[00:00:00] James: Welcome To episode 167 of the Bandhive Podcast.

[00:00:04] James: It is time for their episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the show we have a very special guest, Ryan Camuto of Royal Hearts. How are you doing today? Ryan,

[00:00:15] Ryan: I'm doing great. How you doing, James

[00:00:17] James: glad to hear that I'm having a fantastic day as well.

[00:00:20] James: Stoked to have you here on the show and talk about some big moves you've been making, no pun intended, because you have been making moves.

[00:00:26] Ryan: I did make a big move. Yes. Yes, that's true.

[00:00:29] James: So before we jump into that, can you tell us a little bit about Royal Hearts and how the band came together and what your history as a band is?

[00:00:37] Ryan: sure. So we're actually starting off, I guess this is year. We just hit year four. I think we're into year five. We started at the very end of 2018. I responded to a Craigslist classified ad, which I know is super sketchy for a lot of people, but fortunately I met the drummer and the original guitarist at a place that I had been to plenty of times.

[00:00:56] Ryan: So I knew that I was safe . we got together a couple times towards [00:01:00] the end of 2018 is I guess, when I would say the official, birthday is been a great ride so far. We got put on hold like everybody else did during the, the pandemic shut down.

[00:01:10] Ryan: But, uh, we just used that time to do what we could to kind of build ourselves up to being a band that people want to come see and enjoy following online.

[00:01:18] James: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of the, key things for your band that I want to discuss is how you are able to draw people to your shows, because you seem to do that a lot better than most regional bands can do. And of course we originally met on TikTok, so you're doing well on the social media side of things as well.

[00:01:36] James: And maybe if we have time we'll get into that. But because Bandhive is so focused on live music and touring, that's what I want to talk about

[00:01:44] James: primarily. while we were chatting about what we could discuss on an interview, you mentioned that you moved across Florida, so you're now in Jacksonville, but that's not where you were previously.

[00:01:55] James: and in about a year and a half in Jacksonville, you've built up your draw for [00:02:00] Royal Hearts to 30 plus people per show. That's fantastic. I know people who have been in the same market for 10 years and can't draw 30 people. So what did you start doing when you moved to build that up?

[00:02:11] Ryan: So I guess before I can start talking about what I started doing in Jacksonville, let's talk about what I was doing in, in Fort Lauderdale. the two markets are completely different in terms of geography. Fort Lauderdale, like the Tri-County area, Fort Lauderdale, Palm Beach County, and Miami Dad County is absolutely massive.

[00:02:27] Ryan: And the venues are so spread apart that it could be, a 30, 40 or 50 minute drive just to get to a local show, which might not sound bad for people I imagine in the Northeast where they might be used to that traveling to different states for shows because they can go from state to state in about an hour.

[00:02:43] Ryan: But it was very difficult getting audiences from Palm Beach to say drive 40 minutes south or an hour and a half south just to see a five or six band local bill. . Conversely, when I moved to Jacksonville, I was fortunate enough to find myself in a situation to where my [00:03:00] wife and I live just about in the center of the city.

[00:03:03] Ryan: So if you looked up Jacksonville on the map and you put in directions and it said you are X amount of miles away from Jacksonville, that's about a mile away from my house. So I'm situated right in the center what that's allowed me to do is I can be in almost anywhere of the city in about 10 minutes driving a highway, and there's approximately seven or eight local venues throughout this area.

[00:03:25] Ryan: So the second I moved here, what I started to do outside of Booking Royal Heart shows in this area was I went to as many local shows as I could, and networked my ass off because I knew that the internet could only go so far. But if you put your face in front of other people's faces and you shake their hands and you're singing with them at things like emo nights and you're just partying with them and having a good time, , they're going to respond by wanting to come see you cuz they see you out in the scene supporting.

[00:03:54] James: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And a lot of artists don't do that. They go to their own shows and maybe they don't even stick [00:04:00] around for the other artists on the bill.

[00:04:01] Ryan: I've seen that I have been guilty of that before where we've done shows on a weeknight and we go on at midnight and the next act goes on at one. being a school teacher, my alarm goes off at 5:00 AM so there's no way I'm staying at a concert or a show on a, on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night till 2:00 AM and then expecting to be functional at work the next day,

[00:04:21] James: yeah, absolutely. And that's a pet peeve of mine actually, is local shows that go that late. You go to any major show at a venue that's like above 200. and it's typically done by 11 or maybe

[00:04:34] Ryan: maybe midnight, if the headliner has like an hour and a half or a two hour set, if it's like a really big

[00:04:39] Ryan: deal.

[00:04:40] James: But even then, if you get to the biggest level as you're talking like amphitheater, they have a curfew at 11:00 PM because it's outside.

[00:04:46] James: And so all the major acts that are moving, tickets are playing, you know, like doors at seven, show at seven 30 or eight headliners, like nine 30 to 11.

[00:04:56] Ryan: Yeah. I remember not to jump the gun, but when we did the, we came as Romans [00:05:00] show a few months ago. It was only a three band bill. It started at eight and I think it was over by 11.

[00:05:05] Ryan: that was almost with like a 30 minute changeover between the uh, second supporting act. And we came as Romans, I think they did like an hour and a half.

[00:05:12] James: Yeah, And I've done the same thing too, like leaving shows early. I actually, I thought I was gonna have to do that with Keep Flying who we had on the show, back on episode 1 56. that was because they were scheduled to play till midnight. And I was like, that's way too late.

[00:05:26] James: And I just talked to them before the show. I was like, Hey, like I'm really stoked to see you, but just like a heads up, I'm gonna have to dip out at 10 30. And then the show ended up going so early that they were done at like 10 35. I'm like, okay, I can stay a couple extra minutes. this is their last song, I'll hang out.

[00:05:40] James: so one thing I would say is if you're playing local shows, try to get them earlier. Talk to the promoter or the venue to have those shows be earlier for exactly the reason you said Ryan is that's nobody wants to stay till one or two in the morning.

[00:05:53] Ryan: yeah. And I know that, you know, local support and local bands don't get much say in terms of what time of show starts, but book smarter, [00:06:00] Look around at the locals. If you're gonna do a late show, try to get it on a Friday or a Saturday, if you absolutely have to do it on a Thursday. See if it lines up with a holiday weekend. . I know we're gonna be looking at booking some things through spring break and summer, and even though my availability is a little bit better during those times, like I'm gonna try and make sure we're doing Fridays and Saturdays, Sundays early shows, maybe a Thursday night because people will start to come out.

[00:06:23] Ryan: But playing at midnight on a Wednesday at a dive bar to 10 people, it's, not worth anyone's time. the 50 to $70 you might get paid, you would've saved just by simply staying in that night.

[00:06:33] James: Yeah, exactly. Especially if you have people in the band who take a couple drinks, you know, they're at the bar. That's gonna cut into that real quick.

[00:06:41] Ryan: Oh, for sure. I mean, I'm not a saint when I go out, I don't drink before our sets, but afterwards I might have a beer or two. Cuz at that point, like, I did the job, I'm hanging out, I'm networking, I'm not going crazy. But still, I mean, if you're getting a tiny little door sale or a, a guarantee, Don't eat into it by, you know, [00:07:00] drinking and then like on a Tuesday night, you're not making a hundred dollars off the door unless you're opening for a national.

[00:07:07] James: Yeah, exactly. that was a great little uh, segue into playing better shows, basically, because like you said, know, it's not upped to the artist in most cases, but a lot of times you can talk to the promoter and say, Hey, this is all for locals. Why are we playing this late? Can we make it like seven to 11 instead of 10 to two?

[00:07:26] Ryan: yeah. And if the venue pushes back or a promoter pushes back, take the event if you absolutely must. But then try to book with someone else.

[00:07:35] Ryan:

[00:07:35] Ryan: make the connection at the venue and try to book it yourself the next time.

[00:07:39] James: Yeah. That's the big thing. especially if the venue's already working with a third party promoter, you can do it yourself.

[00:07:45] Ryan: you could be the third party. Yeah.

[00:07:47] James: Yep, exactly. And you'll end up walking away with more money if you do things right.

[00:07:51] Ryan: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. If you can build up your event to be just as good as any other promoter show, you're no longer paying that promoter. You can do it [00:08:00] yourself.

[00:08:00] James: Yeah, a hundred percent. And something you mentioned there was you played with, we came as Romans. Now you've also played with other artists like King eight 10 Capstone and Kane Hill. those are some huge opportunities to get for a band that's just getting their feet wet.

[00:08:13] Ryan: Yeah. And you are missing, uh, we did open for Emery back in July in Fort Lauderdale. one of the cool things about our dynamic with us being so far apart is just because I moved to Jacksonville doesn't mean we aren't a South Florida band anymore. We are now more of a Florida.

[00:08:30] Ryan: which means we have a market both in Fort Lauderdale, the tri-county area, as well as Jacksonville. And we can split the difference with our distance in meeting in cities like Orlando or Tampa. But uh, back to what you were saying is the past 14 months have been absolutely amazing with like the opportunities that we've been afforded. I know a lot of it comes down to us just doing a lot of hard work, but more importantly, it comes down to people coming out and supporting us. Our first show in Jacksonville, we played to about 15 people. That was [00:09:00] about 18 months ago. Our last show in Jacksonville. We played to about 350 opening for, we came as Romans and I have the receipts to show that we drew just under maybe about a quarter of the cap.

[00:09:14] Ryan: I think we pulled about 60 people came out most of them were people that we knew personally that either saw us a year and a half ago or that I saw at a show somewhere else. And it was insane being able to perform our songs to people who actually knew us and actually gave a for the entire, you know, 25, 30 minutes of our set.

[00:09:32] James: Yeah, that's fantastic. And especially if you have a crowd that big people start to catch on and say, Hey, people actually know this band, people are into this band. that energy can spread through the crowd, which I think is incredibly important because I've seen that with touring bands that no one's into the opener. and that makes it way worse. But if there's even 10% of the crowd, 20% of the crowd into the opener, then people start paying attention.

[00:09:55] Ryan: Yeah. It's like the illusion of value. If more people are into it or more people look like they want [00:10:00] something, it's going to be more persuasive for other people to get into it.

[00:10:04] James: Yeah, exactly. That's a hundred percent what it is. on another topic, that's why I always say bands should charge more than 10 or $15 for a t-shirt these

[00:10:12] James: days, $20 minimum.

[00:10:14] Ryan: to speak on that specifically. My ethos, you know, years ago was buy the shirt for whatever you get it for. Sell it for a couple bucks more, make your money back and look a couple bucks for gas. I never sold more than like a shirt or two shirts, a show. Like I would have like a one shirt or half a shirt average for long stretches of time.

[00:10:32] Ryan: But about a year and a half ago, I mean, this all kind of happened at the same time with the move and et cetera, et cetera. We had a discussion about raising our price to, 25. Our shirts are front and back printed. Some of them are multiple colors, some of them are single colors, but they're all good quality.

[00:10:47] Ryan: The designs are well done. We work with great artists that make them, some of them I make myself. But, so we put forward a product that I'm proud of selling and we just started saying that, you know, these [00:11:00] shirts are $25. And what I found happening was not only did more people buy the shirts, more people overpaid for the shirts intentionally.

[00:11:08] Ryan: I remember having a show at the beginning of, of 2022, down in Fort Lauderdale. We played this, little dive bar. We knew that the show was going to not be like the best sound, but it was probably one of the largest turnouts because they did free shows. It was on a Saturday night.

[00:11:25] Ryan: It was our first time in South Florida in about three months, and it was downtown. So we played to about 150 people, and I think we probably sold anywhere between like eight and 12 shirts that night. This one guy comes up, asks me how much the shirt was, I say, you know, they're 25 bucks. We appreciate any support.

[00:11:41] Ryan: He hands me two 20 and says, have a great night.

[00:11:43] Ryan: You know, if I was selling that shirt for $12, he might not have even purchased it.

[00:11:47] James: right. Or at best he would've given you one.

[00:11:50] Ryan: Yeah. Which I know at the end of the day, it's, you know, people don't wanna look at art as being this commodity that's bought and sold. But when you spend so many dollars on [00:12:00] creating the art, driving to the gigs, it's nice when people reciprocate in a financial way because then you can take that additional money and invest it back into the band.

[00:12:10] James: Exactly. It just makes everything better. You can grow and you can add more value to people's lives if you have money to invest in yourselves, that's such a huge difference. Now I wanna dig in a little deeper on the things you were doing to increase that draw, because bringing about 60 people to a show, that's fantastic for local opener.

[00:12:29] James: Now, you said you started going to shows, but one thing you mentioned in our chat before the interview was also that you joined some other bands. Can you talk about that strategy

[00:12:37] Ryan: Yes, much to the dismay of my wife, I cannot sit still. And being so far away from my core band, Royal Hearts, I wanted something to do. And the groups that I joined, I joined in a much smaller capacity. For Royal Hearts. I do a lot of the, the behind the scenes stuff, but for these other groups, I just mostly play the instrument.

[00:12:59] Ryan: But I joined a [00:13:00] band called So Over It, which is more of that melodic pop punk sound, kind of may dayish, it's fun, it's fun stuff. It's the opposite of what I do in Royal Hearts, where it's more aggressive. This is much more just kind of like dancing music. By doing that, I was able to grow even more as a musician, being in a specific role that not my normal role, but also I was able to cross promote most of the material.

[00:13:26] Ryan: and one thing that I didn't expect happened, and when I joined that band and I showed them, you know, the Royal Hearts material cuz they had never heard of it before. I got four new fans, like they all bought shirts, they wore them to the so over it shows they wore them out with their friends.

[00:13:42] Ryan: I never once asked them to do any of that, and I never would ask them to promote another project because that's, kind of unethical. But they did it on their own because we connected as friends and they wanted to show their support for me because they knew that the more they supported me, the more I would support [00:14:00] them and the more the group of us would grow.

[00:14:02] Ryan: So we've done shows that we actually have a, I have a song coming out with So Over It Eventually that does have a Royal Hearts feature. I do some prominent vocals in the song. But that leads me to another project that I'm in where I don't play bass since that I play guitar, and that's a band called Divide Inside.

[00:14:17] Ryan: This is more of your uh, breaking Benjamin Chavelle, sort of like two thousands alt rock sound with a little bit of that modern metal core post hardcore sound. It's fun again, it puts me in a different role so that way I can take these approaches and apply them to royal Hearts, but it helps me continue to build, a network of people that I can start to kind of circulate between the three projects and will begin to follow me in whatever projects I start doing.

[00:14:43] Ryan: Whether it's, you know, merchandise designing or copy or any sort of, content. People that find me in one place are more likely to follow me in

[00:14:52] James: I think that's a great point of, it's a two-way street. They decided to support you and then you support them back.

[00:14:58] James: That's really [00:15:00] important. And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier about people leaving shows early If somebody notices, one band always does that, then when that band is playing late, they're gonna dip out.

[00:15:10] James: They're not gonna stay for that band.

[00:15:11] Ryan: Yeah. even on a more practical note, if you're booking the show or you're the contact with the booker and you see a band consistently do it, honestly, I've saw a band do it once and it wasn't because they left early, it was because the severity in which they left early, they were the opener and they were gone before the second band started.

[00:15:30] Ryan: they were looking for them at the end of the night cuz they were trying to pay 'em. I was like, they left it like eight o'clock.

[00:15:35] Ryan: I don't think they've booked them again

[00:15:37] James: it looks bad on the promoter too, if they're booking artists that are leaving so early notice that and they say, why are you booking this act? If they've done it over and over and again,

[00:15:45] James: or even just one time, they don't want to have that happen a second.

[00:15:48] Ryan: there's a proper way to leave a show early. Right. I mean, we've all seen the, the comedy shows where they do all of the different, you know, insert name of exits, you know, where they just dip out or they, turn the [00:16:00] lights off and then they're gone. It's like a Scooby-Doo If you have to leave a show early, tell the people that you think it's important to tell, tell the promoter for sure, cuz they're the boss of the show.

[00:16:10] Ryan: If there's a touring band that you were there to support or that you were trying to see, but you, just gotta go before they go on Something happened. Tell them they might not care, they might care, but at least you did them. The, polite thing in letting them know, they might still be mad at you.

[00:16:24] Ryan: Like they have every right to still be annoyed because people are entitled to their own feelings. But at least you could say, Hey, sorry, I gotta go. Something happened. if you're just having a night, like if you're in a bad mood, whether you're at the show, whether you played the show, or even if it was a show that you wanted to go to, if you're in a sh__ty mood, don't go leave early.

[00:16:43] Ryan: I would rather people be annoyed that I left early than see me in like a crappy mood all night and be like, oh, that guy Ryan is kind of a jerk. I don't want to support him.

[00:16:53] James: exactly. I can relate. There are many shows that I probably should have left just because I wasn't into it

[00:16:58] James: and I stuck around [00:17:00] and people could tell I was miserable, so I can

[00:17:01] James: relate.

[00:17:02] Ryan: yeah. I mean, obviously sometimes you have to stay, like if you are playing you have to find ways to mitigate that sort of like outlook. take a step outside, you know, play on your phone for a little bit, try and cool yourself off and get into the right frame of mind to just be social.

[00:17:14] Ryan: You're performing from the second you load in until the second you, you leave, whether you're on stage or not, you're performing.

[00:17:20] James: absolutely. And fans can run into you anywhere you go. Promoters can run into you anywhere you go. one thing that I want to talk about is these opportunities that you did get the larger opening slots. How did you get your foot in the door with the promoters putting on those shows?

[00:17:39] Ryan: Jacksonville shows up here, at first I thought I could throw as many darts as I could and whatever stuck, stuck. And that helped us a little bit. That's what landed us on the King eight one oh show. it was a throwing darts.

[00:17:51] Ryan: It was our first time supporting a national band in Jacksonville, which was a new market for us still at the time. . I had been living there for a few months, but [00:18:00] we hadn't done anything notable outside of a couple, like, just local showcases. But what really turned it was joining those other bands.

[00:18:07] Ryan: Truth be told. I had a couple promoter friends that we've worked with before that helped us onto the Stan Show in Gainesville, which we've actually never played Gainesville before and we haven't been back to Gainesville just because it is out of the way. But we were able to pull about 30 people over to Gainesville for that.

[00:18:21] Ryan: But coming over to the Jacksonville stuff uh, starting to play with so over it and seeing some of the opportunities that the singer of that band was able to net for that group, I was able to now use that as references for pitching Royal Hearts. I could refer to the so Over It draw because I knew so many of those people personally at that point that I could tell a promoter, Hey, give us this opportunity, I can guarantee you we can bring 30 people out.

[00:18:49] Ryan: And it worked. At the beginning of 2022, we did a local showcase where we supported a band in Jacksonville called South Paw. It was at a [00:19:00] 350 cat venue, the night was at 150 people and about 30 of them were there for us. You know, 30 out of 150 doesn't sound like a lot, but I mean, any band knows that if you could bring one fifth of the draw, that's your part if you're the opener and you could bring a fifth of the draw, like that's your part.

[00:19:18] Ryan: That began to, kind of parlay us into discussions with bigger promoters when so over it earned an opportunity to open for Emory. In Jacksonville. I was able to go to the promoter in West Palm and tell them that I would be able to cross promote both shows and Royal Heart's already having a name for itself in the South Florida area, it was much easier to kind of get that.

[00:19:42] Ryan: Once that was secured, I knew that I was gonna be able to start having more conversations with that promoter. And we were given the opportunity to open for, we came as Romans and we were asked for that show. We did not pitch for it.

[00:19:54] James: that point is where you know, like you've established that relationship to a point [00:20:00] where it's mutually beneficial. You're not leeching off of the promoter.

[00:20:03] James: They see value in you as well.

[00:20:05] Ryan: And I'm actually, I'm skipping over one cuz one did happen over the summer. Royal Hearts did open for uh, afterlife and Kane Hill, you mentioned Ka Hill earlier. same deal promoter just asked me like, Hey, how many people can you bring? I said, honestly, maybe like 30. And then when like 55 people came through the door for us, that's really what opened the door for those even larger opportunities.

[00:20:27] Ryan: but small or large, appreciate any promoter that takes, you know, a flyer on us and lets us, you know, be a part of a bill. whether it's a national act, a regional act, a, a big local band, whatever it is.

[00:20:39] James: Yeah. I think I wanna highlight here the overall attitude you have towards this, which is, what can we do to provide value to these shows? What can we do to help these promoters? Because I see a lot of local bands who just view opening as an opportunity. They say, Hey, we're gonna get so many fans if we open for x, y, z band.

[00:20:58] James: That's not how it [00:21:00] works. if the show is sold out, then they don't even need another band. Maybe rarely they'll add someone, but if it's not sold out, they're gonna be looking for an artist who can bring people. And that's why sometimes I used to see this all the time in, you know, the toxicity of a small local scene, cuz that does happen. I don't know how it is down your way, but up here in Vermont, they're uh, were a lot of people who did not approve of musicians who are just like punk, rowdy, rough, whatever. And so you'd have a band that was very unpolished, objectively not that great, opening up for a national act and people would say, we're so much better than them.

[00:21:36] James: We know how to actually play our instruments, blah, blah, blah. Why do they get that show? It's like, well, one. Because instead of alienating everyone around them, they actually have friends who come to the show to support them. And two, because they're fun to hang out with.

[00:21:49] James: That's really what it comes down to.

[00:21:51] James: if you're always complaining about other people getting opportunities, you're never going to get opportunities.

[00:21:56] James: But on the other hand, if you build up the [00:22:00] scene and people in the scene know, like, and trust you, then they're gonna ask you to play more shows, and that's exactly what you've done and that's so important.

[00:22:08] Ryan: I mean, that's what I'm trying to do. Obviously when I was, younger, I had a much more selfish, egocentric way of looking at it, because I was, I was younger. I didn't know any better. I was in my teens, in my early twenties. I can't imagine I'm the only person that was kind of a jerk when they were younger.

[00:22:24] Ryan: But as I got older and I realized a, I'm not that good, and b, like it's a community. people have to kind of put their arms around you and help lift you up so you can lift other people up with you. Like a lot of people use that term uh, crap mentality, especially when they're talking.

[00:22:41] Ryan: the core scenes like metal court, hardcore, post hardcore, this crab mentality where they just pull everyone else down. It's like, that's stupid. I don't have the energy for that. I would rather take whatever energy that I do have and and approach it positively at this point.

[00:22:55] James: exactly. And it's so much more fun. You feel better.

[00:22:58] Ryan: I do. I do. I mean, [00:23:00] we've had shows that had not great turnouts, you know, not that long ago. We're still trying to get into other markets. Like when we go to Orlando, where we go to Tampa, I don't expect 30 people to come out for us because we are starting at, you know, square one or square two down there.

[00:23:14] Ryan: But the shows are still great. I still have made friends, I've made friends in Orlando that have traveled to see us in West Palm and traveled to see us in Jacksonville.

[00:23:21] Ryan:

[00:23:21] Ryan: that's a two hour drive.

[00:23:23] James: Yeah. And that shows you really made a connection with them. If they're willing to go out of their way, out of their daily lives to do that. That's huge.

[00:23:29] Ryan: Yeah. And I mean, they're great people. they're musicians themselves. They understand, and that's the kind of support that I want to try and do. I, I'm not going out of my way flyer other bands shows all over town, but it costs me nothing to share something or to tell somebody about an event coming It costs me 0 cents to just say, oh, hey, I know that, my band might not be your thing. You're looking for something more like this. Hell, you should check out these guys, or these girls like, check 'em out. cost me 10 seconds.

[00:23:59] James: a hundred percent.[00:24:00] I, I want to touch on something you said in that last bit there is that a lot of these people are musicians themselves. And I think what a lot of artists don't realize is that your first fans will be other musicians because they have that appreciation that you just mentioned. It's so huge to recognize. Other musicians are the people you should be targeting at first. not saying don't target people who don't play music, but the people who are most likely to invest in you as a band with their emotions, their time, they're gonna be other musicians.

[00:24:29] Ryan: Yeah, and that might be a little bit more, you know, genre specific for, you know, different rock genres. I imagine artists that are working to tour with, pop or hip hop, might not always want to target, other musicians. But in the rock community, a single band can be two people or eight people, right there you can, I don't wanna say target a band, like they're just on a checklist. But if you can win over the the support of another band, you didn't just get one person. You got maybe five. right off the cuff that are gonna [00:25:00] be in your corner and say, Hey, check out these guys. We played a show with them last week and they did awesome.

[00:25:05] Ryan: They might share you on their story. They could have anywhere from 10 followers to 10,000 followers. You have no idea, unless you're doing background searches on every single person you meet. And if that's something that you do maybe reconsider your, your aims for socialization . But be nice to everybody.

[00:25:22] Ryan: Target the support of the people that you know are gonna appreciate what you're doing, cuz they're gonna be your biggest fans in the beginning and they'll help you win over those that aren't musicians, the ones that might start coming to shows and spend more money.

[00:25:34] James: Yeah, that's so incredibly important. recognizing. Not everyone is going to enjoy you, but if you find the people who will, that's your gold mine right there.

[00:25:43] Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. And at the same time talking about musicians, There are certainly musician supporters of ours that probably don't like our music. But they support us and there are certainly, musician friends of mine who I will support as much as I can that their music doesn't connect with [00:26:00] me, but because they are friends of mine and I can see what they're doing again, I'm gonna support them because I believe in what they are doing, even though I'm not going to be their target audience for it.

[00:26:10] James: a hundred percent. that's just something that's so important is support the artists who you know, just because they're good people.

[00:26:17] Ryan: And don't support the ones that are bad people. if you know someone that is, you know, shady or crummy or has an outlook that you, really don't agree with you don't have to support them. that's okay.

[00:26:30] James: Yeah. Especially considering like if they do something really bad and they get taken down for it, you don't wanna be caught in that fallout.

[00:26:36] Ryan: even then, like if you think that they're capable of doing something bad and you earnestly think that maybe you should really reconsider your friendship with that person in general. Music aside, in terms of like what type of support that you want, you don't want the support of the guy that's getting kicked out of every show because he's, you know, a jerk and he is doing, crummy things.

[00:26:55] Ryan: Who cares that he bought all your t-shirts? If he's always getting kicked out, you're gonna be associated with the guy that [00:27:00] always gets kicked out of the local show.

[00:27:01] James: I feel like a lot of people say, oh, well, we're too small for people to notice. It's like, no, people do notice that.

[00:27:07] Ryan: as,

[00:27:08] Ryan: the person in the band. You should notice it.

[00:27:10] Ryan: You should be the first person to be like, Hey, what that person did was not okay. you feel like you need to intervene and be like, Hey don't do this anymore, and then they stop. Cool. If they keep going, then be like, Hey, you can't come to our shows anymore.

[00:27:21] James: Yeah, Now, on that note, I'd like to segue into something a little bit happier because we do have a little time here. I wanna talk about what you do for your social media and how you are able to keep putting out content consistently. or I know you mentioned before the interview that you're not posting on TikTok as much anymore, but you're still staying very active on your other channels.

[00:27:40] James: how do you go through the grind of creating that content?

[00:27:43] Ryan: Honestly, I just find the time, it's not hard to make content. I guess depending on what platform you're on, TikTok is something that I'm still figuring out. I don't know how I want to present ourselves on TikTok because of the medium. being vastly [00:28:00] different than say, Instagram or Twitter or, or Facebook.

[00:28:02] Ryan: But for those other ones, Instagram is fairly easy if you're just going with static images, if you're playing live shows, which, that's the goal here, is playing live shows, helping bands with touring. Get your photos done professionally. have your friends also take photos.

[00:28:19] Ryan: Have anybody that has taken photo or video from that show, if you can get them to send it to you and then sit on it. You impatient bands I remember back in, you know, the, kind of middle days of Facebook. You'd have a show on Saturday, and then on Monday you would do like a 30 photo dump album of the show and it would be all of the images, and maybe that worked for a blip in time.

[00:28:44] Ryan: But if you can take that, find, three or four photos that look well together. Maybe it's a photo of each member of the band on stage. Create that little slideshow, write a long caption for some of these posts. Have that be your Hey, thank you so much for coming out. We'd [00:29:00] like to thank the sound guy, tag them.

[00:29:01] Ryan: We would like to thank this band. Tag them. We would like to thank X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z. Find things that you can tag. One thing that I like to do is like a lot of craft beer and I like going to Disney and I like supporting independent designers. So I have all of these shirts from local artists, small artists, and I wear them on stage and then I tag the everliving heck out of them when I post them.

[00:29:24] Ryan: And sometimes they see it and just respond to the message, oh, hey, cool. And sometimes they re-share it onto their page or their story where they might have thousands and thousands. That's one piece of content that might go to our core 15, 18, 2000 followers. That gets now blasted out to all of these other people who might not care.

[00:29:43] Ryan: Might click and poke around for a second, or might actually listen and follow. But you can do that with four pictures. And if you had a 30 photo set, you can use those every couple days. Drop one, drop a couple. For videos, everyone's phone has a camera. [00:30:00] Not every video has to be, know, 10 ad p shot on some super awesome Sony Gimbal.

[00:30:07] Ryan: Something. I don't know anything about photography or videography, but it doesn't have to be anything more than your cell phone. If your cell phone photo quality is bad, figure out a way to make it work for you. Create an aesthetic around the limitations that you have,

[00:30:21] James: that's huge. think about 10 years ago when Instagram came out and all the filters made the pictures look worse, but that was the cool thing to do.

[00:30:28] Ryan: I have so many photos in my archives on Instagram that I look at them and I think, what an absolute twerp, who would take a photo of, like, this would be me, like at college, on campus, who would take a photo of the clouds and throw like this awful filter on it. the framing is terrible. The filter is obnoxious.

[00:30:46] Ryan: The caption is like yolo. what did you do? Why did you do this? You have to live with this memory that that was the person you were, X amount of years ago.

[00:30:54] James: Everyone from 2012 to 2015.

[00:30:57] Ryan: but now I, it's so many of these [00:31:00] apps have so much in the box that you don't need to have a photo editing software to create basic content.

[00:31:08] Ryan: I'm not saying don't spend money on, you know, high quality content when you're able to do that. , but not everything needs to be high quality. And if everything is all of this super shiny, high quality stuff, the authenticity of your project can be called into question. it seems much more like a curated art project than it does a real group of people trying to do something.

[00:31:27] James: exactly. And that's, you know, that comes back to being authentic.

[00:31:31] James: if you're putting on a front, people can notice that. And a lot of people don't like that.

[00:31:36] James: People want to connect with artists who they can relate to. So if you are just putting up a fake image, they're not gonna connect, they're not gonna relate. And that's probably gonna leave a bad taste in their mouth

[00:31:47] Ryan: absolutely. Absolutely. Connection on social media is huge. that's why in addition to having, you know, our pages, about a year ago I went ahead and we created a Facebook group. . It's not a fan club, it's [00:32:00] not a street team. they can share whatever they want to share with us and we can share whatever we want to share with them.

[00:32:06] Ryan: So that way if there's something that's not super important to where it really warrants, you know, this big spectacle of a post, but it's important enough to where your core supporters might wanna check it out. It can go into there, you can post every single day in there. You can post once a week in there.

[00:32:21] Ryan: gauge what your audience wants to do. There's a band out there Their name is Patient 67. Have you heard of them?

[00:32:27] James: can't say I.

[00:32:28] Ryan: So they are a really solid medical band out of Perth, Australia, and I can't imagine there's much in terms of local reach, but these guys are massive.

[00:32:38] Ryan: they really took a lot of these ideas that I'm stealing from them and kind showed me how it's done just by observing. They created a, Facebook group. They used their page to promote, memes and connect with people over different types of music. I have no idea what their daily schedule looks like, but I have to imagine they just keep one of them like in a room all day and just throw 'em in front of the computer.

[00:32:59] Ryan: [00:33:00] Like he's in the matrix. He's just sitting there like punching in, punching out. But it's me copying them out on a much smaller scale, just connecting with people the best that I can.

[00:33:09] James: that's what it comes down to. And I think that you do a great job of that, obviously. You know, like I said earlier, we connected on TikTok, and that's just part of building that relationship because first it was TikTok, then Twitter or

[00:33:20] Ryan: Yeah, you found me on Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'd commented on a Twitter post and you're like, oh, hey, it's, Royal Hearts from TikTok and then Facebook. Right? And then we even found each other on Submithub. Completely coincidentally.

[00:33:33] James: And then

[00:33:33] James: the site I write for got an update and went down, and now I have to redesign everything. whoops.

[00:33:39] Ryan: that just, that just goes to show like if you reach and you stretch, and reach into the different corners that are accessible to you, you might run into the same person four times. Now, into you on TikTok did not set up an interview running into you on Twitter.

[00:33:56] Ryan: Didn't set up us sitting down to have a chat. As soon as it happened [00:34:00] a third time, you see like all of these intersections and you're like, let's chat. because clearly this person is doing something that keeps putting them in front of me.

[00:34:09] James: Exactly, and to highlight there, what you said of this person is doing something where the algorithm keeps showing them to me. Because if it hadn't been that, if you weren't active on TikTok, active on Twitter, active on all these platforms, I would've said, oh, Ryan's just another dude from another crappy local band.

[00:34:28] Ryan: I am, that, I am that, But I'm more, I am also very funny.

[00:34:33] James: that is true. the instant we got on this call. we were discussing the power outage cuz we

[00:34:37] James: had to reschedule this interview.

[00:34:38] Ryan: cuz you caused the power outage of the great state of.

[00:34:41] James: By sneezing,

[00:34:42] Ryan: you, and all of that damn, damn cheddar.

[00:34:45] James: all that snow is actually snot, it's just one letter difference and they're actually only two keys apart on the keyboard.

[00:34:51] Ryan: That's disgusting.

[00:34:52] James: yeah, if you've been snot boarding or skiing, I apologize.

[00:34:56] Ryan: I kind of wanna take what we were just talking about and relate that back to [00:35:00] live music,

[00:35:00] Ryan: because real life doesn't have an algorithm. But online I found a way to put myself in your crosshairs four different times. And that's kind of what led to us getting together and, and talking.

[00:35:12] Ryan: Now imagine if you ran into me at four different events in the same city and then found out that I had a show on a night where you were available to come hang out. Like the likelihood of you coming out is now four times greater. Just because I've been able to see you four times and you're more familiar with me.

[00:35:29] Ryan: That's what I started doing when I moved up to Jacksonville. I started by looking up where all the local venues were and I was fortunate that one of them is eight minutes walking from my house. The other one is 10 minutes walking from my, and then the rest of them are within 10 minutes driving. And I started looking at what events were coming.

[00:35:48] Ryan: Some events I went to, I didn't know anybody. Some I had friends that I was making, they were playing the shows. I started going to a venue often enough to where one night they needed someone to run door. I ran door for an event. And then I [00:36:00] started going to emo nights. And I know that emo nights are like the banin of musicians cuz like, well why would I go watch a DJ play songs that I can listen to at home when I could go watch a live band?

[00:36:10] Ryan: the truth is they're fun. You go to them because they are fun. And if you go to them enough, the DJs will recognize you. And maybe just, maybe they might. play one of your songs early in the night or late at the end of the night, and maybe five people hear it. I've been fortunate enough to become friendly with the Emo Night Promoter.

[00:36:32] Ryan: And it's not officially emo night, but it is called uh, DJ Sad Songs, right? his is called Duval, is for Lovers, which is like a great name. But he is, let me come up on stage and kind of like sing karaoke for songs. And that right there put me in front of 200 people that I had never met before, singing a song that I enjoy and that they enjoy and establishing some sort of connection.

[00:36:52] Ryan: So then when I go to other places, I've had people recognize me, not from being in Royal Hearts, but from, Hey, aren't you [00:37:00] that guy that was on stage at the email? Yeah, yeah, that was me. Hey, didn't I see you at this show? Yeah, that was me. and you can start to create these little threads that you can pull back towards you when you need them.

[00:37:12] James: absolutely. It's an old marketing statistic, I guess I can't remember what the exact number is. It's something like 27. You need 27 impressions before somebody will buy from you on average. So if you keep making these impressions on people and obviously, Being in person is a much stronger impression than like a TV ad or a radio ad, or a newspaper ad.

[00:37:32] James: So 27 is, that's the old advertising industry. If you'd run into someone four or five times, you're probably either going to end up being friends Yeah, exactly. You're gonna be enemies,

[00:37:43] Ryan:

[00:37:43] Ryan: but you're not gonna be indifferent. you're not gonna be like, oh, I've always run into that guy. It's whatever gonna be. I always run into that guy. He sucks or the opposite. He's great.

[00:37:52] James: yeah, exactly. when I was younger, I just talked to the people that I needed to talk to and I did my business and I left.

[00:37:58] James: I should.[00:38:00] I'm not an artist. I've said this a lot of times on the show.

[00:38:02] Ryan: a lot of people, forget that you're not a musician with a band to promote. Cuz whenever we see the man in front of the camera with the guitars behind them, that's the connection they make. But no, you're not, you're, you're just someone that wants to help bands tour smarter through Bandhive.

[00:38:16] James: Yeah, exactly. And I've toured in support roles, I have done merge, I've done tour management, I've done sponsorship, all that stuff. to be fair, I am playing a show in two months, filling in for a friends band,

[00:38:26] James: but I have zero interest in being in a band because that's not what drives me as a human being.

[00:38:34] James: I like teaching people. So back in the day it shows, I would just go to the show and I would talk to all the musicians and I wouldn't talk to anybody who's not a musician. Maybe they go to all the shows, maybe I see them there. I didn't go out of my way to talk. I have these 30 other people I should be talking to. And in some ways that was detrimental. there are now people I'm friends with 10 years later. And if they hear this, they're gonna be like, oh, that's about me. And I could've talked to them [00:39:00] 10 years ago and I would've had a friend for 10 years.

[00:39:02] Ryan: I wouldn't beat yourself up over that because your goal going to shows, this is very different than a bands. You are in it to teach musicians. The argument could be made that if you're going to a show with five bands and there's an average of, four members per band, there are 20 people at that show that are going to be your priority.

[00:39:19] Ryan: And if it takes you the whole night to talk to them and you don't talk to anybody else, it's not like someone's coming up to you saying, oh, hey James, what's up? And you're saying, off. Like, your, your goal is to talk to other people. Now the band's goal is to talk to everybody.

[00:39:33] Ryan: So there are different goals in mind there.

[00:39:37] Ryan: Now, did you maybe miss out on some more longevity to some of your friendships? Sure. But who doesn't make a regrettable decision, you know, in their early twenties that they realize as they get closer to their thirties and, you know, so and so forth like that happens?

[00:39:51] James: Well, but here's the other thing. and I'm not upset by it,

[00:39:53] James: but a lot of those people were friends with musicians.

[00:39:56] James: So if I had invested my time into other [00:40:00] people who aren't necessarily musicians, but they know musicians because they're at all the shows,

[00:40:04] James: that would've been a great connection to have.

[00:40:06] James: Now that's not to say I'm short of connections because I have lots of connections and I really appreciate the people that I know. But I wanna highlight your point of saying you're there to connect with everybody if you're in a band, because that's the goal. want people to see you live and they've never heard of you before, but they're gonna come see you next time.

[00:40:24] Ryan: yeah. Absolutely. And we've, I've had that happen. And any musician, any person that's played a show, whether it's a solo artist, a spoken word, poet, a guy playing the flute or a full-on band, if they can get someone to see them once, that's awesome. If they can get that same person to intentionally see them that second time.

[00:40:45] Ryan: it's even better. And by the third time you're hanging out with them beforehand, you've maybe gotten coffee with them outside of the show. now you are at the point to where you could become, friendly with this person within the scope of, you know, being a musician and [00:41:00] them being a fan of that music.

[00:41:01] Ryan: you have someone that's gonna support you and maybe bring someone new with them.

[00:41:04] James: absolutely. that goes to the old restaurant industry statistic. I like statistics from other

[00:41:09] James: industries. If people come to your restaurant once and they have a bad experience, they're never coming back.

[00:41:14] James: But if they have a good experience, there's like a 30 to 50% chance that they come back. If they come back that second time, there's again, like a 30 to 50% chance that they come back a third time. If they come back a third time, they are your customer for life unless you do something incredibly wrong.

[00:41:28] James: if you can get somebody to come to three shows, they're gonna keep coming to shows.

[00:41:32] Ryan: yeah. Shows aren't, I mean, they might not be super expensive at the local, but they're still not free. You're looking at anywhere between 10 and $20, depending on the, the show, whether it's a local festival or it's an open mic night, or there's a cover, or there's not. if someone's coming to see us three times, the average cost of our shows is is about $12 now.

[00:41:50] Ryan: Right. That's the average cost. We play a couple cheaper shows when there's small local bills, and then of course our opening slots. If someone's shelling out $36 to see [00:42:00] us, They're not doing it for the lulls, as the kids said, like six years ago, they're also gonna be the same people that follow you online or buy a t-shirt.

[00:42:07] James: Yeah, a hundred percent. And getting those people to come back and noticing those people, because if you see somebody at a show multiple times, that's your cue to say, Hey, they're coming to our shows. I need to get to know this person. So they feel valued by us, by the.

[00:42:23] James: and

[00:42:24] James: they keep coming.

[00:42:25] Ryan: and

[00:42:25] Ryan: it can be super easy to do that depending on the person. I mean, gauge who they are as a person. But if you see them upfront singing along to your songs, you're a local band. Give them the microphone for 10 seconds. Who cares if they can sing or scream or not? If they're just shouting, like they're having the best time of their life and someone else sees it, or your photographer gets a photo of it, or there's a video of it, a bunch of things just happened.

[00:42:50] Ryan: You gave them a core memory tied directly to you. You showed other people how much fun they could be having at your events. And you could have potentially captured some [00:43:00] sort of content that can take that excitement and translate it across your different social medias, so that way the guy that lives in Vermont that's probably never gonna come to a Jacksonville show because he lives in the land of cheese and maple syrup, can see this person having the best time of their life.

[00:43:15] Ryan: At the show.

[00:43:16] James: Absolutely. I wanna highlight that you can do this at any level.

[00:43:22] Ryan: You

[00:43:22] Ryan: could do this at a show with 10 people. You could do it at a show with a hundred people.

[00:43:25] James: absolutely anyone who knows architects, they do this, they're playing to like five to 10,000 people right now. There's a girl on Twitter, her username right now, I have to search. It is Discourse is Dead. And she's following architects around Europe and basically Sam Architect, singer, dedicated, broken Cross to her the first night of the tour.

[00:43:46] James: And it was like the first time in five years they'd played it and she posted a video flipping out why did he dedicate that song to me? So he somehow knew her name, blah, blah, blah. And now like basically every night there's a new video of something special. Like one night he took [00:44:00] her phone and recorded the crowd for her. all this cool stuff. And every time, I don't even follow her,

[00:44:06] James: the tweet goes viral. Like every time architects plays a show, the next day I see a video of Roxy freaking out because something amazing happened.

[00:44:16] Ryan: And it costs architects $0 for that

[00:44:19] Ryan: promotion.

[00:44:20] James: They are getting thousands, tens of thousands, probably over a hundred thousand impressions by now because of this.

[00:44:27] Ryan: Yeah. One of the things that we do is we play a cover. you heard the cover I sent you. You didn't realize it was a cover when I sent it to you, that's been our closer for quite some time. It's gonna get retired soon, but the reason we chose it as a cover is it's a two singer song

[00:44:41] Ryan: and there's always an extra mic on stage.

[00:44:43] Ryan: And I don't care who grabs it or who catches it. Someone is singing it with me. One, because it's the end of our set and I'm tired. Two, it gets somebody that might not ever be on a stage performing involved. And again, whether they're good or bad, [00:45:00] they have a great time, and then other people see it do we sound exactly like the band recovering? God, no. We sound like us. We sound like how we would sound playing the song and the person singing along with us. You know, sometimes they're from other bands, sometimes they're just people at the show. It's a way to connect with that community. because everyone that comes to our shows is gonna know and of Mice and Men's song, and if they're gonna know one, they're gonna know that specific song. it's streaming online, people can hear it all. They want, you know, our version's also on Spotify and wherever else people would stream music, go stream it now. But like, if they to our show, they can steal a mic and sing it.

[00:45:38] James: absolutely. I love that. That is such a fantastic strategy. I didn't realize you did the whole two mics and invite somebody up thing live.

[00:45:45] Ryan: well it works because our, drummer also sings some of ‘ the choruses.

[00:45:48] Ryan: So when it gets to the end, he doesn't sing in that song at all. So I just pull as Mike.

[00:45:52] James: that's fantastic that you thought of that and said, Hey, let's do this. That shows that you're thinking ahead. You're planning ahead of what can we do [00:46:00] to make people feel included and safe in this scene and appreciated.

[00:46:04] Ryan: bands don't even have to go like that far. Get some beach balls.

[00:46:07] Ryan: Get some beach balls and put some of your stickers on 'em,

[00:46:09] Ryan: or write in Sharpie. we've started off sets where I just kick five or six beach balls out into the audience.

[00:46:15] Ryan: we play emotional music that is heavy. The music content is serious. We perform to have fun. We make sure that we are serious in terms of how we treat our product. We wanna make sure that we are tight, we wanna make sure that we are entertaining, but we also want to make sure that we are fun.

[00:46:33] Ryan: I've played shows where I didn't move an inch before and they were miserable. I've played shows where I barely hit the right notes, but I was having a blast and I had a great time, but I looked terrible doing it. But over, you know, the past. 15 years of playing, I've, I've learned how to give and take.

[00:46:51] Ryan: There are certain things that I might forego for the sake of being entertaining, and then there are certain things that are like, no, when I'm doing this one specific part, I need, like all my concentration, [00:47:00] I gotta stay still. you balance it out. That's why you have everyone moving around.

[00:47:03] Ryan: You have audience engagement. You make sure that whoever's running your lights, if you have someone running your lights, is flashing them and doing things, you make the show engaging you connect with the people, whatever works for your personality.

[00:47:15] James: a hundred percent. And I think that's a great point to wrap this up just because we are getting to about the hour mark and I wanna respect your time. But Ryan, thank you so much for joining us here on the show. I'm really stoked to have you on this episode. I let you go, where should people head to check out Royal Hearts?

[00:47:30] Ryan: Well, I wish I could say your local show near you, but I know that Bandhive is available everywhere, right? So that's not gonna work. any social media at Royal Hearts fl. So if you have TikTok, Instagram, Facebook Twitter, if you type in at Royal Hearts fl into Google, it's all gonna show up.

[00:47:46] Ryan: on your phone you could even just say, Hey Siri, find me. Royal Hearts we're on YouTube. We just released a song in November called Disaster. We're working on new material. We have a lot of goals coming up for this year, and we're gonna be playing some shows throughout Florida soon.

[00:47:58] James: Well, Ryan, that's [00:48:00] fantastic. And you say you're not everywhere, but that's for now. Let's work on changing that, get some national tours and, uh, get you out.

[00:48:07] Ryan: Once again, thank you so much for having us. Obviously without opportunities like this where we get to talk to people it becomes immensely harder to connect with an online audience.

[00:48:16] Ryan: But ultimately our goal is to play as many shows as we can for as many new people as we can and make as many friends as we can along the way. Royal Hearts is all about personal growth and I think it's best when we are all together in order to grow together. So thank you so much, James. Thank you so much everybody that's listening, and hopefully we'll talk soon.

[00:48:34] James: Again, Ryan, thank you so much. Have an amazing day, and we'll talk soon.

 

[00:48:38] James: That does it for this episode of the Bandhive Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning and listening, and I really hope that this interview with Ryan from Royal Hearts has given you some incredible insight into how you can improve your band's business, how you can network, how you can grow your fan base.

[00:48:53] James: There were so many nuggets of wisdom that Ryan shared during this episode that. [00:49:00] If you're at this point, I would recommend going back and listening again and taking notes because there was so much to unpack there. it really was an incredible interview, and I have to say, I think it's one of the favorite ones I've done on the podcast so far, just because Ryan is at a point that a lot of you are at, and he has unlocked some of the secrets to bringing his band Royal Hearts to the next.

[00:49:23] James: So go back and re-listen and take some notes please, because I think if you take those notes and then execute on what you've learned in this episode your band will be much better off. We'll be back with another brand new episode of the Bandhive Podcast next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern Time. Until then, I hope you have a great week. Stay safe, and of course, as always, keep rocking.