Welcome to Episode 15 of the Bandhive Podcast.

It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross. I'm here with Aaron Gingras of Suburban Samurai. How's it going today, Aaron? It is going really well.

I'm glad to hear that I'm inside with you right now. Outside. I think it's probably negative. 15. It's bad, continuing the theme of we talk about the weather and it's a little time capsule. Yeah, yeah, and so do I. But it's a little time capsule because this episode is slated to come out in March March 10th, which is a little under two months from today. So it's definitely a time capsule because people in March are going to think it's negative. 15. Why is it negative 15 and I just realized my chair is squeaking, so we'll see if this makes it to the final cut or not, because I keep moving and I probably should just use a different chair from now on, when we are recording anyway, I'm doing a very bad job of nurturing our relationship with our audience by just rambling on about stuff that we ramble on every single week and has absolutely no meaning to anybody who's listening a month and a half from now.

But we're going to try to change that and nurture the relationship with our audience by talking about nurturing relationships as a band presenting themselves to anyone, the public, your family, your friends, other bands, anyone. Aaron came up with the idea for this topic, and I think it's a really good one to cover because a lot of bands don't have a great public image and this literally just popped into my head. But, ah, long time ago on and I think it was Episode one or three. You already know where I'm going.

It's a band who has a song like I was E O, which, if you recognize that I don't know if my that's all you need, like vocal guitar, but it's trapped. I can't even remember what they did. I just remember it was Cringe E, and it was on Facebook. So now that you were talking about Facebook, I think that this is just popping in my head. What do you think about this? It's much easier to ruin your relation or maybe not ruin a relationship, but it takes a lot more time to sort of cultivate and nurture and produce, like a public persona or image or whatever You wanna call it a lot harder to do that than to, like, tear the whole thing down.

So I think what you're describing is a band did something one time that was super not cool. And now everybody knows that they did that. Yeah, well, and there's a great quote that I can't remember it exactly. So apologies if I butcher this, but it's something along the lines of It takes decades to build a kingdom. It takes one night to burn it down. That's a good one. And that's something we've seen with so many artists, I mean, and these air for terrible things like Look at lost profits.

That band just disappeared off the face of the earth for good reason. Front porch step that dude, He has such serious issues. And so these things killed the careers of those people overnight. But there are things that, while they're not necessarily bad in that sense, are still red flags for people. So things that you might want to stay away from online. And one good example of this is politics. And obviously, you know, you can have healthy discussions. But ah, lot of times, any mention of politics of any kind on Facebook just turns into a flame war.

There are a handful of artists I've seen pull this off. Well, one of them would be Dropkick Murphys. They have always been very open about what they support and what they believe in which I think is good, because they are one of those bands who kind of like the workers soul, you know, so I could see that making sense. Another one is cake who Ah, lot of people may remember from the nineties, the distance. Or if you're a fan of Chuck, the TV show, because that was that was a cake song without the vocals, obviously.

But what was the name of the Yeah, long skirt? Short jacket. Something like that I don't remember the name of the song, but it's a good song. And they used it for Chuck like 15 years after the song came out anyway, they will very frequently actually post these articles about politics on their story. But you like, what are your thoughts to the point? And I'm like, Wow, there's like a lot of people on this arguing and I'm like, but they still have fans. Granted, I doubt there is popular as they were in the nineties, but it doesn't seem to have any adverse effect because they don't really.

And I would encourage you. You know, if you go to band, I've got rocks slash 15 will link their Facebook page so you can see some of their posts What they write. They write it in a way that's not confrontational, but more provocative discussion. Exactly eso They'll say something like, Is this a great move or just furthering? You know, somebody's agenda or something like that, and they'll end it with a question mark. So rather than saying, Oh, this is awful, they actually you're asking a question and trying to get discussion, and I can't say I've ever seen any other band do that.

I think in that situation, it's actually something that they're doing well. I'm fairly close with a few bands who are very clear on their, you know, political stance for his intense as they might be with that, or as intense as they might be with like, just kind of music that they play. I don't think for a second any of those folks wouldn't be open to having a discussion about something. I think they would all come at it from like a trying to educate somebody point of view.

That's sort of a thing, and I think everything we've touched on so far I mean, how you can present yourself offline. But I think we've so far been talking about online and that Z because it's the easiest way. It's the quickest way to receive a bunch of information, and it's more often than not the quickest way toe disseminate information as well. And you know, that makes me think of another band, anti flag like their thing. And they've been doing it since, what, 1987 88? That is absolutely their thing.

It's in their name from my understanding they do point out anti flag doesn't mean they're anti patriotic. They're just not behind what the flag stands for. But that's just my understanding. So take that with a grain of salt. I might totally be misrepresenting what they're saying, However, we all have that one friend on Facebook here does nothing but event about politics in a very aggressive manner who is not open for discussion. Just if you do not agree with them, they're right. You're wrong. That is the kind of attitude that can very quickly get a bad name for you and by extension, your band.

So to nurture relationships, be open to discussion. Don't post cringe E things don't shoot people down. Don't argue. Don't get into flame. Worse, things like that just do not have a good public appearance for anyone. There's a very similar yet not the same point that we have here on our list, which is whining on once again. We all have that one Facebook friend who does this. When we were making this outline, Aaron, you, I think, summed it up perfectly with what you were saying, coming at it from the perspective of an artist which, if you're listening to this, you are try to think of an artist page, whether it's ah magician or a photographer or a band, or like any kind of presenter, like understanding those people might and understanding that you might be inclined to share some of your own personality with your fan base because I think that's a part of it.

And I think that makes sense. Try to just understand how little sense it would make if every other post that you made or every other post that you know somebody made who you know on account that you frequent like just started. Like, what would it be like if every other post it's like like an angry rant, like their mom or something like It's brand and image and risk management is really what it is. Do all the posts on your page or all the content that you're producing, whether it's photos, audio video or like just words, do they all align with all of the other pieces of content you're putting up there?

And so if you're putting up a bunch of killer songs or photographs or videos or whatever poems, but then every other every third post is like how angry you are that the pizza guy didn't show up on time Or like how angry you are, you know, some sort of politician. Yeah, sure. Maybe there's a creative or a comedic way toe like present. That or like a educational sort of spin You could kind of place on something like that. But like, Don't wine and don't complain, I think that's what we're trying to say.

Yeah, and I'm not gonna lie. One of the reasons I jumped at this idea when you brought it up was that I actually unfriended someone from a local. Well, he's not in a local band anymore, but he was in a local band years ago and I don't know the situation totally. But he was no longer in the band and just posted, like, a bunch of really bad stuff about the band and, like all his friends were on his side. When you go, you're the most talented person in the band, blah, blah, blah.

That was two or three years ago. I think I don't remember. But just this week he posted something really cringing, and I was like, Well, you don't play music anymore and now you post this. I don't really want to interact with you ever again. And that's even worse, at least if if they were posting about like their family member, or like, it's something like, you probably don't know their family member, but like if they're posting about, I'm just assuming that like, you know of or maybe even know the band like that's even worse if, like they're posting about something that, like you also know about.

It was a mess. And I just figured, You know what? This is not a person that I feel like supporting anyway, So why should I see their posts in my feet? And that's the kind of thing like your personal brand, like you were saying, Erin does extend to your artist page or the vision that people have of you as an artist. If you act like a decent human being as a person, people will have this vision of you as a decent human being in a band. But if you act like an awful person, they're going to generalize and say, Oh, everyone in that band is awful.

So anyway, Erin, I think you had some thoughts about personal profiles versus band profiles that you mentioned a few minutes ago. And on that note, a lot of the stuff that we're talking about is something that we see on personal profiles. The examples of trapped and dropkick Murphys and cake or just some examples of larger bands either doing good things or messing up on their band pages. Because a lot of the more established acts were not friends with their personal Facebook pages. So we can't tell you what they're doing.

Or if we were, we wouldn't be airing their dirty laundry here. Which is another thing you should not dio don't air your own or other people. Yeah, exactly. But it sounds like you had some more to say about that. So I guess it's easy toe like when we're talking about everything we're talking about here. It's easy just to go. Okay, well, band page, you know, and then kind of to stop there. But, you know, in the age of Internet digital, everything I'm sort of seeing, and I can't be the only one more and more musician friends or, you know, band members of either in bands I know personally or I'm bands of and don't know personally.

Here's a good example. You know Matt, the drummer from August Burns. Red is an example. Obviously, they're doing a wicked job. They're killing it. Doing what they do is ah, unit is a band. But I also follow his personal page on Instagram, and you get to see the photos from his point of view. Or, you know, you get to see what he's doing on this time. You know, whatever. Just like I post about stuff on tour, you know? Sure, 70% of the time, it's like pretty similar to what I put on the band page.

But like often enough, it's different. And so, like, Yeah, that's me sort of buying in to, you know that 30% you know, What's Matt choosing to post? Or, you know, whoever and whatever band we could be talking about, I guess the point being because I follow him on Instagram. I know that he has his own podcast, and I also know I don't know if it's a huge side hustle or not, but I know you know he has somebody fashion broken an old symbols into like bottle openers or, you know, just a little like trinkets or something.

And so I guess, the point being, I'm seeing more and more people strike out on their own, like band member, strike out on their own and do stuff like that, either on or off the road or, like, you know, warped a great example of, you know, a lot of people did or tried to teach lessons like instruments and stuff. So a lot of people have a lot of other stuff going on that's like music or band adjacent. So a lot of these people, they're sort of having to manage the brand and all the expectations that come with managing a band or being a part of a band if you don't manage it yourself anymore.

But then they've also got their own thing going on. So I guess all in all that's just me saying it's just as important to manage everything related to your band in a positive sort of self aware way. But don't forget to apply the same way of thinking about all that to all of your own socials, because somebody might see that you're a good bass player and freaking like Go and find you on Facebook and then friend request you or something. And then that person is going to be totally turned off when he sees that you're like a Nazi and they see something like totally nuts or it might not even need to be something totally nuts.

I might just take every other one of your posts being like about, you know, a whiny, complaining Think about your mom for them toe sort of be off put by that and not come out to your band's next show. But it doesn't have to all be negative. There's the other side of that, which is, if you're an awesome bass player and somebody who just came out to your show realize you're an awesome bass player and then goes and friend requests you and then they see all this extra like awesome content, whether it's band or music related or not.

Or it could be something like You're also a construction worker or like electrician's or something, and you're like we could good at it and you take pride in your work. Um, you know, they might respond really well to that and be like, Wow, I don't know anything about any of those things, and I'm never gonna have an interest in knowing anything about any of those things. But, like, I really appreciate that. Like now I know this person, like, works hard at what they dio and they believe in it.

And so, like I'm going to go to their show is like I want to support that person and what they dio kind of tie into that. Before we started recording, you were talking about a former co worker who took his extra money and runs a nonprofit with it. And that's the same thing with August Burns Red, one of their members. I believe the singer. I'm blanking on his name. So apologies runs heart support with a few other people, and they're like a mental health health organization that was out on work tour some of the years I was out there.

That's the kind of thing that shows like, Okay, this person cares about other people. So even if they aren't directly nurturing a relationship with you by doing something, if that doesn't necessarily speak to something you need, it still puts in the back of your head. Oh, he's a good person. He's helping other people or oh, she's doing something for the environment or animal protection or something like that. Everything ties in together is what I'm getting from you from what you're saying. So on that note, one of the things that we have up here next to help you nurture relationships with the people you're connected with is to follow through and be consistent.

Really Is thes air just some common sense things that I would hope everyone knows by now? The first one is keeping your word. So if you say you're going to do something, do it. I know somebody who has a mutual friend with me, and that mutual friend is not great with money and frequently will offer to split something or pay something back. And my other friend always gets upset and then to me that they didn't get paid back. But that's the kind of thing that, honestly, I don't like to get involved because first of all, it doesn't really involve me, But if somebody is talking to me, I'm not going to cut them off.

However, on the other hand, the other friend should not be making promises to pay something back and then not paying something back. So keeping your word just means if you say you're gonna pay someone back, pay him back. If you say you're going to go to their show, go to their show. This is especially important in your local scene. If there's another band that showed up to your show and they're playing the next week, the next night whenever and you say you're going to go, you better go because they showed up to your show.

There's no excuse to not go, and I think this is something that's great. I know I mentioned them all the time. Infinite signal. They post on their instagram stories all the time about going to other shows off bands in the area. So I'm going to shout out a couple of bands like the Rough nights like Thieves se days Ago. And it seems like those bands all go to each other's shows, and there's just whatever they can. They're supporting each other, which I think is absolutely awesome, and I know there's seems like that around, but it seems like that is a tight knit group of friends who play music.

That's not people who are in bands and go to shows to just, like, say, they went to a show. Those are people who care about each other in their music and go to the shows because they want Thio. I think that's a good segue into the next point, which is, if you go to shows just so you can make an instagram post about it. That would be something I would call in sincere. And so don't be and sincere eso this sort of everything we've covered so far.

It's almost a call to not do that. If it's not something that feels right to you or not something that would be something you would dio to take that idea and none of that. It almost sounds like if one were to go to a show just to make an instagram post about it, that would be that person being insincere. So that's just to say, you know, any of the points that we've already talked about? If it would be like a really and honest stretch to either do or not do any of those things either do or not do it, just you know, however you would be, don't be insincere because that's something that's really easy to pick up on.

And people will appreciate you for being sincere and being honest and being yourself. And that's the thing that you want them to in the perfect world. Appreciate you for And that's honestly going to be the thing that feels best if you're lucky enough to have somebody or some people appreciate you for who you are and for what you're doing. It kind of ties back into the idea that, you know, if you make $20 doing something that you absolutely love, that's going to feel like a million dollars. Yeah, On that note, I think one of the things that everyone needs to learn is how to be sincere with people and learn how to care about people.

Because, ah, lot of people like I don't care about anyone else. Why should I care about them? And that's an attitude that you can have if you want, but it's not going to get you anywhere. I know it could be tough to care about people who you don't know or to care about, people that you don't particularly know well but genuinely caring about people can help so much and that's really for anything because people, when they feel appreciated, will go out of the way to help you.

But if you are faking it, people will probably pick up on that and understand, or at least kind of have a suspicion that you're faking it and then you're not being sincere. So even if you're always asking how they're doing and what's up, if it seems like you never really remember what they're doing or any number of a plethora of things they're going to have this feeling of, Well, you know, I don't think that person really cares about me. They're just asking, you know, out of politeness or something like that.

But if you can have the mindset shift and truly be sincere, that is so helpful. And this is one of the things actually that I use, because I am really bad at keeping in touch with people like it is not something that I do well. I use an app, which is, I think it's unfortunately only for iPhones, but it's free. It's called Garden, and it's basically like a CRM for your friends. We've talked about CR EMS before on the podcast. It's customer relationship management software. Well, in this case, it's a much simpler version of that, and you put in your friends contact information and it reminds you to follow up.

You tell it, if you want to follow up every two days, two weeks, two months or however many days, weeks or months you want, and then you follow up with them and you can leave basic notes like, you know, if they have kids with the kids. Names are what the name of their spouse or significant other is things like that. So that way you can check in with them and show that you're a least putting in some effort. And I think it's a really helpful app. And there's other APS out there or even just making a list and saying, You know, I'm going to check in with these people every two weeks or every week, or whatever you want to dio.

But make sure to nurture those relationships by staying in touch. Don't just reach out if you want something from them or if you need something. There are so many people who hit me up when they're playing a show or need something for their band and like, I don't mind helping people. But if the Onley time you reach out to me year after year after year is to span me about your show, I'm probably not going to care about your show. It's like the famous Facebook friend request followed by a band page like invite.

Yeah, it's so easy to just send somebody a message and be like, Hey, thank you for accepting. I saw you like X y Z band. Or I saw you commented on this and tell them a little bit about why you added them. In case you know that you have no idea who they are. If you know them already, that's different. But if you have no idea who they are, explain a little bit and then say I'm in a band, would you mind taking two minutes to check us out?

Yeah, Okay, here's the Spotify link. Thank you for agreeing to take the time. That way you're showing you're not just copy pasting in the same message to every single person that you find, which actually Facebook will ding you for they will stop your ability to message people if you do that too much. That's there. Insincere dinner. Yeah, exactly. There. Like you're a spammer, you don't actually care about these people. You don't even know these people. It honestly, it does not take people reporting you. I don't know what the numbers are, but I know many people who have sent a bunch of Facebook messages like 20 to 32 people that they didn't know and then got banned from sending messages for the next 24 hours.

The details of that, I don't know, like if that Onley applied to new people are and if they could still message their existing friends or what? But either way, you don't want to get blocked from messaging by Facebook, and I assume it's, you know, if it happens for 24 hours and then you do it again, it's like, Okay, now it's 48 then it stacks or who knows what the point is? Be sincere. Figure out a way to show that you are sincere and just make that mindset shift that people are interesting, like that's how I see it is people are interesting and I like to learn about people and hear their stories I mean, I could talk all day long about stuff I nerd out about, but just take the time to sit back and listen to somebody else for once.

Yeah, I think a good place to start if that all sounds like a lot, is just recognizing other people for who they are and what they dio, whether it's something you agree with or don't agree with it, even if it's something that's like you can agree on or not. But like just like you said, just learning about somebody and sort of recognizing what the deal is and then kind of take it from there, Yeah, you know, the next sub point here we have is doing favors without expecting anything in return, and that goes again like I do not mind helping people at all.

But if that's the only thing they ever come to me for, I'm going to notice that. So I certainly don't expect anything in return if I'm doing somebody a small favor. But I would also appreciate that in between, they might just check in how I'm doing, you know, ask me how Van hive is going or Pinnacle Pro Sound is going or something like that. They don't even have to do me a favor. Just show that they care about me as a person rather than as somebody who can give them what they want.

That's really what the distinction is here. I also think, though, to expand on doing favors without expecting anything in return is that is a great way to nurture relationships. Because if you just offered to help someone and don't say anything about like, Oh, you could get me back next time or whatever, Just like No, no, it's fine, Like here, you're good. They'll remember that and they will get you back later anyway, as long as they truly have a sincere interest in that relationship with you. There's a book called The Go Giver.

It's by Bob Berg and John David Mann. M. A N N. I've definitely mentioned on the podcast before, I think in multiple episodes, but essentially they talk about different principles that you can use to become a go giver rather than a go getter. And one of the examples they use is this guy works at a big company and he has a sales quota to meet and a lead comes across his desk, which a lead is basically like a potential client that he unfortunately can't handle. He would love to take that lead and turn them into a client, but he knows he's not going to do a good job with it.

So rather than being insincere and taking on a job he can't handle, he risks losing his job by calling his competitors. Er, who has the resource is to handle that client now. That seems like a really boneheaded thing to Dio, but it is not. He didn't expect anything in return from his competitors, but the point. Waas. He gave this lead to his competitors, er, knowing that the competitors would do a better job. In the end, what ended up happening is the competitors gave him a lead that he took off and made a crazy amount of money with it and started running his own company.

Not only that, but he pulled in some other people from the story, which the go giver is operable. So it's like a story. It's a really easy to read. I think it's like 100 110 pages or something. It's a great book. Go to Bandhive dot rocks slash 15, and we'll have a link to the book there. It should basically be required reading for everyone. And I know when that and I talked about gratitude in Episode 12, we talked about the go giver as well as how to win Friends and Influence People, which is another great book, which will also be in the show notes.

They take different approaches, but basically to say the same thing, which is what we're going over here, which is be a good person. You know, this nurturing relationships episode is very similar to the gratitude episode, but from a different angle, because the Gratitude episode was about showing Howard thankful this episode is about building a connection and they go hand in hand. I definitely think that being able to give something without expecting anything in return is huge, and as long as somebody is ah, good person, they're going to end up having good things coming to them for me, for example, I wanna talk about this Any of the opportunities I've gotten in the last six years, I want to say, have come from people referring me for something or people noticing me in a community and saying, Hey, we need this done.

Can you do it for us? And that's why it's a huge thing. Toe Have this go give her attitude because people will see that and then say, Hey, that guy's a good guy Why don't I work with them? So on that note, we have one more topic here to discuss. Which Erin, this is one that I think you have a good handle on, and it's focusing on honest work. Can you tell us a little bit more about what that means? First, I'll be honest and saying, You're way too nice and saying I have a good handle on this or anything So it's an interesting idea, and I think different people could describe it in different ways.

Different people could probably describe it in more than one way, but basically the way I break up different kinds of work, a different types of work in my head. You've got hard work, which is just putting your nose to the grindstone, plowing through something, you know, putting in the time, paying your dues, whatever you wanna call it. Just working hard. Everybody has their own idea of what that ISS on then you have smart work and in a very similar way. Everybody has their own idea of what that is, and they could probably picture of the face of the person who, you know, give them crap for, you know, work smart.

But I think there's value in both hard work and smart work, hard work that has just, I think, character building, and it helps you build your skill set. And your knowledge may be in supportive at a later point, working smart and becoming more efficient in what you do. But there's a third type of work that I like to refer to, and it's honest work. So hard. Work is hard work, and it's important smart work. It's smart to work smart, but don't forget to make sure that the work that you're doing is honest work in the way that I'd like to come.

But that it's sort of thinking of that is the intent behind what you're doing. So that's sort of a callback to be making sure that you're sincere. Um, it's you know, if somebody could recognize that you're working hard because you're, you know, busting your butt somebody could realize, like, Wow, you're super efficient. You figured out a really great way to do either Ah lot at the same time or quickly, whatever, and that's working smart. But then there's another way to recognize work, and that's just recognizing that, James, to your point earlier about Hey, this person is doing this thing.

I don't know how that works. I don't know what it is, and honestly, I have no desire to like ever learned that myself. But like, I see how much this other person cares about what they're doing. And that kind of makes me care about it, too, or at least, like, really respect their passion or their love for their project. And so I think, um, if you are able to work hard, if you're able to work smart, whatever you're doing, make sure you find the balance and make sure it's honest work.

If a the end of the day, I can go to sleep and just thinking like okay, like what I did today was honest. It was honest work that helps me sleep better. Other people might not care about that. Why does much I don't know. I think there's something to it, and I think it's something that's at least tangible enough for other people to recognize. I think that's really important and you're totally right, Like if somebody is standing behind their work, it's noticeable. But if they're just going through it for going through of it, that's also noticeable.

Like you'll be like, Well, they don't really care. It's like your example was infinite signal earlier where they're like, Yeah, I mean, if they're really just totally into going toe like their friend shows and like, kind of trying to hype them up, that kind of sounds like honest work, you know, it also is probably hard work because it's, you know, they have to take time out of their day or make sure you know that they're free to do those things. It kind of sounds like it might be smart to because, like you said, there may or may not be a return on that.

But if they really do believe in what their friends were doing and they want to create and nurture that community or the relationships, that kind of sounds like honest work to me, too, that does it for this episode of the Bandhive podcast. Thank you so much for listening to our show on that note of promoting other artists. We've been given the opportunity to share the music of our listeners on certain local radio stations. So, for example, we are syndicating the podcast to the radiator and Burlington, Vermont, which is a great community station, and we're super thankful that they're giving us this opportunity.

And we have a one hour slot, and typically they Onley allow Vermont artists to be played on the radio. But for live hosts or guest hosts, as we are, were allowed to play whatever we would like, as long as it meets FCC guidelines. During that one hour and frequently the podcast episodes air closer to 35 to 50 minutes, which means for the remainder of the hour it just goes to the robot playing music. But if you would like to have your music included in the extra time, head on over to Bandhive dot rocks slash Bandhive dash radio, and there you can submit your songs for airplay as long as you have the legal permission to do so.

Which means, unfortunately, no covers as of right now, because you have to have permission to distribute it unless you have the cover licensed, In which case that should be fine. Just fill out the form and we look forward to hearing your music and hopefully we can get it on the radio for you. In the future, we may be syndicating to more radio stations so it might expand beyond the radiator, in which case your music will be heard on even wider terrestrial broadcast networks. Thanks again for listening to the band.

I've podcast as always. I hope you have an awesome week. We will be back next Tuesday at 6 a.m. With the episode about how you can save thousands on recording your next album, we hope to have you tune in then. Erin, I think you know the tagline. Keep rocking!