Welcome to Episode 50 of the Bandhive Podcast.

It is time for not just another episode of the Bandhive podcast, because this is Episode 50. My name is James Cross, and today I do not have with me Aaron Gingras or Matt Hoos.

I have Aaron Gingras of Suburban Samurai and Matt Hoos of Alive in Barcelona. How are you both doing today? Well, bounds. Uh huh. Pretty good. That's great to hear. And I think it's been 43 episodes since we were all three on an episode together. I think it's Episode seven was the last time and only time till now that we were all three on an episode together. Think about how different the world was at that point. Yeah, we recorded that in December 2019, when no one knew what Covad was, except the people in China who were, you know, covering it up that point.

I think the first time I heard of Cove it was like the week between Christmas and New Years. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, whatever. Like Asia has another, you know, SARS like thing. It'll fizzle out just like all the other stuff. Like, remember Stars 1003 or whatever. More or less, there's like, what 3000 people infected and it seemed like such a big hyped up deal. So I thought that it was gonna be like that until all of a sudden it hit here. I was like, Oh, okay.

So yeah, quite the difference from then until now. And we are also going to be talking about differences from then, Ah, much further past then. Although it might seem like it's been five years since we did that episode, it's only been, uh, you know, about, uh, 10, 11 months. Today we are going Thio specifically, you two are gonna be talking about, and I'll be asking you some questions. What would you do differently if you were restarting your bands at the same time that you started them originally knowing what you know now in 2020.

But Before we get into that, we're going to dig deep and talk about your high school bands. So, Aaron, do you wanna take us away and tell us some of embarrassing high school stories? Gross, embarrassing high school stories. Uh, band related. Please stick to the patio with that on. Lee sort of narrows it down, but I have to be careful of the guitar player who I play with now is my best friend, 30 years old, and we've known each other for 20 years. Um, was in this first band with me, so it was great.

It okay, Cody, under the bus. Hey, uh, it was called Rush Angel, and, uh, yeah, we've known each other since, like, the 3rd and 4th grade, and we grew up, you know, like, four minutes drive from each other. I think he got into guitar playing, you know, a few years before I got into, um, drumming. But at that point, you know, in, like, middle school, I don't think anything was neither one of us were being very serious about anything. Um, but, you know, we realized that Hey, we're both playing instruments that sort of compliment each other.

Let's try this thing out. And yes, we we played in this been called Rush Angel throughout, Uh, you know, mid and late high school. And, you know, we played in, like, local corn festivals. And, you know, that was the same band that I got My first, um, you know, experience like booking shows out of state and like borrowing my mom's minivan, which I don't know why she allowed to do that, but she did. And, you know, go travel for a day or two. It, you know, drive down to Massachusetts or whatnot.

So yeah, huge crash course. Huge. You know, lessons learned a thing. But, you know, there's a lot of fun and probably wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if I didn't do that first. Okay. Well, cool. It sounds like, you know, that really gave you a taste for it. And that's when you realize kind of that's what you want to dio, is that right? Totally. Yeah. Once I got a taste for it, it was like, OK, I want to do that again. You know, like, how far can I spread my wings and, like, sore?

You know, like what? This seems you know, not I will never call it easy. Um and, you know, I feel like where and whenever, right here. Like a younger person called something easy. My first gut reaction is like, you just wait, But, you know, I was definitely like, Like, I'm able to do this like, not well at that point. But, you know, I could book a show. It's just you just go book a show, and then you booked a show. So, you know, I I sort of use that experience to teach myself, You know, you could do something if you just, like, figure out how to do it and then do it.

And so that was to me, sort of really inspiring. And it's like, Okay, well, what can I do next? What can I do more of? You know, what weird stuff can ideo and some of that weird stuff worked out Some of it didn't So did a little bit of a lot of different stuff and again, But keep in mind, we were, like, 16 or 17, So, um, wasn't great, but, you know, definitely bills from that, for sure. You know, I, um, learned what sort of things would end up being embarrassing.

And I learned to do those less. And I learned what sorts of things were, you know, working out really, really well. And I learned to do those more. That sounds awesome, Matt, not to put you on the spot, but we are going to shine the spotlight on you. Now. What's your background there? My background. I'm just a professional, awesome person all the time. Eso That's pretty much all you need to know about me. No. So my background A on the first band was a band called Guess With a Question Mark at the end.

You know, we were We were young. We were nothing more than a garage band, but actually you couldn't even call us. That, really is that we were nothing more of a back bedroom band. Luckily, my guitarist parents were big music protagonists, and so they didn't mind us coming over and playing really loud music for numerous hours a day, numerous days a week. You know, they were a wonderful place, but we we didn't know what we like to dio. We didn't know what kind of music we like to play.

We just we jammed. And whatever we thought that we liked, we tried to then somehow very horribly put on paper, which which never worked, ever. We e don't even I honestly don't even remember what the like the software we used for anything. I don't even remember any of the songs or anything like that. I just remember my guitarist being the best guitarist I've ever played with in my entire life. Sorry to my current bandmates. But Josh Josh was a child prodigy. And when I moved away from the state of Colorado, he was playing flight of the Bumble Bee on piano, 12 string Spanish acoustic and electric guitar.

When I met him, he was like playing kill switch engage Rifts and Joe Satriani and Mom Steen and stuff. And then when I moved away, he was like, I just like to put in a Coltrane album and play along just whatever I feel while I'm listening to John Coltrane. I'm like, Wow, you are. You're a musician. I'm just gonna move to Idaho. Don't mind me. Um, but, you know, you know, for me, I was really lucky to have someone who was so talented, so close. Uh, he was just awesome.

Ready resource that he's really responsible for teaching me base, which was my first instrument. He showed me the red hot chili peppers, which are my favorite band on. He was kind of the person who really, you know, pushed me into the into the life of music. Um, but back then, it was all friendship and and no business. And that was, you know, it was the high school band. And I know how we talked about this in our episode A few weeks back About how when you're in high school, you know, everybody either have a job or you're still living at home, So bills aren't really thinks you think about you're not thinking about you know how you can retire Eventually.

You're not thinking about how to get food on the table you're thinking about Oh, man, this riff is awesome. People are gonna think we're so cool because we play this awesome riff really loud. And all those thoughts of grandeur stayed just that they stayed thoughts. We never actually played a single show. We probably wrote four or five songs that weren't memorable, and but we had some great memories along the way. That sounds pretty awesome. And I guess it was the path to bigger and better things. Apparently I got that that, actually.

So for those of you who are listening, that was a double band pun. Because better things is, uh, the band that I filled in for a few times back in the day. And that part was actually unintentional until I was saying it. And then Aaron put his arms up like he was cheering a touchdown or something. Eso double band pun That is a first for Bandhive history. Let's go like some sort of sound effect right there, boy. Maybe the air horn DJs used so much can.

We may hate that thing, but maybe here we'll see How about it anyway. Seductive voice You've been pund. It's Episode 50. There's gonna be shenanigans here on Episode 50 because we're hanging out having a good time, and we're just stoked that people listen to 49 episodes so far on that note. If any of you haven't heard the episode with Howie from Belly, who yet the one Matt just mentioned That's Episode 48. You can check it out at Bandhive dot rocks slash 48. That's the numbers four and eight. And, yeah, you know how he said it.

ZZ in high school. Just because you don't care what happens, you're just having fun with your friends. And whether you're playing in your garage or a bedroom or borrowing your mom's minivan to go play shows, there's still that element of, you know. We're just having fun with our friends. This may be a shock to most of you. I mean, I don't hide this or anything. I'm not in a band. I just do audio. And I helped lots of friends with their bands because everyone comes to me with questions and stuff because they dio I couldn't tell you why, but they dio and so that's how I ended up where I am.

And obviously I'm an audio engineer and stuff, and I know the music industry I've done touring in sponsorship and, you know, working tours and stuff like that. But the only time I've ever actually played shows was filling in for a friend's band when they're bass Player was, ironically, at basic training, So yeah, I'm not in a band. I don't have a high school band story. I have a high school band management story, which I'm not going to tell you because no one should be managing a high school band unless that high school band is like, made up of three Justin Babers.

But I was in no position 10 years ago to be managing an artist, but it was still learning experience. So anyway, enough about that in my history of not being in bands. One thing I gotta ask before we move on is what do you think is the most important thing you learned from your high school bands Get better at music. I feel like that's a good one. That's a really good Yeah, well, you know, as a high schooler, I don't think any of us ever thought about the business, you know?

And so I was really easy to say. Like, we're gonna write songs, people are gonna love them. And we're going to be rich, you know, in that short 123 simple step process, You know, maybe get signed is in there as one of the bull points. But what I find looking back that I I feel like I should have done is there was a certain point when when the regular practice stopped because the band practice started, you know, and there was a lot of years of my life personally where you know, you know, I felt like I got really, really comfortable playing my instrument, being in my home being, you know, sitting in front of my computer, learning tabs, not having a car, not having anywhere to go living outside of town.

It was one of those things where I consistently I got better in my own time. And then I went out and had fun with my friends, and that was something for me. I think that really stopped when I started in a band for many, many years, and it wasn't until years later, when I was in the persevering promise, specifically with my drummer. Uh, my drummer chases classically trained, and we would have band practice every Sunday, and it would really hurt him whenever we would have band practice and people would mess up songs and, you know, and one of my members would say, Well, we're practicing it And this was like a weird disconnect for Chase because he was always like no this is rehearsal.

This is where we rehearse our show. Practice happens at home, and it was something he was very firm about. And various cities like, No, if you like, if you wanna play your parts, you need to know your parts. How do you know your parts? You practice them. You know, this was coming from somebody who sat in a football field with nothing but a metro and playing over the loudspeakers where they didn't, you know, nothing had shirts on because and there he marched drum corps. So he literally had stand out there for 8 to 12 hours a day, information carrying drums and be having to play to a click the entire time.

So for him, the concept of, like, coming to practice not prepared was this foreign concept then obviously going through, you know, higher education. You don't get a show up to class and be like, Oh, I'm practicing right now. It's like, No, this is our time for us. Yes, like, yeah, we're practicing. But the practice needs to happen at home. Your rehearsal time is now, and that, I think, is probably one of the most important things. That was lost for me. During my early years, I felt like I was good at playing bass, so it stagnated.

It was no longer the thing that I said, Uh, I need to get better at base so that I become a better musician. It was Well, I'm pretty good at base. So now what's the next step? Now? How do I get better? Well, now, now I need to get better at something else. And it was really a supplement. It changed from base to something else. And it was like I said, it was chasing that that really helped, you know, bring me some focus. But also one of my one of my all time favorite quotes.

There is a very old cellist who, uh, I believe he was like 1994 95 years old. And he still practices cello eight hours a day. And when he was asked why, he said, What do you mean? They said, Well, you have grandkids. You have family members. You have. You know, you've You've lived this long, healthy life. You're one of the greatest cellists to have ever touched the instrument. Why do you play eight hours a day? and calmly, coolly and collectively. He looked him in the eye and said, Because I think I'm making progress.

And that is, I think the thing that people forget is that progress is great. And no matter where you're at in your career, there is not a time for you to settle. If you ask the biggest musicians in the world when the time to stop working is they don't know how to turn off Lady Gaga's family. You know, when she was the number one artist, she was, you know, Super Bowl halftime show. I mean, the woman was the most loved person by the LGBT Q Community e.

She was everywhere, and when somebody asked her mom to comment on her work, her mom said, Well, I just hope that she can take a break and enjoy it because even this woman's mother knew that this woman is at the height of her career. She is loved by all these people. She has made it, and her own mother says, I hope that she can stop and smell the roses on. I think that that progress, you know, that combination of consistently making progress and then stopping and smelling the roses is one of the most important things ever.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's so true. And the day you stopped learning is the day that basically, there's no more progression in your life and other people are going to get ahead because other people don't stop learning. If you're bored, then you're boring. That's right. Well, in what you said, James, that's pretty. You know, there's a, uh I think it was. Now I can remember which basketball coach this is, but I believe he said it toe It was either the Michael Jordan or one of the other, you know, the greatest.

And he said, When you're practicing, somebody else's practicing and when you're not practicing somebody else's practicing and the day that you meet them, they will beat you. And that was, you know, ah, very powerful thing. And I believe that was said to Michael Jordan on Guy could be incorrect on that. Don't quote me on that, but it you know, when you're not practicing, they are, and the day that you meet them, they will beat you. And that was powerful mantra. Yup. Another way to put that in a little more harsh way is, if you ain't first, you're last Ricky Bobby on the thing there is.

You know being in a band isn't a competition, but let's put it another way. If you're not in the top, let's say 2000 your last. It's probably way more than 2000, but let's say in like a specific scene, I would wager that there's about 2000 bands in like, you know, the Ault Rock Warped Tour scene who are making a living off of it and everyone else is 2000 might be generous. Spotify put out some numbers recently for how many people are making money off of streams like a full time equivalent of like, 2000 month or something.

And I think it was about 40 to 45,000 artists total, which that I mean, that's great. That's a lot of artists, but that's not nearly enough Now. Granted, thats Onley for artists who are making enough from Spotify exclusively, and we talk all the time about how you have to diversify your income streams and all that stuff. But that's another topic for another time. The main thing is, if you ain't first, you're last. And to maintain that first position in whatever little niche it is you have, you have to continually educate yourself, practice and work on your business.

What you're saying there, man, I think that's absolutely great. Aaron, what would you say? From you know, your early days in your high school band stood out to you. I'm gonna have to echo something that Matt brought up for a second. The, um Yeah, Matt, I forget what you called it, but, um, me and my friends called it leveling up. You know, that moment where, you know, you're sort of grinding, and whatever it is that you're doing and then, you know, you're you're so laser focused, Uh, and you know, you're you're in the weeds, you know, you're trying.

I mean, myself is a drama. I'm tryingto, you know, at 16 years old, figure out, you know, double bass. Do I want to do that? How do I do that? Like what is that going to help me with? What's it gonna take, you know, away from something else, continuing to learn my instrument. Um, just sort of being in the weeds with, you know, sometimes, really cool stuff and sometimes the dumbest stuff and just figuring it out, Um, day after day, the you know, leveling up is the greatest feeling.

And that's just, you know, sort of living in the weeds and then all of a sudden one, you know, rehearsal or practice or show whatever it is, you have a good show. It kind of hits you in the face like that was good, but like like, that was good, though, like, I feel I feel good about that in a way that, like, incremental progress every day. Um, I think is the it's I think how my brain has always worked. You know, I've just I've just tried to do something every day, check something off, and and not just so I could say I checked it off, but I'm you know, I like to check something off, but I also like to pay attention, toe.

You know how I check it off. You know, if I try to learn a new part, I wanna make sure I don't walk away without, you know, nailing at least a part of it or, you know, nailing part of the song or whatever. And, um it's those moments where you can, you know, you do that day after day, to whatever extent you can with whatever you're doing and then it sort of hits you like you take a second and you look back on the, you know, the four weeks prior and you go Oh, wow.

You know, I've really made some progress. I learned this whole record or I've separated my left foot, you know, in a way that I just wasn't able toe, you know, play these parts before now. I can, whatever it iss So that's I kind of, you know, dumb luck stumbled backwards into just, you know, I think that's just how my brain works. And I feel so lucky, toe. Um, you know, sometimes I pull my hair out because being in the weeds can, you know, that's exactly what it sounds like It is.

But it is really a blessing in disguise because for whatever reason, every little bit, you know, I kind of like, get pinched or I, like, wake up for a second go like wow, like, you know, this makes me want to pull my hair out. Sometimes I do pull my hair out but like it's worth it, you know, I am making progress, and for me there's no better feeling than that. And sure, I love like a Facebook. You know, Kiss asked a zoo much as the next person.

But, um, you know, the best feeling that I've ever had is, um, you know, when I am truly happy, what I've just done, and that's, you know, it's hard to get to that point, but I've been there a few times, and it's a great feeling. And there was a bunch of that in the early days because, you know, when you start with nothing, when you start out, you know your fresh, your newer at something, you're gonna have more of that. There's more to learn. You know, I've never done learning.

Nobody's ever done learning. But just you know, when you're picking something up for the first time, you're going to hit. You know those benchmarks a little quicker, whether it's because you're, you know, sort of blazing through the first bits and pieces of what it means to play drums or guitar whatever, or whether it's because you're you know you're moving forward. But you're also moving to the left and the right and sort of exploring the different styles. And what, you want your position to be in the band.

So I guess if I had to pick one word from my early days in my high school band, Um, and even though, you know, my like, I went to college and, um, I played in a few bands there as well. It's exploration, um, you know, sort of really learning to value. You know what, What it means, You know, when I say leveling up, Um, and you you can't really do that unless you do dedicate yourself day and day out to just trying to get better at something in whatever way you can that day.

And then a little later in my early twenties when I, um, was becoming more serious, you know, I went to college for music. It was appreciating the process of you know what it is to assemble a release, whether it's an e p or a record, or, you know, really, really appreciating on a deeper level what it means to sort of organize all those puzzle pieces and, you know, have band meetings where you're not just you know. Hopefully you like each other. But that's not why you're all in the same room.

You're all in the same room because you're tryingto decide on, you know, artwork or you're trying Thio, um you know, I don't know, um, bring all of your demos and, you know, throw him onto the table and pick out which ones you wanna pursue and try toe work into this next release, Whatever it is, um eso you know, 11 leading up and working hard and exploration. Um, you know, you're never going to know if you're good at something or if you've sort of got a natural knack for something, unless you try it.

But to get there, you gotta try a whole lot of other stuff that you're not gonna be great out. And so I, um I'm e think probably more self conscious now than I was when I was younger, But I'm thankful. And maybe that's I'm just more pessimistic now, but I'm thankful that I was just, like, blissfully ignorant, you know, 10 years ago, um, when I sort of transition from Oh, this is fun to like Who? I could do something with this because that led me to not be, You know, so afraid.

Um, there was afraid, as others were at the time toe explore and make mistakes which, you know, lead to me progressing in some ways and backing off of other things that, you know, I don't do now because I, you know, I shouldn't dio. I think it's just important to know where you should be in the industry is where you shouldn't be. That's just is helpful. I really like what you're saying there first of all, the whole thing about your leveling up and realizing what you've done recently to improve, but also what you just said at the very end about realizing where you should and shouldn't be in the music industry.

One thing for people Anyone listening who if you don't feel like you're getting anywhere, even though you are practicing a lot every day or your rating, you're listening to the podcast, but you don't feel like you're getting anywhere each time you accomplish something new that you haven't done before. Write it down somewhere have like a you know, a note on your phone or a little journal dedicated to this, but ah, log of your improvements, and you can use that because if you're going for a big goal, it can seem really daunting.

But if you break that up, or even if you don't break that up, but you just track the smaller achievements, things will seem a lot more within your grasp because you'll be able to look back and say, Wow, I've done all this stuff. Of course I could do this. So one little quick side note for a tip there. Now it's time to move on into where you guys are now with your bands. So, Erin, if you want to give us a quick two minute recap of what suburban samurais up Teoh right now and in the past, you know, a year and a half or so before Covic destroyed the music industry.

Yes, so my my band now Sub Sam, Suburban Samurai. Um, like I said, I'm in a band with ah, bass player who I've known and I've played with for 10 years, and I'm in the band with a guitar player who I've known for 20 years. We all have a great connection. Um, the band's just a hair over five years old. We had our five year anniversary birthday show where those kinds of people where all the good holidays have been taken up by cooler bands than us. So we just have to be like jerks and celebrate our own birthday and throw show.

But it's a good opportunity to like, you know, invite our friends remain or from Albany. You know, those regional people who wouldn't come out all the time. And, um, there's a good excuse to have a lot of fun, but yes, so we just recently had our fifth birthday show. We're currently before Covert Hit were gearing up and talking with producer in a recording engineer out of Mass. Who we were really excited to get to work with. And then, of course, covert hit. And, you know, the world kind of caught on fire.

So we've had to rethink that strategy. Um, but I think if we were to have been forced to have pivoted, I would have chosen something else other than Global pandemic. But, um, you know, if I had to pick us over lining, we're better for having that rug swept out from under us. We've had to rethink like how we're going to approach this next thing. And so at the moment, can't say this is gonna happen this way. But we're sort of toying with, you know, releasing what would have been a deep and sort of, you know, stretching those out.

Maybe we'll throw a couple out there into the world. Onda have them service, you know? Yeah, singles. You know, we're gonna play with the formatting a bit. We're working on recording. I keep talking about we're working on ah, live streaming thing of our own, which is slowly but surely coming together, which is exciting. That's a brand new avenue for us, as I'm sure it is for many other people. So I think I think at the this point, um, you know, with it's still not seeming like the best idea to go on play shows, even though depending on where you live, your local gig might offer that opportunity to you.

That's that's not here with us right now. And so we're still trying to figure out how we could best be creative Thio put something out there. It's been a little too long and, you know, it just feels itchy. So yeah, that's that's what we've been up Thio. That sounds really awesome. It sounds like a great, you know, past year and a half. And I realized actually, your fifth and a half birthday would have been last month at the time recording. So give yourself a little more credit there.

It would have been It was a huge shift. Like we you know, our first We started in 2015 and the first year we totally dragged our feet, you know, playing a bunch of local gigs to just try to get our feet under ourselves. And then since then, you know, we've played an average of, you know, 40 to 50 shows a year from nothing. That was a huge leap for the kind of band that we are, you know, where we kind of do everything ourselves and then just to suddenly kind of be back to that place where we were during Year One is there's something sort of I slapped myself like it's poetic, but like that, it just it seems, you know, it seems so weird, but it you know, I'm very thankful for the technology that's available to us because it's it didn't seem like it at first, but I think we could turn it into an opportunity.

Yeah, I think it will be really awesome once you guys get things going. And so on that note, man, I know you really had some exciting stuff going on the last year and a half. A swell. You wanna talk about that? Yeah, sure. No way. Had a fun last year. We did a couple full U. S. Tours. We hit the road with red jumpsuit apparatus and Alesana did a full US tour, which was a lot of fun. It's good experience. And, uh, we got to hit a lot of markets that we just never had the opportunity to hit before, So that was really wonderful.

We also last year had a a pretty big staple, at least a personal staple for me. Um, and that we had one of our songs hit a million streams on Spotify. And so we It was kind of surreal because kind of how we were talking earlier. Um, stopping and smelling the roses is very important and just kind of like, you know, if you don't stop and do that, then you end up, you know, like if you go on work at McDonald's and you get employee of the month.

It's McDonald's who goes to the trophy shop and buys you the trophy. Now you don't realize this because you're just receiving a trophy and that excites you. But, you know, for us, my guitarist, when we actually hit the a million, he, uh, I was our label. Or maybe it was even Spotify that had them made and sent to our label, who then sent them out to us. And so I have it hanging here on my wall right in front of me because there's times when I sit there and think, You know, if a million people had heard my music in the eighties of the nineties, I would never have to worry about making enough money in the industry.

But here we are in a totally different market, and I need those roses, you know. And you were talking earlier, Aaron about how how it's hard and but it's worth it, you know, it reminds me of landscaping. Tilling the ground is hard, but smelling the roses is absolutely worth it. And so you know, for us in this last year, like we've we've had, You know, each year we've had, like, one or two things that have really excited us. But this last year was really a big. It's a big boost of confidence, you know, but with large tours, a million streams and earlier on in the year we actually had a radio single that was top 100 for six weeks.

So that was another really awesome staple for us. And so now you know, coming into all this covert stuff, it's been, it's been difficult to try to adapt its. You know, we live in different states, so getting together with our band mates for live streams is not as feasible or is not as easily doable. And so we've had to kind of try to figure out different ways. We actually had a tour planned for earlier on this year and the start date. Waas. I think our first date in Spokane was like March 21st or something like that, pretty much as the states were locking down was like when tour was supposed to start.

So we we after we had almost an entire tour booked. We ended up having to go back and cancel it because most of the venues were closed and so that, you know, that's kind of turned into, uh, a long, slow, dedicated time for preparation, writing more material. I went, you know, like you were talking earlier about making lists, you know, it's really, really, uh it's really hard to sit down and say I'm gonna go write an album. You know, it's not hard saying, I'm gonna sit down and write a catchy riff.

I'm gonna sit down and write a chorus, and I think that goes hand in hand with what you were talking about. James with compartmentalizing things. And rather than saying, I'm gonna sit down and write an album this week, which is a very daunting thing, and you're gonna you're gonna get in and you realize you have a laundry list. Instead, it's saying for me, when I was writing, I said, I'm gonna write a chorus today and I would start and I would write a chorus, and if I got to the end of writing that chorus, one of two things would happen.

Either I would feel creative or I would feel stagnant. If I felt stagnant, I would leave it on. I would try again the next day. You know, if the creative juices started flying, Well, then most of the time that turned into, like, three quarters of a song, or at least verses and choruses and whatnot. You maybe all I had to do was a bridge later. Or maybe all I had to do is write lead lines or something. And so, you know, that's kind of what we've been focusing on now is trying to compartmentalize, you know, really focus on what the next step is.

More writing for album, too. So that's an exciting thing. But at the same time, it's also an unsure thing, as far as how how the industry shifts. You know, how many producers were going to be producing after all of this is over what other businesses besides ours that adapted with the times. And that's gonna be the real struggle. Yeah, it's definitely gonna be interesting to see how things change. And I know just today artists have been announcing things the last couple days. Like today, I saw a rise against announced big festival appearance for next fall in 2021 and knock on wood.

I really hope that they're not jumping the gun because I would love for shows to be a thing safely next year. But I could just imagine being such a heartbreak for not only the band but also the fans if all of that gets canceled again, and so it's their kind of hedging their bets, they're saying, Hey, we're gonna announce this, hoping that there's an effective vaccine by then. So here's hoping. But anyway, that's, you know, we don't want to focus on the down or stuff for this episode.

This is a happy episode. It's episode number 50. Let's get into the top three things that each of you would dio knowing what you know now starting your band five or 10 years ago when you started it. So Aaron, you started Sub Sam in 2015. We talked about that. How is your 5th and 5th and a half birthday just recently? What would you do differently as Aaron in 2015 if you're starting Sub Sam over again with all the knowledge that you have now in 2020 covert aside, let's just pretend that that does not exist and focus on the more within our grasp elements of what you would change.

You know, I'd start cutting my hair really short, like I have it now because I like the longer hair just doesn't work for me and I But if we were to start talking about music stuff, uh, you should cut that now. That was hilarious. You should leave both of those in. Oh, no. Now we're keeping the whole thing. E You know, I think like the first three things that, like, just, like, popped in my head, right when you ask this question earlier. You know, I mentioned a little bit ago, you know?

Yeah, we subsystems. First show was it a V f w in downtown Burlington, Vermont, on March 27 2015 And from March to December, You know, we played 11 shows, Most of them we're at the V F W or A to 42 main. Andi, I think we played twice in Maine that year, and that was it. So we had 11 shows that first nine months or whatever, and then we kind of got addicted. I got addicted and forced my bandmates into this life. Um, where we started playing, you know, between 40 and 50 or whatever.

A year through 2019, I don't wanna talk much about how this year has turned out because it's, you know, we probably have better than than most. But I would have done even more in that first nine months, period. The 2015 we really in that period were like the new band and a scene that's not big. So, you know, probably 80% of the 11 shows that we played, you know, in 2015, we are friends. We're putting it on and, you know, we were invited. We didn't have to work for him. I mean, that's what that year was about.

Is stretching our legs feeling out what worked? No, we don't want to play all the freaking songs that we have. We got to pick and choose, create the set, that whole thing. And then, you know, we pulled a total 1 80 for 2016, and you know, we played a week, a week and a half every other month for, like, three years straight. It was a lot for us, and I would have started sooner. I think there was a reason, and we we probably were in some sort of a sweet spot, having that roll out the way it did having ah, slow start to that first year.

But, um, I don't think we would have learned less if we had played Mawr earlier on. And that being said, that's with the understanding that in 2015 earlier on for this band, we probably wouldn't have been investing very much into those gigs. I you know, no hotels, no travel. It would have been local, just just playing more. Um, you know, we practice, uh, minimum 2 to 3 times a week, Uh, or the band rehearsals 2 to 3 times a week. Just more playing. Nothing bad could have come from or playing more than we did the second point.

Uh, focus a lot more on digital outreach with this band. I'm kind of the production person and the, you know, the two other person. And, you know, we've talked a lot in past episodes about opportunity cost, and I would have, you know, for whatever dumb stuff that probably didn't end up working, but I was trying to see if it worked earlier on. I would have focused more of that time if I knew what I know now, then, uh, on digital outreach, and we could still be doing a lot better.

But I would focus a lot more on digital outreach, and that kind of brings me to my third and final thought, which is outsource. What made sense that each point in time, instead of just waiting for it and pushing it and just doing it ourselves because we could again. That's another point that we've talked about before. You know, my guitar player is an awesome artist, awesome visual artist. There's no bone in me that can, like draw. I don't know if that's what they're saying is, but it is now.

I don't care like I I can't draw. I'm not a visual person, but my guitar players totally read. It was kind of cool and interesting, and I would be happy, you know, each and every day to the day I die relying on him for that because I believe in him and what he could do with his hands. It's it's awesome. It's, you know, like a goofy graffiti style, and it's cool and it works for the band. But he actually for for these new tunes that we've been working on and trying to figure out, like, put out into the world.

He actually suggested Maybe we outsource and having artwork that had been outsourced will lead Teoh, you know, a new perspective being introduced to the package and everything. That is the release on DNA. Nothing bad can come of it. So that's exciting. So, you know, I would have done more of that with other things earlier on. I think there are certain things that are really important to hold on to and hold on tight for as long as you possibly can, Whether they're things that makes sense financially logistically, um, you know, in terms of risk management, you know, what do you wanna have, outsourced or not?

And it just you know, there's certain things that are just a dumb idea and you'd never do, but, um, the things they're clever and the things that would just take more way off of your shoulders and allow you to do either more with the music itself or book more shows, um, or do whatever it is that you want to do and that you're good at. But you're wasting your time doing all this other stuff because you need Thio. If there is an easy way toe hire somebody and outsource that, we do a lot of that now.

But I would have I had my way then, knowing what I do now, I would have started to think about that. And what benefits that my veal did earlier on. Yeah. Can you give an example for the listeners, Just like one or two things that you wish you had outsourced sooner? Yeah. I mean, the one example I already gave the artwork. That's sort of weird, because again, my guitar player, I do like his art style. And I would again rely on him if you wanted to continue to do that to the day I die.

But so outside of that, um, you know, outsourcing That was something he wanted to explore and we're on board with. But earlier on, we definitely weren't at the point of like, you know, we're doing our own merch. Of course. Are you selling our own merch on on the road and then driving ourselves? Of course. I feel like you kind of hit a good parody where it's not gonna make sense to get somebody else to do that until you reach a certain point. Somebody's not gonna wanna do that unless they get paid.

And if they dio, they're not gonna have an incentive to do a good job. You want to take care of your driver because they could kill you. It sounds like a joke. But you know, I've known people who aren't here anymore because you know, there have been accidents, whether it's in a van or a bus or, you know, your mom's minivan. So there's, Ah, way to do that in a way not to. If I was a spoiled rich kid, I would for sure have done that because that would have made things easier.

But I think probably the one thing that would have been realistic that maybe earlier on do, um, would have been, You know, I think all three of us in the band or are, um, we really care a lot about what it means toe make something from nothing. And with song writing and making music there, there's a lot there to feel good about. If you like what you're doing because you're making something from nothing and you're selling it to people, you're you know, putting it out there, and other people can enjoy what wasn't there before.

There's something really special about that, and so there's something really intimate about that. But I would have placed more focus on trying to explore, and maybe this would have happened. Or maybe not. But I would have wanted to at least explore earlier the idea of allowing Mawr input by the person who was recording us. I'm on every time I die Fan and their guitar player, Andy has. I heard him say it once, and then it's stuck in my head for some reason. But it's he says two things.

One I'm gonna put is much messed up stuff in 44 is I can, which I love that. And the other thing I've heard him say is, um, I've got this thing. I really like it. I'm gonna ask everybody around me if they like it, too. I'm gonna try to double time at halftime, and I'm gonna put a swing to it. I'm gonna remove the part entirely. I'm gonna play it twice. I'm going to do all this stuff and worst case in the world. I'm gonna find something based on what I've already done that we like better.

And we all win or worst case. You know, the other worst case is like all of that new stuff sucks. And you're totally reassured that, like, the thing you had at first was the right way to go on because you've tried all this other stuff. So I always like to talk about that. But I never really implemented that until, like, the last couple of years, you know, the last dp You know, we were much more comfortable on and vocal upfront, you know, with the person engineering the released like, we want to hear what you think.

That doesn't mean we're going to do it. But like, we value your input, your professional, we want to hear what you think. That's super valuable. So, um, you know, I would have wanted to have some sort of outsource that thought process or a piece of that a little earlier. Yeah. So, basically, instead of just finding a recording studio, find a producer who can also record you. Yeah, and you know, that might even mean finding a recording engineer who plays in a punk rock band that's bigger than us and you know, so they know what it's like to, like, slog around in a van in a trailer or whatever on day.

Know how to write awesome songs or a drummer or whatever. You know, somebody who's done what we're trying to dio, you know, we can sort of look up to them in that way. Well, those three sound awesome. So just a quick recap. The first point was play more shows. Don't Wait. The second one was focused a lot more on digital outreach, and the third one that we just spent the last few minutes talking about was outsource. Whenever you can outsource, don't be afraid. So, Matt, I think you have three of your own, and there's a little overlap here on one of them, which I think is a very good sign.

So why don't you go ahead? Dive right in. The overlap is on the on the drink. More beer topic, right? That's both on, and I were talking about drinking more beer. We would have done that more right, especially before driving. No, no, I would have worn bigger, like cool aviator sunglasses with mirrored lenses. It would have gone with your cut hair with the overlap. You know, his digital marketing. Aaron, you know, we both started bands kind of when the digital scene was getting big. Like we both grew up with my space and and and artists that were basically trying, you know, doing everything that you could, uh, like we had, we had Yahoo music.

You know, that's where you go. Watch your your music videos. Um, and that, you know, that was that was what you would do besides watching MTV. And so, like, you know, there was all these different areas, but it was like a designated hub for where you would go into your stuff. Well, now, with digital media in general, you can constantly be attached to the entire world. And so you instantly have a portal for constantly advertising constantly out reaching constantly growing. And I think that was something that I would definitely focus more on.

You know, the entire world is constantly connected to the Internet. We've seen that things like videos and on demand, live streams. All of these things are just huge, huge booming industries. And that all comes from the on demand. The human interaction, you know, YouTube channels have turned into people's own personal television stations because people like a view into other people's lives. I think that we started that earlier. I can guarantee that we would be even further than we are. Not to say that we haven't done great things in lieu of that, but but it definitely would have been the icing on the cake.

Another really big one that I think, is probably the most important thing that any artist could never dio is count every dollar that you make and save it, record it, track it, figure out where it's coming from and where it's going to. And then when that dollar goes somewhere, you should figure out you need to know the purpose of that dollar. Is that a marketing dollar that's gonna build your brand? Or is that emerged Dollar, which is going to turn around and make more money? Every dollar has a job, and so sitting down and focusing on what your goals are having clearly outlined goals is very important.

I paid probably $1000 for lights for my, you know, very early on in my band's career, and our music wasn't good, you know, I was effectively trying to run before we could walk. No, I was focusing on looking super big before our music punched people in the soul. You know, I think that had we had clearly outlined goals that we could have figured out exactly like the order of operations that we wanted to do things and where we could have taken that money that we were making and what would be basically way didn't wanna be subject to urgent matters because urgency is good for some things.

But it is also very bad for other things. You have important things and you have unimportant things, and then you have urgent things and you have non urgent things. And so, ah, lot of people I feel just in life tend to look at the urgent things. And they view urgency as importance when in all actuality, you have things that are important that might not be urgent. And generally, what tends to happen is if you have things that are unimportant but they are urgent. Those things actually take over from the important things.

I would put things like practicing into this very important but not urgent category. It takes self discipline. It takes practice. It takes dedication, discipline. You know, these are all qualities that their traits that take a lot of time to build up. And so for me, it was if I was able to go back and count every dollar that we had made and known exactly where it was coming from and where it was going to Well, then I would know where I was making my most money where I was investing my money the best.

And then we're the best return from my investment was coming, and so it might not seem like that's what you're doing at an early stage. But when you start to look at that and you say, Oh, wow, we're making a lot more money here. It took me two days following warp tour to know that I was going to do that for years, because when I went out and it was like, Oh, maybe I'll still you know, 2030 c. D. S at five bucks a pop. Maybe I'll make $100 and I came back with, like, $700 in my pocket.

I was like, Oh my goodness, and it opened up a whole world. And that was something I think that could have continuously been opened up at an earlier stage for myself and for my band mates. Had we been prudent about documenting each and every dollar that passed through, and I kind of already mentioned you know what? I kind of think my my third one is. I know I straight a little bit from the outline, but personally, I I would say that clearly outlined goals, you know, when we're young and we're thinking about playing shows and having funds and throwing parties and having friends over and you're not thinking about what's the end goal?

We've all read the business books. That's a plan with the end in mind, Navy says. Oh yes, this is great advice. Of course I'm going to play my chess game, obviously, with the goal of getting the other player in checkmate. That is always the goal. But unless you have a firm understanding of how to get there to, you know, you know and those things take a lot of time. And so rather than fishing around trying to find out what the goal Waas rather identifying the goal and then fishing around trying to figure out the methodology to get to that goal.

And I think with clearly outlined goals, we I mean, I would have taken years off of our time. It's a really hard industry to adapt in. And so I think, setting up goals, knowing where your money is coming from and where it's going thio and having a constant connection with your active audience. I think that combination of three things is gonna allow you to say, Oh, I'm talking with my fans. I'm building my community. I'm gonna be a go giver, and I'm gonna build an awesome community for these people.

Well, is this in line with our goals? It is in line with our goals. Okay, well, and how do we do it? Well, let's go ahead and take a look at what we've been doing with our money. How do we do it? Well, this over here, every time that we do this, it makes us this much money. Okay, why don't we try that and that goes right along. And what you were saying earlier, Aaron, with your exploring, you shouldn't be exploring what your mission statement is. You should be exploring how you're going to get there.

You want to try new tricks in order to get to new places. You don't wanna have to guess where the places you want to know firmly where you're going. You're never gonna get to the East Coast by getting in the car and randomly driving. You have to have the end goal in mind. Yeah, I love that. And that's so important. And I think that really shows a big distinction between, um artist who's doing it for fun and an artist whose doing it, because that's what they want to dio and, you know, going back Thio how he's episode again.

He was talking about when he was in high school. He was drawing flyers of ballyhoo, playing on a festival, co headlining with Green Day or, you know, ah, poster for ballyhoo playing Saturday Night Live. And you know, it was with a certain major label and stuff like that. Now, granted, those were his dreams, his aspirations. But because of that, he knew where he wanted to go. Even if he didn't sit down and formalized as a goal. He knew that's what he wanted, and that's what gave him the drive to keep going and persevere.

And here, you know, 25 years later, he's making a living from music, and I think that's amazing. You know, that's like he said on the episode. It took them 20 years to make money, but now they're making a living doing what they love the most. That's awesome. If it means so much to you, it's worth taking that time. Working a job. You hate to get to somewhere that you can work a job you love for the rest of your life. And I just got to say it's been great having you both sharing your experiences here and going back and forth.

So I definitely want to do more episodes with all three of us in the future. Because three brains is better than two. That's just simple math. It depends on the brains. Fair enough, but I think your two brains are a good combination. So I like that way. Need your your rhetoric to spur us there, James. Well, thank you and guys, thank you both for sticking around for 50 episodes. This is awesome, and here's to many more in the future. I'm really looking forward Thio, where the band I've podcast will take us.

It's been a great year. Thanks for letting us be a part of it. Oh, my pleasure. You guys were easy picks. So again, thank you to both of you. And here's that Aaron were easy. E No, I think it's James has been drinking beer. Now you're you're forcing me into a corner here where I went 48 episodes without mentioning I'm straight edge and mention it on Episode 49. Now I have to bring it up again. E did I did. But now you're forcing me into a corner and I had such a nice streak of 48 episodes and now two in a row.

That's hilarious. Thank you to everyone for listening to the show the support interacting in our Facebook group, which, if you're not a member, you conjoined. Just by searching for banned hive on Facebook, click the group or go to better dot band slash group in your browser. That's like the little short u R L for it. It's really been great to see how things have gone over this last almost a year we've been recording for over a year now. And, uh, yeah, it's been a blast, so thank you, Erin.

Thank you, Matt. Thank you. Everyone else is listening. You all rock. Well, that does it for Episode 50 of the Bandhive podcast. I already basically said it all in the outro of the episode when I still had Matt and Erin on the call. But thank you to men. Thank you, too, Erin. Thank you to everyone listening. It's truly amazing to be here nearly a year later and hit this milestone. So really, Just give yourself a pat on the back for trying Thio, grow your band as a business and listening to the podcast and trying to improve Like I can't remember, One of the three of us said it in the episode.

Maybe more than one of us, But you never stop learning. And if you stop learning, you're stagnating. I think that was Matt. But anyway, the point is good on you for investing in yourself, investing in your career by learning so thank you again for the support. Thank you for improving on yourself. Thank you for listening. All of that. And awesome. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be back with Episode 51 next Tuesday at 6 a.m. Eastern time. Until then, have an awesome week and, of course, as always, keep rocking.