Everyone makes mistakes. It’s part of life, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
But, sometimes it’s easier to learn from the mistakes someone else made rather than finding out the hard way on your own. Right?
Listen now to find out about nine common, yet potentially career-ending, mistakes that most bands will make at some point during their career!
What you’ll learn:
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Roles and Responsibilities: Determining Who Is The “Band Parent” While The Kids Play
Welcome to Episode 29 of the Bandhive Podcast.
It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross. And as with almost all odd numbered episodes I have with me here, socially distanced at his brand new house, Aaron Gingras of the band Suburban Samurai. How are you today, Erin? Hello? Hello. Hello. Brand new to me. Fair enough. But it's still a brand new house to you. That's the same diff, right? Oh, just still much better than I deserve. No, it's, uh, awesome. And we're practically neighbors now to were, like, 15 minutes apart, which is closer than we've ever lived. We are literally just the other side of town. We are literally neighbors. Were Are you in the city or the town? I don't know. I'm curious, I think Technically.
Okay, so we're not in the same municipality. Well, our if we stay where we are, are someday Children will, uh, I don't know, insert something here about elementary school in school zone ings the joke. Just imagine a good joke. Well, they all go to the same high school anyway. So there we go. Well, anyway, congrats to you and your wife on getting your first home together. That's really awesome. Thank you. That makes me sound way more adult than I am. But thank you very much. Well, it's a good time to have your own place.
You know, it's, uh you can socially distance even more than you could within apartment. So it's a good time to have your own place. And I'm looking forward to seeing it whenever the virus has come down and it's safe to do so. Well, I think we should let our listeners know what we're going to talk about because it's kind of a compilation episode of things and what it is, I sound like purred happily here. If anybody's watched parks and rec, I know you got it right away, Aaron.
What this thing is is the thing that is nine missed. A expands should avoid. And so we got some great examples from the band I've community, which, if anyone is interested in joining, please feel free. We'd love to have you just search for banned hive on Facebook or visit Bandhive dot rocks slash group to be automatically directed to our Facebook group. And we had some awesome members of our group submit mistakes that have happened to them as a band member or as a whole band or solo artist in their music career.
Some of these artists have been very generous and said we can name drop of them, while others have requested to remain anonymous for reasons that will become obvious. And then some of these air also just general ideas that we came up with or perhaps happened Thio us leading off. I have one that happened kind of to me. It was actually a friend's band, but I was helping out for a weekender tour with them and things were not really prepared. I came on as tour manager for them just a few weeks beforehand, and they had already put together the tour essentially so it's really more of a road manager and everything had been thrown together by them very last minute.
So even though I tried my best, it was still a little difficult to salvage. And then two of the five shows we had planned fell through at the last minute. I've mentioned this before on the podcast, and essentially one of the venues is just They closed, so there was nothing we could dio. But if it had been booked further in advance with a better venue or more reputable promoter, chances are either the venue wouldn't have been shut down so suddenly. Or the promoter would have said, Hey, you know what?
I have this other venue that I have a relationship with. I could get you in there, but this guy, unfortunately only had a relationship with two or three venues, and they were all booked that night. There are other promoters that work in five or six venues, or maybe even Maura if they're part of a team like Middle East in Boston is one venue, but they have. I don't even know how many rooms. I think six rooms total now, and a lot of those rooms will have, at least on weekends, matinee shows and evening shows.
So there's a lot of versatility. There had a venue like that been booked or rather through promoter at a venue like that, there would have been a lot more flexibility say, Hey, you know what? There's actually not a show in this room. We'll just move you over there If something happens, like the water pipes burst in one room or something, who knows what, Um, and just booking further in advance. This whole tour was booked about a month in advance, which is pretty short notice, even for a regional tour.
By booking further advance, you have a better chance of getting the venues that you would want to play, rather than some sketchy bar that shuts down three days before the show is supposed to happen. If I recall, it was not a voluntary shut down, I don't know for sure, but I think the city stepped in and said, Do you guys have to close? So it was a messy situation. Obviously, you know, every band is going to go through stuff like this at some point. Aaron, do you have any other tips to add that people might benefit from so they are more prepared when booking their tours I think first and foremost by ways you hit the nail on the head just probably doing, you know, all or many of the steps that, um, the band did dio just further in advance.
That'll sort of allow for a built in, you know, a buffer zone we've talked about on other episodes where I kind of run through, You know, how I do what I do or what I've done for my band and because I'm the guy who books all of our shows And when we go out on the road and, yeah, I really love having a buffer zone where, you know, it sort of leaves that room that wiggle room for you know, everything to be seemingly perfect or is perfect as you could make it and then have everything all go to hell.
There are a couple of things go that way, and then you know, you still have the time to try to salvage it or try to, you know, worst case find a silver lining if something can be repaired or, you know, replaced in terms of like a night booked s Oh, yeah, I would just echo what you've already said um, you know, probably doing many of the things the band already did. You know, it sounds like they got a, you know, four or five shows in the bag.
And at the end of the day, you know, stuff happens. You know, the band's gonna have no control over what? You know, Uh, any municipality says, Ah, business candor or can't dio so just doing all of those same things further in advance That will allow some sort of, ah time Thio react to something like that, hopefully salvage something. And at the end of the day, if it can't be salvaged, at least you could say you tried on. Do you've had time to think about, um you know whether the trip is still worth it either financially or logistically or if there are other factors to consider or just if you know, things that are going to wind up being executed are kind of, you know, rolling out differently than you anticipated.
Just I think there's also value and they're being time to just let that new reality kind of sink in and accept. It s so that way, when people are out on the road there little less stress. They know what's going on, even if it was a little bit different than you know, what you all thought it was going to be, like, so giving yourself time. And I think that'll that'll get you most definitely. I agree with that. And one thing that I think we should point out is that if you're in a band and this has happened to you or it is happening right now, don't beat yourself up about it.
Just take the steps necessary to correct it. So it doesn't happen to you because in the long run, that's really what matters. It's not what has happened in the past. As long as you can correct it, you're gonna be fine. These aren't things that are so bad that you're an awful person and you should never play music again. No, that's not what we're here for. We're trying to help people avoid some pitfalls in their careers so you can focus on your music and not have something happened.
That's less than ideal. So jumping right into the second one, this is our first listener submission, and this is from Frieda. She's in the German band bullets key and before Bullets Key. She was in two other bands, and the first one of those She was in that band for 10 years, and they just kept rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, trying to perfect their music. And in those 10 years, they only played two shows with the full lineup and right before the band broke up, recorded a d I Y four track, E P. That's a long time to never put out music.
And then she also had another band where something similar happened and they don't have any recordings. But now, in Bullets Key, three of the members didn't even know each other when they formed the band, but they started getting out there and playing shows right away, and she found it irritating at first. But now she's so happy that no one was saying, Hey, let's stop and rehearse for a year before we play any shows. They only waited three months to play their first show. Uh, and she said it was probably wasn't that good, but we learned from it and then the next one and the next one.
And so they're now writing songs and having the audience basically judge them on stage and improving them based on the feedback that they get. That's so that's a really good thing to Dio, because that's how you really get your music out there and obviously there, you know you don't wanna go out and play the first song you ever wrote, but you have to get something out there. So I'm really glad that Florida has realized this, and now they're going ahead with bullets key and basically going full steam ahead before the whole covert situation.
I know they were gigging quite a lot and traveling through Germany to play shows, which I think is awesome, and that's the kind of thing we love to see in the band. I've community people realize what's going on and say, Hey, this is something that has to be fixed Or in retrospect, like with Frida, she realized retrospectively like, Hey, this was a lot better because people actually know us now. So I think it's really cool that it worked out that way and any band, if you're working on something, if you are a new artist, just get something out there.
The Onley exception I think I would have for this is something like with I prevail. They specifically waited to release their music because they had a marketing plan in place. They were already established artists individually and had all been somewhat recognized in their local scene. And then they came together and formed a band. And they knew they had a good product, good songs, good recordings. And they said, Well, we need to wait And they did. That, I think, was blank space cover by Taylor Swift. And that was the first song.
They were dropped and it just blew up. So if you're in a situation like that, by all means, hold on to your recordings and wait for the right time. But otherwise you just got to get something out there. Make sure it's not the worst thing in your local scene. You gotta be at least better than some other bands, and as long as you're not the worst band in your scene, that's fine. Get that out there because that's what really matters. Yeah, I think there's a lot of value, and you know what you do drop or what you do producer throughout their having to be something that you feel good about.
But that being said on again to sort of continue on with my, um, usual, you know, stealing really great one liners from other people who have worked with Don't let good be the enemy of great. This is a great example. You know? Don't be Axl Rose. There's so much to be said for being prepared and being, you know, calculated with your decision making and especially, um, given all the ways that we can integrate, you know, technology and social platforms, Thio make our jobs easier and to make our connections, um uh, stronger with our our fan base or our friends and they ever have been before.
But that being said, I really like that you brought up, um, I prevail because, you know, totally that to me Says don't just say, you know, we're not ready, so we're not going to do this, You know, if I hear you say that better be followed by we're not ready. We're not going to do this. And here's why. You know, if you have a plan, if you're actively thinking about the way in which you're going to do what you want to dio and you know of course, correcting or adjusting is necessary.
Uh, you know, that's awesome. But don't chase the dragon for the next, uh, you know, at 15 or 20 years, you're always going to come up with something better. You're never gonna put that thing out. So I'm super stoked that Fred is kinda stepped out of that situation and she's able toe play and she's totally right that the first time that you know anybody's man who's listening, you know, goes on, you know, like a two week run or even like a one week run. You're totally the first time you do that.
You're gonna come out the other end of that totally different, having learned so much. So that's also just as if I would argue more valuable than being overly cautious, because you gotta throw something at the wallets. Importantly, and I just want to point out like, ah, lot of my favorite bands and probably yours as well. Erin, who started in the nineties or two thousands. Their first EPS, maybe even their first full length just sounded awful, and that doesn't mean the music was awful, but they didn't have the money toe spend $5000 or $10,000 on recording a full length.
Yeah, if you like pop punk or emo Really anything in the rock spectrum, Anything that wasn't turned out in Nashville. Go listen to the drums on something recorded in the early nineties that you might have heard on MTV and then listen to, you know, YouTube bands or on. And that is by no means, uh, you know, like it's supposed to be like a band slur or anything. But like I prevail people who have done really well, uh, you know, on things like YouTube, you know, this other social platforms.
Maybe I'm saying that because I'm a drummer, but that's the best example I can I can think of is like, Listen to the drums, it's gonna be so. And I mean, speaking as a mix engineer, the drums absolutely make or break the mix, because if your drum sound killer okay, you know you're based tone might not be great in your guitar. Tones are subpar, but you can get around that if your drums sound awful, your whole mix sounds awful. Unfortunately, you cannot salvage bad drums. Bad guitar, bad base as long as you have a d I?
You can re amp it No big deal. You can sample replace drums, but then you need to be good at sample replacing drums. It's a lot more difficult to do that. And, you know, this is something I've just started doing because of co vid. I have bands coming to me who can't record drums, and they'll send me, you know, ah, one or two track drum file, which, you know it's a good performance but wouldn't sound good in the mix. And there are tools to completely map those drums out to Mitty and then sample them, which works great for Tom's kick snare that kind of stuff.
But when it comes to symbols, let me tell you, it takes me a good 3 to 4 hours like a whole afternoon to manually draw in sample accurate symbol hits that accurately reflect the drummers original performance. And if it's done right, it will sound like the drummer is actually playing, and it doesn't sound fake at all, but I can always pick out if somebody uses bad drum samples or rather, if somebody uses good drum samples. But they're not program correctly, and it sounds all robotic. I know right away they program their drums with an AMP. Sam.
It's tough to tell if it's an AMP Cinemas long. It's a good amps. Um, so many bands used tempers on their studio albums, and nobody knows it's a temper. They use a live totally. So that might totally be this after here. Absolutely. There's a new plug in called Don't Hub, which is basically a camper, but all software and it's amazing. I got it a few days ago, and I'm incredibly impressed. Like it's the best guitar tone I've ever heard from a sim. Now, obviously, we're not here to talk about gear.
But my point is, if your drums air bad, it's a lot more difficult to fix that than it is pretty much anything else, except maybe the vocal, because the vocal is the other thing that you can't synthesize the vocal. You can't re amp a vocal. I mean, you could, but you wouldn't. It wouldn't sound like a vocal. It would sound like there's an effect on it. So anyway, wrapping this section up without getting sidetracked too much, just get something out there. That's really what it comes down to put music out there as long as it's not the worst music in your town, people will listen to it and they will enjoy it.
Moving on to Number three. This one is from the deem of the D. I. Y recording guys podcast, which this is an unintentional Segway. But if you are in a band who currently cannot go to the music studio because of quarantine, check out the D I. Y recording guys podcast. They also the Facebook group really nice guys Vadim and his co host, Benjamin. They're both also studio owners like myself, and they literally run a podcast to help bans record themselves. So if you need any advice, those are the guys to go to their awesome.
And So Madam says that on his first tour in some cities, instead of booking just one show, they booked two different small venues, backed back. So one night and then the next night, he says, in retrospect, that's probably just deluded our audience and made both shows less impressive. A better option may have been to book a single night and then promote that night. Super hard. Vadim has a great point. I'm glad he picked up on this Ah, lot of venues or promoters will actually put something in your contract called a Radius clause that stops artists from doing this for that exact reason, because you're really just cannibalizing your own show like the Deem noticed.
So, Aaron, since you have a ton of experience with major level touring, do you wanna go a little bit into what radius clauses and how it works? Yeah, so essentially addresses exactly what he ran into. Basically, you you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot, and and that's that's what the name of that would be. Simply put, if I played in Burlington, Vermont, at a club, I may or may not be asked to either not perform or not announce other performances within a certain radius, you know, mileage kilometer or within a certain period of time, either before or after a certain performance.
Uh, that just allows that one performance to breathe a little bit. It gives it a chance to sell the tickets you want you wanted to sell or you know the produce the attendance. If it's, you know, uh, you know, show up and pay and you walk in thing. It just lets the show breathe a little bit and it gives it a chance. You know, you don't want to. I'm sure everybody listening to this podcast is, you know, when they first begun even in their own hometown, you know, they're trying to get a bunch of gigs to trying to get a bunch of live shows in trying to, like, really tighten their nuts in their bolts.
And so, you know, they might play the same city, you know, twice in a week, twice in a month, twice in a couple of months, depending on who you are and what you play and where you are. What it means to be too much, I'm sure, will be different. But yet, you know, for example, if I were to play a club with Sub Sam in Burlington, Vermont, tomorrow, I'm not going to play because, you know, Sub Sam does not play to 700 cap rooms, but we don't play toe seven cap rooms, either.
We're not going to play a show tomorrow and then have already announced and also, you know, promoted simultaneously a show the next week or even the next month. Or maybe even the month after that. We want to pull our efforts into activities that will be as efficient as we can. And we want those activities to kind of get us the most bang for our buck and but could mean actual dollar. Or that could actually mean effort or energy any number of things. So again, radius clause. It's just something that use a performer.
Maybe asked by a club owner or a promoter, Really, the talent buyer, anybody? Hey, you're playing on the first of April. Let's not have you, you know? First of all, it's it's January 1, you're gonna play with us on the first of April. We would ask that you do not play within 100 miles in February or March. Um, and then you can, of course, you know what you do after April 1st, our show date with you would be your business. But you know, if you have something in May, don't announce it until April 2nd.
It's really just an opportunity to let the show exactly. And for anyone who is in the rock, metal or punk scene in the U. S, you may remember and not have realized, but thought, Why are so many bands announcing tours on the Friday or Monday after work tour ended each summer? Two reasons. 1 September through November is a giant touring season, especially October for rock, metal and punk bands. That is the busiest time of year college has just started. So all the students were back in the major cities that, you know if they came from a rural area there now in the city and everyone's there and ready to go to shows it's not too hot in most places, so people aren't afraid of being in the giant venue that may or may not have air conditioning.
And then the second reason is that work Tour says. If you're announcing a tour that's in a competing market, please wait until after our tour is over. So your fans don't say, Oh, you know what? I'm just going to see them headline instead of going toe work tour because that would hurt Warped tour. A lot of people surprisingly, goto work tour just for one band. A lot of other people went because it's warped tour, and even if they don't really care about any of the bands, they'll say Hey, you know what?
Last time is? It worked, or I discovered a really awesome band. So I'm going to go now. Obviously, Warped tour is no more R I P which they actually dodged a bullet there if you consider how this year is going and last year was there last event. But if you've ever wondered why so many bands announced tours right after work toward ended. Now you know why it's a radius clause. Warped Tour was saying, Hey, don't announce anything until after your portion of the tour is done. Yeah, So I do wanna jump back just for a moment, though.
And I do want to acknowledge that there is a time in a place for you know, you were your band performing? Um, either, you know, multiple times a week. You know, two nights in a row, three or four nights in a row, multiple times a day. If you're, you know, running like a showcase in Vegas or something. There is a time in a place for that. But if you're wondering where that issue probably not there more often than not. And again, I think the majority of the folks who were talking to today are of the D i Y mindset or, um, if you prefer, you know, decided yourself mindset.
You're putting in a lot of the legwork or a sizable portion of the legwork of your own business yourself, but to kind of come at it from the other end. I've run multiple nights in a row at Red Rocks or at Madison Square Garden or Fenway. But then I've also run multiple nights at probably two or three different places. You know, smaller clubs in Boston with other acts. In my opinion, the right way to do that would be, uh, you have an open conversation with your promoter or your booking agent or the club, Uh, you know, whoever it is on the other end of the phone or the email that you're talking to and arranging the event.
Um, and the simplest reason for for that ever being a thing would be for the sake of easy math. We're playing to a room of 500 people. Tickets went on so yesterday, uh, gigs two months out and we're sold out now is their availability. The next night, you know, maybe we can rearrange other plans that were beginning to work on. Or, you know, if you're selling way more tickets and you have capacity for, that's a really great opportunity. Chances are, you know, there is a there a portion if you have 500 people or more people than you had capacity for it to fit in the room in the first place by all the tickets up really quickly.
Chances are there are a lot of those people who will be like Okay, well, Sunday nights, not Saturday night. But I'm still going to go, and I'm gonna buy a ticket that second night. So that's another example of where that might make sense. The multiple night or multiple performance during the same day thing might be part of the deal from the get go. Maybe you did what I just said last year or the last time you were in town, and it worked really well. So that's just that's just what you're going to dio.
There are a lot of artists these days, and I really, really like it. How they have, like, ah, holiday that they kind of like own or like a day, you know, nobody's gonna have to try to guess and figure out who ST Patty's Day belongs to in Boston. Um, you know, other people have Halloween. Other people have the Christmas New Year thing. House of Blues, The boss stones play that every every year. Um, you know, they have, Ah, whether it's a holiday or like a made up period that, like, kind of turns into a re occurring thing.
A lot of bands are, uh, in my experience, I see them stepping away from just beating the hell out of touring cycle for years and years and years and years and really taking a step back and capitalizing under core fans and bringing something really, really special toe light one or two times a year for a couple of days. That's really good way to do that, too. So to sum it all up, um, it's a really great thing to sort of, like trudge through and, like, understand, on the best way out is through.
So, like the best way to understand why maybe you shouldn't do that is to like maybe make that mistake early on, and most people, I would think, would kind of naturally do that or do something close to that, but definitely be open to the different conversations. That's why data is important. That's why communication is important. Because, you know, if you're lucky, you might find yourself in a situation where playing the same city two or three nights in a row might make total sense, and it might be a really great thing for you to capitalize on.
But again, if you're asking yourself if this is it, chances are you already passed the point and it's not something. You're quite right. That's a great point. And I just want to point out from everything that you were saying, even when it's a predetermined thing, that the band is gonna have two or three or even more shows in one city, they don't announce the subsequent ones until the 1st 11 of the second one, etcetera, has sold out until the show before is sold completely out because they can always cancel the show.
If the first one doesn't sell out that they can say, Well, you know what? Let's drop the second one. Oh, absolutely, yeah, and there's totally that space in between were like, if it is the first time you're running into this and like again. Easy math capacity. 505 100 tickets sell out the first week. You're a couple of months away from the gig and they sold out really quickly. And then the second night sells, you know, 8% capacity or something. Like if Europe that point in your career and it's not something anybody is gonna make money on, you're absolutely right.
Chances are you know, they're either gonna move the second show. Maybe that's a smart thing to Dio like, you know, and kind of make a thing of it like, Hey, the second night, it's gonna be a small club thing. How great is that kind of lean into it Or they might just kind of mix it all. One last example for that is pure love. One of my favorite bands. Alright, P. They broke up and 2014 for their farewell tour. Their final show in London sold out so quickly that they added a second show in London on the same night at a different venue.
So they basically had, like, an hour and a half or two hours to tear down all their stuff, go to a different, smaller venue and play another final show, which I think was both good and bad, because everyone who thought they had tickets to the final show no longer had tickets to the final show. And then there's a scramble for everyone to get tickets to the smaller final show. But they gave fans another chance to see them in an even more intimate setting. So I really like that approach jumping right into the next one on this one.
It was also from a listener, but is anonymous. It's about dealing with drama and anger within your band and to basically sum it up. If somebody in your band is visibly angry, no matter what the reason is, it's always best not to talk about it right then it should be acknowledged, and you should say, Hey, you know what I understand you feel this way. I accept that, But let's not talk about it now. Let's talk about it in like, two days because that way everybody can cool off and chances are that everyone's going to say, you know what?
We were being stupid like. It's fine. And if that's not the case, and if there is an issue then you can at least talk about it when it's not fresh in your mind and you're not in rage mode, you know, or whoever it is in, the band is not raging at everyone else. They've had some time to cool off and think that is one good thing to like, not jump into sort of going back to a few examples ago about like jumping into something and it might be worth it.
That's this is 11 thing we would be good to like, not jump into it and to put too much thought into it before, Absolutely. And I just think that's really what it comes down to. And that's just people. Skills is if somebody's really upset, trying to calm them down probably isn't gonna work like I can't think of situations where, in a way, trying to tell somebody that they're overreacting is ever effective. It's better to just say Hey, you know what, I understand how you feel. Let's let things cool off and we can talk about it later, and that is something that I've seen stories about bands breaking up over stuff like this, and it's just it's sad.
It's ridiculous and in most cases could have been avoided if the band hadn't further escalated the situation. Yeah, take some time to thank. Figure out what's important and take it easy. That's the one thing that's good to take. Absolutely. This next one, actually, Aaron is, uh, one, you added, and I think it's, um, or General one, because I know you do take very good care of your gear, but a lot of people don't. So do you want to dive into this one? So, admittedly, to my knowledge, this was not something that somebody sort of suggested.
It just kind of popped in my mind and, like total low hanging fruit. But it's something everybody I think can either admit to having done and hopefully the past themselves, or have totally seen, like the other person you know in the other band next to them. Do this. Take care of your gear. You know, I can think of way too many times where the band for me, the band after me, whatever they were, you know, on a bill with somewhere a piece of their gear malfunctions, and it's a piece of gear that shouldn't be malfunctioning in that way or shouldn't be malfunctioning in that time.
Things happen. Strings, you know, do break even. You know, if you do, you know, change your strings regularly. Take care of your guitar, bass or other stringed instrument. Whatever. You know, sticks do break, you know, people do, you know, break their heads. Sure. Um, but there are things that you can do to sort of mitigate the risk thio any of those things, you know, changing your string, stretching out your your heads. You know, before you beat them up too badly. Amplifiers, electron, ICS. Um, you know, make sure that you aren't, um, carrying them loose in your trailer or in your band or your car or whatever.
Um, I mean, it's it's everything that we already all know the answer to. Just take care of your gear. If it's an investment, treat it that way. It's gonna make your lives easier. It's gonna make everybody who you know who you perform with, make all their lives easier, and you're going to appear to be much more put together when you are sharing a bill with bands from out of town or bands from your town who you know, maybe you haven't run into before. So again, not user generated, I just It's a low hanging fruit.
Everybody gets, and it's one of those things until you start to do it. Or, you know, again, you could take it too far. I think I treat my instruments better than I treat myself, which probably isn't great all the time. But, you know, again, it's an investment. You know, those sorts of things will show, and it's that's that's sort of a good reputation. Toe have that. You know? Hey, you're always reliable. Um, you're always sounded good. Your stuffs, you know, the aesthetic could be whatever it is that you want it to be based on what kind of style performance you're putting on.
But, you know, the sound is what we're all talking about. And, um, you know, there are certain things that need to happen for whatever it is you're playing to make the sound you Absolutely. And I think one thing of that which we've seen far too many examples off in recent years, is bands getting all their gear stolen. One of the easiest things that a band could do to take care of their gear on the road is always know where it is and have someone keep a nigh on it.
Never leave it unattended. If that means you have to lug everything into your hotel room, that's fine. Do it. 10 minutes of loading in stuff to hotel room is way less stressful, even if you could do it every night on a month on tour than having all your gear stolen. Yeah, I think about security and think about insurance. Insurance is something that I'd never ever want to have to use. But I have it that's there. If the worst thing in the world happened, I know that I'd be renew marinated and there may be a little bit of a delay, but I will be able to replace what it is that I lost or what was damaged by somebody stealing something or damaging something.
So that's a no brainer. Eyes the insurance. But yeah, to your point, just think about the risk. Think about the weak points, the theft, security, any of the risk and then just do it. You can to try toe mitigate that, to be direct and frank and, to put it bluntly, be the kind of person who, if one of your band members ever says it will be okay, you should be the kind of person who won't want to be in a band with them anymore. Yeah, because something will happen at some point.
And the best thing you could do is just try to get you know, speaking of insurance, they're only gonna pay out if you can prove what you have. So you should also have a gear manifest that is up to date. Because if you only have a list of your gear from two tours ago, they're going to say, Well, this is, you know, six months old. How do we know that all of this was with you? We're not gonna pay out on this unless you can prove it.
But if you can say, Hey, this is the gear manifest that we created two weeks ago specifically for this tour, they're gonna believe that you have it. At least they're much more likely to do it. One other thing that you could dio, because sometimes the entire trailer gets stolen is make sure you have a GPS tracker on the trailer. Conceal it as best you can. So the thieves that steal it when it happens, because it's more when, instead of if I don't find it so easily and hopefully you can track them down.
Another thing is, if you have key pieces of gear, you could get one those little tile trackers for, like, 20 bucks and put it in there. I've got one of those and every one of my cases. The range is limited and it's not, You know, something I paid two or $500 for or something. But it's something and it's cheap, absolutely. And it's the kind of thing that it relies on somebody having the tile app on their phone nearby. I think it's like 100 ft or 200 ft. But you know what?
If the thieves take the stuff to a pawnshop or something, you're probably gonna have at least one person who walks into that pawnshop and has the tile app on their phone. And then you know it's at the pawnshop. Even if it's not there anymore. Tile will show you the last known location. You could go into the pawn shop and say, Hey, this is what I was looking for we see that it was here, who'd you sell it to or who brought it in? Because then you have more evidence that, yes, it was stolen.
You could go to your insurance. Yeah, so I get child not the, you know, and I'll be out. But it's just it's a really good example of something that's really relatively cheap, and it's easy. But again, if you're bringing multiple pieces of, you know, gear that have either dollar or sentimental value, it's a good idea. Thio GPS unit to, you know, take whatever steps that you can to try to mitigate any risk because, as you said, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of just cruising right onto Number six.
We have banned mentality, and from what I can see here, Erin is that basically everybody in the band should make sure that they're on the same page and have the same goals for what they want the band to be is a my reading that correctly. Yeah, so there ah, few points that were suggested that this one in the next couple, that air kind of intermingled but exactly making sure that your outlook on what a project could be eyes somewhat related to the people who you're trying to work with on that project were all musicians or performers of some kind, um, or have to do with that world in some way.
And the best thing that you could do for yourself and for others is to be honest about your intentions. Intentions can change. Everybody knows that. But it's ah really great thing to be able. Thio uh, you know, be honest, Bond. That's not presuming that anybody or would ever be dishonest. But I think we've all already, you know, hopefully in the early years been in that band or have known that band who, you know, maybe the members, what they want to get out of the project. The idea, remember, remember, isn't necessarily aligned that well.
And maybe everybody kind of having a separate outlook is your thing, or that's something that's totally fine, in which case, more power to you. But again, just having the discussion is really worth it. And, you know, I don't know if this person has gone through this. I'm assuming we kind of all have. So I'm assuming, yes, but just be open with your band members. And if it's something where you really want to hit something hard and tour or record or maybe not tour or maybe not record, Uh, just be honest about your goals.
Um, so that way, you know, you're not kind of like paddling with nowhere to go, you know, making sure that again your your time and your energy is is spent in the most efficient way possible. So you're you're going somewhere If you want to be going. Essentially, you don't want Thio be that band where you wanna tour the world and the other band mate wants to stay home and have a family. And under the third person, it was like, Well, you know, I can tour a couple months here and there.
But, you know, I'm not really ready to go full time because that's just gonna lead to conflict and potentially even resentment. Either you're going to start turning down shows. That would be a huge opportunity, and the person who wants to play those shows will resent the people holding that person back. Or the people who want to have a family life will resent the band because they're getting pulled away from their family. So it's not a good outcome for anyone involved and can definitely lead to some sticky situations.
And I have seen bands pretty much full apart because of this or, you know, we're only one member is left because the rest of the band said, You know what? We want to stay home. We can't do this. That's exactly the reason why the discussion and bringing up the specifics is really worth it because it's sort of a generic. Let's see how far we could take this thing. Yeah, I could like, totally mean one thing to one person and could totally mean something absolutely different to another person.
So even if it's, you know, something that's a decade away, something that just totally you are not thinking you're ever I wanna tour the world. I want Thio. You know those those huge sort of fantasy items. If that's how you feel, it's important to be like, honest about that and say, like I wanted to as much as possible. By that I mean, I want to minimize the amount of time I'm at home being that specific. It's gonna help you in the long run because it's gonna make sure that your positions and the best way that you can, uh, to be, you know, working with the people who are like minded or the people who will complement that mindset, even if it's not the same.
But it's also going to do a lot of good for two people around you because, as you said, James, the band Dad might be like an actual dad or other people who aren't the band dad or even if they are, they might have other responsibilities, or they might think that that's great. But my mom's sick and I got to take care of her. Or, you know, there are a million things that are both like pretty heavy. Or, you know, maybe it's a simple is the person just Hey, I like it, but I don't love it.
That happens to and so sort of pointing out those specific details of like, I wanna minimize the amount of time I'm going to be home and I'm not kidding about that or, um, you know, here's how my budget looks and here's how much I can be away from home and doing this, and I wanna work towards a shift with that, but I'm not there yet, so that's my intent. But I'm not physically capable of doing that. That happens a lot to you know, they're a Brazilian. People kind of stuck in that middle ground where they're working towards something, even though they might not already be there.
Um, so again, be as specific as you can or as specific as your comfortable with with your bandmates and your teammates. And then that's just gonna help you make sure that you are driving the right bus and that the right people are on the bus. No one's being thrown under the bus Great. And I just want to mention that these last four items 6789 or all in a way, mindset related or interpersonal related mistakes, because that's a really common thing. Just overarching is that people make mistakes with their interpersonal relationships, and this next one is actually about your relationship with yourself.
You have to practice self care. It's a simple is that it really comes down to you. You have to make sure that you don't say yes to every single thing because if you do, you're going to burn yourself out way too quickly. And I think, Erin, you wanted to shout out a past episode, which was number 14 roles and responsibilities. Determining who is the band parent while the kids play. So if anyone hasn't heard that episode yet, or if you want a refresher, just head on over to Bandhive dot rocks slash 14 that's the number 14, and you can check out that episode.
You had a great example for this one. Erin, do you want to go ahead and drop that example real quick? Yeah, so there are two ways you kind of look at this. The first way is not the way that I had interpreted this, but it's sort of, I think, probably the first thing that comes to mind. If you're like in a band and it's like a band opportunity, it's, you know, not saying yes to everything in terms of, like all the shows, all the recording opportunities or this promotional opportunities.
That's important because you do need to think of your band and your group is like a unit as well. But I had sort of interpreted this as like on the individual level, Mu is a piece of the band, and so that's why I thought it was It would be a good tie into the roles and Responsibilities episode is, as I'm sure we covered in that episode and tour at the point where you are in a financial spot and maybe, ah, social spot or like a structural spot with your bend being a business to either employer or begin toe, bring in people from the outside to sort of serve as auxiliary members on your team.
Whether it's you know, the people in the dirt with you like tm merch, production or, you know, business manager accountant. Things like that. You are going to be divvying up those and many, many, many other roles between yourselves and yourselves being you and together. Bandmates you have because you're all that will be and nobody will care about what you're doing more than you dio. And so you want to make sure that you understand that, and I think you would probably want to make sure that you have a solid grip on who is responsible for what.
It's a conversation it should be. The goal shouldn't be Thio overburden anyone person with more than they can handle because they're gonna break. Whether it's 10 days or 10 years, too much is too much, and only that person can really tell. So said no. It would probably also be important to make sure you are promoting ah, culture of acceptance or like being open and kind of, you know, where. It would be okay to talk about that sort of a thing, because really, you're in it for yourself. But you're also in it for the band.
And if one person breaks down, all the roles and responsibilities that have been assigned to that person are probably going to go with them. So it kind of circling back up to some it out, I think sort of how I had interpreted that would be making sure you don't say yes to too many of those roles and responsibilities as they might be assigned within the band. All bands don't operate this way, but Sub Sam does, and I'm a really big I really like the idea of all for 11 for all.
So where in Sub Sam I do you know it? Probably 99. 8% of all things that could be considered business just in terms of organization, or or, you know, maybe the finances or the planning in the booking of the tours and all of that stuff. That was a conversation. There was a conversation around, you know, who possesses what skills or what background, who's willing at the time of the conversation to do what? But, you know, I don't doubt for a second that, you know, either one of my band mates would be 110% open to a conversation Should I want to revisit that?
And I think that's to me what this bullet point had been kind of trying to get at, just making sure that you don't overburden others and more importantly, yourself because you know the airplane rule, you gotta put your own mask on before you help somebody else. So if you kill yourself and hyper extend yourself, you know you're not going to be any good to anybody. And that's, you know, performing in the group. That's kind of the whole point. You're a part of something, absolutely, and I think it's so important what you're saying, that you have to understand how much you can take on before you just snap and can't do anything else, because then you can't do even the simple stuff.
That's really what it comes down to is just understanding your limits and maintaining yourself within those limits. I think that's really what you're trying to say, right? Yeah, it's just something to kind of let sink in. And, you know, hopefully our listeners gun have that conversation or hopefully they've already had, you know, some sort of conversation like that. Well, sounds good. And since this next one is also yours, do you want to just hop right in and take it away? Yeah. And so this next one, actually, it feeds directly from the last one, which is we're calling it Learn to walk away.
The first thing that pops in my mind is that kind of sounds like one potential result from, you know, everything. I just monologue about one interpretation of it could be if something is too much, you know, make sure that you can have that conversation and walk away, if that's what needs to happen. Um, but at the same time, kind of jumping back to I think, two points ago, where you know you want to make sure that everybody is sort of intent of like what the project would be and where it's headed is sort of similar.
This could sort of be one result from talking and thinking about that. It could be, you know, Hey, I wanna make sure that I'm not pulling a bunch of my time or my energy or other resources into the void into something that won't either produce something or be efficient or move something forward again. There, I think, are a lot of people who listen to this podcast who like to just enjoy what it is that they do. And it's that simple. And that's awesome. That's one way that a lot of people think and another way would be, Well, no, I want to do but and they have a really specific plan for what it is that they want to dio, um And so this is another, you know, really great, I guess.
Sub bullet for just making sure that you're communicating with your partners. Plans change, ideas, change. Everybody knows that because it happens to everybody but just keeping open dialogue. Um, and so you know, if something isn't working. There is nothing I should say. I assume that there's nothing in writing that says You can't just walk away. They're absolutely maybe something in writing that absolutely does. Say, you can't walk away So don't if you can't but make sure again it's coming back to your mental health and your well being and yourself care.
I think what this was trying to get at my interpretation of it is, uh, you know, don't be afraid. Toe pull the plug. It's a It's a sad thing, but that might, uh, enable you to do something that will fulfill your will, fulfill ume or you might get more out of it and that kind of ties into a term that we've used a few times on the podcast. It's opportunity cost. If you're spending 110% of your time and energy on something that totally the extreme but isn't going anywhere for one reason or another in the way that you want it, Thio, you could spend all of that time and energy on something that really could in a way that you do want it. Thio.
Fortunately, I've never really had toe make that call it's, ah, difficult decision to make, But that's important to understand that it's never too late to reinvent yourself or hit the refresh button. And quite often that can be exciting. Don't do it too much, because I think then you'll probably establish a reputation that, like I wouldn't wanna have, you know, don't quit bands every other day. But, you know, if you're the kind of person who eyes listening to this, you probably care about what it is that you're doing.
And you put a lot of definitely and to go back to what you said about not walking away. If it's something in writing that you can't even if there is something in writing, unless the people you're working with are absolute monsters. If you go to them and say, Hey, I wanna make an exit like can we work something out? They'll work with you to say, Hey, you know what? Yeah, we've got shows booked for the next month and a half like, Are you comfortable just playing this last run?
And then we'll find someone else for anything after that, like you don't need toe stay with us for another two years like your contracts as or whatever terms it It's like Thanks for letting us know. We will work it out like we understand how you feel. And like I say, unless the person that is controlling the contract is an absolute monster, they will work with you. So I just wanted to toss that two cents in there because I know otherwise that could be an incredibly difficult place to be stuck in.
Essentially, that's a really good point. Because, you know, like you said, unless you're a monster, you know, they're not gonna wanna milk somebody who doesn't want to be there. Because the works probably not gonna be is good as if it was coming from somebody who did want to be there. Exactly. And people will notice it. I remember years ago, I think was 2013. I saw sick puppies for the last time. And they're singer and bass player. We're arguing on stage mid song, just yelling in each other, and they used to yell at each other, and they'd be smiling.
Now they're yelling, and they were both looked really upset on stage away from the mic, so you couldn't hear it, But you could see that they were angry and it happened two or three times during the set. It's like something's not good there. And a year or two later, the singer got kicked out of the band. So it's definitely something that bands do need to learn to walk away when they need to. I think it would have been a lot better if they had said, Hey, let's take a year off from touring and chill and like, just be away from each other That's not how it ended.
Unfortunately for them, we got one more point for you, and I think this is probably one of the best ones of all. And this is why we saved it for last. And it's from Dave. He's another one of our listeners. He's in the band Broad Wing, and he's also the host of the waking up from work podcast. He says his biggest mistake so far has been picking band members off of their playing abilities and not chemistry and shared vision. So it ties a little bit into the point of band mentality that we talked about but also goes so much deeper because Dave is absolutely right.
You can find the best guitar player in the world. And if they know they're the best guitar player in the world, they're gonna have an ego about it, most likely, and they're not gonna be happy playing, you know, local bars or something like that. So Dave goes on and says, getting someone quickly so you can play one show makes it so your band can't play shows for months when it breaks up. Because you didn't find the right people that work together. The best bands last the longest and have the time to get better and better.
It doesn't matter what you do if you can't continue momentum with the same people are banned. And this is so true if you look at big bands, most of the biggest names out there have been together for a long time. Com Shine has been around for 25 years or so. They've never had a lineup change. A f. I has not had a lineup change since 1998 Green Day. I think their trade joined the band after the original German quit in like 1991 and then you see some of these bands specifically, I'm looking at metal core bands who started in the mid two thousands.
And the lead singer is the only original member. And there have been at least five different people in every other position of the band who last between six months and three years. And then they get rotated out. That's not good, and I can't say that those people have been picked on their pure playing ability. But there's something wrong. If you keep cycling through members, there's probably an issue. And if you're the person who's steady in the band, you might be the issue. That's just what I'm going to say, and I'm not saying that has anything to do with what Dave said, except for the fact that the bands were the most successful.
Stay together, I will say. Speaking of metal core, though, the example we were talking about before the podcasts, I think it was Parkway Drive out of Australia. I think there was a time where they had a different bass player than they do now. This is from memory, so it may not be 100% on point. But I think the bass player that they had, they, you know, had begun to make a name for themselves. I think they may have even been enter and Europe, Southeast Asia. I think it was the bass player who became a father or there was some other large, you know, a life change.
And, um, I think, you know, either from one direction or another, somebody realized, you know, you know, maybe this person's instead of priorities should be different. And so that's how they found the bass player who they have now. James, I think you looked it up. I think it's like pig. I can't remember if that's the dude's name they have now or the nickname the guy has now. Or if it was the old bass player. But whoever they have now was like totally already in their circle. I can picture his face because I I loved that band, but I'm just horrible names.
But he was totally sounded like a member already. He was already there friend, and I think they outline exactly this and one of their documentaries. Maybe, just like, hey, this person can learn what it is that they need to do. Just like any other bass player who may already be amazing, can learn the parts. You know this guy can, you know, dig in, learn what he needs to dio. But the hard part is already done like we already know that we love just looking at it now.
Very close on the name Pig is their rhythm guitarist pie is the baseball No, no. So they don't make it easy. It's only a one letter difference, but yeah, hi or G A. O Connor, as he was known. And apologies. If j. Is not pronounced JIA, he was there merch guy before he started playing bass for them after two previous basis. And this is another great example because they have not had a lineup change since 2006 or 2007, when JIA took over or pie, I should say, because I know how to pronounce pie and in fact, he is the only person who is not unoriginal member.
So it ties back into what Dave was saying. The best bands stay together and have that time to grow. And again, I've seen so many other metal core bands, especially metal core bands, but also Scott bands like really big fish and I shouldn't pick on real big fish because I love their music, but they have one original member, and there are a rotating cast and crew. But I think a big part of that is their style. Band with like seven members and people and Scott bands are usually in short supply in the rock scene.
I know there, I believe the trombone player just got picked up to play with the interrupters, and obviously they're gonna pay more than really big fish at least right now because really big fish is sticking around. But the interrupters air huge so I can understand changes like that. And I think to an extent, you know what lineup changes. They're okay, especially if it's like you're touring group. But if it's your core group of artists who write and record, you want to keep that study for a long as you possibly can.
And that's probably gonna mean not picking the people who are the best at what they do, not picking the people with the egos but picking the people who are good, hang and just are having fun and want to make a career out of what they love doing. To be honest, that's our hope for all of you. And that's why we're talking about these mistakes that should be avoided. Because if you can avoid mistakes that are just going thio make your career painful. That's gonna make things easier for you that does it for another episode of the Bandhive podcast.
We really hope that you enjoyed this episode about nine things that you should avoid. So your band is better off as a whole as a business. Personally, however, you wanna look at it. These are all things that unfortunately, far too many bands dio and sometimes don't even realize that they're making a mistake. So please really think about your band, your business. Look at yourself and see if you're doing any of these things. And if you are discussed with your band members, see if you can come up with ah, solution or rather, a resolution so you can avoid continuing these mistakes.
We'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or maybe even mistakes you've made. Just head over to Bandhive dot rocks slash group or search for banned hive on Facebook to join our group and please join the discussion there. Like I said, We'd love to hear what your thoughts on this are or if you have any mistakes to add. Thanks again. So much for listening. We absolutely appreciate it. We hope you have a Knauss, um, week. And of course, as always, keep rocking E.
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