Welcome to Episode 44 of the Bandhive Podcast.

It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross, and I'm here with Matt Hoos of Alive in Barcelona. How are you doing today, Matt James?

I'm doing pretty wonderful. How are you doing over there on the East Side? That's great to hear, and things were good here. It's finally getting to be more like fall, even though it's only September 1st. It feels wonderful out here, and I'm also super stoked because we have a very special guest today. Aaron Zimmer of Leesta Vall Sound Recordings. How are you today, Erin? I'm well, thank you. How are you guys? Nothing to complain about here. It's like I said. It's great over here, and it's a real pleasure to have you here because I think what you are doing with Leesta Vall is really unique, and it's something that is giving a little power to artists to do unique one of a kind recordings, and so we're going to dive deep into that.

But first of all, let me just explain to the listeners what first piqued my interest about Leesta Vall. And it's this thing that you have called shut in sessions, which, basically, for those of you who haven't heard of it, is you send in files to Aaron that are one of a kind, and each one of those files is pressed to a record or Leith cut to a record for a specific person. So this is all done on a pre order basis. It's limited, run unique to every single order.

And I think that's so cool because especially now with Spotify and streaming in general, it's kind of made music a commodity and you're going back and saying No, it's not a commodity. Music is unique and we're going to change that. Aaron just jumping right in. Can you tell us a little bit? About how Leesta Vall started? And what your inspiration there, Waas. I'd love Thio. The label was was actually founded as a booking agency. In my younger years, I was a touring musician and as my time is as a touring musician was coming to a close.

I was trying toe think of something to do some way I was gonna pay the rent. You know, I'd spent 10 or 15 years on the road playing shows and building relationships with talent buyers and bookers and festival buyers and all sorts of all sorts of touring folks. And I thought, Well, if I could do it for myself, I could do it for some other people, too. So I just started doing that, um, and built up a pretty good roster. It was just me and a dingy, tiny office in Bushwick, Brooklyn.

Um, I think it I think we had around 25 artists. They were doing 1500 shows or so a year, and it was I mean, it was truly just days full of, um, spreadsheets and calendars and contract negotiation. And it was, you know, as much as I love music and as much as I loved touring, it was just a dismal existence. I hated every piece of it. I really just did And around that time I was discovering that these old record lathes were out there and was really interested in that interested in learning sort of the history and where they came from and who was using them when they were when they were made, what were they were there uses?

What were they their intent? So I found one on eBay, of course, and just went toe work, trying to figure out how to make it cut a record. I always tell people I better cut 5000 records, bad records before I got one good one. The arc on it is just brutal, and it took me years just banging my head against this. Lay them like, you know, kitchen table. And so I've sort of figured it out. And I was trying to think of ways that I could use this skill that I had, and I knew I didn't want to go in tow.

You know, short run, lay the cut production work. There's plenty of folks out there that are doing brilliant work with that. I just didn't want to go into competition with that. Short of the voice o graph booth at third man records in Nashville. In Detroit, I couldn't find anywhere in the world where you could walk into a place and perform and leave with a record. I I thought that was amazing and brilliant on its own. And so I thought, Well, let me just try that. Let me see.

And so I put together the pieces to the puzzle, you know, designed to center label and all the stuff and the initial label project was we called it office sessions. It was literally one ribbon microphone and the cutter in my dumpy office in Bushwick. The first office sessions with one of my good buddies. And so we did it. It was cool. We did a few Maurin, a few Maura Fume. Or eventually we put a submission page on the booking agencies website and started taking in submissions. And as I got busier with that, it was simultaneously shrinking the roster, so I didn't have to work so much in booking and growing the amount equipment in space that I had.

The studio is sort of hopscotched through Bushwick, growing into bigger and bigger spaces with more equipment people, and so I guess it was maybe a couple of years ago, maybe just a year and a half ago that we were able to get into the studio that we're at now. And I could build a staff around the project and just and really go for it on. So we did that converted the name toe directive. I know live sessions and we set out to put together these preorder pages.

The Zapruder campaigns with the artists that they have all the tools and assets they need toe properly promote this recording session where they're going to come to my studio. We're gonna mike them up. We're gonna get levels. By the time the band shows up, we'll have all their orders in. So we know every record we need to cut and who it's for. We get good sounds. We dropped the needle, toss up the failures and the band says, Hey, Matt, thanks for your support. Hears this song. You ordered its take Number four.

Hope you love it. And then they play it while they're playing it. We cut the record, put a label on it, ship it. That's it. Before the pandemic started, we were Gosh, I mean, we were doing three sessions a day every day. Just busy, busy, busy, busy. I guess that's maybe the long version of the condensed one. But that's that's the history of how it started. That's really cool. And I think it's also it shows the entrepreneurial mindset that you have because not only did you learn a new skill and then say How can I make money from this?

And while you're also adding value to the artists because they have something unique. But then when Cove it came about you again pivoted and turn that from something that you can't do during a pandemic to something that you can do during a pandemic. Yeah, it was really scary time mean for my company, just like it was for, you know, millions and millions of others. I mean, I was I was really terrified. We were hearing about, you know, of course, the studios in New York City. So it was even worse there right away, and we were just hearing, and every day it got a little bit worse.

There was a day and then two days and then three days where there were absolutely zero sales that day, and I was sitting at my desk and trying to remember if I if that had ever happened before and I just knew that it hadn't. I knew something was up because these artists they were had these sessions and all of a sudden there tours were canceled. They were headed home. They're not promoting. They're trying to figure out how Thio eat, right? I got it. I totally understood. You know, I have staff.

There's people that I care about, that I adore the work they do. And so I had no idea what to dio. I really didn't. And then I was laying in bed in the middle of the night. I just had this idea about what would become shut in sessions. And I struggled with it because the whole idea what makes the records so wonderful is that they're cut live in real time. We're actually carving the grooves in while the band is in the live room playing. I really, really love that, but that was gonna be impossible.

So what do we dio? So what if we have the same exact model, but we allow the artist to record in the safety of their home while they're shut in who cares what the recording sounds like? Who cares if they don't have a pro set up? Who cares if it's an iPhone video or iPhone voice memo? The idea is just to capture a moment in this wildly strange time in the universe and cut it to a one of a kind thing just for the one person and so started there.

It was probably midnight, and by 2 a.m. I had worked through in my mind all the pieces to the puzzle, and I just got up and got to work on it. And it's six AM I sent over our director of operations, Emily. I just sent over this packet like, Here's this. What do you think? And we batted around a couple of names for the program and made a couple adjustments and then got ready just to announce it, just to roll it out to the artist database. The mailing list that we have of the of artists.

There's thousands of artists in there, so we just sent that out. We put it up on our socials and just crossed our fingers. I think we set up 50 sessions that very first day or Maybe it was the first two days, so that was great. It was a sigh of relief, not only for us, but these bands that were trying to figure out how they were going to get their rent paid. Everybody had an opportunity to, regardless of where they were in the world, since they had nothing else to do other than stay home and stay safe.

Everybody had an opportunity to make a little bit of money when they desperately needed it. And so we did it. And as the pandemic continued, we just continued on. Here we are. I mean, it's been such a rewarding program that we're just gonna keep it open indefinitely. I don't have any plans to close it up. My thought was it would just be live while the pandemic is crushing everybody. But we may keep it around. I really love it, and I love it because of the recordings that we've heard come in.

Like I was saying earlier. I mean, we've had people go to their studio and record, make their recordings to tape. We've had lots of iPhone voice memos. I heard a sessions with the recordings that were just done outside, in a field of heard countless recordings that you hear birds chirping and cars driving by. It's just so magical to hear people making music in that way, and then on a format that's so novel and strange. You would never hear a record like that unless you were Alan Lomax traveling the world and capturing music genres that that had previously been unheard.

Alan Lomax is another rabbit hole, but I just really love the magic that that that created on. But it's been really rewarding for us, and I hope for the artist to Yeah, I know an artist. Troy Mallette, who did a shut in session back in I want to say, was April or so Oh, cool. He spoke so highly of the process. And that's why I decided to reach out to you to do the interview. Oh, good. I'm so glad that makes my day when the artists have a positive.

I mean, we work really hard to make sure that is. And, uh, that is the case for everybody and the system. The protocol is super duper buttoned up, so we make it really easy for them to have what they need preorder closes, they go do their thing. And when they're ready to give the audio, they send the audio in through an easy set up, and then we pay them right away. We just get it checks out right away. So I'm really, really happy to hear that. That's great that you have such a fine tune system.

And while you're talking about that, can you give a quick rundown off? You know, start to finish what a session for an artist would look like if somebody listening wants to go and sign up for a shot in session. What's the process from A to Z? They would go to our website and they'll navigate to a page called Shut in Set Up or whatever it's called, where they can learn about how it works, learn about how much how they're going to be paid and what they need to dio.

And then they just send in an easy list of assets. And those include artist name. We need a photo, the list of songs they'd like to make available on their pre order, all the simple stuff that gets sent to us. Um, we do, ah, a little bit of vetting with this emissions that come in just we let a lot of folks in most everybody if an artist is a real person that could respond to an email and clearly is a is a musician out there trying to work well, let him in every time.

So we get the stuff. We build a pre order page on our website and send all the info on assets to the artist with Cem promotional tips that air tried and true. And they go to work for a couple weeks, just promoting his fast and furious as they can. When the priority closes, they'll get a final list of their orders, the person where they're from the song they ordered. And then they go. They go to work making the recordings. When they're done, they come back to us.

They upload, threw us a portal on our website and that gets put into the queue for our producers to cut. And then we cut them a check right away, then the records. We have all the files. We have, everything we need. We can cut each record and we ship them from the studio, and that's it. Simple is that. That's a really beautifully simple system, because that just makes it. You know, Thea artists basically has two jobs promote and record, and that's it. That is it. And purposefully.

So we wanted to make the protocol, Justus bulletproof as we could. You know, we knew we were gonna do some volume. And so we just because of the scale we couldn't mess with like, Okay, well, this person just send us a Dropbox link, and this person has a We transfer Lincoln, this person email the files and this and that, like it's all very funneled and good and organized. Yeah, that sounds like it would be an absolute mess if somebody would be sending those. We actually didn't episode just a couple weeks ago about using one system for file transfer and all that kind of stuff.

Eso if anyone's listening and you want to check that episode out if you go to band, I've got rocks slash 40 for that episode will be linked there. I can't remember off the top of my head. Which one? That is. But before we go further into depth about shutting sessions and Leesta Vall, just a few quick FAA cues that we think artists will be curious about. Matt, do you want to go through these real quick? Yeah, sure. You know, and some of them you've already answered in your absolutely wonderful description of what you dio.

Um, First off, I just want to say I love your model. Thank you. I'm a firm believer that memorabilia is something that left the music industry quite a while ago. Agreed. And I think you're creating more than an experience and you're creating memorabilia. And as somebody who's worked as a merch person for a long time, I know that that is so much more of an intimate is way better than a T shirt. It's way better than a CD. Yeah, it's an intimate one of a kind thing, and I think that's awesome.

So I wanted to say that before I jumped in. Thank you very much. I love it, too, but so you've already answered. You know, the first question is, how many songs can you put on one record, which I think you already mentioned and that it's a single track per record cut? That's correct. Yeah, we get that question a lot, and there's sort of a long winded explanation for that. But the shortened version is it's a record that's got one song on it. Yeah, we could put two on it, but that doubles the amount of work for the artist and for my team.

And to do that means we have to charge MAWR. We put a lot of time and thought into finding the correct price point for what they get. And so my argument to that is one song that was recorded and made specifically for you and cut to a record that Onley you and the world have is worth every penny. We don't have to bake in more value. Perfect. I completely agree. As far as pre sales go, you know, you mentioned that you are pre sale model. So your artists are, you know, gonna be promoting this.

Um, do you have ah, threshold for the minimum number of pre sales that you need to do for a printing session or a lazing session or whatever the correct term for that is? No, that's kind of the beauty was shut in. No, there's there is no minimum. We've had artists that sold one will cut it who cares? There's been a few artists that have sold more than I even want to admit. We had one artist. I think I think the top sellers sold almost 300 of them, you know, taking months to make all the recordings.

But no, there's no minimum. Not at all. Okay, excellent. So that's and that's really cool, too, because, you know, for our listeners out there, this is a really easy ground level entry point for you to start developing true relationships, the true quality relationships with your fans on. That's something that James and I have talked about a lot over the course of the podcast. So I really, really like that. If, like you said, somebody sells, one will make it. And so that's awesome. Yeah, that's such a huge value.

Add into people's lives. The reason that's possible is because it's such a simple process in relationship to how records are typically made. Typically you have to cut an acetate, and then you make the Stamper, and then you do this and you do that and you can't order less than 100 because it's not worth their time to do all those steps where is this? The step is the same for every record. So it doesn't matter if we make one five minute song or 105 minute songs. It'll take us these exact amount of time.

That's a recipe for success. So I love that as far as your work. We know that you work with artists inside the U. S. Do you work with artists around the world as well? Yeah. I couldn't tell you the percentage of international artists that have gone through the shut in program. It's not nothing. There have been a lot from Canada and some European artists as well. We pay their royalty a little bit differently because, you know, different. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, anybody is welcome. And for the live sessions at the studio.

Yeah, we've had lots and lots of international artists come through it all. It all is based upon their touring. I would say, Gosh, 60% of those sessions are touring artists that were already in New York anyway. And that could be anybody in the world. Excellent. Yep. Side No. That's just, you know, for all of our listeners, that is the perfect way. When you're touring is to be setting up things like that during the daytime, you know? Yeah, these air perfect ways for promotion. So, you know, for anybody listening, take that.

No. In store for any day, because when you're on the road, you should absolutely be using your like. There's no such thing as downtime. Downtime is a is a fake term. When you own a business, that's right. You can either be working for your business and doing nothing or working on your business and becoming better. So it sounds like you've been, you know, you've been doing this for a while. You've been fairly successful. You've been able to adapt in an ever changing market about how maney shutting sessions.

Would you say that you've done so far? Rough guesstimate. Yeah, approaching 600 somewhere. Last time I looked, it was 5 50 that was that was a week or two ago. So approaching 600 Wow, that's of all different numbers of of printing. That's that's absolutely incredible. So sounds like you've been keeping pretty busy for these last while we're in the weeds, I'll admit that to you. We are Well, that's good. That's a good problem to have. All right. Well, Matt and Erin, thank you for the back and forth there on the FAA queues.

If anybody has a question that wasn't answered, you can head on over to at Leesta Vall dot com slash pages slash f a. Q. That's L E S t a v a l l dot com slash pages slash f a. Q. And you can find more answers there. And if you still don't find answers, there is a handy contact link right there as well. Yes, and one of the things I've been working on recently is sort of our customer service connective ity and just being really good at answering questions because we get a lot of inbound enquiries.

If you go to the website, you'll see there's a little chat bubble, and I'm telling you, that is me on the other end of that thing s oh, fire away with your questions. We have answers for you. All right, That's great. Live chats are the best. Yeah, unless I'm in my car, then I can't answer you. Yeah, yeah. Do you have, like, a little email collection of thing for when you're not online? So you get a email. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does all that stuff. Yeah, perfect. Perfect.

I can't tell you how many times if I've had to decide between two providers and one has a live chat. And the other one doesn't I go with one with the live chat, even if it costs more? I'm just like I can hit them up any time. Or at least you know, eight hours a day and be in touch with them right away. That's a rabbit hole for another day. But e, maybe I could be on that podcast. This stuff is interesting to me, too. Yeah, we might have to have a systems episode for artists, and I feel like you could systems knowledge from the business.

And your experience is an artist. I will love listening to that to that episode for sure. Awesome diving back into things. Um, it sounds like it's pretty basic what you look for when you're seeking out artists or when artists come to you to do a shot in sessions. But to maybe go more into depth with that, is there a common thread between the artists who have had the most successful sessions is there something you think that all the successful artists did the same way? Oh, good question.

Well, beyond the rial, obvious ones. I mean, an artist that has that. It clearly has their stuff put together. This isn't the first time they've promoted. They know the drill. They know exactly what to do. That, of course, helps. I sort of think this kind of product and any kind of merch and any kind of support for independent music has everything to do with the relationships that the artist is forged with their fans before they sign up. There's just too much music for the music to be the only piece to the puzzle that's important.

I really, really believe that. And I think to help further that point. There's just no way to tell on on a shut in session. You can't just size up an artist and know all this person is going to sell out. This person is going to sell none because you'll be surprised every time. So that tells me it's got nothing to do with the photo. It's probably got nothing to do with the music. It has nothing to do at all with how many Instagram followers you have has everything to do with how much effort you put into making a relationship that actually goes back.

Thio What you and I talked about two episodes ago on Number 42. Matt. It was how to you first of all, grow a massive instagram falling. But keeping your fans engaged because I would personally say, and I'm sure you'll agree with me unengaged following that small is way better than a large but un engaged following. There's no connection there. Absolutely, yeah, because the followers that are engaged might as well not be followers it all. They are worth nothing to an artist if the like or the follow has been paid for or gleaned in some way other than just, you know, a natural, true, authentic way.

Yeah, exactly for anyone listening. If you want to learn more about gaining authentic followers, you can head on over to Bandhive dot rocks slash 42. That's the numbers 42 and listen to that episode and then come back and re listen to this section of this episode. I think cause then there will be a better understanding of how you can jump into a shut in session and be prepared for it is what I would say. Is there something you see that really helps artists stand out in the way they prepare for the pretty sale for shutting sessions?

Yeah, there's a couple things first and most importantly, and maybe this is another rabbit hole for another podcast. But the artists that do best are the ones that have taken the time, first of all, to read the information we give them and to process it and understand what it is they're doing. If they don't have an understanding of the product they're trying to sell, there's no way they can sell it, especially when it's Aziz. Weird and unique is this one is. So read an email. There's been There's been a lot of these sessions where we get all the way rolled out, and the artist doesn't know what they're promoting.

And it's on Lee just because they haven't taking the time to read and to process information. So that's number one, and number two is jeez, the artists that do what they say they're going to do and are accountable and responsible and timely, just like any job that you expect to be good at, they do better. It's no different than being good at anything else in life just to really try. Yeah, so to boil it down. It sounds like the first one is just attention to detail. And then the second one is reliability and accountability, discipline, discipline.

That's another really good one, and I don't have the reference because I can't remember the name of the book. But I read a book about copyrighting because I was frustrated and this was his way back in my booking days, I was frustrated that people don't read emails. People don't read. Copy that you send them. So I was trying to learn the tricks to deliver words that take the least amount of effort to process. And to that end, the information that we send artists is just as fine tuned and dialed in.

You can get so I don't think on our side we could do any better, then a short, concise paragraph that explains and hope that the artist will read it and understand it before they get signed up. Yeah, that's definitely something. When people see a wall of text, their eyes just glaze over. It's unfortunate, but that's what it is going deeper into what you see for the future of Leesta Vall, obviously the shut in sessions Air going really well and I think it's a really cool idea.

But we've also seen how your relationship with artists has changed over the last few years from being, you know, a booking agency to doing in person sessions to now doing remote sessions over the next 5 to 10 years. How do you envision that? Things might change as far as your relationship with the artist, and obviously we don't know what the future holds. But I'm sure you have some thoughts about adding further value to these artists lives. The sessions that I cut, the relationships that I that I have the opportunity to forge with the artists that come through the studio by and large are always really, really good ones.

I love nothing more than to see artists come back and listen to how their careers have grown and what they've been up to. It's in the last year that they've been out doing their thing, so I mean, a personal goal would just be have more experiences like that. See, artists go from, you know, relative obscurity into doing really, really good things. It's really gratifying to know that I got to work with them before they were huge superstars. That's cool. I don't know if that's a good answer to the question, the best one I have on the fly.

I think that's definitely a good goal. And I think that is a good answer because it shows how really how artist focused you are and how artists focused. Leesta Vall is you have a human relation on. I think that's really important for me, like I'm very utilitarian. So I like things to be simple, easy laid out, formulaic. And, you know, it seems to me like you've you've worked on trying to, you know, taken intimate, unique experience and make it is easily accessible. You're creating a moment for them, and that's what I find is so special about this.

It's not even necessarily that, you know, like yes, you will develop this awesome relationship with an artist and probably better so with the ones whose music you like and who have, Ah, good work ethic. But really your business is creating something special for other people and that I think is so awesome and that that really, I mean, you are in the business of relationship building. Yeah, you know, you don't make money if artists aren't actively building quality relationships with their audience. And so, you know, I think that's absolutely incredible.

That's a really good observation and illustrated in a different way. We have a customer base. We sell records to customers every day, all day, every day. It's a great, great thing, but we sort of view our customer or the person with which we need to nurture relationships as the artists there are conduit to the end sale, and so those of the relationships to build maybe only once or twice have we ever sent an email blast to our entire customer base because it's not really about them. They're gonna buy the records from the artists they love.

So let's nurture the artists they love. The sales will come on the back end. That's a perfect model. I love it. Yeah, that's a really amazing way to look at it, kind of going into that angle of things. Each record is unique, and I'm guessing that some artists have figured out a way to go above and beyond in the recording that they're delivering. Do you have any stories of unique or creative experiences where the artists have gone the extra mile to really give something unique to their fans?

Aside from one song that's just for them, I'm sure there's been some creative stuff. Yeah, I mean, every record we ship borrowing few exceptions will always have some sort of message from the from the artist to the person who bought the record so that the listener knows right away that we made it just for them. Those kinds of introductions or messages. Boy, we've heard it all. We've heard all sorts of crazy stuff in some regards that's as important as the actual song. Is artist going above and beyond?

Well, with the shut ins with shut and stuff, making recordings at home can be sort of a challenging thing. Um, we try to encourage artists not to be too precious with it. If the dog barks cool, the listener will actually think that's cool. So I know that there is. There is some extra effort that goes into the artist when they're making their recordings to make sure they deliver something that the listener will really love. I kind of like what you said about just what you mentioned purely about, Like the dog barking.

There's so much behind. You know, there's so much music theory behind the imagery of music as well. Yeah, and so, like, even though you're not, you know it's not a video. What YouTube has started doing in the marketing world is really creating a television station. You know, it's a window into people's lives, and so, like you have the music aspect of it. But then there's also like the intimate things, you know, like for me. I always grew. I grew up on taking back Sunday, and so I always loved hearing the stories between them and brand new.

It was the extra, the realism that brought it to life. And I think those little things that you mentioned, like dogs barking. It's like you know kids are gonna put together in their mind. They're gonna go like, oh, like they have a dog. This singer has a dog. Those are things that you'll never get out of, something that's not this intimate, something that's not literally a. You know, it's kind of like a window into your home, and so I think that that's again just awesome. I think that's cool, too.

And in some ways it has to do with with the artist's understanding of what their brand is, the way people are going to perceive them. We had to shut in session with this brilliant, brilliant artist named Corey Kilgannon. Really, really easy going guy. He's been to the studio a handful of times, and a brilliant songwriter has a really, really great big fan base who loves him, and I happen to cut his session. I just loved his recordings because they were made in a way that's just exactly like his personality is.

He just sort of hit record and then dinked around and did whatever he was going to do. And then he played 11 of the recordings that we shipped. He hit the last chords on his piano and his fiancee walked in the front door, and he's like, Hey, baby, I just finished the last one. This is the last recording, and then the tape stops and of course I cut that. It's awesome. Yeah, that's incredible. That kind of stuff for for the artist to know who they are and toe commit that to the recording, all while not being overly precious or hard on themselves is a good skill for any artist to learn.

I really love that. Answer what you just described, whether it's the artist Cory who greeted his fiancee or the dog barking that humanizes the artist in the eyes or the ears of the listener. Yeah, so it shows them that the artist isn't this, you know, superhuman person on a pedestal. The artist is another human just like them. And I think that's really cool. Helps forge the relationship between the artist and the fan. Yeah, exactly. I know you had shouted out earlier the u R l for booking a shut in session.

So for anyone who wants to book a shut in session, you could go to Leesta Vall L e s t a v a l l dot com and click on the shut in Sessions button. But before we close this out, Aaron, do you have any final closing words, either from your experience running Leesta Vall or from your experience in your years on the road that you would want to share with listeners, I dio, particularly with shutting sessions, but also with all the touring artist that have come through with live sessions at the studio and then just my my time is a performing musician myself.

It's important for musicians to remember that this life that they have chosen for themselves is no picnic. It's not easy to do. It's so not easy to do that almost all of us fail at it. The artists that I've met that in my view are doing the best with the talents that they have. Don't make the words success have everything to do with money. Money doesn't make you happy. Guaranteed as the saying goes, the artists that do it for the love of doing it, that make the art because they love making the art will always be happier and by virtue of being happier, have more success in life.

We meet a lot of artists that arm or interested in, in my view anyway that are interested in gaining a huge following and not interested in getting really good at singing or not interested in writing really, really great music, and it always makes me sad to see that kind of stuff. Yeah, I think that's really important. And that's, you know, so many artists basically just have their priorities backwards. Because if you get really good at writing songs or saying and put that out there, that's how to grow your fan base more effectively.

Because otherwise it's just You're swimming upstream. Really? Right? I mean, I get it. Somebody wants to be Internet famous. Well, what's the vessel I can use with that? Well, I could be a singer. Let me try that. I don't know. Yeah, a podcast. I'm sure. I think we'll leave it at that and say one last shout out for the Leesta Vall L e s t a v a l l dot com You can sign up for a shut in session. Aaron, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you.

Thank you so much for taking the time. Thio, come on. The show so fun. You guys. Thank you for having me. This has been a lot of fun. That does it for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. Thanks so much to Aaron Zimmer, of Leesta Vall Sound Recordings. for coming on the show to talk about both the recording process and some mindset tips for artists so they can sell more records, which really would apply to Leesta Vall records or any record in general. We really hope you enjoyed this episode, and I got to say these interviews we've been doing have gone so well and we just love doing them.

So if there's someone you think we should interview on the podcast, please let us know. Just shoot an email over to James at Bandhive dot Rocks, and we can chat about who you think we should ask to join us. Thanks again for listening. We'll be back with another episode next Tuesday at 6 a.m. Eastern time. Until then, have an awesome week. Stay safe. And, of course, as always, keep rocking.