[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 206 of the Bandhive Podcast.
[00:00:04] James: It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross, and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the show, I am going to help you tour smart by not touring stupid, or even not being a local stupid, because as much as I hate it, sometimes I see a local artist Make a move that is so mind bogglingly stupid that I have to turn into Glenn Fricker For a moment. That's why in this episode, it's going to be extreme. It's going to be beyond my get it together bands attitude. This comes from a place of pure rage. Let's set the scene. My friend's band is playing a reunion show at a major venue here in Vermont. And it's their first time headlining this venue.
[00:00:48] James: In fact, by the time this episode airs mid November or early November, that show will have happened. And I'm sure it's gonna be fantastic, I'm really looking forward to it, I'm recording this on October 4th, so we have a ways to go before that show, but, [00:01:00] you know, perks of being, like, 6 weeks ahead on the podcast.
[00:01:03] James: I'm not gonna name names because my friend doesn't want to burn any bridges with other acts, and I get that so I'm gonna respect that even though everything I'm gonna talk about here today is public information.
[00:01:12] James: It was literally posted in a Facebook group and Everything comes down to booking shows now to set the stage. My friend is playing this show and They invited several other artists to the bill. Artists who they thought would be a great fit for the bill and were deserving of the opportunity.
[00:01:31] James: Unfortunately, it seems that, in at least one case, my friend could not have been more wrong. And apologies, sometimes, you know, it happens to all of us. So I'm not calling you out for booking the wrong person or making this mistake. You had faith in this person, and this person betrayed that faith. one of the acts, in fact, the opener of the show, the very first band, who is relatively unknown, I had never heard of them until this show was announced, did absolutely nothing to promote the show.
[00:01:55] James: It's been announced for a few months now, and this artist has not made a single post, not [00:02:00] even when it was first announced. Just complete radio silence. Now, last week, which is, again, just three or four weeks before the actual show, the opener decided that it would be a great idea to announce a record release party at a tiny venue for seven days before this big show.
[00:02:18] James: They've posted about that show at least three times since they announced it. So tell me what's wrong here. They haven't posted about the big show at all, where they're opening and want to set a good impression, or should want to set a good impression. Which is going to burn bridges with, of course, the headliner, but also the venue, because the venue will notice that.
[00:02:35] James: And venues and promoters look out for who's going to bring people. That's how you get booked and if you're not gonna bring people because you decide that you don't want to promote You're shooting yourself in the foot. So don't be that person who says oh, yeah I'm just you know Gonna sign up for this big show and bring zero value to the bill because ultimately Any real music venue, a venue that relies on people coming in for the band [00:03:00] rather than people coming in to get drunk, is going to look for acts that will make the effort to bring people through that door.
[00:03:07] James: So if you get booked at one of these venues, any legitimate venue, and you do absolutely nothing, you are an idiot. You are not furthering your career in any way, and you are actively destroying any chance of a relationship with that promoter, with that venue, or with that headlining band. And potentially also the other bands on the bill, because they're probably gonna notice too.
[00:03:28] James: I'm not playing this show, and I noticed just by seeing a list of shows in a Facebook group. And I was like, hey, that's a dumb move. I'm gonna make a podcast episode about it, so here we are. now again, going back, this record release party this artist is playing is at a tiny venue.
[00:03:44] James: It can literally hold maybe their family, and that's it. But they're promoting it as if it's the biggest thing ever. versus actually putting an effort to promote their show at the nicest club in the state. If somebody asks you to open a show, they want you there because they expect that you're going to bring at least a few people.
[00:03:59] James: [00:04:00] They're not just giving you an opportunity for free. Unless it's already sold out, which in that case, hey, have fun. It's sold out, that's fantastic, and it's an amazing opportunity. But if it's not sold out, you better be adding value to that bill. And your music, I'm sorry, does not add value.
[00:04:16] James: Not in the eyes of the venue, the promoter, or the headliner who asked you to play that bill. So, why is this so bad? Well, it's incredibly rude to the band and the venue and everyone else on the bill. Because when you agree to play a show, like I was saying, you're expected to bring some value. You have an obligation to promote that show enough. And ignoring that is bad enough. But then announcing your own headlining show for just seven days, one week, before the big show?
[00:04:44] James: and you're promoting that show a lot? that adds insult to injury, and it's not cool. Now, this is why a lot of larger venues or promoters will have radius clauses. It's this exact Reason, and to be entirely honest, [00:05:00] I'm a massive advocate for any venue over 50 cap Having a radius clause to prevent people from doing something as stupid as this I don't care if you play a tiny bar 20 times That's fine.
[00:05:13] James: If you're gonna play a legitimate venue that holds 300 people in this example Well, guess what? You probably shouldn't play any other shows within about two months before or one month after. Because you want to focus all your effort on this actual show rather than a tiny bar that is going to have maybe 10 to 20 people there.
[00:05:36] James: The goal should be to put the effort in where it's needed. So, if a venue goes out and says anybody who plays here has to sign this radius clause, and that includes not playing these other small venues, That is an incredibly good thing. Now, to be honest, if this were my show, I would have kicked that person off the bill immediately, or maybe said, Hey, it's either or.
[00:05:59] James: Cancel your record [00:06:00] release show, or you leave our bill. I guess the person in this band has more patience than I do, because that hasn't happened. So, props to my friend for not just kicking the opener off the bill, because that's 100 percent what I would have done. I would have been so mad, and to be fair, I also would have made the expectation clear in advance and said like, Hey, we don't want you to play anything else, and we expect you to promote.
[00:06:21] James: And I would have had a chat probably a lot sooner about, Hey, you're not promoting this show, you gotta promote this show, or we can't have you on the bill. Cause it's been three months since it was announced, and you haven't done anything. Not even a single post. start talking about it, or you're off.
[00:06:33] James: And then at that point, if they announce their own show and start promoting that, I'd be like, Okay, cool. You're gone! See ya! But, going back to radius clauses, if you don't know what they are, Essentially, they say that. You will play here on this date, and you will not play within X miles in X days. Typically, it's 50 or 100 miles for 60 days before or after. So that's a four month time span. For smaller shows, maybe you can [00:07:00] negotiate that down. Like I said, I would totally be fine with, let's say, two months before and one month after, with the stipulation that the shows afterwards are not announced until after you play that show.
[00:07:15] James: For example, back in the day when Warped Tour was a thing, the Friday or the Monday after Warped Tour used to have so many tour announcements because they were done with Warped Tour and could put out their touring plans because the Warped Tour radius clause had ended.
[00:07:30] James: So, if in this case, the opener had waited till the night of the show, when everyone's there, and then on stage said, by the way, we're having a record release party, Two weeks from now, at this other smaller venue, we'd love to see you again.
[00:07:42] James: That would be totally fine. But announcing it beforehand, not cool. That is honestly one of the rudest things you can do, and I hope this person gets blasted out of the scene for it, but unfortunately I think most people haven't realized it. if you're in this scene, you 100 percent know who I'm talking about, because [00:08:00] you've seen this post.
[00:08:01] James: Or, you know who's on that show. So, I'm not naming names, but I'm also putting all this information out here, because everything I'm mentioning, like I said at the start of the episode, is public information. I'm not sharing any privileged information, you want to find out who it was, have fun. Go be a detective.
[00:08:15] James: You'll figure it out. Now, on the bright side of this entire situation, this is the kind of artist who is not ever going to make it to bigger stages on their own, and it's because of this selfish and egotistical behavior. They think they're too good, they don't have to promote, they're just gonna get opportunities, blah blah blah.
[00:08:31] James: So my main takeaway here is, for anyone who's listening and is not doing something as stupid as this person is. Do your research. Don't ever book local bands who do this kind of thing. Now, this person is in a genre that I normally wouldn't book. but you can sure as hell believe that I'm never gonna book them ever because of this.
[00:08:51] James: Now, I don't book a lot of shows, but I will also make sure that everybody I work with knows not to book that artist [00:09:00] because of how selfish they are to pull this kind of move. Instead, when you're putting together a show, look for a solid local act who you know understand what it takes to promote a show, who you know will put in that effort to bring as many people as possible, and who will work with you instead of actively trying to undermine you, because that is what this artist is doing.
[00:09:19] James: They are actively trying to undermine the show that they are on, because they're not talking about it at all, and they're talking about a different show the week before. That is rude. It is unprofessional and is uncalled for and honestly at this point.
[00:09:32] James: I know i'm repeating myself But that is how worked up I am about this That is why i'm turning into glenn fricker today for this episode of the band hive podcast and honestly Any artist that does this is not going to have a career. So if you do do this Immediately stop and go back and apologize to anyone you've done this to.
[00:09:51] James: This is exactly the kind of behavior that will end your career before it starts. You have to use your brain, and [00:10:00] that includes having the emotional intelligence to understand how your decisions will affect the other people you work with and will affect the shows that you are on. and with that, I'm gonna say ta ta for now, because honestly, I'm just too worked up about this to really say anything else aside from, don't be that kind of person, just don't.
