[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 169 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the podcast, we have a very special guest, Jason Davis of 117 Management.

[00:00:16] James: How are you doing today, Jason?

[00:00:17] Jason: Doing great.

[00:00:18] James: I'm glad to hear that. And thank you for joining us here on the show after your uh, assistant Jesse reached out. I looked into you. I was like, wow, this guy has a ton of experience. So I'm really excited to have you here on the show. And this week we are going to be talking about what the makings of a successful career in music are, specifically for artists.

[00:00:36] James: Although, I would totally nerd out about all the behind the scenes stuff. This podcast is focused on independent artists and how we can help them grow, specifically oftentimes touring. Like I mentioned, I help independent artists tour smart, but touring is one small portion of the whole. Umbrella for an artist.

[00:00:53] James: There are so many things artists need to know about, so it's really great to have you here. Before we jump into all the details though, Jason, [00:01:00] can you share a little bit about your backstory? What inspired you to become an artist manager or get into the music world in general?

[00:01:06] Jason: I started out as a songwriter, so music was always it. My first memory. Bringing uh, a Mickey Mouse plastic guitar to the dinner table when I was a little kid. And I had a little plastic drum set in my room as a little kid. My neighbor across the street who was a year older than me when I was really little, he had, vinyl album covers on his wall.

[00:01:25] Jason: And I just remember being fascinated by. . So it was just, it was just always music. Me and that friend across the street wrote our first song at five years old. he still remembers it. we literally tried to start a band when I think we were six or seven. my first real band at 12 and started writing songs with that band and started writing songs on my own at around 15. that was kind of it. from about 15 to 23. I just wrote almost every single day. and songwriting was what got me into the business. And then I just. I had a strong desire to try to help other people [00:02:00] get into the business, and my view on what excited me was to try to find artists, and that's what led me into artist management.

[00:02:10] James: That's really cool. What you're saying about helping other artists is a lot of what Inspired Bandhive as well, just because I'm sure you've had this, people ask you questions and oftentimes it's the same questions from, 20, 30, 40 different people and you just say, Hey, you know what?

[00:02:24] James: I can do something else to serve all these people. I can help them. I think that's such a fantastic way, like if you think about it, what other in. Aside from, something in the creative umbrella is more about working together than music. And you know, I'm sure there are people that we've both come across who are not genuine people and they try to rip artists off and that kind of stuff, but for the most part it's because people love music.

[00:02:49] James: That's why we're all here. So I think that's really fantastic and I love the detail about the Mickey Mouse guitar. That's so cool.

[00:02:54] James: So once you got into management, you've been running 117 for a bit over 20 years, is that [00:03:00] correct?

[00:03:00] Jason: Yes.

[00:03:01] James: that's great. And this will be linked in the show notes, but your site is 117, that's O N E O N e, the number seven.com.

[00:03:08] James: And just looking at the portfolio of artists you've worked with, everyone is on there like it's a bunch of huge names, so clearly you have an extensive experience and background. That's why I want to touch on what the mission for 117 is. because different companies have different missions and 117 seems to be focused, which I now understand why very well on songwriters.

[00:03:30] James: So can you go a little bit more into that and the founding of 117.

[00:03:34] Jason: the driver for me, what keeps me. passionate about this and working hard is when I was 13 years old. my favorite band at the time was Def Leppard, and they put out a record called Hysteria.

[00:03:49] Jason: And when I was 12, 13, that album completely changed my life. It saved my life. And I remember one night I was going through a lot of physical abuse from my [00:04:00] father, and it was really brutal and it was happening every day for a long period of time. And I just, couldn't handle it anymore. So I remember I went downstairs in the middle of the night and I was gonna take all of the pills that I could find in my parents' cabinets, and I lined them all up on the kitchen counter in the middle of the night at 13.

[00:04:19] Jason: And I thought to myself, you know, I, I want to escape. You know, I want to take the pills. And, I realized that if I took the pills, I would never be able to listen to Def Leppard again. And the idea of not being able to listen to Def Leppard again was more powerful to me than getting beat by my father.

[00:04:36] Jason: So my love for a band and my love for an album when I was 13 years old was literally used by God to literally save my. . And so I know the power of music because I didn't kill myself at 13 years old because of a band, because of music. And also too, that album, hysteria took, over three years to make it took almost four years to make.

[00:04:58] Jason: At that [00:05:00] time, I believe the album in 1986 cost about $4 million. To make, which is probably 15 to 20 million today to make an album. there was just no compromise on making that album. Like they went to the ends of the earth to get the songs right and the sounds right, and, basically killing themselves on making a product and spending years to get one album.

[00:05:22] Jason: Right. Is. Saved my life. So I'm very driven to try to find artists and to try to mold and shape them and coach them and teach them and, hopefully in a loving way, push them to become better and try to get really good songs, which is very difficult to do, but try to get really good songs so I could be a part.

[00:05:44] Jason: music being so powerful that it reaches into some kid's bedroom or some person's bedroom and does the same thing as what it did for me.

[00:05:53] James: Yeah. Wow. First of all, thank you for sharing such a personal story. I'm sure that can't be something that's easy to talk about, [00:06:00] but I'm very glad that Def Leppard was there for you. and for me, I'm an AFI fan and. Thankfully, I'm very lucky that I haven't been in a similar place, but I have heard from many people that AFI has done the same thing for them.

[00:06:12] James: So I think it's fantastic when an artist can do that. And it's also really great that you are looking to help mold that artist, as you say, so you can keep doing that for other people who are in a place of need, like that's an amazing mission. If there's any better motivat. As someone in the music business, I don't know if I've ever heard of it like that is a really genuine way to put yourself out there.

[00:06:35] Jason: Yeah, it's, it's pretty cool. I mean, it's obviously a lot of hard work. I'm tired most days, any entrepreneurial journey can, beat you up along the way. but that driver is very real for me and, because of how powerful that moment in my life was.

[00:06:48] Jason: It's something that can't.

[00:06:50] James: Yeah, it's kind of like the light bulb moment of this is what I need to do and maybe your trajectory changes, like you said, it was later that you got into management, but [00:07:00] I'm sure at that moment that's when you realized I want to be in music, this is my way of giving back now I can do this for somebody else. And I think that's just fantastic. So in past episodes of the podcast, we've often talked about what leads to a successful career, but it's mainly been from the do it yourself side of things or as we like to call it, the decide it yourself because we say, Hey, have a team, but keep that big picture view of everything that's going on so you can kind of run a lean machine. And so having that team out there, . It doesn't mean you're not in DIY necessarily, like maybe you don't have a label, but that doesn't mean you have to do every single thing yourself. That's kind of our philosophy at Bandhive. Your experience is on a much higher level, so I'm curious to see how you would recommend an artist goes out there and how you would define success as an artist in, 2023 because it has changed over the last decade.

[00:07:53] Jason: my definition of success is that you know, whoever the individual is, can make enough [00:08:00] income so that they can keep doing what their vision is, what their goal is, what their love is. So I think if you're an artist, if you could somehow financially sustain what you're doing, whether you're signed or unsigned, or you're the biggest band in the world, or.

[00:08:15] Jason: you're the Smallest span in the world. I mean, if, you could sustain financially what you're doing and pay your bills and maybe have a little bit of savings, you're doing better than, probably most people. and, and also too that hopefully an artist is becoming, a better person and learning how to manage people better and handle people better and handle tough situations better and love people better along the way. And, I, I would view that as success too. We're all wired in different ways. we all have our own little thing that gets us excited and for me, for whatever reason, it was always trying to figure out record labels. I can't fully tell you why it was record labels, but I think I viewed record labels as [00:09:00] almost like a pro sports team for a player, you know?

[00:09:03] Jason: And it's like, how do I get this aspiring, in a sense, football player onto a. Football team. so I was always very fascinated about record labels. I, I was always excited to learn about record labels, to try to figure out how do I get an artist a deal, and then how do I prepare an artist well enough that there's a chance that the deal could actually be successful, the artist could actually have a career on the label.

[00:09:28] Jason: So my angle has always been very, very record label focus. That's not everybody's cup of tea. And, I'm not super on the indie side of things in a sense. and there's a part of me that feels like that's not very cool. And there's a part of me that feels like often, like I see these indie bands grinding it out. it blows my mind, what some of these bands and artists are able to do on their own, how we're resourceful and how hardworking and how gifted some of these people are at sustaining something without[00:10:00] a bank or a machine behind them. but I never spent tons of time figuring that out.

[00:10:05] Jason: my angle was always like, how do you get a record deal? And how does the record deal have a chance to.

[00:10:11] James: Yeah. So you're thinking, you know, three steps ahead like a chess match of this is how we're going to get to where we want to be.

[00:10:17] James: Well, I think that's great and I wanna dig more into that later in the episode. But I think the first thing that I wanna touch on is financial stability, because that's something that.

[00:10:26] James: you mentioned a lot of artists never even think that they're gonna achieve that. They think it's not gonna be possible. So what do you see an artist do, or what do you think artists should do to get to a point where they're financially stable? Let's say they're a three piece band, just to keep it simple so you don't have to split it as many ways.

[00:10:45] James: Just a three piece band. Maybe they have a couple hired guns for their live shows that kind of. What do you think that band needs to have in place and do to get to financial stability?

[00:10:55] Jason: I think all this stuff is pretty obvious, but I've seen it [00:11:00] different ways. I've seen. , one guy in the band is really gifted at TV and film, doing TV and film tracks and gets an in with somebody at a TV and film licensing company. And that person really likes their stuff. And so I've seen bands sustain, independent bands sustained because figure out how to work the TV and film licensing angle.

[00:11:22] Jason: and I've seen quite a few bands do that. . I've seen bands fundraise. they're just amazing at raising funds. whether it's from locally or somebody that the band knows. I mean, obviously when you're out there working hard and you're smart and you're grinding and you're getting some kind of traction, even if it's minor, people in your area will. see I've seen people in an, area where an artist or a band is getting some traction. All of a sudden they have, you know, 50 grand behind them, or they have, 300 grand behind them, because there's somebody in the area that's a big business person and they see this person [00:12:00] or this band literally grinding I know bands that they literally spend 40 hours a week booking shows. even if it's a duo. I've seen duos booking over a hundred shows a year. I've seen actually solo artists booking over a hundred shows a year. But I've seen duos where, you know, one person is kind of.

[00:12:18] Jason: the musical person behind their show and, the video person and the cool effects, person and then the other person in the band, all they do is send out blast emails trying to book shows. I've seen, you know, artists use. whether it's like Google Mail or like, there's different mail platforms where you get lists of people and input the list and blast out, personalized emails to hundreds of people with the click of one button. So I would say that those are the, off the top of my headways

[00:12:51] James: I think those are some really creative ways to do that and something that a lot of artists can do but don't necessarily capitalize on. But I do [00:13:00] wanna highlight just a couple episodes for folks that are listening. We have talked to some guests who have done this, so a couple episodes. The first one is going to be on fundraising.

[00:13:09] James: It's episode 77. It's called Lessons Learned from a Fan supported DIY Band with Brian Maafa of Ifi Dragons. You can find [email protected] slash 77. That's the number 77. they actually, back in 2014, did a Kickstarter campaign. This was after they got dropped from Atlantic Records. Or I think they might've parted ways.

[00:13:29] James: I'm not sure if they got dropped, so don't quote me on that. And they raised over a hundred thousand dollars on a Kickstarter campaign for a full length album. And now what they do is they have a Patreon, but instead of charging monthly, they charge every time they release an album. So basically they have enough people supporting them that anytime they release an album, they get about 40, $45,000. and I think that's a really cool way to use that platform as a recurring Kickstarter. You don't have to every time say, Hey, go join our Kickstarter. Go join our Kickstarter. Just say, Hey, we're gonna bill [00:14:00] you in two weeks. So if you don't want to get billed or you wanna change how much you're donating to us, now is the time to do it.

[00:14:06] James: And of course they keep you posted along the whole process of how things are going. So I think that is a great way that artists can go out and fundraise crowdfunding wise. But what you were saying, Jason, also about going to local businesses, I think that's a really great way to do it too. Getting sponsorships essentially, or getting people essentially is, angel investors would be a really great idea too.

[00:14:26] Jason: as of recent in the last couple years, I've, had a couple of artists that I've worked with where they just have a natural gift for social media and how to work it one pop artist in particular named Kings, who developed a following of over 5 million people on. we have another new pop artist that we're working with, Kylie Baxter, where in just maybe two or three months has gained about 500,000 followers. And when you start doing like, TikTok live and if you have a following on socials and you go live, most of these social platforms [00:15:00] have the ability for viewers.

[00:15:02] Jason: To actually send financial donations or gifts, to the person on the live, So I mean, I see artists that we're working with who have followings go live every single week or sometimes multiple times a week, and they are making real money every time they go on.

[00:15:18] Jason: one other thing about fundraising. I find artists, get very nervous about that and, feel insecure, which I totally understand. But just one, one story. There was this artist that I was working with her family was, pretty well known, for having money in their area.

[00:15:35] Jason: And so the artist said to me like, no one's going to, no one's gonna gimme money cuz everybody knows that my family. Has money and I just encouraged her to at least try. And so the very first person she asked very first turned around and offered her $50,000 to help her, and she was completely. shocked she didn't think that that could ever happen. She was really [00:16:00] just doing it because she was begged to at least try it, that might not be your experience if you try something like that, but, I, I've seen people step out and be willing to get uncomfortable and willing to put themself out there and sometimes be very surprised at the.

[00:16:16] James: I think that's fantastic. First of all, that you encouraged her to do that, but you're so spot on by saying people need to get out of their comfort zone. that's what the industry's about, and most of the time asking doesn't hurt. , there are very few situations we're asking would actually hurt. Maybe if an artist asks some incredibly stupid question, , but for the most part it's just a question and people can either say no or they can ignore it if it's email or something like that. So what's the harm in asking? As long as you don't become known as that person who's always asking and not reciprocating.

[00:16:48] James: I think that's the other important thing. people recognize when an artist is working. Which I'm sure this artist you were working with was, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten the $50,000,

[00:16:58] James: people noticed that. it's like a snowball. You [00:17:00] keep building it from there.

[00:17:01] James: that's so cool.

[00:17:01] James: And hopefully our listeners will the courage to go out there and start asking people and say, Hey, this is what we wanna do. Would you contribute? that's one of my complaints about Kickstarter I oftentimes see people, Begging on social media for donations, but they never once reach out to individual people and say, Hey, would you consider contributing to us?

[00:17:21] Jason: right? We encourage artists that we work with To talk to local business owners that they know if there's anyone that they know in the area that owns a business, any kind of business, maybe offer to do some social media promotion in return. But we, we encourage artists to ask somebody out to coffee, treat them for a lunch, you know, and really explain to them. what they're doing and how passionate they are about it and, exactly where the money would go. And, if you make it personal and you take somebody out for a coffee or a lunch, it probably goes a lot further.

[00:17:56] James: Yeah, absolutely. And essentially having, [00:18:00] maybe not show them your whole business plan, but give them the rough outline of what you're working on so they know it's not just gonna go to whatever. I think that's a great point that you're making there.

[00:18:09] James: before we hop onto the next section, I just wanna shout out the other episode, which is number 83, booking and playing 150 shows a year.

[00:18:16] James: While working a day job, Troy Molet and the fire below, that's Bandhive.rocks/ 83. The numbers eight three if you wanna listen to that one. Troy is exactly the kind of artist that you're describing there. He's just always on the grind. He works a day job and plays 150 or more shows a year. It's amazing.

[00:18:33] James: Even during the pandemic, like last year, he did 142 shows with the pandemic. Still kind of here.

[00:18:38] Jason: that is incredible.

[00:18:39] James: I don't know how he does it. He

[00:18:41] James: has the drive of 10 people, . love what you're saying here so far, Jason I wholeheartedly agree with all of it. I think it's spot on and it's really the same kind of stuff that applies to independent artists.

[00:18:54] James: I think maybe what we're gonna get at here later in the interview is that what makes an artist appealing to a record [00:19:00] label is just what makes an artist successful in. So how would you prepare an artist for a record deal?

[00:19:07] James: What do you encourage them to do so they can make themselves more appealing to those labels?

[00:19:11] Jason: Well, obviously it's very hard. it's very competitive. these are all equally important, but. obviously as a singer, vocally, you want to be as strong as you could possibly be. You know, at least as strong as you could possibly be in this moment of your life. I think you want to be working very, very hard on your voice.

[00:19:30] Jason: You probably want to be working on your voice six days a week. just digging into it with a good vocal coach and working every day on your voice and exercising that muscle every day. And if you have a truly set apart tone and you have an unbelievable, like, freak of nature voice where you sound like no one else in the world. that probably makes it a little bit easier, versus if you have a generic sounding voice. you probably need to have [00:20:00] really good songs. , maybe not hit songs or knock em dead songs, but you probably need to have really good songs to get attention.

[00:20:09] Jason: And then if you have more of a generic voice, you probably need some songs that feel like they could be radio hits, you might need that regardless, even with a freak of nature voice. . But, um, for me, number one focus is like vocals. Number two focus, which I would say is tied with number one for sure, is, how good are the songs.

[00:20:29] Jason: this is a business based on songs. No matter what genre you're in, if you have the best songs on earth, you're gonna win. If you have the worst songs on earth, you're not gonna win. no matter how hard you work, you will eventually hit a ceiling. Without having the right song.

[00:20:44] Jason: So if you're an independent artist, I think, focusing daily on your songwriting craft and digging into songwriting on a daily basis and spending years at that craft, is a big advantage. If you don't have the years of songwriting craft that [00:21:00] you've worked on, then you know you're probably gonna have to get in the room with some pretty heavyweight writers and producers.

[00:21:07] Jason: in that genre, for you to really get stuff that sounds competitive. And obviously those people that you're in the room with are gonna truly have to care about what they're doing. it can't just be a money grab or them trying to make a quick buck off of you. it's gotta be really cared about there's gotta be some deep digg.

[00:21:26] Jason: On the songs because, if, if you don't have great songs, I'm not saying you can't get a record deal, but you really would have a hard time getting a record deal. And if you do get a record deal and you don't know how to get good songs, the record label usually is not gonna help that much.

[00:21:44] Jason: maybe they'll help a little bit, but, um, if you don't know who you are and you don't know, kind of the path of how to get to pretty good songs, and you sign a record deal. I'd say more times than not, those deals don't usually go very well.

[00:21:57] James: that's totally accurate. And you know, I remember[00:22:00] probably about 10 years ago when I was in college, we were learning about the rule of 10. for every 10 albums, one of them is successful and the rest just kind of, Faith into obscurity. And I think it probably comes down to what you're saying there is the songwriting just wasn't great.

[00:22:13] James: People didn't connect to it, I think a big part of it is it's been shown time and again, that people like what's familiar but also new. And that's really important I see a lot of artists who are kind of hesitant to go out there and make something that doesn't sound totally unique and wacky.

[00:22:32] James: And I'm like No, like it can sound like something else. Just don't rip it off. But if you're showing your influences, that's fine. People will appreciate that. is that something that you have to work on with your artists to kind of get them into that comfort zone of, hey, like it's okay to sound like somebody else as long as you're not stealing their work?

[00:22:48] Jason: Yeah. I mean, most of the artists I work with that are successful, they like the idea of relating. it sounds like, you know, this group meets this group.[00:23:00] Artists learn early on that you have to explain the sound to anybody you're meeting.

[00:23:06] Jason: Like if you walk in a room with a songwriter, if it's not set up where the songwriter understands what the bullseye is, it's very hard for that songwriter who doesn't know the artist And obviously if the artist has, two or three or four songs that are really strong and really good, I think that helps other writers and producers know who that artist is.

[00:23:28] Jason: But if you're in the very beginning and you don't have good song examples and you don't have strong examples, to show people, Hey, this is a song I have, and killer and it hits the bullseye. I think the only other way to show people in the industry what the goal is or what the bullseye looks like musically, is to pinpoint other artists and try to explain.

[00:23:49] Jason: it most of the artists I work with are fine with that. the sensitivity is probably to, this song sounds like this other artist, too much, or this sounds just like that other [00:24:00] song, or that song title is actually another artist's song that was on the radio last year, so we can't use that song title, or, you know, if something hits upon, like that's a little too close.

[00:24:11] Jason: I think that's the sensitive part, but if it makes you feel like another artist or it makes you feel like something, I think that's totally fine.

[00:24:19] James:

[00:24:19] James: one of my favorite examples there is I don't know if you're familiar with the band, new Politics, back in 2010, their first album, four of the songs had the exact same chord progression, and I was like, , they're great songs. Who cares? Like they're fun, they're poppy.

[00:24:31] James: Like whatever. The guitarist didn't realize it till 2019 . I was talking to him a couple years ago and he's like, by the way, did you ever notice? I'm like, yeah, dude. I've known for 10 years So things like that, you know, artists can do that to themselves and realize it later, and I think that's just kind like a fun fact.

[00:24:47] James: That's trivia. And I'd bring this up because yesterday I heard a song and I said, it's the same chord progression, which is also the same the. Gail, who was viral on TikTok last year with A B C D F U or [00:25:00] A B C D E F U, that song, same chord Progression and going back, the artist I heard yesterday used that same chord progression, but the synths in the background sounded exactly like new politics.

[00:25:11] James: I'm like, that's so cool. It's clearly not stolen from them. Everybody's using that court progression, but I think the producer listened to new politics back in the. And subconsciously added that in there. And I think that's what makes music so beautiful is like there's these little things where you hear a hint there and you just say, that's that. And it's not necessarily stolen. Like you can't copyright a synth tone, but it's in there

[00:25:33] Jason: we all have to get inspired by something first, and it's pretty hard to get inspired by something and not want to do something that reminds you of it.

[00:25:40] James: Yeah, exactly. And I'm sure there are artists who have done it with Def Leppard where you say, Hey, you know that riff that sounds like they've been listening to Def Leppard for the last six months on repeat.

[00:25:50] James: it happens. And it doesn't even fall to the level of a derivative work.

[00:25:54] James: It's just nice to say, Hey, that's where the inspiration comes from. That's really cool. I like that band too.[00:26:00] [00:26:00] James: So as we start to kind of wrap things up here, I have two more questions for you, Jason. The first one being with the record labels, you've already mentioned that you are very pro label. You want to get your artists to a deal, that's your goal for them.

[00:26:13] James: What do you think the pros and cons are of signing a label deal with an artist?

[00:26:18] Jason: well, I'll start with cons first. and I'm not even saying that these are cons, but I think these are challenges. , the moment you put your signature on a record deal, the record label is counting down how long it is until they release your music. if you're trying to do something like Steve Jobs did with the iPhone, he was able to do the iPhone because there was no one above him saying, we're only gonna give you six more months, and then we have to put out something. So he took three and a half years to make the iPhone. If you sign a record deal and you're a brand new artist, a record label's not gonna give you three and a half. ,years you'll be very, very lucky if you get a year and a half. and it's hard to [00:27:00] make something truly unbelievable and memorable as an album. with time constraints, obviously there are examples in music history. where an album was written in a week and it was recorded, a week later. And, you know, it was a two week process and it's like a legendary album. you do have, these crazy, unbelievable albums that were made in a short period of time. But I would say more times than not, the greatest albums of all time. There was a lot of torturing of details and a lot of digging. . Not saying it's years, but a lot of digging. And so I think when you sign a record deal, what could be viewed as a con maybe if you don't have all your ducks in a row and you don't have all your songs right yet. there's some sort of, pace and pressure cook. that a record label deal is where they just want to put it out. sometimes that could be an enemy of greatness. that is, I believe some of the reason why artists, you fail on labels is they're just not given [00:28:00] enough time. and then the pros are if you have the right song and the record label has, a solid radio team, And they've got, 10, 20, 30, 40 years of putting out songs to radio. Those inroads relationally with different radio stations around the country are pretty well paved. If you don't have the right song, record label's gonna look like they're not very powerful. and if you do have the right song, the record label can do unbelievable things because of those inroads that. . it always comes down to the song. but I think, you know, if, if you try to push a song on your own, unless you have a lot of money to push it and you have really unbelievable relationships with a lot of radio promoters around the country that are really strong radio promoters, you know, it's very difficult to do something independently and the record label does have. those inroads with radio stations.

[00:28:54] James: absolutely. And that's, you know, I actually got my start in radio at a small community station and it was amazing to [00:29:00] see how fleshed out, particularly Interscope and Reprise, they had a lot of rock artists, this is back in 2009, and how fleshed out their radio departments were and how busy they were.

[00:29:10] James: it's so huge to see how these labels tie growth to having the right people in radio, which a lot of artists even considered a dead format, but I don't think it. because you still have radio everywhere,

[00:29:23] James: especially in the pop stations everywhere.

[00:29:25] Jason: I can't speak of. , more obscure genres. But I think for the big genres of music, radio is still the number one driver to a career.

[00:29:34] James: Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's where you pick up the casual listeners who will say, Hey, I like this. I'm gonna go buy a ticket, I'm gonna go buy a shirt, whatever it is. That's where you pick up casual listeners, if they've never heard of you before. a lot of people don't go digging through Spotify for obscure artists.

[00:29:50] James: People don't do that.

[00:29:51] Jason: and also too, Spotify is not a great tool of letting you know that the concert's coming to your area next week.

[00:29:58] Jason: if there's an artist [00:30:00] on a radio station and they're doing well on that station, that station is gonna let fans know when that artist is coming to town. it's also the main driver for selling concert tickets and that's how artists on a bigger.

[00:30:14] Jason: Make most of their income is through playing shows and selling merchandise at those shows.

[00:30:19] James: Yeah, absolutely. It makes such a difference. Now, Jason, last question for you before we get into where people should go to find out more about you. If an artist is trying to negotiate a deal with a label, what should they absolutely do before signing anything?

[00:30:34] Jason: Well, if you don't have a relationship with the label previously and you've never negotiated a deal with them before, if you don't understand the record industry contracts inside and out, obviously you need a good high character, entertainment. And I would always try to not give more than 50% of your publishing away to a label.

[00:30:59] Jason: The [00:31:00] publishing piece, I think is the biggest piece.

[00:31:01] James: Yeah. I mean, that's huge. And publishing, it's so widespread at that point, because then even, let's say somebody covers the song, if the label has 75%, they didn't really do anything except push the original song. Now somebody else is covering it and the label's getting 75%, which we should do an episode on the whole 200% model of publishing at some point.

[00:31:20] James: But for now, I think that's a great point, making sure that you retain those rights. there's hard stories like what happened to the Verve, 25 ish years ago with Bittersweet Symphony. that poor. must have been devastating. All right, Jason, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.

[00:31:35] James: And the final question is, aside from one seventeen.com, which is O N E O N E, the number seven.com, where should people go to learn more about you and your work?

[00:31:44] Jason: thanks for having me. we have some websites up for different companies. We have, we don't really to be open, we don't use them a whole lot.

[00:31:51] Jason: But you know, we, we have Noble Management. We have a company that we've done a few artists with radar Label Group 117, so those are some of the different [00:32:00] companies.

[00:32:00] James: All right. Well, Jason, thank you again. It's been a pleasure chatting with you I've learned a lot and I've really enjoyed this episode and our, uh, 40 minutes here chatting. So thank you so much and I hope you have an amazing day.

[00:32:10] Jason: Me too. Thank you.

[00:32:12] James: That does it for this episode of the Bandhive Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. I really appreciate it and I hope that this interview with Jason Davis of one 17 Management has given you some insight into how you can build a sustainable career for yourself as an artist.

[00:32:26] James: Whether you decide to sign to a label or not, whatever your goals. What Jason said is incredibly important, so I hope that you will take this advice to heart and go out there and apply it to your own business. Now that said, if you have any questions, we do have a Facebook community, which you can find at Bandhive.rocks/group.

[00:32:46] James: That will automatically redirect you to Facebook, or you can just search for Bandhive, B A N D H I V e on the Facebook app. Join us there and any questions you may have, please feel free to ask and keep in mind that every single episode [00:33:00] also has a dedicated discussion thread in that group. So again, you can go to Bandhive.rocks/group or Search Bandhive on Facebook. We'll be back with another brand new episode of the Bandhive Podcast next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern Time. Until then, I hope you have a great week. Stay safe, and of course, as always, keep rocking.