] Troy: In either, in either regard, I have the uncanny ability to just shake it off, is kind of what that comes down to.

[00:02:08] James: I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm going to have to sue you for trademark infringement because you're stealing my brand of… Terrible, terrible song puns.

[00:02:16] Troy: That's exactly what I came on this podcast to do. I don't even want to promote anything. I don't want to talk about anything else. I'm just trying to out dad joke.

[00:02:22] James: You heard it here, folks. It's a competition now. Anyway, Troy, you've been on the show twice in the past. First on episode 83, booking and playing 150 shows a year while working a day job with Troy Millette from Troy Millette and the Fire Below, which, real quick, we're recording this November 15th. Do you have a rough estimate of how many shows you've played this year so far?

[00:02:42] Troy: Well, so I just got some booking inquiries today, but I thought I was going to land at about 179, but it looks like I'll hit one 80.

[00:02:49] James: Okay, so you're stepping it up from when we did that episode two years ago.

[00:02:53] Troy: Yeah, like 30 more shows than any sane person should play a year. It's kind of… That should be the title of this [00:03:00] episode.

[00:03:00] James: Well, it's a good thing that we're actually going to be talking about, and I'm only making this joke because you opened up the floor for it. We're talking about… A benefit show that you're doing for Northwestern Counseling and Support Services.

[00:03:13] James: So if you're like Troy and you're playing way too many shows per year, go talk to Northwestern Counseling and Support Services. They can

[00:03:21] Troy: That was the best plug.

[00:03:23] James: right. I try. And I mean, like, I gotta say, just to put this out there for somebody who takes me seriously, I'm not making fun of mental health.

[00:03:29] James: But you opened up the floor for that joke. I had to,

[00:03:31] Troy: Yeah, no, we are in a hiring crisis across this country. So uh, send that application. Do

[00:03:36] James: yeah, there you go. And, uh,the other episode, cause this is Troy Mallette number three on the Band Hive podcast. So roughly once every 80 episodes is what it seems to be averaging out to.

[00:03:47] Troy: I just want to be uh, three times more frequent than you have Brian LeClaire from Better Things. That's

[00:03:52] James: that is technically happening. as of right now, but I might have to have him back on the show in like a week or two just to uh, make it. Two [00:04:00] thirds for him. One and a half times for you.

[00:04:02] Troy: I'm going to send you so many booking inquiries to the Bandhive podcast,

[00:04:05] James:

[00:04:05] James: Oh

[00:04:06] Troy: studio booker. So, you've just started a war you cannot win. no one's winning now.

[00:04:10] James: I'm turning into higher ground. You know every other email they get is Troy Mallette. Looking for bookings at Higher

[00:04:15] Troy: Absolutely. And ArchRiot, they've been debunked for two years. I still email them every week just to make sure.

 

[00:04:21] James: You're coming back, right? You're coming back? Cool. I'm opening the venue. I'm first.

[00:04:25] Troy: Yeah, me first. You know, you don't even need employees. I'll just make it happen, you

[00:04:28] James: Yeah, you'll run sound security. You'll do everything.

[00:04:32] Troy: Yes,

[00:04:33] James: Anyway, the other episode was number 175, Band Dynamics and Growth, Troy Millette on Authenticity and Opportunity in Music. And this episode, we're drifting away from both of those topics that we did, Because it's been a while since you've been on the show, can you give us a refresher of who you are, what you do, all that kind of stuff, for the lovely listeners who either didn't hear those episodes, or heard them, but it was so long ago, that… They forgot what the whole thing was about because it's been like two years.

[00:04:58] Troy: Yeah, I mean, if they haven't [00:05:00] listened to my other episodes, I really don't know what they're doing here. Like, you should pause right now. Go listen to those other episodes.

[00:05:05] James: I do agree with that. You can go to bandhive. rocks Slash 83 to hear the first one and bandhive. rocks slash 175 to hear the second one

[00:05:13] Troy: boom. My name is Troy. I sing and play in a band called Troy Molette and the Fire Below, which would be a very weird band name if I wasn't in it, but I'd be flattered. and we're a, folk rock band from Burlington. lot of original stuff covers, all that good stuff, and we tour regionally and uh, expanding our reach outward western in the United States, so.

[00:05:31] Troy: We're out and about. if you're uh, listening to BandHive and you haven't stumbled into us playing a grocery store grand opening or something, I don't know what you're doing here.

[00:05:39] James: And Bernie Sanders benefit perhaps yes

[00:05:41] Troy: He's one of my favorite eccentric people in Vermont, so.

[00:05:44] James: and are you really a Vermonter if you haven't run into Bernie Sanders just somewhere

[00:05:48] Troy: I was at a uh, like a hang with my college friends up for alumni weekend and they were making jokes about going to find Bernie Sanders. It's like, what are we up to next? They're like, we're gonna go find Bernie Sanders. I'm like, you guys don't just [00:06:00] see him like, in the streets, and we walk through City Hall Park, and sure as hell, he's there playing in the park with his grandkids,

[00:06:07] James: amazing.

[00:06:08] Troy: Yeah, I don't think we'll ever, I'll ever live it down.

[00:06:10] Troy: Yeah. Some people just think that's Vermont now, it's like we can see Ben and Jerry, Bernie and the guys from Guster, all in one trip around Burlington.

[00:06:18] James: And if you're lucky, the remaining half of fish.

[00:06:21] Troy: Yeah. it's whatever.

[00:06:22] James: exactly. That's, they're around.

[00:06:23] Troy: While eating fish food. Is, as well, so.

[00:06:26] James: Yeah, I'm more of a Cherry Garcia guy, to be honest. Have they made the vegan fish food yet? I know they have the vegan Cherry Garcia and it's really

[00:06:33] Troy: I don't know. The vegan ice cream, though, is solid. I didn't think I would like it, but at all the festivals around here, because Vermont is elite, you get the, like, free Ben Jerry's samples at the Ben Jerry's truck. The vegan flavors are good.

[00:06:45] James: And they taste exactly the same. And the funny thing is, the non dairy ice cream from Ben Jerry's is literally solid. You have to thaw it for a good two hours before you can scoop it. And that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but it's like at least 20 minutes.

[00:06:57] James: And there's other vegan ice creams that are not like that. But for [00:07:00] some reason the Ben Jerry's folks, they must have said, Hey. over texture. So this might be solid as a rock, but it tastes amazing. know, props to them, because flavor is what matters, really.

[00:07:09] Troy: It's true.

[00:07:09] James: it's so much better.

[00:07:11] Troy: you even remember what non vegan foods taste like when you eat their, like, vegan alternatives and all?

[00:07:16] James: Good question. I think so, but I can't be sure. I got poisoned last week. Long story short, I love Taco Cat down in Randolph, Vermont.

[00:07:25] Troy: Oh,

[00:07:25] James: But they hired somebody new. And this is totally off topic, and I promise we'll get to the actual episode soon. They hired

[00:07:31] Troy: poisonings over content.

[00:07:33] James: Oh, 100%, stories, gotta relate. hired somebody new. I'm sure she's wonderful. But Vincent, the venue owner, called in our order, and ordered a drenched burrito for me. Which is their burrito with enchilada sauce on And he said, no cheese. And the girl said, Oh, well that comes with queso on it. He said, no, that's smothered. We want drenched with enchilada sauce. Burrito shows up and I take one bite and I'm like, that's not enchilada sauce. That's queso. And so they were super chill. They remade it[00:08:00] brought the second one. so I tried that one and they looked exactly the same, but the taste and the texture were entirely different. Like, why would you make your queso look exactly like the enchilada sauce? don't get it,

[00:08:11] Troy:

[00:08:11] James: taste it. I was

[00:08:11] Troy: reason you wear the same red flannel on a podcast 210 times.

[00:08:15] James: came in around like episode 70. I want to say so fun fact. About that I did it because I noticed that TikTok likes my red shirt more than they like purple, yellow, green, blue, black, whatever other colors. Because all the videos I had that went viral, I was wearing this red flannel.

[00:08:34] James: Or a red flannel, because I have multiple, not gonna lie.

[00:08:37] Troy: So how do you know now which red flannel is more viral than the other red flannels?

[00:08:42] James: they're all 100 percent the same! I just have multiple red flannels from Amazon from the same seller, where I was like that's the red flannel, I'm gonna buy another one, I need a new one.

[00:08:51] Troy: It's like when they go through like 75 blue Imprezas to make a Fast and the Furious movie.

[00:08:56] James: Yeah,

[00:08:57] Troy: no one knows which car was where. [00:09:00] Right.

[00:09:00] James: dogs on TV shows, like. The TV show has been going for 20 years and they still have the same dog? No they don't. like 12 Fido's later.

[00:09:07] Troy: I love how animated shows will have the dog die so they can bring in a new dog before, like, sitcoms that feature, like, an actual dog. No, it's good times.

[00:09:15] James: Uh, And Brian on Family Guy is still kicking. Although I think he's died and come back, right? Like, that's, yeah.

[00:09:21] Troy: He's been resurrected. He died, like… I think that was towards the end of my uh, like, family guy, tenure as, like, a religious viewer.

[00:09:28] James: they kill off the dog, that's just it. You know, they've lost all inspiration.

[00:09:31] Troy: Right, you know, it's like, I have to be a real adult now and watch Yellowstone or whatever the fuck people care about that are

[00:09:37] James: suits.

[00:09:38] Troy: Yeah, suits, yeah, Mad Men. anything basically with a three piece suit or Brad Pitt, I'm allowed to watch.

[00:09:44] James: Yeah, I'm not gonna get into my Brad Pitt story, it's not that funny, but I'll tell you after the episode, cause it's kinda funny. Anyway, we're here to talk about, about a week and a half after this episode airs. You are doing a benefit concert at Higher Ground Music Hall in South Burlington, Vermont.

[00:09:59] James: It's in the Showcase [00:10:00] Lounge and it's called Home for the Holidays. Now this is really special, it's not the first one, it's the 11th one, but it's the first one at Higher Ground and it is to benefit Northwestern Counseling and Support Services and the CHILL Foundation. So, you started this in 2013. You've been doing this for 10 years already and you decided to do it in 11th time.

[00:10:44] Troy: So this year we kind of found ourselves in an interesting predicament, where we had outgrown our previous space. Fourteen Star Brewing in St. Albans has hosted and sponsored the event for, geez, at least six years, but probably been involved, beyond that in some capacity. I know Fourteen Star opened [00:11:00] 2014, and we were definitely there 15, 16.

[00:11:04] Troy: 14 is kind of like a lost year of finding out, like… we still in Fairfax or what had we done? so, we've kind of outgrown that space, not in the sense that we couldn't have the amount of people in this space that we needed to, but their venue doesn't allow for cover efficiently or a ticketed event efficiently, so we are applying to full rooms of 150, 200 people and donating next to nothing to these causes.

[00:11:27] Troy: And NCSS has been a beneficiary for the last four years. We've worked with Make A Wish before, and the American Cancer Society, and it was really important to me to get back to a place of financial stability, where we can not only raise awareness, but also contribute to these causes financially. Uh, And Higher Ground just has the infrastructure to make that happen.

[00:11:45] James: Yeah, so this was both growth out of necessity but also out of saying like let's take it to the next level and do this a little more officially I guess is what it comes down to,

[00:11:54] James: right?

[00:11:55] Troy: Yeah, I mean, dollars off each ticket are now going to both our beneficiaries. It also just [00:12:00] has the infrastructure of making it a quote unquote real show. It's not a holiday party. It's not an ugly sweater party. It is bands on a stage performing their art For the benefit of these causes which ups the ante and it's just one of those things that in 2013 I would have never fathomed that we could Justify even looking into hosting this event at Burlington's biggest club You know the first home for the holidays happened at a restaurant called the country pantry that had 40 seats

[00:12:26] Troy: and that was half of them, you couldn't see where we were performing.

[00:12:29] Troy: And so to go from that to being able to play higher ground where I've seen all my favorite bands is just amazing. it's one of those bittersweet things on how do we keep these people involved that have helped us get to here efficiently and how do we get back to giving back?

[00:12:42] Troy: We even did this event during COVID, which really kind of wiped all the funding we had to host this event. You know, carry over a little bit of funds each year just to make sure the event can be publicized and that you can print those posters and buy those raffle tickets. And we had planned a full in person event for 2021 [00:13:00] after going virtual in 2020 and a COVID outbreak moved us virtual again.

[00:13:05] Troy: Um, Which yeah, at that point, a lot of these businesses were not in a place to donate. Their time and their talents and their spaces and those accrued to real costs. And since then, with the space not allowing for us to charge 5 ahead with four of that going direct to the causes, found ourselves treading water the last few years.

[00:13:22] Troy: So we're hoping that this is a successful move, both in branding and presentation, but also with raising actual dollars and cents for these great organizations.

[00:13:31] James: Yeah, that's fantastic. I love to see artists who give back to their community, whether it's, you know, mental health or another aspect, like you mentioned, the American Cancer Society or Make A Wish. Those are all amazing causes. And it's really cool to see an artist who doesn't just give talk about these causes, but actually puts their money where their mouth is, or puts their fans money where their

[00:13:51] Troy: Right. I'll put your money where my mouth is. that's, uh, it's not sanitary, but it is effective, you know,

[00:13:58] James: policies.

[00:13:59] Troy: [00:14:00] actually, that's what killed, our original budget was money where mouths are. And then it's like, how do you sanitize this? You know?

[00:14:05] James: all that rubbing alcohol killed the budget.

[00:14:08] Troy: it's true. Yeah, it killed, it killed COVID and our budget. But not our momentum or our spirit.

[00:14:13] James: exactly. Well, and I mean, rubbing alcohol is technically a spirit, isn't it?

[00:14:16] Troy: Right. Yeah. Rubbing alcohol for your spirits. I don't know. Are there any kids that listen to the Band Hive podcast? don't be that guy like, mental health, but also if you need a cheap out for your holiday spirits

[00:14:27] James: Oh, no. Well, so that all said. It started as a holiday party, is what I'm getting the vibe here, and it started in a tiny venue that only 20 people could see the actual performances. How did the growth really come about before you got to Higher Ground? In the last 10 years, when you were doing it at the brewery, how did that all come about?

[00:14:46] James: How did it grow?

[00:14:47] Troy: Yeah, so there's something to be said for like the positive aura, right and it sounds so cheesy but I think that it got to a point where enough people were Having fun watching us have fun Around a microphone that it kind of became one of those [00:15:00] things that you want to be involved with again. So every December when this would roll around, we'd get messages from 14 star that wanted to host again.

[00:15:07] Troy: And we put the Facebook event out there and people wanted to come again and you want to up the ante, right? So it goes from, you know, Oh, my work holiday party is actually going to come be part of this event instead. And we're going to have 14 of us meet here you know, so it's the snowball effect, pun somewhat intended.

[00:15:23] Troy: also, I think there's just something to be said for, the genuine spirit of something like this, that it wasn't a marketing scheme, it was something we wanted to do because we wanted to get an excuse to get together and we're like, well, we have these people coming together, so why not use this platform to do some good?

[00:15:39] Troy: And I'm a really firm believer that if you have a platform of any stature to do something good, then you should. And, you know, we do a lot of merch donations because we're not the wealthiest band around, but that's a net zero when you're having one for one printing, and that's money donated, and that's helping lift people up in your community who want to see you succeed, but need your help [00:16:00] to succeed in that moment.

[00:16:01] Troy: And I just think a really powerful thing to have a platform of any size, and I think it's really empowering and really cool to be able to use it. And Home for the Holidays has kind of unexpectedly been a way for us to do that every year. And it just feels good to, you know, roll into those New Year's resolutions knowing, like, you know, I can mess it up the first 11 months and at least I can rectify in December and go in at a, clean slate.

[00:16:20] James: thing.

[00:16:21] Troy: that karma counter, you know.

[00:16:22] James: Yeah, that one good deed at the end of the year, that's all you need.

[00:16:26] Troy: It erases everything else. Like, I drive by people at the end of the highway and I splash them, but, that one uh, benefit. I don't actually do that.

[00:16:34] James: I would certainly hope not and expect that you don't, but it's good that you clarify because,

[00:16:39] Troy: the highways are very dry here usually,

[00:16:41] James: until they get snowy.

[00:16:42] Troy: Right, well that's, we're just talking about rain, we're not talking about

[00:16:45] James: Well, the thing. Troy also drives a snowplow. I don't know if anyone knew this. So, all of a sudden, if you see somebody's, like, feet sticking out of the snowbank, You can thank Troy for that one.

[00:16:54] Troy: yeah

[00:16:55] James: getting back on track, Trita's not actually down at Plow, is what we're getting back to, sorry.

[00:16:59] Troy: [00:17:00] Drive a mom car, I do. I have the most effective musician car, and least effective Tinder dates with.

[00:17:07] James: well at least it's not a panel van with no windows.

[00:17:10] Troy: That is true, yeah. But then I could like do my touring and I could paint houses. Same vessel, you know.

[00:17:16] James: It's true.

[00:17:17] Troy: Multifunctional.

[00:17:18] James: a job you enjoy. So I

[00:17:20] Troy: Yeah, I do.

[00:17:20] James: there you go. And it lets you play 180 shows a year.

[00:17:22] Troy: It does. As seen on episode 301 of the Band Hive podcast.

[00:17:27] James: Close! 83! Find it at bandive. rocks slash 83.

[00:17:31] Troy: No, this was me plugging that I want to be on episode 301 as well.

[00:17:35] James: Oh, got it. Yeah, 301. Okay, hold on.

[00:17:37] Troy: For people who don't believe it, I am doing this. And in a minute, I'm going to be able to tell Troy what the release date of that episode will be.

[00:17:44] James: Ha,

[00:17:45] Troy: a

[00:17:45] Troy: good James rant about something that. I'm potentially not doing as well as I could on my drive somewhere. Cause it's like, Oh, I have 18 minutes. I'm going to throw on a BandHive podcast. At first, like the intro to man, I feel like a woman in the BandHive podcast [00:18:00] intro. I could kick a fucking door off its hinges when I hear it, like it gets me ramped.

[00:18:03] James: I'm gonna send you that 30 second intro so you can put it on your iTunes shuffle, your iPod Nano, whatever you're rocking these

[00:18:09] Troy: if I decide to work out ever, it'll just be loops of the BandHive podcast

[00:18:14] James: Fantastic. Alright, episode 301. you might want to think a little lower, maybe in like the 260s range, that would be about a year from now.

[00:18:21] Troy: Okay. Yeah. That's, seems practical.

[00:18:23] James: so you'll be back on like 27, something like that.

[00:18:27] Troy: actually, Troy, you mentioned you love a good James rant. favorite thing that happened in the last week was when you hit me up and you're like, Can I ask you a question?

[00:18:35] James: And I said, yeah, what is it? you asked if a certain episode was about a certain person. And I said, yes, that's a hundred percent about that person.

[00:18:43] James: That just made me so happy. I'm like, Hey, I didn't name them, but people knew, which I expected and I hope for. So thank you

[00:18:51] Troy: one of those things yes, I validated that rant was directed at the target audience. I think is what I did. it's one of those things,

[00:18:58] James: that the target audience will never listen to this [00:19:00] podcast because they don't care enough to actually put in the effort for their music,

[00:19:03] Troy: right. And it's

 

[00:19:04] James: because I wish they would. The music's not bad. But you have to put in effort. And if you don't put in effort, you're just gonna whine about Spotify stealing your royalties because you can't get it a thousand streams, even though it's actually really easy.

[00:19:15] James: Listen to episode 211 next week to find out how.

[00:19:18] Troy: Yeah. It's one of those things that if I had a nickel for every time I've told someone that the music business, not the music. You could have the best product in the world. You know, I'm a firm believer that some of the best songwriters, best instrumentalists never leave the basement. You know what I mean?

[00:19:32] Troy: They're sitting in their den, they're jamming in their dad bands and they never set foot on a venue. Because is the part that is draining and I understand that. if you can put a different lens on it and you can treat the progress and the kind of rigmarole of, being a band leader in the sense of how do we make this thing financially feasible, how do we get on the road and not come home five K per person in the hole?

[00:19:54] Troy: You know,

[00:19:54] Troy: it's a different art form and it's a different lens, but it's equally as important. And within those [00:20:00] lenses there are general and kind of unspoken kindnesses you can have. And I think sometimes I hear you fired up about something that's just kind of like an unspoken rule of like, do yourself and the people who are trying to help you a favor, and show them this kind of respect and kindness, and we shouldn't have to have this conversation.

[00:20:16] Troy: So admire a good James Ramp for that reason, every now and again.

[00:20:19] James: What really upset me was, My friend wanted to help this person out. So they asked that person to play the show. And that person just basically gave him the finger. And they probably don't realize that they were doing it, But that is 100 percent what they did. you want to hear the full story, With all the juicy details that were made publicly available in a Facebook group called DIY Burlington, Bandhive.

[00:20:52] James: rocks slash 206,

[00:20:54] Troy: Yeah, and it's too bad too, because I feel like more often than not, the people in this scene, in the Burlington specifically,[00:21:00] really kind. Really hard working. You know, there is even in bands outside of our demographic, which I think the folk rock thing kind of lends itself to the uh, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, you know, rolled sleeves and hard working thing.

[00:21:12] Troy: think that's the general demeanor of most working bands in our scene. So it's a real bummer when you meet kind folks with good content who don't put courtesies of being a band leader. And of being a brand ambassador the end of the day. It's disrespectful for the people who are trying to bring you along on their ride.

[00:21:32] James: and ultimately, they're just hurting themselves. that's what it comes down to is if you act selfish and lazy, people are going to think you're selfish and lazy, whether it's intentional or not, it doesn't matter. That's the vibe people will read off of you, and then you're going to get fewer and fewer opportunities.

[00:21:48] James: And if you have a victim mindset, which many of these people do, not everyone, then you're going to internalize that. And start complaining about, Oh, like, these other people have so many more opportunities, and it's because [00:22:00] of XYZ thing about me. It's like, missed the mark. It's because you seem selfish and lazy.

[00:22:05] James: If you weren't selfish and lazy, people would love to give you more opportunities. But that's, all aside. We're here to talk about happy things, Troy. Happy things,

[00:22:13] Troy: well it kind of goes,

[00:22:15] James: rant.

[00:22:15] Troy: it kind of goes hand in hand because chatting briefly for the two seconds we were chatting before we hopped on the recording. been really fortunate with curating up from below with Higher Ground and for having home for the holidays you know, Franklin County at 14 star and now at higher ground to kind of be able to give like a hand up to some of my favorite artists that reality of the situation might just be that they don't have the connections to get on that stage at higher ground.

[00:22:40] Troy: You know, this is a really cool opportunity for me to give my friends and people that I think there are is really amazing, but they're not playing in the same circles as as the fire below or. They might just never had that opportunity to share a bill, or they had the opportunity and COVID ran through town and ruined their Higher Ground opening slot.

[00:22:57] Troy: my buddy Andy James, he plays in the Owl Stars, [00:23:00] and he was supposed to open my first headlining show at Higher Ground. And he fell on a patch of ice and broke his ankle and had ankle surgery the day of the show instead. So we've been chasing an opportunity to like, get our bands on stage at Higher Ground together.

[00:23:12] Troy: And he's one of my biggest sounding boards for when I write a new song. He's arguably the first person that gets it. You know, he like he gets the crappy voice memo version and It's really cool to be able to curate those moments and have a platform to do so but the reciprocity of that is I've seen this event in my feed so much every single band on this bill is sharing this event daily multiple times from personal and business pages because they appreciate That whether I was in a position to give them an opportunity that they couldn't have otherwise got themselves.

[00:23:40] Troy: That's besides the point. There's this opportunity here and there's an opportunity for everybody on this bill, the fire below included, to make it something really special that a lot of people get to witness and be a part of with us. And would be a disservice to this event and to the causes that we've tacked on to this event not at least tell people that we're excited and tell people why they.

[00:23:59] Troy: and should [00:24:00] be excited about it as well. So, appreciate that we have a crew of people working on these events and most of the Fire Below, co bills that people are really excited to,do those shows and see that we're excited to have them doing those shows and, put the work in on social media to make sure their fans and friends and family know about it.

[00:24:14] James: Yeah. Absolutely. And that's one of the other things too. It's, first of all, it's great to hear that everyone is. If somebody weren't, I know that you would not give them another opportunity because if they're not going to help make the show as a whole, a success, why would you invite them back?

[00:24:30] Troy: Well, and it's still hard. Yeah. And it's so hard because. As a band, for whatever reason, you know, I, I do believe that I've worked hard and the Fire Below has worked hard to get the opportunities and the gigs that we do. there was ten other bands that I would love to invite to play home for the holidays. The stage time doesn't exist. You know, there's only three bands, there's only three slots that we could invite. So I had to pick three bands from a pool of fifteen bands that I'd love to spend a Thursday in December with. So, if you're not willing to… to promote, you know, doesn't affect how I view you as a person.

[00:24:59] Troy: It doesn't [00:25:00] affect our friendship, but as a business owner, which is the reality of having a band at any substantial level, ticket numbers count that counts to higher ground. matters to me that we played a people and not 10, you know, so it does matter. So yeah, the reality of that situation isn't even that I don't want to give you a second chance that The slots are fleeting, and if you weren't willing to put the effort in, maybe one of these other 15 bands that I like just as much is willing to put that effort in.

[00:25:25] Troy: becomes tough.

[00:25:26] James: 100%. And then you also have to think about that higher ground is going to notice who's promoting and who isn't. So if they see somebody who put in a ton of effort, they might pull that person for another show in the future. They see somebody who isn't. Did not do anything. Guess who's not getting invited back to higher ground ever again.

[00:25:42] James: And quite potentially, if somebody else wants to build a bill and put that band on there, higher ground is going to say, no, not them. Like they're not coming back here. Sorry.

[00:25:50] Troy: I've had experiences, not directly with our headlining shows, but of, hey, do you think that these people put more effort in than they did the last time? And as you know, being in the industry at various levels, as long as you [00:26:00] have, second opportunities are lightning striking twice. You know, you earn a second opportunity.

[00:26:05] Troy: If you're given one, you should capitalize. But unfortunately, like Higher Ground, again, there are the most predominant venue in Vermont, and there's only so many slots. If they have 3, 000 bands that they would love to have, they're only hosting about 150 shows a year. the spots are fleeting.

[00:26:21] Troy: You know, why would they give, band X, Y, and Z? Who failed to make an Instagram post, which costs zero dollars, takes almost zero minutes. When they couldn't be bothered to do that, why would we be bothered to make your show happen? You know, and that's the reality. Whether you deserve that or not.

[00:26:35] Troy: And I get things happen, and I get that gigs are, you know, you have other things you need to promote down the line of, I can't promote this show in January because I have these three things in November. Like, I get it, but there's ways to creatively sprinkle it in there and at least show that you're Attentive and you're aware that you have this coming

[00:26:51] James: Yeah, and you know, you could make it single post in four months like That would be better than nothing. It would still not be enough, but it's better than nothing.

[00:26:58] Troy: Also like your Facebook [00:27:00] event sections and your website tour show listings, you would be surprised how many people are actually paying attention to that, you know, and there's ways to manipulate the perception of that so that the cream rises to the top, right? Like, oh, this show needs a boost I'm intentionally not posting about shows in 2024 yet.

[00:27:16] Troy: Because we have a big show at Higher Ground to end 2023. It's not that I don't care about those 2024 shows. It's that I then have two weeks after this event to highlight this stuff we have coming up. And probably another week, I'm off for a little bit. So probably mid January. So it's like I have a full month after this show to dedicate my attention to the next show.

[00:27:34] Troy: And that's intentional. And I understand that. But when it's just negligence to post, that grinds my gears. Why can I not find your stuff? I want to come support you. Regardless of how, like, bands that might be expecting you to pull your weight promoting, or want to see you succeed, as a fan, if I can't find your stuff, that's frustrating. Still.

[00:27:51] James: It's terrible. And I've done that. I was like, I want to go see this band. Oh, they played here yesterday. They didn't make a single post about it. I would have gone. Oh, [00:28:00] okay. And then I just don't care anymore because the next time it's like don't want to. be following this band that I'm always gonna miss because they never talk about it until they post Oh, that was a sick show last time!

[00:28:10] James: Cool! I would have liked to be there. But you didn't make a single post about it. So,

[00:28:14] Troy: I had no idea you were here. Yeah.

[00:28:16] James: exactly.

[00:28:16] Troy: I mean, you work at a, venue size I don't know if you namedrop, the,

[00:28:20] James: The Underground? Oh yeah, that's fine.

[00:28:22] Troy: really cool venue, but. Every ticket matters. You know what I mean? It's like, the town government of venues in the sense that it's a really professional, really cool space, but it's really small.

[00:28:33] Troy: So every head in that place counts. Every ticket sold is one for the good guys. And you get to see, and I think that playing shows like that in venues that do it right matters because, you know, it can feel so easy to be swallowed up by these big venues. Oh, well, they're, you know, no one cares because there's going to be people there anyway.

[00:28:50] Troy: They're playing so and so brewery, like, you can't even go in there on a Wednesday. It's so packed, like, why do they care if I'm there? a place like the Underground or the Showcase Lounge at Higher Ground or Nectar's even, like,[00:29:00] those venues, everybody in there matters and is a contributing factor to the success of that show and that band being able to perform there again.

[00:29:07] Troy: And I think it's really cool to see that, but it's clear that some bands haven't figured that out or experienced it firsthand.

[00:29:12] James: Absolutely. And it's so cool to take a space like The Underground The first sellout show we had there Mainly I'm the sound engineer But I also do promote shows Like maybe a handful a year tops. I think I've done three or four this year so far but we're doing one maybe two at the end of December for something really special and Our first sellout last year was literally just two kids from the town who are phenomenal musicians named Cobalt and Titian and Everyone in town basically came to see them.

[00:29:43] James: Friends, family, like, yeah, exactly. We wanted Coquette, but their bass player wasn't able to make it. And that was our first sellout there, and it was really special. And we did not charge enough for tickets, and I wanted to charge more this year. And they were like, no, that feels scummy. I'm like, But [00:30:00] guys, and we are charging a little more, but not as much as I wanted to, like, if you can move 50 tickets at 10, you can move 50 at 17, and they're like, we're not doing more than 15.

[00:30:08] James: I'm like, okay, that's fair. We'll do 15 advance, 17 day of, how's that? Or I think 15 to 18, something like that. But the time this episode comes out, that show will be announced. And I'm really excited to have them back, because it's going to be such a special night, and looking forward to doing it a second time in that space.

[00:30:24] James: And… The venue is billed as a listening room. It's called the underground listening room, and it's not at all a listening room in the traditional sense that you go there, you sit down and you shut up like it's not like that, it's not a bar. We don't have a liquor license. We don't serve alcohol. It is B.

[00:30:39] James: Y. O. B. It's a venue and for a 49 cap room to be a venue first. It's like, unheard of, but you walk in there, we had a band last Friday, who played a really professional venue. And they came to the Underground, which is this tiny venue, and we have a great system, don't get me wrong. But it's not a great system [00:31:00] compared to, like, a super professional venue that hosts 300 shows a year or something,

[00:31:04] Troy: Yeah, you're not walking into a House of Blues, you know, QSC sponsored house rig.

[00:31:09] James: We have uh, Yamaha monitors. Which, I mean, they do the trick, they get loud, but we don't have QSC or JBL monitors, you know? And literally after the show, I said to the band, like, Hey, that was night and day from last time I saw him. That was fantastic. And they said, Oh, yeah, well, the sound here was so much better.

[00:31:27] James: I'm like, Huh. Good to know. Like, That's because we actually care about the shows that we're putting on here. And I gotta give huge credit to Vincent, like, He built the space out it used to be a messenger bag manufacturing space. So he built the stage, he got a PA system, he did all the hard work, and I just show up and plug stuff in and turn it on.

[00:31:47] James: he does all the hard work, so credit to Vincent Freeman from The Underground. If you're in central Vermont and need a recording studio, The Underground is also a phenomenal recording studio. All that said… No matter what you're doing, there are going to be challenges. And I know Troy, one [00:32:00] of the challenges you faced was you're going into a space that you can't sell tickets for.

[00:32:04] James: So that's why you moved to higher ground. So you can actually sell tickets now. What were some of the other challenges that you picked up on through home for the holidays and how did you resolve those challenges?

[00:32:15] Troy: Yeah, I mean, the weather in Vermont, the time of year we host this show, has been a huge obstacle. I can think of at least three years off the top of my head that we've either lost performers because the weather was unsafe for them to travel from where they were at, or had to postpone the event.

[00:32:30] Troy: Last year we had to move the event from… around this time to, January, which we lost a huge demographic of people with the kind of camaraderie and spirit of everybody's here for the holiday. Um, Now granted, this is not a holiday concert. I make that very clear.

[00:32:43] Troy: There's always one person every year. That's like, they didn't do Christmas music. It's like, well, yeah, no, we actually named the event after a song called home that was on my first record. It was kind of a pun on that whole thing. And then we don't play it. Ever. Anymore. So it's kind of lost that allure.

[00:32:58] Troy: The event has outlasted the tune [00:33:00] that it was an homage to. Sound when you start adding all these pieces, you know, you want to keep costs low but quality high. And we've been really fortunate to work with a guy named Dave Stetson, who did the best he could with a big, boomy brewery space.

[00:33:12] Troy: But it is flying in a system and doing it for this one event. They don't have house gear. And it is quick changeover. You know, some of these builds in the past have been six, seven bands. Um, so we moved to a, layout at 14 Star where we were doing acoustic bands, like in the back corner while bands were setting up on the main stage so that there was no gap.

[00:33:31] James: A and B stages.

[00:33:32] Troy: yes, but in a space that's, you know. 1400 square feet or whatever, you know, so it becomes it becomes a lot Retaining fans when they didn't pay to get in, you know that is a literal buy in You know if people spend money on something they dedicate and themselves to it for an evening feel like you can Put on your best display and we did have problems with people getting to you know An hour into the event and just being like well, it's getting crowded in here I'm gonna leave, you know people who wanted to see the show weren't because The environment [00:34:00] wasn't right for them.

[00:34:01] Troy: we got a lot of questions of hey, how are you donating to these causes when I walked in here, drank, tipped my bartender and left I didn't give you a single dollar. And the reality of that situation was a lot of the time we weren't. We were getting to donate money from a very specific pool of large donors. you know, you want people who leave an event like that to feel like they contributed because they did their presence and their actual dollars contribute to the things that were there to support. we just kind of lost that allure. in that space, unfortunately, because 14 star has been a great support andthey're still on board this year as a, presenting sponsor of this event.

[00:34:32] Troy: So, that was important to me to keep the collaboration of folks who have really helped This band and this specific event, to not cut people out as something goes up, the chain here. And we've gotten a lot of good feedback about the change of perception of this event being, playing an MTV Unplugged set.

[00:34:47] Troy: We are playing two covers, maybe? the rest are going to be stories and like acoustic versions of our songs, of Fire Below songs. And we're confident that in that venue, in that space, we can present that show and people are sticking [00:35:00] around. We don't need to jam. Mr. Jones as a set opener to hope that we catch people who were gonna finish their drinks and head home But oh, well, maybe this band will play more stuff like this, you know It definitely changes the perception what this event is in a way that I hope is really positive and I hope that everybody else on the bill is Excited for as well

[00:35:17] James: Yeah, I'm excited to see that. I've seen so many different iterations of your band by now, but I've never seen full band acoustic. So that'll be new and I'm excited for that. Now, as far as other artists, clearly this is something you're really passionate about. If another artist has a cause that they're passionate about, and they want to do something like this, how do you think they should get started?

[00:35:36] Troy: this feels like my middle school coach mentality, but The best way to get involved is to get involved. You know, there are so many organizations just here in Vermont, wherever you're listening to this, in your local communities, you can find a space that would love to take your money.

[00:35:51] Troy: And also, more than likely, is really interested in how you are already being a champion of your community by existing and being a positive creative [00:36:00] force. These folks are so open to collaboration. I've loved working with Chill Foundation and Northwestern Counseling. kind of champion The Fire Below as a band that does right by them.

[00:36:09] Troy: I say send the Facebook message. Send the DM. Figure out what you can do to help. start with something low Put merch table with some pamphlets. I see it all the time that Higher Ground will donate a buck from a ticket sales. That has nothing to do with an affiliated charity.

[00:36:24] Troy: One dollar to charity, and at the bottom it's like, this is going to, Susan B. Komen, or what, you know, whatever it might be. You know, start with something low stakes, and then let it evolve. Don't be afraid to ask for information, and don't be afraid to ask people to, kind of collaborate, even if you know, you think they might not be interested.

[00:36:40] Troy: Because more than likely they are.

[00:36:41] James: Yeah, and a lot of charities will take really whatever they can get. I mean, after the flood, which you did a flood benefit you mentioned you did benefit merch releases. One of them was for the flooding in Vermont. And we did a similar thing at the underground. Got really lucky with how it came together.

[00:36:56] James: I won't go into all the details, but we ended up sending [00:37:00] I think it was over 450, I can't remember, quote me on this, but Vincent sent a good amount of money to, Vermont Arts Council because they had a specific flood relief grant for artists who lost equipment or income because of the flood.

[00:37:15] James: And it's all because were given a contact at National Life who covered the entire cost of the room and the production for that night. So, 100 percent of every single ticket, minus the fees that our ticketing provider took, went to Vermont Arts Council. Which was really great, we have no costs, so whether we sell this show out or nobody buys tickets, we're covered.

[00:37:38] James: Like, we have the sponsor for the event, thank you. Vincent, he's a super nice guy, even donated a little bit on top, just because he's a class act. and so Vermont Arts Council was so thankful, they sent somebody out to talk, and this was before they even knew how much they were going to get.

[00:37:53] James: They just said, hey, we have somebody in Randolph, cause I asked, do you have somebody that you want to have them say a few words? like, yeah, [00:38:00] please, like, we'll send this person, what time does she have to be there? I'm like, cool, let's have her out right before the headliner. Cause we run shows early at The Underground and I love it.

[00:38:07] James: That's like, show's over by 10? Sweet, I'll be home before midnight.

[00:38:11] Troy: The event integration, you know, once, you get to a level two, like, That was one thing that sometimes I feel like the perception is, well, we don't want to bum people out. It's like, no, people are there because they're interested in these causes and like, things are hard and, circumstances can be non ideal but, you know, it's important that people get to tell their stories and use that platform as well.

[00:38:29] Troy: Like I said earlier, if you have a platform, use it. It doesn't matter the size of that platform. we're really excited, same thing, to have folks from CHILL. and NCSS there to explain where those dollars go. And uh, the same way I try to believe that most people are inherently good, I have this perhaps sometimes naive mindset that most people inherently want to help.

[00:38:49] Troy: And, I think that's a good mindset to have when you approach this. You know, not under the impression that we're going to be able to put 60 kids on the mountain with chill through this event. Yeah. [00:39:00] Fund two new housing programs for NCSS, but I'm a firm believer that it's going to help and That mindset probably comes from the first year we donated to Northwestern Counseling.

[00:39:09] Troy: I had a very lofty goal and We, undershot it and in my email, which was still a substantial sum of money I'm sorry, it wasn't more and the email response I got back was this is You know, whatever it was, 22 pairs of shoes for a kid that didn't know where they were going to get them. This is, heating for three months at a residential house.

[00:39:29] Troy: You know, and whatever it was. To see those breakdowns of the direct difference that that sum of money can mean, that would have felt good if This put shoes on one person who wasn't going to have them. You know, this is one tank of gas for a family that wasn't sure how they were going to pay their bills and now they can get to work next week, that feels good and you should take pride in that and you should also uh, you know, not take it for granted. And I think that giving your art and giving your time very easy once you feel comfortable in your own skin to do so.

[00:39:57] James: And I love that and I was about to ask about what are [00:40:00] your highlights from this event over the years and I think that is a fantastic highlight right there that you covered.

[00:40:05] Troy: Yeah, it's,

[00:40:06] James: direct impact that you can make with these events.

[00:40:08] James: And I love seeing.

[00:40:28] Troy: it's so cool to see that. that's why these dollars are important. That's why this event is important. That's why. Telling five new people who might not really grasp what these organizations do. Being able to pick up a pamphlet and thumb through it for 60 seconds.

[00:40:41] Troy: And now we'll drop that change in that canister at the gas station. Because they get it. You know, there's a face to the name. There's awareness. The conversation is starting. sounds like a walking billboard of an after school special. But having tough conversations. And recognizing that there are supports and organizations out there is half the battle.

[00:40:59] Troy: if [00:41:00] nothing else, I am super proud that I get to put the CHILL logo and the NCSS logo on 500 posters and hang them up and hope that 15 people are like, what are those organizations? And type it into their phones. That's a win for me. And I hope we get to do much more But that's worth the time and the effort for me.

[00:41:16] James: Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to say as we kind of wrap things up here, putting up posters still works, people. Just do it. Do it.

[00:41:24] Troy: It's a pain in the ass, but it does work.

[00:41:26] James: it's awful. Especially in winter. Your hands are like freezing to the staple gun and like, dunk! gun's frozen now too. Well, guess I'm gonna hammer this in!

[00:41:35] Troy: Yes. No, it's uh, the episode with Brian was great. Because those, like, primary and supplementary forms of advertising a show, like, the lines are very thin, but there are just tried and true methods that work. I love seeing it work for folks who put the effort in, and think that Better Things show is a

[00:41:51] Troy: Great example. I was actually given some time to an organization myself that night. Otherwise I would have been at that show. But, yeah, hang the posters. Post on your [00:42:00] social media. Hang the posters on your digital wall and physical walls. important. It is. You know, I would be so amazed. to be that guy that puts a survey monkey out on a show that's like, How did you hear about this?

[00:42:11] Troy: That fascinates me.

[00:42:12] James: Oh, QR code.

[00:42:14] Troy: Yeah.

[00:42:14] James: but here's what you Yeah. Say you're entered for a free shirt. If you do this survey,

[00:42:20] Troy: And it's, it will take you 10 seconds. maybe I'll do it. I was kind of like, it would be cool if people did this. It's like, well, you, could.

[00:42:26] James: Yeah. totally could. I love that idea. I'm glad you mentioned it.

[00:42:30] Troy: I'm a genius. you'll find out more on episode 301.

[00:42:32] James: Yeah. Or 227 or whatever it ends up being. Which on a side note, episode 204 is the one we did with Brian and it was called Getting Creative with Marketing. Brian LeClair of Better Things.

[00:42:43] Troy: Great dude. Great business mind. it's always like one of those things that kind of gets me excited when you see someone who like, has a clear vision, takes the steps to get there, but also is just a true blooded creative type as well, because they are rare animals.

[00:42:57] James: Yeah, and we actually, we know each other because of Brian, [00:43:00] so there's that tie in as well.

[00:43:01] Troy: At a benefit concert, I believe,

[00:43:02] James: it was, yeah, which you put together in a baseball field in Fairfax, Vermont, you

[00:43:07] Troy: kind of got the bug for doing that. that's how I decided to spend the summer, the last few weeks before I went to college. I was organizing this benefit concert. I had gone to Relay for Life and decided that not enough people cared.

[00:43:18] Troy: Specifically at my age at that time, you know, now that I'm like almost 30, people are aware that they should care and they do, but not a lot of 19 year olds cared about donating money to American Cancer Society, so I took it on as my mission.

[00:43:29] James: Yeah, hey, you did a good job and here you are. Uh, that was 2013. Yeah.

 

[00:43:34] Troy: Yeah. Right at the same year I was home for the holidays,

[00:43:36] James: Well. On that note, you're listening on the day this episode drops, which is uh, December 5th, the show is in nine days. It's Thursday, December 14th. If you're listening at any point before December 14th, come to Vermont.

[00:43:48] James: Visit us. Go see Home for the Holidays at Higher Ground Music, which I believe music starts at 6. 30, so doors at 6, is that correct?

[00:43:55] Troy: Yeah, nice early night. it's a school demographic, you know, working class folks. [00:44:00] So, I'm so excited. Like I mentioned both on and off the air, like Chris and Erica and the All Stars are some of my oldest friends in the industry. I love Craig Mitchell. I've been wanting to work with Craig in some capacity, for years.

[00:44:11] Troy: he sat in with us this summer. Um, And it's always kind of a spontaneous thing. So to get on a bill and have him do the acoustic Prince thing, I'm stoked for it. So. Really excited.

[00:44:20] James: Fantastic. Alright, Troy, well thank you so much for coming back on the show for uh, appearance number three, and here's looking forward to appearance number four sometime before Brian LeClaire gets to appearance number two, which may or may not happen. But I'm also looking forward to seeing a video of you drowning in toothbrushes because you ordered far too many, or they sent you many, many blank toothbrushes by accident.

[00:44:41] Troy: was my favorite thing on the internet for over a week.

[00:44:45] James: Oh, same. That was so good

[00:44:46] Troy: And the production cut on the video of the longing like he looked beyond the lens as he's like having this existential conversation about what someone does with you know, some C quality toothbrushes.

[00:44:57] James: premium quality, unbranded [00:45:00] toothbrushes.

[00:45:00] Troy: Yes. Amazing.

[00:45:02] James: All right. Try it, man. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and we'll talk soon.

[00:45:05] Troy: You too. Thanks, James.