Welcome to Episode 46 of the Bandhive Podcast.

It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross, and I'm here with Matt Hoos of alive in Barcelona. How are you doing today, Matt? I'm doing pretty awesome. James.

How about you? How you doing over there on the east side? Things are good here. It is getting very cold very quickly, but I'm sure it's the same out in Colorado. Yeah, it is the season. You never know. Here it could be 100 degrees one day and then 30 the next. Yep. That's how it goes. It's supposed to be up to 70 next week. In our low this week was, like 28. So I feel your pain. But anyway, I'm glad to hear you are doing well. And this episode is actually a listener request from the band first frontier supercool banned from the UK, and they just released their first single called Take Cover.

Really Awesome. Single. If you're listening to this episode, you'll probably enjoy that song. So go check it out. They had a question about capitalizing on the release of a single, and obviously they have, ah, long term plan in place, but they were wondering if there's anything else that they could do to just get some extra exposure for that single. So this episode is all about capitalizing on a single that you release, and we're gonna kind of take a step back first and talk about the goals of releasing a single and that you had called it attention marketing.

So I think if you just jump in right there and talk about what you mean by that, that'll be a great place to get people in the right mindset. Absolutely. I'd love to you. So we are in the on demand age. We have so many resource is at our fingertips phones that can order us food and have people deliver it to us without ever having to talk to a single person. This on demand lifestyle. You know, we we can watch movies on our TV, we instantaneously can look things up on Google.

This has created a short attention span in people. Now. I would ask all of our listeners to take 10 seconds and try to think of who the number one artist was two months ago. I have no idea myself, and that's because they are constantly trying to vie for my attention, and so is everybody else in the industry. This is attention marketing. There's so much stimulation going on in terms of media. It's your job as an artist to try and hold the attention of your listeners. This is sometimes referred to as an engaged audience on social media platforms.

Facebook usedto have the talking about, Ah, little icon or a little whatever they call, you know, 6, 1600 people talking about this person. This is all attention marketing. I used to love that number because it really showed you how active and engaged your audience waas with attention marketing and so many things happening so fast. If you aren't constantly putting your products in front of your listeners and in front of your audience, then you're gonna fall by the wayside. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to put it and really boil it down because it's such an intense, complex thing to really put music out there and keep someone's attention.

And for me, I can't even tell you who I was listening to two months ago. And it was probably some banned from 15 20 years ago because that's how I roll more often than not. But when music really strikes me, I can remember that. So for most of April, I was listening to enter Jakarta's new album that was literally like the last two weeks of April in the first two weeks of May. I think I listen to that album on a daily basis, probably more than once a day.

It was great, and I can remember that because that was a moment in time, and I don't think this was intentional. But a lot of their lyrics connected with the pandemic, but considered it came out in April. There's no way they had preplanned that it just happened. And then especially going on into the end of May and June, when all the protests were happening, the lyrics connected to that as well so I don't know. Maybe the band has a time machine or something, and they knew it was going to go down in 2020.

But either way, that album just connected with me on such a deep level. And I've never been in Inter Sicari fan before. You know, they've been around for like, 15 years, and I found out that the first year I did work tour fun story I'd only did half the tour and I left on. I think it was July 10th and they came on and did the second half on July 11. I was like, Oh, I could have seen them live a good life, too, Granted, I mean, I wasn't a fan of the time, but I would have at least seen them And, uh, yeah, myself.

I skipped him at warp 2010 for 2011. 1 of one of those years when I was just There is a person not working. I skipped them and saw, like, really big fish instead, which was also a blast. So yeah, it was fun. It was worth it. Those guys were incredible also. Yeah, agreed. But anyway, what that enter Shakeri album did for me was it created a moment like a memorable moment. And when you're releasing a single, you need to create a much content as possible around that to keep attention like you were saying that.

So, you know, obviously you have this song and then you can do videos for the songs, But you can also do promo clips in studio clips. You could do giveaways to get people talking about it or going back. Matt, you mentioned somebody could do, at least of all session. We had Aaron Zimmer of least of all sound recordings on Episode 44. So if you haven't heard that one, you can check it out. But basically they do something really cool, which is one of a kind, late cut vinyl records.

And to be clear, we're not sponsored by at least of all, you know, not that episode. Not this when we're just a huge fans of what Aaron and his team are doing because it's really awesome, that's a great way to help boost the momentum of that moment. If somebody really connect with your new single, let them by a one of a kind copy of stripped down version I think that's awesome. These things together all are creating a moment for your fan like that. Enter Shakeri album did for me.

You have some thoughts. I think about specific ways or specific goals that artists should have when they are creating this moment. Can you go a little more into depth there? Of course. Yeah, So traditionally, one of the main ways that a single was used was for promotion of a E P release, an LP release for, you know, an album, any type of release. It was always about pointing to something bigger. The end goal was the album, and the single was something that was just gonna make your ears tickle just enough to make you fall in love.

This was not Onley brilliant because they took one song that a panel of people would listen to and say, This is awesome. And then they would release that, and then they release another one, and then you'd only hear those two songs and the album would come out and then you have to go spend 12 to $15 to buy this album to get those two songs. Well, then iTunes came along and changed that. And then Spotify came along and changed that. And so the traditional use is still used, but it looks a little differently now.

If you're releasing a single and it is the first single that you've released for an album cycle, then this first single should coincide with announcement of something greater that's coming. Now, if that's gonna be we're releasing, you know, we're writing six songs and we're going to release them two at a time over the next six months or whatever. However you want to structure it because you could do that. Now you know, some people like full albums. Ah, lot of bands recently have just been releasing single after single, because what the industry has started to realize is that this is going to sound a little archaic.

But you can kind of squeeze ah lot mawr out of a single song than we thought originally. And how do you do this? Will you do it by making your single bigger than it iss like you were saying, James, you make a music video, you know, when you use a music video to promote your song. This is just one way that a you could monetize on it more because now you have the same song. One your streaming on Spotify, the other you're watching on YouTube. So now you have two different places that you're bringing streaming revenue in on one single place.

Ah, lot of larger artists are actually using different strategies where they release a lyric video for the song first, and then they release a music video afterwards. So that way, people already know the lyrics to the songs when the music video comes out. I've also seen a lot of major artists. Justin Bieber is one of them who releases lyric videos before his tours. This is one of the smartest tactics I've ever seen because those videos not only do they all squeeze like an extra few million plays out of each individual song, but also then everybody knows the lyrics.

Everybody loves to sing the words to the songs when they go to the concerts, and so he literally is prime ing his audience for the songs that he is going to sing. He's giving them all the lyrics, and on top of that, it's a really easy way for him to figure out which song his next single will be because when he goes there and everybody in the crowd is singing every word, well, then he knows. You know what? This video that has 1. 5 million place we could make that to 10.

5 million. So there's this awesome symbiosis that you can achieve with a single. But it's all about making the single bigger than it. ISS. 20 years ago, you never would have had three different videos for one song. Now you dio I've seen bands that have released a music video, and then a fan made a video for it, and the band released the fan made video. That's one of the coolest things ever, because that's I mean, you're literally talking about networking in between artistic fields, and that's another just you're creating true fans.

You're making this person's, you know world by taking their art and putting your name on it, just like you feel like. Oh, man, if a record label would come and say that I'm good enough, let me sign me. I'm gonna feel so happy. Well, that's how these artists feel to like. I've seen lots of awesome, awesome people do lots of awesome, awesome things in the name of promotion and all with something as simple as a single little Dickie. He did not have enough material to tour, but then he wrote his one song off of Somebody else's beat, a royalty free beat, and his song went viral.

He walked around to people's houses, asked him if he could film a music video in their house, and he did, and he went viral and he didn't have enough content. He was getting contacted by every venue across the country, saying, We want you to come and play. We want you to come and play. And so what did he have to dio? He turned his life set into a game show. He brought people up on stage. He made girls draw pictures of him with crayon, and the winner would get the chance to go on a date with him.

He did so many ridiculous marketing things that 50% of his hour long set was not music at all. But he had an incredibly devoted fan base. He had the best promotion possible, and he did it all with one song and one music video. So it's all about what you're gonna point thio Little dinky little You know, he used humor in that particular video which sent him viral. Lots of other artists who do very you know, a lot of similar things, but people talk about funny things. People talk about scary things.

I mean, these air activating emotions. And so when you're promoting, if you're taking your traditional single and instead of saying, Well, I'm not releasing an album, so it's not gonna point to that. You say, You know what? It's gonna point you this video because your album is no longer the only way you make money so it can point to anything that makes your money. If you're single, is gonna point to a YouTube release. Awesome. Here's an idea. Don't release your single on a traditional platform. Release it through an email blast.

Say the only way to get this song is by email, and you have to give us your email address. Now you're collecting email addresses for when you start to do email promotion. Blast for new merchandise, email promotions for new tours. You could basically just choose to look at it's like am I gonna make a dollar per song for download or am I going Thio? Use this as a marketing tool, in which case you're just investing the money that you would have made into your marketing budget. It's all going to depend on you, your business and how you are set up to do things.

But if you know where you are trying to monetize from, then you know where you are trying to direct people to. There's something called a sales funnel in the business world, where setting up a good business, the idea is all of your hubs, all of your social media's, all of your posts, all of your merch. Everything that you do needs to be funneling in tow, one place, and that one place is where you make your money. And the idea is that you want to keep them there as long as possible because the more time they spend their their more opportunity, you have it making money.

And so however you set up your sales funnel, however you direct, you know, whatever you're directing people to whether it be a website, whether it's you know, your soundcloud, whether it's your YouTube channel, if that's how you're trying to monetize. Or if that's what you're pushing, then you need to make sure that you're set up in a way that all roads point to that. If all roads point to that, then that is a repeatable formula. Then you can start to see you. Hey, this one single. You know, I put 50 bucks into Facebook ad marketing and the streams after one month brought me in $75.

Okay, so I made $25. You just discovered this formula that started the work. Now you can repeat it over and over again. Continue to test it, continue to hone it, figure out areas you can cut out. You know, maybe you say, Hey, I launched this song with $50 in Facebook marketing. I got 1000 views. The next time I did it, I launched it with $50. But I didn't do it until a week later, and it got 5000 views. So then you can really start to test your strategies, figure out how you're gonna approach things and learning that approach is really going to help you learn how to promote.

Yeah, I agree. And I think one thing that's really important to is if an artist is using the single as a promotional tool for a full length or an E p or something like that. The first single should also coincide with the announcement of pre orders for that album with merch packages and all kinds of other stuff, too. Because that way, when you release that first single people are gonna think, Oh, okay, cool. You just announce an album, too. Now I can go get the pre order and then when you released a second single, If you do a second single, that's another reminder.

And then when you finally released the album, you have that and obviously the whole time you're promoting the album making posts daily. But you also have your content, your singles to push with all the other stuff that you've been talking about. Matt, you know, the Facebook ads, the having three different videos for each song, all that kind of stuff. It all ties together. And I think going on to the question that First Frontier was asking they were looking for what kind of sub goals or quick bang for your buck.

Things can you do when you're releasing a single is part of a bigger plan, but you want a quick return on your investment. Essentially, what are some of the things there that artists can do to really get the best bang for their buck? So this is going to tie directly back in with the attention marketing. Um, if you want your single to go as far as possible, then when you're telling people about it, you have to make sure that they keep hearing about it. I love countdowns, I think countdowns air.

Great, simple thing that you can embed into your site, where the people who are actively go into your website. They could go and see how many days until the single releases teaser videos, teaser videos, air. Also wonderful. If you put up a 15 2nd video that has a date and a 15 2nd clip of your audio in the back, it builds excitement, builds anticipation, and people really they understand what it is, they say. Oh, this is a song, and it's coming out on that date. You can then compartmentalize these even further, and you can do it however you want.

Let's say you wanna release a single well, you do a teaser one week before that with a date on on your website. You have a counter every single day. Well, you released the song and then a couple days later, you wanna point back to the single issue like, Hey, it's been a couple days since we've released our single Who's still playing it? You're interacting, You're engaging your audience, you're asking open ended questions and you're really trying to create a bond. If you are releasing an emotional song, highly recommend reaching out and appealing to people on an emotional level about that song.

I know a lot of people write songs that are incredibly personal, so then continue to be vulnerable. You put that vulnerability into a song. Now you need to put it into a forum. Close the gap. Thes people are going to create presuppositions when they hear your song, and they're finding the personal application to their life. Start a dialogue about that. Turn these people into true fans. Thes people feel like they have a home in you, so give them that home. Then, once you you know, you're a couple days after you've been interacting with them.

Then once you get to the end of the week. This is when I would do something like a least of all session after you have already reached out and developed a soulful connection with your active listening audience, and in your early stages it might be one or two people. But that doesn't matter if those one or two people want to pay, you know, $25 to get a single cup of a song. That meant something special to them. Like I couldn't tell you, going back and listening to some of my favorite songs ever.

I absolutely would have single cuts of certain songs because they mean so much to me. I would have red hot chili peppers live at Slane Castle. Don't forget me. I would absolutely have that song. That song has made me cry before, and I've never had the opportunity to talk with any one of the members in the band. It doesn't matter because it's something special to me. So then, and I can't remember what their price point was. But you mean as an artist, you make you take preorders and then you make 10 to $15 per single order and then you make a unique experience which ties right back into creating a moment for your audience and that right there is really what solidifies them.

Come into your concerts when you're in town like them, paying 50 bucks for your meat and greets you know them paying 100 bucks when you're super huge for an opportunity to have dinner with the band. This is setting the groundwork for later. Everything that you do now is pointing to what you're going to do in the end, when you're constantly trying to bring attention to things when you're constantly trying to stay relevant, you're not trying to be spammy. It's hard, it's a lot of balance, and it's give and take, and it's figuring out when and where things need to be.

And when it comes to actively engaging with your audience, all you have to dio is be open, vulnerable, create the forum for them to be a part of, and then stay consistent with it. If you continue to do this, I mean it's like friendships. When you go and hang out with your friends, they still like you, right? Why? Because you continue to invest in their life. You do this over and over. This is repeatable formula. Friendships are a renewable resource. If you have that one friend that you constantly do stuff for all the time and they never do anything for you.

That relationship starts to deteriorate if your fans just come to see you and just buy stuff from you and you are just an outlet store, a retailer that's gonna diminish that relationship. But if you're creating a forum, ah, haven a place for where they feel like they could be themselves. Ah, place where they can talk about the things that they relate. Thio. That's worth all the money in the world to them when senses fail, comes out and does their 10 year tours for some of their albums like I Will Go to them because of what those albums meant to me.

That's what people want in their life. They want those moments. They you know, nostalgia is one of the most powerful things on the planet, and so if you can find a way to create a non opportunity to create nostalgia, this is what Disney does. That's what they're in. The industry of Disney is in the industry of nostalgia. That's why remakes or everything right now people who make TV shows and movies, they've successfully figured out a way. Cobra Kai News New show on Netflix. They have figured out a way to take something that is 25 30 years old, that we all watched his kids and fell in love with.

And now there's a regular syriza about it, and it's one of the biggest ones on Netflix, or whatever. Their packaging, nostalgia, their packaging, a moment, their packaging, that feeling you had when you were a kid. So remember that. Remember those songs that made you emotional? Remember those songs that made you want to become a musician? Create that for somebody else, and now it's taking it to the next level. It's not just the music. When we were kids, the music did it for us. Now it's the music, and it's who you are.

Now these kids can talk to you, you know, social media exists. When I was a kid, I couldn't just email my favorite band. Now I can. It's very easy, and a lot of the time they'll respond and so create that place. Find the person in your band who's really good at talking to people who is really good at reaching out to people and put them in charge of it. Chances are, if they're good at it, they probably like it a little bit. And on top of that, every artist I've ever met myself included, will sit there and say When people tell me that my music saved their life or when you know when they tell me how much my music means to them, that means the world that's the like, Oh, I have the strength to carry on.

And so that's what I would recommend us faras, how to really capitalize on a single by investing mawr into your audience. And at that early age, you really have a good chance to heavily invest in them because there's only like 10 or 15 people to talk. Thio. It's really easy toe. Send 10 or 15 messages. It gets harder once you start getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and that's when you have to adapt and figure out new ways like meet and greets like this is why those things exist. When we were younger, a lot of people thought how meet and greets This is terrible.

I'm never going to charge somebody 20 bucks to meet me. So no, you have to realize is there's too many people that want to meet you. I remember getting kicked out of, Ah, almost show. I wanted to meet Aaron Gillespie. I was like, 16 years old and I wanted to meet Aaron Gillespie. But the venue is closing and too many people wanted to meet him. And so literally there was like three people that got to meet him, and he was a wonderful person who wanted to have full conversations with everybody.

He cared about his fans and the venue kicked him out. How would Aaron have benefited? He would have benefited by having a forum where he could have those conversations with people. And he's an incredibly successful musician. So it's all about figuring out the place that you're going to implement. You know, whatever you're promoting, whatever your focus is, it all starts with your fans and it all ends with your fans, so capitalize on it by being a good person and loving the people who love you. One thing you said a few minutes ago really struck me about being open and vulnerable with your fans having that personal connection.

And that reminded me of a band called Nurture Nurture that I've been following on Instagram for a couple months now. And I just pulled up their profile to double check. Their bio is mental health activist math rockers, and so much of the content they put out is about mental health. The singer of the band got vulnerable and was talking about you know how the next single that they are releasing is about the first panic attack he ever had, and part of that is he's having other people.

Mental health experts do videos about how to cope with panic attacks, and I think it's really cool. The other thing is he has a discord for his band that is all about helping people cope with panic attacks. So he is providing that community and his music is there. But it's also for his fans to talk about mental health, and I just saw Now he's got a post about an upcoming Discord server tour in different discord servers. He's doing a live show throughout the next Let's see the 16th 19th 21st, the 23rd in the 26.

So today is the 21st, and this episode won't come out for, like, three or four weeks. So, unfortunately, the tour is gonna be over by the time this episode airs. But if anyone is interested in seeing a really good execution of this, it's at nurture. Nurture Band on Instagram and for First Frontier, who we shouted out for asking the question. I forgot to the drop their instagram link, its first frontier music, but not also. I think one of the things that you were talking about here is all the different sub goals you can have all come down to relationships.

You know you can gain followers or boost your stats. That's all relationships having those relationships in place will grow that the one thing that I would say maybe isn't is when you're looking for a press coverage or playlist ads. But if you can grow a relationship with the person who runs that blogged or that YouTube channel or that Spotify playlist, then they will be much more likely to in the future. Talk about your next song or playlist, your next song or whatever it is because they have a personal connection to you.

It's the same thing for Bandhive bands who follow us. We have a playlist, which you can check it out if you want. It's better dot band slash playlist. Just put that you are Ellen, and it will take you directly to our Spotify playlist. And that playlist is on Lee for Bandhive listeners and followers. And we did that because we want to showcase some of the amazing artists who are fans of our podcast, but also because those are the artists that I have a connection to right now is the people who interact with us and ask questions and share their music in our group, which you can find a better dot band slash group.

It's a Facebook group, and it's so cool toe. Have a list of all these artists toe. Listen to me like these are the people who are listening to what we have to say and whether they implemented or not. It's awesome to know that, like, hey, these people appreciate the content we're putting out. So if you are listening to this and you're not on that playlist, sure that's a message on Instagram or in the band I've group and we can get you added to the list. All we need to know is which song you wanna push and we'll put you on there.

One small thing I did wanna kind of touch on is there's a different jumping off point for different bands because you're, you know, we're all in different places. So if you have never released a single for ever, you have zero fans on Facebook. You have just created your social media pages and you are trying to build an initial fan base Facebook ads. Okay, this is the business world. You have to pay money to make money. If you want people to see your product, you need to invest money in marketing.

I think a good rule of thumb is if you paid $500 on your song, then you should also have $500 in marketing for that song. Okay, However much money you spend on your song, you're gonna spend the same amount of money on marketing. So don't think that you are anywhere close to being done with the monetary investment. When you leave that producer studio when you print your CDs like no That's the half of it. Your CDs, your merchant, all that stuff, those air. You're touring assets now for Facebook ads.

If you have no fans, put 50 bucks in every time you make a post. Put a couple bucks in. Do yourself a favor. Just stimulate your numbers right out of the gate. You'll thank yourself for it later. You know when you're making a snowman, you can start with a little tiny snowball. Or you can put a whole bunch of snow together and start with a big snowball. So it's just you're gonna accumulate faster. Then if you do have a fan base already, you know, say so. You do that for a couple weeks and you build 1000.

Facebook likes. Once you have a small amount of people that are engaged on your site, you want to release stuff, and then you wanna put your advertisement money about a week to two weeks afterwards, because what's gonna happen is if you put Facebook ad money. The first people that are going to see it are already the people that are liked or subscribe to your page or they're following you. That's the first place the money goes. And so what you want to do is you want to release it so all those people see it first and then, ah, couple weeks later, then you put your facebook money on it.

So then it goes even further. This is going to stimulate the algorithm because shares will end up going to, you know, shares go to further people. Shares of shares go incredibly far. Basically, it's all about the timing of when you put your money in. It's not about whether or not you put money in. You must put money into your Facebook ads or, if you're a little bit larger, your YouTube ads, your Spotify ads, etcetera. It doesn't matter when you start putting money into these and people start seeing that you are investing in your business and investing in your marketing.

This is when other businesses who invest in those same types of things are going to notice you. This is when PR companies you're gonna say, Hey, these guys are doing what they're supposed to. This is when sponsors are gonna come in and start saying, Hey, we're going to sponsor a tour for you when you start getting likes um, sponsored tours. You do a couple of those. That's when record labels start going. Hey, OK, these guys are doing sponsored tours. So it's this cascading thing of paying money to make money.

One of our early episodes is about documenting and about recording everything in a good way to chart all of your numbers. This is really, really important now as it is, then record your numbers. Find the formulas. If you're putting $500 a month into Facebook ads and you're not making any money back from it, you probably want to change your formula. If you could look at Spotify and say, Oh, I have a Spotify song and I'm gonna go ahead and reach out to 15 playlist curator and I'm gonna pay them each.

Ah, 100 bucks. You know, you pay $10,000 to get your money on all these Spotify playlists, and that brings you in 500 bucks. That's a poor investment. But if you spend $250 on some Spotify marketing and that brings you in $300 that's sustainable. That's repeatable. And then you start doing that. You do that for your B sides you do that for your songs that don't have music videos? And then once you start to see that, you say, Hey, this song has 10,000 listens where all the rest of them only have 3000. And this song is not a single cool.

Let's make a music video for it. So then it helps solidify your entire network. It builds you quality analytics, these air the tools that you actually learn the business from. The rest of it is the product side. This is the business side. So you put money in to get money back out. This is how you're gonna gain followers. This is how you're gonna boost your stats on Spotify your YouTube numbers. This is how you get PR companies and these are all the short term strategies that you can really compartmentalize and that, you know, you don't have to think 10 years down the road in order for you to know that I want to reach out to three Spotify playlist curator thes air weekly tasks that you consent for yourself when you say, Hey, I'm gonna try to get this new song on four different Spotify playlists.

You reach out to these people. And that's when that small snowball starts to get bigger and bigger and bigger, and from each one of those areas that you're reaching out. Thio. You're not gonna make a million dollars from iTunes anymore, But you might be able to make 10,000 from there and then 10,000 from Spotify and 10,000 from YouTube and 10, you know, and and so on and so forth and 50,000 from touring. It looks different now. You're no longer looking at those $1 million signing bonuses unless it's a merchandizing deal, which stay away.

What you're doing now is compartmentalizing and turning everything into a slow revenue stream, which is good because it's more sustainable. People think that it's bad because, oh, I only get paid fractions of a penny for a stream like, yes, you're right. But if you could turn each one of your songs into an asset that makes you money for the rest of your life, and every single song that you ever put out will continuously contribute into your retirement. This is why subscription based services of the biggest service on the planet.

This is why every major business switches to subscriptions because they will make more money. It's more convenient for the listeners. It's more convenient for the business. So if you can set up your systems to our each and every one of these revenue streams, you know your song royalties from the radio coming in here, your Spotify from here, YouTube from here and then you're able to It's like, Hey, I'm consistently able to make money Then those are business formulas that you can turn and go to other businesses with and say, Hey, look thes air, my repeatable formulas.

Things is how I'm successful and that's when labels are gonna go. OK, I'll put my name on it. That does it for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. Thank you to First Frontier for requesting this topic. We always appreciate listener requests for topics, So if you have a topic that you would like to hear, go ahead and shoot an email over to support at Bandhive dot Rocks or just find us on instagram Facebook wherever and shoot us a message and say, Hey, you know, can you talk about this and we will add it to our list of requests In the meantime, I mentioned in the episode that we have a Facebook group, which you can find at better dot band slash group or searching for us on Facebook.

We'd love to have you join our community of almost 400 musicians and other D. I Y creatives who are working together to learn more about running a successful business. We'll be back with another episode next Tuesday at 6 a.m. Eastern time. Thanks for listening. We hope you have a Knauss, um, week Stay healthy and, of course, as always, keep rocking.