[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 175 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time from their episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the podcast, we have a very special return guest, Troy Millette of Troy Millette and The Fire Below. How are you doing today,

[00:00:17] Troy: I'm doing awesome, man. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast for the first time in 15 months. Apparently,

[00:00:23] James: Yeah, I got the math wrong. It was

[00:00:25] Troy: math is hard. That's why we're artists you're not helping people with budgeting.

[00:00:29] James: I like the math. That's what I do.

[00:00:31] Troy: Oh, whoops.

[00:00:32] James: tour manager.

[00:00:33] Troy: and just like that. We ruined the band. Hi. Podcast. Like 40 seconds in.

[00:00:39] James: I'm canceled now. Anyway, dude, thank you so much for coming back. Fantastic to hear that you're having a good day so far. We're about to ruin your

[00:00:47] Troy: This podcast normally does actually. It's like, anytime I think I'm getting something right, I put an episode of this on, I'm like, huh. I guess I could have been doing it like that for the last nine years.

[00:00:56] James: this would've been so much easier if I knew this

[00:00:59] James: a decade[00:01:00] [00:01:00] Troy: It's, part of the artistic struggle to get everything wrong go for broke on your first project.

[00:01:04] Troy: I think that's par for the course.

[00:01:06] James: Absolutely. Which I think is kind of unique because this is your first project, you are a Troy Millette and The Fire Below like you've been doing the same thing for what, 13 years

[00:01:15] James: now?

[00:01:15] Troy: Close to it. I've been trying not to be Troy Millette for about 27 years, but, geez. Yeah. I was 16 when I started taking solo gigs, and we started the band, as a four piece in 20 16, 20 17

[00:01:28] James: six or seven years is a band.

[00:01:30] Troy: yeah, which is crazy. And we've kicked all those the dead way out of the band.

[00:01:34] Troy: I'm totally kidding. But it's funny because it's one of those projects we mentioned last time, and I won't dwell on it, that was kind of started to just supplement the solo stuff. Like let's just expand. What you would see if it was me and a guitar and a microphone, and bring it to that next level sonically.

[00:01:48] Troy: the name of the game was just Hire Who's around. if there was a silver line of Covid for me as a performer, was finding a group of guys who wanted to be invested in this project and, you know, kind of buy in and co-write some of these songs and take on [00:02:00] some of the, schlepping of gear and the, designing of merch and just things like that.

[00:02:04] Troy: The, how are we gonna brand this thing? What are we gonna wear? And really kind of buy into that whole aspect of it. So, it was nice to have that little pause to make that happen, but I really love this group of guys who's, following me around these days. So That's great.

[00:02:16] James: Yeah, it's always good to know when a solo project isn't really a solo project, it's a collaborative band. Cause so many times you see like so-and-so and blah, blah blah, and it's like, well, I mean it's all so and so and hired guns like you were saying. But now it's really evolved into more of this is a actual band it sounds like.

[00:02:32] Troy: Yeah, Dan Rahi, our guitar player, and Derek Rice, who played keyboard and now plays bass with us. Those are kind of the guys that like, if they're not around, we're either strongly considering not taking the gig or, it's not a fire below show, let's market it as an offshoot of something.

[00:02:48] Troy: Let's give it a funny name and, featuring members of Troy and The Fire Below. We do

[00:02:52] Troy: a lot of that stuff just because I think people do expect a certain camaraderie and a certain and a certain sound when they see this band. Now, you know, [00:03:00] we've been, paling around for enough time now that I think that expectation is there and I think it's easier to sub-market, and kind of make it a gimmick than it is to not meet those expectations.

[00:03:10] James: Yeah, absolutely. Maybe you could go by Troy. Millette. Extinguished.

[00:03:13] Troy: Yeah. or the, uh, the water above or whatever,

[00:03:17] Troy: you know,

[00:03:17] James: I think that's just clouds, isn't

[00:03:19] James: it?

[00:03:19] Troy: Yeah. Troy Millette and the clouds, I don't know, it doesn't have the symbol ring to it, but

[00:03:23] Troy: I won't say the band is a perfect democracy. I love how Dave Girl talks about the Foo Fighters, and he's like, no, if I say we're doing it, like a good chance we're doing it.

[00:03:32] Troy: It's just a matter like, I care about your input on why you think we shouldn't, these guys have been great that I bring things to them that are probably not my best ideas on a weekly basis. And they're like, yeah, it's a cool thought. Maybe we work on, like flushing it out and they're really good at learning when they can just exhaust me with my own ambition and just like, keep looping me with the questions or they genuinely are like, no, let's flush out this idea so that what you're thinking translates. as a songwriter, that's been really interesting too. I find myself really close to the things I'm [00:04:00] writing just because I'm in it. So I know, what I'm trying to hit with it, but, I have a tendency to just like drop people in the middle of a story and Dan has been really great about like, Hey, how about we zoom out a little bit so people understand like why you're naked in the kitchen at 3:00 AM And it's not just like, oh, this guy doesn't own pants because he's a musician and can't afford them, or like, whatever the assumption might be.

[00:04:19] James: Yeah, absolutely. Like having that cohesive story is so important to hook attention. Cause if you don't, people are just confused and they think it's some weird al song or

[00:04:29] Troy: and it's also one of those things too is our show is unique in the sense that our personalities really shine through, which I think is why it now works at The Fire Below is a group of three guys with like very different but very strong personalities. And you know, the banter is, kind of built on our friendship on and off the stage.

[00:04:45] Troy: And I think that translates really well. I think. Kind of know when they're being put on. And if you're just hiring studio guy or a touring guy, I'm not saying it can't be a great show. You know, I've, I've met a ton of people who are studio or, pay to play kind of guys that shred.

[00:04:58] Troy: But you know, it translates to an [00:05:00] audience when you're trying to sell what we're putting out there that they met 25 minutes ago, and that guy's reading charts not a set list. there's a time and place for that too. You know, and we've definitely taken things and are very thankful for the people who, choose to help us out.

[00:05:12] Troy: Even though they, don't have the time necessarily to dedicate to it. But I, I think it is important to kind of put yourself in the songs with what we're doing. And, writing is so personal to me, and it's kind of was this weird concept and this weird line that I didn't want to cross of like, well, all the writing is about me, and I'm doing all this, and I'm designing all this and I'm doing all this.

[00:05:30] Troy: But then, You want to display it in a place that's very collaborative and involved. So kind of breaking down that barrier of like, I'm allowed to let other people into this space and it doesn't mean that what I was doing before wasn't important or wasn't hitting the mark. It just means that it's okay to not lock yourself in this metaphorical head space, you know?

[00:05:49] Troy: And it's been really cool to explore that with these guys and I hope they never hear how nicely I just spoke about them.

[00:05:54] James: I will make sure to cut that clip out and send it to them

[00:05:57] Troy: Perfect. Yeah. I could give you their email addresses or [00:06:00] whatever, their only fans and you can

[00:06:01] Troy: Dropbox it to them. Yeah.

[00:06:02] Troy: That's how they pay the rent. This band's not doing it.

[00:06:04] Troy: So

[00:06:07] James: three very different internet services all

[00:06:09] Troy: only fans is just email for millennials. Right.

[00:06:12] James: Yeah. Cause you have to pay for it.

[00:06:13] Troy: Well that's because it's elite, you know, I don't, I don't know what

[00:06:15] Troy: else anybody would use it for

[00:06:17] James: Yeah.

[00:06:17] James: Who knows?

[00:06:18] Troy: Only the fans. No.

[00:06:19] James:

[00:06:19] James: anyway, man, last time we talked was almost two years ago, and it was called episode 83, booking and playing 150 plus shows a year while working a day job. Troy Millette and The Fire Below.

[00:06:32] James: now during the pandemic, obviously that didn't happen. I think in 2020 you did about 50

[00:06:36] James: shows.

[00:06:37] James: But I believe for 2022

[00:06:40] Troy: We did 1 43 this past year, we're, we're really lucky to operate under a, branding umbrella. that The Fire Below shows are me and anybody else. we do a lot of the tap rooms, we'll do a lot of opening gigs or a lot of like daytime festival slots that are just me and another member or two.

[00:06:55] Troy: And we kind of operate just for a logistics and get those Facebook likes, you know, a marketing [00:07:00] standpoint. this is The Fire Below acoustic duo and this is The Fire Below acoustic Trio or whatever. So, Facebook events have made that so easy to just label it a Fire Below show, and then in the description be like, acoustic trio show with blah, blah, blah, it's a liberty that I think more bands now that we've done it, quote unquote, successfully in this scene, wish that they had done, you know, like, oh, I have this solo career. That's fine, and people enjoy it while they're there. But I have this band that's successful and people come out to. And it doesn't translate because they don't recognize the name of that dude with the guitar that you like.

[00:07:33] Troy: You already like him. But you know, to just be like, we do a lot of trim of The Fire Below when it's solo stuff, making sure that it's uniform. I kind of stumbled into that, but it has played out very well for us.

[00:07:44] James: that's fantastic. so much thought has to go into something like that. So I really like the idea of essentially what you have is a modular band. you can add the pieces and take them away, like little Lego bricks,

[00:07:55] Troy: We are the tiny house of

[00:07:57] Troy: folk rock,

[00:07:59] Troy: we're, we're building a [00:08:00] compound over here.

[00:08:01] James: Oh, I love it. So you did 143 shows in 2022. That's basically three shows a

[00:08:06] James: week, on average. I imagine a good chunk of those were over summer because winter kind of sucks in Vermont.

[00:08:13] Troy: Yeah, it's hard. we expanded our reach more than ever in 2022 as far as distance traveled from home in Burlington, Winooski area for us. but a lot of those days, like you're saying, I mean, I, one weekend comes to mind, we played four sets in two days.

[00:08:28] Troy: it was my first experience with uh, cortisone to make sure my voice held out, you know, taking that sweet festival show.

[00:08:34] Troy: we played gig, just a regular, duo headlining gig. And then we opened for Arlo McKinley, who was on John Prime. He still is. He's on John Pine's record label. Really cool in the vein of like Jason Isbell, Tyler Childers's kind of, country outlaw rock. And then we got an emergency sos call to open this festival called Afterglow, which is like a suicide prevention festival, but it draws like 8,000 people.

[00:08:57] Troy: up in Franklin County up in St. Albans, and they were like, [00:09:00] we need someone to start the day. Like, can you make it out? And we made it out. And then we opened for Brett Denon that night. So it was a wild 48 hours.

[00:09:08] Troy: the guy was like, you're gonna feel great for about 20 hours and then you're gonna wish that you could sleep forever.

[00:09:13] Troy: And I'm like, lay it on me. It's, they're just gigs. But coming down from Cortisone Man, I was like, this is no joke. I mean, I guess if I was ever playing like Lollapalooza or whatever, I'd do it again. hell, if I was ever playing the farmer's market down the street, I would do it again.

[00:09:25] Troy: I hate canceling gigs.

[00:09:27] James: Oh yeah, I remember, I saw you at Shelburne Winery, and your voice was going out. You had a cold. Was that that weekend.

[00:09:32] Troy: It was that weekend. Yeah. So we had I think it was Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So I think, I played through that that weekend. I was thinking it was a Wednesday, Thursday off Friday, Saturday, but no.

[00:09:42] Troy: Yeah, it was back to back.

[00:09:43] James: I think you're right. Actually, I think it was a Wednesday at the Shelburne Winery.

[00:09:47] Troy: Okay. We're doing Thursdays this year,

[00:09:48] James: Got it.

[00:09:49] James: Well, cool

[00:09:50] James: Beans are spilled Thursday's. Shelburne Winery all summer.

[00:09:53] James: Right.

[00:09:53] Troy: all summer, June, July, and August. And that has been

[00:09:55] Troy: announced,

[00:09:56] Troy: I'm really bad at that. I'll tell people things and they're like, cool. Like, when can I get [00:10:00] tickets for that? I'm like, probably like three or four months when it's announced.

[00:10:02] Troy: Like maybe don't tell people that. that's like my fatal flaw. Like Dan Raje will look at me. He's like, what the hell did you just tell that guy? I'm like just everything this band has going on no big deal. I'm sorry.

[00:10:14] James: Hey, at least no one will ever leak your stuff because you've already leaked it

[00:10:18] Troy: exactly. And I can just act appalled when it ends up on consequence of sound or whatever. When we reach that, I'd be like, who would've done this?

[00:10:25] James: It wasn't me.

[00:10:26] Troy: I'm a fan of the leaks. Without it, we would've never gotten American idiots. So that's where I, I'm hanging my hat

[00:10:30] Troy: on that.

[00:10:31] James: that's fair. That's a solid album.

[00:10:33] James: The musical was fun too.

[00:10:34] Troy: I have not seen the musical, I just got into the Broadway musical thing. I went and saw the Harry Potter Broadway musical in person. We

[00:10:41] Troy: were down in New York City playing a show. we were actually in the Cultural Hub of America, which was Hoboken, New Jersey, playing a show.

[00:10:48] Troy: We played at this place called Finnegans, it's a big Irish bar, with a guy, Sean Tobin, who I met at South by Southwest. And when you meet people like that, you know, especially 2000 miles from home or whatever, you're like, we should connect and play some shows.

[00:10:58] Troy: And you're like, yeah, man, [00:11:00] totally. And then you, there's like a 90% chance that never

[00:11:02] Troy: happens. And, we, we stayed connected and we ended up doing a run of four shows together,

[00:11:06] Troy: so he's a really great dude, but he's from Hoboken. So we uh, started down there and then we ended in Winooski. We did a, a monkey house, gig, which was great to get his band up here and hear what he has going on. He

[00:11:17] Troy: sounds just like

[00:11:17] Troy: Bruce Springsteen, but if Bruce Springsteen sang in the front bottoms.

[00:11:21] James: So it's a New Jersey thing

[00:11:22] James: front bottoms are from New Jersey too,

[00:11:23] James: aren't They

[00:11:24] Troy: Yeah. I guess when I said that out loud, I was thinking stylistically, but yeah, geograph, geographically, I guess is how I

[00:11:30] Troy: wanna pronounce that as my English major. That's why I'm always mortified hearing myself back.

[00:11:34] Troy: It's like, I know that word and I said it how chose that pronunciation in front of people. Geo graphically. No. The front bottoms are, are one of my fades too. So uh, I would check that out. I would listen to the front bottoms cover. Born in the usa.

[00:11:46] James: they've probably done it in secret. leak it someday.

[00:11:49] Troy: I'll leak it for them.

[00:11:50] James: Yeah, exactly. they are playing

[00:11:52] James: higher ground in May two shows, which is cool. But you know what's even cooler? You are playing higher ground in April, and actually this [00:12:00] episode, if you're listening on the day it comes out, it's April 4th, which is a Tuesday.

[00:12:04] James: Your show is this Saturday, April 8th, and if you're listening on the radiator, today is Wednesday the fifth. So it's three days difference. Or if you're listening in the future, apologies. You missed it.

[00:12:15] James: look up the next Troy Millette show or you know, build a flux capacitor that works too.

[00:12:19] Troy: that'd probably be easier sometimes than finding what I have going on. I find that I'm not always the best about like, updating the details on our website. Like the dates are there and

[00:12:28] Troy: people are like, Hey, what time should I show up? Is this a 2:00 PM gig or a 2:00 AM gig? It's like, it's a really good question.

[00:12:33] Troy: I'm gonna be there all day. Just feel free to come by whenever

[00:12:36] James: I'll play a set just for

[00:12:37] James: you.

[00:12:37] Troy: I have done that. I've done my fair share of like post gig, like, oh, I was really hoping you'd play this. And I just like, I'm like, oh, I'll do that. I'll play that. no big deal. So there's a level of it that's charming and if you had to deal with me a level of it, that's super annoying when people are like, Hey, we could go home.

[00:12:53] Troy: You know, if you would just like not keep playing wagon wheel for these people,

[00:12:57] James: are you saying there's a time when you're not super annoying,

[00:12:59] Troy: [00:13:00] I'm implying

[00:13:00] Troy: that there might be a percentage of time that I'm not unbearable to be around.

[00:13:05] James: I will have to explore that because all the puns, they're not at all like the puns I make, my puns are

[00:13:11] James: amazing. who would ever grown at my puns, aside from everyone I know.

[00:13:16] Troy: all the monthly listeners of this podcast are like totally cool with you continuing to do what you're doing.

[00:13:21] James: Oh, I

[00:13:21] James: know. the puns are fire.

[00:13:23] Troy: Below the puns are fire below.

[00:13:25] James: Oh, anyway, so you're playing higher ground in

[00:13:28] James: a couple days. And

[00:13:29] James: like we were talking about, a lot of the shows you do are solo duo trio gigs, but then you also have a fair share of full band gigs and you play higher ground at least once a year as a which is really cool.

[00:13:42] James: Cause a lot of artists don't even get to that level. And you do it consistently. You get invited back. They don't hate you. They must enjoy your sense of humor. I don't know

[00:13:52] James: why

[00:13:52] Troy: Me neither. I'm, I'm still like,

[00:13:54] Troy: you're making a list and I'm like, yeah. These are the complaints they have in their emails when they reach out.

[00:13:58] James: yeah, I mean they're [00:14:00] probably saying, don't tell the Jackson Brown story for the 500th time.

[00:14:03] Troy: We almost got to open for Jackson Brown last year because of that story around town

[00:14:08] James: wait, really? This one's new. I have not heard this one.

[00:14:11] Troy: Jackson

[00:14:12] Troy: Browne came to the Flynn and Higher Ground sent us an email and they're like, we hope you don't mind, but we've submitted you for tour support to Jackson Browne when he comes through, because everybody around town knows this story of you meeting him and we just think it would be hysterical for you to get

[00:14:26] Troy: up on stage and like explain yourself on how you wound up here. And he ended up doing an evening with, we didn't necessarily

[00:14:33] Troy: lose the opening spot, but no one got it. but yeah, I'm very thankful for the folks at Higher Ground. they're one of the venues, especially since Arch RT moved outta town that have made it a point to kind of keep their thumb on what, not just our local Burlington community, but what our local music communities in the sense of.

[00:14:47] Troy: the circuit, Maine, New Hampshire, mass New York, you know, kind of what

[00:14:51] Troy: those folks have going on and kind of get people who work hard and they really value people who are, putting the effort in. So we've kind of always tried to do our best by them. And I [00:15:00] think they've reciprocated that energy.

[00:15:01] Troy: You know, there's something to be said for timeliness and politeness and flexibility. with a situation that can be very plug and play, one situation comes to mind, it was the first time we'd played there that wasn't just me or me and Dylan Gomes, the fiddle player.

[00:15:14] Troy: We played with a drummer, and we were opening for the ghost of Paul Revere who just broke up. But they went on to played Red Rocks with, the lone bellow and kind of in that folk pop vein. And there was a snowstorm. They were flying in from LA and then driving up from Boston.

[00:15:28] Troy: They'd just played Conan a

[00:15:29] Troy: couple nights before. . And we loaded in at noon, I believe, and at 5:30pm The ghost, of Paul Revere had still not made it there because of the travel conditions, sold out show. And we forfeited our sound check for them. They loaded in and it was, you know, higher grounds.

[00:15:43] Troy: was Like, Hey guys, we're gonna be able to line check, we'll get you sounding good. But even though we'd been sitting there all day, you know how that goes. And my

[00:15:49] Troy: affect to that was like, yeah, no worries. the drummer we were playing with. He's like, you're not pissed that we've been sitting here for hours and we're not gonna get to soundcheck.

[00:15:56] Troy: And I was like, oh, it's frustrating, but being upset doesn't [00:16:00] change anything. So, you know, it's better to be flexible and to go out and we still play it the best we could. higher ground again, did right by us. We didn't annoy our sound engineer with all these requests. They're griping, you know?

[00:16:10] Troy: And like, I think that when you are, willing to work hard and give people the benefit of the doubt, they're willing to do the same for you. And I'm really thankful to have that relationship with higher ground because as you said, There's a lot of amazingly talented people in town who don't even get the opportunity to get it right or wrong

[00:16:25] James: exactly. And especially, you know, like you go play higher ground, you're getting food, you're getting free wifi, they take care of you. You have a couch, you can take a nap, you can go out on the balcony and watch nothing going on because the other band is six hours

[00:16:38] James: late.

[00:16:39] James: But these are all possibilities.

[00:16:40] James: So, I mean, hey, why complain when? This is probably one of the sweetest gigs you're ever gonna play.

[00:16:46] Troy: it is pretty sweet, you know and we've been, like I said, we've been really lucky somehow to, to kind of stumble around, uh, this region that I just mentioned and play some great venues. Funk, and waffles is another one that comes to mind that I'm always stoked to get out there. You know, they treat the artists really well.

[00:16:59] Troy: The [00:17:00] facilities are really nice, So whenever they gimme a call, even if it's not, oh yeah, you want me to drive six hours to play 45 minutes? Yeah. Cool. I would love to like, you know, it's, it's one of those venues and I think

[00:17:09] Troy: higher ground is kind of, one of those ask you to jump and respond how high venues.

[00:17:14] Troy: But for me, in a really positive way I know by giving them that energy and giving them that time and that head space, that's reciprocated with opportunities that a lot of people, like I said, who are equally as talented, if not more in some case, artist objective. But then I would deem like, oh, this is a band that's really doing it.

[00:17:31] Troy: and they don't see those same opportunities because A, they haven't had any opportunities to be that way or B have responded to kind of not ideal circumstances in a way that kind of sheds that, oh, they're not willing to participate mentality,

[00:17:45] James: Yeah. Seeing that all too many times, it's, I'm really ashamed to see a good artist get blacklisted from a venue because they were hotheaded and did something stupid.

[00:17:55] Troy: And it's also, you kind of fall into these little scenes. I mean, I think now that they're debunked, I don't mind talking about it a little [00:18:00] bit, but, for the longest time we had trouble getting into Arts Riot,

[00:18:04] Troy: which was a venue I really wanted to play. It was a really cool venue. Even until the day they, they locked the doors on it, A really great atmosphere, really nice sound system.

[00:18:11] Troy: lots of turnover in their staff. But I never had any problems there. But it was one of those things that when we finally booked a show there, it was opening for the front bottoms,

[00:18:19] Troy: they were kind of like, yeah, we just, anytime your name came up to open a show or be a part of a show, we just assumed that you wouldn't want to because you work with Higher Ground.

[00:18:27] Troy: that

[00:18:27] Troy: was the assumption they had drawn is that I was part of, Alex Crowthers and Kevin States are seen, which I love those guys. and I love being a part of that, but they just kind of, in their head, had this pigeonholed oh, well they don't want to come over here.

[00:18:38] Troy: They'll go play a higher ground.

[00:18:39] Troy: you can't have that mindset as a local musician in this scene. it's very hard to continue to be sustainable in your own local scene, which is where you need to be, sustainable. I mean, this is where our nest egg is if we

[00:18:50] Troy: wanna play a show to 200 people, we play

[00:18:52] Troy: in

[00:18:52] Troy: Burlington we're

[00:18:53] Troy: not, drawing 200 in Portland yet, we might have 40 people really excited about what we're doing in Portland and I'm thankful for them.

[00:18:59] Troy: But your [00:19:00] local communities are where your, band lives and dies, in my opinion.

[00:19:03] James: Yeah, absolutely. Well, now speaking of higher ground

[00:19:06] James: or any larger high profile show that you play, what do you do differently to promote those shows compared to like, let's say, a solo show at a winery or a restaurant?

[00:19:16] Troy: I think the difference in perspective that needs to happen on my end, and sometimes it's hard to flip that switch as we get closer to a show like that, is that a lot of these other businesses are sustainable. in other realms. there's a certain amount of built-in crowd at Shelburne Vineyard that is just gonna be in there because they have delicious wine and they're open.

[00:19:35] Troy: anything that I bring to that is in additive the higher ground space without a band in it is a square room with no furniture, is the reality.

[00:19:44] Troy: their nest egg, their draw that night is the package we're bringing in. the shift in focus for me is how do we not devalue these other smaller shows that we're playing leading up to them, and instead use them as a marketing and kind of a meet and [00:20:00] greet, to get people interested in this bigger ticketed event.

[00:20:03] Troy: How can I get involved and make you interested and make your experience here better in a way that you want to come see. What experience me in my band can offer you that is, the thing you're here for. it's tricky. I think that I'm not necessarily the best at selling myself.

[00:20:18] Troy: I think I am really enjoy talking to people. I think I really enjoy, the interactions I am all for to a degree people like participating in the shows, especially

[00:20:29] Troy: when it's

[00:20:30] Troy: me and Dan or me and Dylan. And it's just kind of, I want this set. Even if there's 55, 75 people here to be what it would be in your living room if we were doing the same thing.

[00:20:39] Troy: I want you

[00:20:39] Troy: to laugh that joke. I want you to shout out that story that I just, reminded you of your horrible ex, like, I'm telling you about mine. You know, but I don't necessarily do a great job of being like, Oh, and here's the QR code and buy the ticket.

[00:20:51] Troy: right now, I'll watch you. You know? And I think

[00:20:53] Troy: there's an element to that that you, kind of have to have that hustle to make it to that next level. And I, I think we get there, but unfortunately, I think we [00:21:00] get there sometimes, like three days before the show, when I'm reaching out to every single person I know and I'm like, presale tickets really help artists.

[00:21:06] Troy: Like, can you just buy one right now? You're coming, great. Just buy one right now. I wish I had that internal trigger to turn that on earlier.

[00:21:12] James: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a growing experience, like we all change over the years, and I have no doubt that you now are much better at selling stuff than you were 10 years ago. you've always been somebody who's very open to taking any opportunity that comes your way. That's why you've been able to play 150 shows a

[00:21:30] James: year. that's huge. And a lot of artists would say, ah, that's not an ideal show. Let's not do it. But guess. Now you're playing solo shows and making a decent chunk of change. I'm not gonna spill the numbers, but I remember you told me what the

[00:21:42] James: numbers were. I'm like, whoa, that's, most bands would like kill for that.

[00:21:47] Troy: and it has been a shift in perspective, and I'm so thankful for Dan and Derek who have played in bands for much of their music career. They weren't doing

[00:21:53] Troy: the solo stuff. we have this policy as a band it's unwritten, but it's not unspoken, when we accept [00:22:00] gigs, we kind of try to view it as a blank slate.

[00:22:02] Troy: Does the monetary amount equal or outweigh the opportunity? There's a way to get compensated as an artist when you're trying to make those. steps That isn't necessarily cash, higher ground reaching out and I'll, I'll use a totally fictitious situation. counting Crows need an opening slot locally.

[00:22:20] Troy: We can pay you 250 bucks. Great everybody goes there and makes 50 bucks. But the opportunity, a, to maintain a relationship with your local venue, and b, to be on a show that you would be at, that you would want to attend if you weren't part of the bill outweighs whatever the financial will be.

[00:22:36] Troy: a restaurant gives you a call and they're like, we really need help boosting business in here. We want three hours of music and we can give you 50 bucks. I have gotten way better at shooting back the thank you so much. Like for thinking of us and enjoying what I do and reaching out.

[00:22:48] Troy: Unfortunately, like the minimum I can do for this is this, where I fall short selling myself. I have gotten much better at being like, I can't make this happen because these costs and this time [00:23:00] commitment still hits me. I can't

[00:23:02] Troy: leave my day job early to get here for six o'clock and set up for an hour and only make 50 bucks.

[00:23:08] Troy: it's funny because I think we mentioned this on the last episode. If you're a carpenter, you can slap a number on what those material costs are and then be like, plus I charge $75 an hour for labor. It's gonna take me at least this long.

[00:23:22] Troy: So you're looking at this quote and people can wrap their heads around it because it's tangible good. It makes sense to them that plywood costs, this nails cost this, your time costs this, and here is the number. And within, you know, a hundred and whatever dollars on either direction, you're gonna fall somewhere in there, depending on the

[00:23:39] Troy: time and material costs.

[00:23:41] Troy: As an artist, people don't see the cost that exists that they deem are already things you own. They don't deem your time, your rehearsal time and space as an expense because they don't see how that directly affects the gig that you're playing for

[00:23:55] Troy: them. And I think that I've done a better job of not rubbing that, how [00:24:00] dare you ask for my time for this much, but informing people in a really kind way of like, why I can't, selling it as like, would really love to play every single gig that comes across my Gmail screen.

[00:24:10] Troy: I really would, but. I do have a personal life and relationships, and I do have value on if I take this gig to lose money, to pay these guys out, no free food and drinks, it is a business at the end of the day. And, and I've just think I've done a much better job of like selling that to people.

[00:24:26] Troy: If you want to do it, I will come do it for this if you're still interested. And I find that a lot of the time when presented with kind of that array, here's the spread. If I had to give you an invoice, you're paying this for my rehearsal time, whatever. People are like, okay, all of a sudden, $400 isn't unreasonable for uh, the duo to come 200 bucks a person is actually like a pretty reasonable cost for two and a

[00:24:47] Troy: half hours I think that the scene has for so long has had either the, we need to make a thousand dollars an hour to play bands or that we will play anything anywhere, anytime.

[00:24:57] James: Yeah, there's no in between

[00:24:58] Troy: And the middle ground [00:25:00] became really mucky for a really long time. And I actually, you know, not in a way that I was like, oh, shaded by it, but found myself kind of being the bearer of the murky middle ground for a lot of bands, like getting to venues and they'd be like, you know, so-and-so told me they wouldn't come play for 150 bucks.

[00:25:15] Troy: And it's like, yeah. And if I was bringing three people, like so-and-so was, I wouldn't be here for 150 bucks either. it became a kind of this do I really want to be the sounding horn for this issue? But I think if more bands don't start setting that number, having those talks internally, I can justify getting off the couch to go play radio.

[00:25:31] Troy: for, you know, a hundred bucks on a Saturday because I would go hang out at Radio Bean anyway. That's no loss.

[00:25:37] Troy: I'm not asking anybody for anything. I don't need to purchase anything. I'm not promoting anything, It's just me showing up and being there. But it's hard to ask a guy who has a wife and a kid or someone who plays in three other bands that they're rehearsing with to skip rehearsal.

[00:25:49] Troy: Like they're, their time is valuable and their commitment to these shows is valuable. the time commitment is not the 90 minutes on stage. You know, the old trope is, I would do this for free. If I could walk in here and walk [00:26:00] on stage and someone handed me my equipment, my rate would be a fraction of what it is for the emails, for the load ins,

[00:26:05] Troy: for the travel. those are the parts that I think really burn out people who are very interested in creating and being on stage to show

[00:26:12] Troy: people what they've created.

[00:26:13] James: That's why people like me exist to tour, manage.

[00:26:16] Troy: it is definitely not the same art form. and I also think it's really interesting. I was just chatting with someone on how involved all members of a crew in a band, so we're looking at bringing on maybe one extra staff member for additional shows and cutting them in as a member or whatever their hourly rate, if they have a number in mind, might be in, in making that work.

[00:26:33] Troy: It's like, that's gotta be a guy we like. If you're writing novels,

[00:26:37] Troy: you just find the best guy in a business, and even if he's a total jerk, you're only corresponding with him via phone calls and emails. maybe a, suck up lunch. Every now and again, if you're counting someone as a member of your band, most likely as this progresses can be spending hours and hours and hours

[00:26:52] Troy: with this person

[00:26:53] Troy: outside of your field, outside of that venue, off that stage, you know?

[00:26:58] Troy: And it's like you gotta like [00:27:00] that person. There's gotta be a dynamic that

[00:27:01] Troy: fits. This person has to be. A member of this band in a lot of weird ways. You know, the, I mean, the most famous example is uh, George Martin and the Beatles. You know, that guy was just, the silent member of that group.

[00:27:11] Troy: his skills just weren't singing and harmonizing, but that band doesn't exist in the way we know it without his contribution, which is, is very

[00:27:19] Troy: interesting to think. I, I'm curious, I would've been curious to see what people's perception, or if they even knew what his role was at the time of the Beatles actually being out, being the Beatles.

[00:27:27] James: I feel like most people still don't know who he is unless they're diehard Beatles fans, which to be fair, I'm not, but I'm an engineering nerd, so I know him from that angle of it,

[00:27:37] James: and we're not talking about the Game of Thrones.

[00:27:39] James: George

[00:27:40] James: Martin,

[00:27:40] Troy: it's not the

[00:27:41] Troy: same guy. I thought the Beatles all wrote Hobbit fan fiction.

[00:27:44] James: Oh, shots fired.

[00:27:46] Troy: this is gonna get some views now. You are welcome. We're smack talking Game of Thrones. we played a show in the showcase, and the show in the ballroom was 99 neighbors a

[00:27:57] Troy: very successful local hip hop band.

[00:27:58] Troy: And their [00:28:00] team is huge. And those people are all as passionate. The videographer, the wardrobe folks, they're brought their own engineers. Those people all seemingly are as passionate about that project through a different lens than the five guys who stepped on stage. And I just thought that was such a cool thing to see.

[00:28:18] Troy: And like, how do you build that community? not everybody's lucky to have five friends who all work in audio visual, when they're coming up. It's like, so how do you hire for that dynamic without. Creating this really weird synthetic power dynamic where everybody actually hates it and doesn't want to be there, but you're signing checks. You know the, the music industry is very weird. Like that

[00:28:37] James: It's one of those things where the music industry a lot of times you expect it that you can hire somebody you've never met. They're gonna show up, they're gonna do the job, and they're gonna go home and you know, they'll get paid at some point. that's how it is like, From my time on Warp Tour, there is a Facebook group on Warp Tour specifically for people who were on Warp Tour at some point.

[00:28:56] James: Like, you cannot get in there if you were never on Warp Tour.

[00:28:58] James: So they post gigs [00:29:00] all the time and basically if you're in that group they know like, okay, this person's not a total idiot. We can give them a try. last summer I saw a post and said, Hey, I can do, it was a show in Rutland down at the uh, is it The Paramount,

[00:29:13] Troy: Yeah, the,

[00:29:14] Troy: theater, the Flynn, it's like the 600 seat version of the Flynn. It's a beautiful theater.

[00:29:17] James: Yeah. I loved it. super nice staff. little old lady working in the box office was talking about like that nice little merch kid or whatever, . I was like, yep, that's

[00:29:26] James: me.

[00:29:27] Troy: show was it? can you say on here?

[00:29:28] James: yeah, it was

[00:29:29] James: post-Modern Jukebox

[00:29:30] Troy: very cool.

[00:29:31] James: which funnily enough, I later found out. Somebody I know is their manager.

[00:29:36] James: And my first, well, not first bus driver on Warp Tour, but one of the bus drivers on my first tier of Warped tour.

[00:29:41] James: Cause we had three . There's a story there. He used to be the driver for Postmodern Jukebox in like 20 17, 20 18. So after I did Warped Tour, but before I was here. So I was like, wait, I know like half their team.

[00:29:53] James: Anyway, all that stuff just showed up, worked the show, met the tour manager. She said, okay, cool. If you need anything let me know. I'm [00:30:00] like, cool, see ya.

[00:30:01] James: And I worked merch and then I put it in the boxes at the end of the night, did a, like an Excel sheet and sent it to her or a Google sheet realistically, and got paid the next day.

[00:30:09] James: It's you just show up. There's no training, nothing like that. You're just expected to know what

[00:30:14] James: you're doing.

[00:30:15] James: And that's the music business. it's very wild

[00:30:17] James: west.

[00:30:18] Troy: I hate the semantics of this, but like it really is this boys club of like, to break into the scene is very hard for people, I think. And I think it's

[00:30:27] Troy: only getting increasingly harder. , you know, where we've been really lucky. We had some older folks, Jamie Lee Thurston and Keegan Nolan, and you know, these people who are kind of doing it.

[00:30:34] Troy: The guy's in 8 0 84, who

[00:30:35] Troy: kind of like, let us run around with them and mess it up for a while. but now, you know, it's like I get messages all the time like, Hey man, who can we contact about playing here? And it's I could tell you who to contact, but I can't tell you who to contact that would care.

[00:30:48] Troy: Because same thing, they expect

[00:30:50] Troy: this quality of thing to roll in here. I remember a band reaching out to me that had a couple friends in it and they're like, Hey uh, the venue just asked me for these things. Can you tell me what they are before I [00:31:00] respond? and it's just like, I'm more than happy to do that.

[00:31:02] Troy: But there is a learning curve and again, a lot of people are looking for plug and play you're also marketing yourself while you're there, whether you're the artist or not. Is this a guy that's gonna want local crew work? the same guys work, every local crew show that rolls Silverman.

[00:31:16] Troy: If they've been doing it for 40 years, you can catch 'em, hang and trust at any show. And it's because it's like, well, these are the 10 guys that we've deemed know how to do it. They're chill

[00:31:24] Troy: to be around. They don't bug our talent when they roll in here. Like they take their comp tickets, they take their check and they move on.

[00:31:30] Troy: And so someone like just graduated from high school's, like, well, I really wanna work in staging at the CH Museum show. It's like, yeah, I'd probably suggest getting a bouncing job at higher ground and telling people you're interested for two years until someone's like, Hey, we actually could use an extra hand.

[00:31:44] Troy: You know, it's very much a work your way through the, corporate ladder situation, which you wouldn't think it would

[00:31:48] Troy: be. But that is very much do these jobs that you're mildly, you mildly tolerate, but you're not interested in. And then eventually you might find your way to this.

[00:31:57] Troy: a competency level is just so huge. And [00:32:00] I, I think a lot of people miss the mark too. And a lot of these setups, it comes to a brand value. If you're the worst merch guy of all time. people will remember like, Hey, post modern jukebox, their guy was horrible.

[00:32:10] Troy: Even if you have

[00:32:11] Troy: to do with it. It's also a safety issue, right? Like a lot of these people are like,

[00:32:14] Troy: I could hang lights. And it's like, yeah, but could you hang 'em so they don't fall and kill five people? Because that would be a real bummer. Right? You

[00:32:20] Troy: know, like you might be interested in doing it, but like these shows are, you know, the budgets are already tight.

[00:32:25] Troy: You wouldn't think that for 6,000 seats or whatever, the CH museum or the fair hold, the bigger the ticket you want to draw, the bigger the price tag comes. So it's like, we're looking for efficiency. We're not looking for, we need 10 guys to do one job, just think that

[00:32:39] Troy: people search for opportunities in places that are a little misguided sometimes in, in the industry.

[00:32:44] James: Yeah, I agree. I feel like we could do a whole episode on this because it's really so true. Like one of the biggest jokes in the industry is making fun of full sale kids because they go to full sale and think they know everything. It's like you don't know anything. Everything they taught you is wrong. Now sit back and [00:33:00] watch

[00:33:00] Troy: And

[00:33:00] Troy: it's also just what is the industry standard versus in practice versus in technology. you might know the cutting edge, mixing software, but what do you do when you

[00:33:09] Troy: roll into Nectars and it's a 68 channel analog board that you've never seen? Well, this touring band that you're traveling with is expecting to play tonight.

[00:33:18] James: if you're lucky, there's a house engineer to show. . and, and we're so far off, track

[00:33:22] James: here, but one of my favorite moments of all time is my friend's band was playing Middle East upstairs in Boston. And I was gonna do sound for them cause I knew their stuff. It's a local show. They're from Boston. I, I lived in Boston and I apologize, middle East upstairs in Cambridge for everyone who just groaned and turned off the podcast. If you haven't already turned it off, I apologize sincerely. Anyway, so we showed up and I just walked up to the sound guy and I'm like, Hey, I'm James, my friends in, for the year.

[00:33:50] James: Were wondering if I could run sound for them. Is that okay with you? And the guy's like, oh yeah, sure. I'm like, okay, cool. And this was back in 2014. They have a digital board now, but back then it was [00:34:00] analog and I'd spent a lot of time on analog boards. But they are all different unless you have like the same brand and it's

[00:34:05] James: like in a family or something. And I believe this was a soundcraft or something, and I had never mixed on a soundcraft before, so I was stoked. Cuz Soundcraft is nice. Anyway, he showed me a couple things and then I just, I did my mix after the set. He comes up, he's like, man, that was really good. Like, that's one of the best mixes I've heard in this room.

[00:34:21] James: I'm just like, sick. I've never used this kind of

[00:34:24] James: board before, but I, I made it happen.

[00:34:26] James: And so that's exactly what you're saying. If somebody's only ever used digital and then they get to an analog board, well guess what? That's often a totally different beast, because on a digital board, you have everything you need.

[00:34:36] James: You have eq, you have compression, you have effects, all that stuff. On this analog desk that I was using at Middle East and most analog desks, you have EQ and you have gain. If you want compression, you're gonna have outboard compression. If you want effects, maybe you have like one or two effects units built in, but they're not great. So the stuff the guy showed me was literally like, here's the compressors, here's the effects, here's the sends [00:35:00] for those. Here's how you get them, where they're going. Like, okay, cool, I got it.

[00:35:03] Troy: it comes

[00:35:03] Troy: down to adaptability, you know, even something that serious. But, you know, back lining, you get to a gig and you expect, this is our setup. And they're like, Hey, actually like tight change over times. we're gonna backline there. Are you cool running through a Marshall instead of your Fender?

[00:35:15] Troy:

[00:35:15] Troy: okay, how do I get the tone out of this that I want? instead of sitting there and, and arguing with a venue order, I've adopted this like kind of two-step process hey, my name's Troy, blah, blah, blah. Like, we typically run this like this, like this do you guys usually do?

[00:35:30] Troy: 90% of the time they're gonna be like, yeah, it sounds like you know what you're doing. we'll run your setup.

[00:35:33] Troy: but it's good to be flexible. It's good to treat people, like people gasp. that's the big token is like, it doesn't matter whether you're selling. 20 tickets or 20,000 tickets, you should roll in there and be kind to people, give people the benefit of the doubt,

[00:35:46] Troy: also if you present yourself in a way that you're open to how this space wants to operate, but that you have a way that you have preferred or chosen for this project, most times people are willing to work [00:36:00] with you, even if they're the grumpy old sound engineer. they enjoy working with people who know what they want and how they plan on getting there.

[00:36:06] Troy: And then it becomes collaborative when it's like, I actually think you guys would sound really great if we gated this and you ran through, this sign Hauser instead of a 58. Great. Yeah,

[00:36:15] Troy: I'll try that tonight. Let's, let's give it a run during sound check. allow people to buy into what you're doing, be kind, be patient.

[00:36:21] Troy: And I think that opportunities come for. people I can't say it enough that if you don't get the opportunities, it's hard to capitalize on them. And I think that that's a whole nother issue in, uh, the industry at large. I heard a band hi podcast probably a couple months ago now, where you talked about tour packaging.

[00:36:35] Troy: How do I get my band on this bill? Realistically, there's nothing you could do I think that sometimes the perception, especially with younger bands now, cause I'm getting old, is that I don't want to share the secrets. It's that

[00:36:48] Troy: there's just nothing you can do.

[00:36:49] Troy: There's a reason that when third out blind rolls into town, I'm not opening. Because I know the people to talk to, it's because that is rolling through as a package and they're doing the same show 50 times across the country. And it doesn't matter if [00:37:00] I could guarantee to them that I would sell a thousand tickets, they don't care because Third Eye Blind's already gonna fill that room.

[00:37:04] Troy: And I think that that's a hard thing to get people to buy into until they've seen it happen. Until you've seen the machine churn and you've been at that show that you wished your band was on and the booking guy is there and he walks over, he's like, man, you would've been a great fit.

[00:37:17] Troy: Like, sorry, I couldn't make it happen. You know? It

[00:37:19] Troy: took a handful of times for me to get well, why couldn't you make it happen? You're the guy, I remember having those conversations. Granted they were probably

[00:37:25] Troy: almost 10 years ago now, but like one of the first times I was so hellbent when I started writing songs that I wanted to play at Higher Ground, Matt Nathanson, came to Higher Ground and I remember like having my music class at, BFA Fairfax, right on Higher Ground's Facebook Wall.

[00:37:40] Troy: That was back before they did like the messenger thing This kid should open for Matt Nathanson. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of comments like the whole school like ended up doing it didn't change anything, But when I was at the Matt Nathanson show and Nick Vaden was like, Hey, you're, you're Troy Mallet.

[00:37:54] Troy: Like, yeah. He's like, Hey man, it seems like there's a lot of people who really like what you do. Like, sorry, I couldn't make this [00:38:00] happen. And having that conversation with him is like, this guy's opening every show on this tour. the show's sold out. unless you're friends with a band or you have some in that they're interested in you, it's just money out the door to add, bands to a show that's already gonna sell out.

[00:38:13] Troy: You know, some

[00:38:14] Troy: bands, one that comes to mind is the dirty heads that they seem to like to break their friends bands or their side projects and seemingly enjoy the non stage time of a gig. They don't seem to like to hit much before 10:00 PM. A place like Higher Ground or a House of Blues wants to start shows at eight at the latest.

[00:38:31] Troy: You know, so, so it buys them some time where people are getting, $40 worth of music, but that the dirty Heads are only compensating for 90 of that, given their Hot 90. so there are reasons for it that even if you are going to be the draw that we would, curate an evening that incorporates other folks.

[00:38:46] Troy: But as far as a local get, I can think of a very small handful of people who might be willing to, sacrifice time out of their set and money out of their pocket to throw The Fire Below a bone. And that's not to say that we don't have people that I think actually really appreciate and like what we have going [00:39:00] on.

[00:39:00] Troy: It's just that that's not

[00:39:01] Troy: economically feasible or practical. And from a production standpoint, it's not additive, right? It's exponential putting five guys on the stage that don't quote unquote enhance this experience or benefit us from being here. gives us 50,000 things that can now go wrong when it comes time for that 15 minutes for me to get this band on the stage.

[00:39:20] Troy: it's one of those things logistically, monetarily, you know, a lot goes into, being added to a bill like that. I'll, I'll say this right now, I'll be blunt. Like if you are one of those bands who's playing around, turning your cold shoulder to your major venues and putting that energy out there, good luck.

[00:39:36] Troy: I hope you enjoy

[00:39:36] Troy: the venues who are already booking you. that's not to say that you can't be incredibly nice guys and incredibly talented, but if that's your affect towards these big venues who are running a business, good luck.

[00:39:46] James: I wanna highlight something you said earlier there's a great book called The Go-Giver, and that's essentially what you're talking about, saying it's much easier to just be flexible, be nice, treat people with respect, because if you do that, you're gonna go so much [00:40:00] further. And it's a great book. It's like 110 pages or something. Super easy. 10, 15 bucks on Amazon, absolutely recommend it. And I try to live my life like that.

[00:40:10] James:

[00:40:10] James: And I think you do too. I think I might have even mentioned this on the last episode. but it's just a fantastic book.

[00:40:16] Troy: yeah, I agree. And it's, it's one of those things too that also to be kind to yourself because you're not getting these tour packages, you know, like there's a reason for it. Even if that booking agent could have booked you on this show, there's a reason he didn't be realistic with what you offer.

[00:40:30] Troy: for better or worse. You know what, you're right. Our band was not ready to play with Paul McCartney but next time he comes through town, you know, we're gonna work really hard and we might be that's a pretty realistic way to look on not getting a show that you wanted to be on.

[00:40:41] Troy: I've seen great bands overpromise over commit to venues. Oh, put us in the big room. We'll sell 500 and you sell 50. And

[00:40:49] Troy: 50 is a good sell in a room that's appropriate for 50 people. that venue appreciates 50 sold in a room meant for 50, but instead you [00:41:00] overcompensate, you over Promise.

[00:41:01] Troy: The first time Higher Ground booked us for a headlining show. It was very, it was a conversation and they were do you think that you can bring a hundred people? And I was like, I think that I know a hundred people who would be really excited to be here. I won't tell you that. I know that they'll all show up and they booked

[00:41:15] Troy: us for a Thursday instead of a Saturday.

[00:41:16] Troy: And that was the compromise. is that if they don't, it's still all positive. Cause we're only staffing one guy. we're not pulling security from a bigger event across for this that then they lower the risk, but they were, appreciative of my perspective on that.

[00:41:30] Troy: And then they were like, well, how we can make this work for you because you were honest with what it might be. And we ended up selling about 160 tickets to that first headlining show. Which was great. Yeah. we were building momentum. We were easily selling 250 tickets to headlining shows at Higher Ground pre Covid d and then the last couple, you know, we're, we're getting back there.

[00:41:47] Troy: I think that there's a lot of bands in the scene there doing the same thing. I think that we found a lot screen time fans, those are the guys streaming

[00:41:54] Troy: your guys and gals streaming your stuff. I'm really appreciative of them too. But it's hard to get that many people who want to be in the [00:42:00] room for

[00:42:00] Troy: whatever reason, post covid.

[00:42:02] James: Well, speaking about getting people into that

[00:42:04] James: room again, this episode drops on April 4th, which is the Tuesday, and if you're listening before April 8th and you're in the Vermont area, go to higher ground

[00:42:13] Troy: Yeah. Up from below.

[00:42:14] James: It's a Saturday. Yeah, it's Troy Millet and The Fire Below, up from below, $20 in advance, 22 at the. It's not just a regular show, it's also music and comedy combined, which is very on brand for you cuz your sets are hilarious and they're basically half stand up anyway.

[00:42:30] Troy: Yeah. It's funny because it's the 25th anniversary of Higher Ground, this month, April. so they had a bunch going on for their 25th anniversary month, and I've been really lucky to, with the relationships I have with them, and they're like, we'd love to have you guys involved somehow.

[00:42:41] Troy: Not sure what that looks like. And the realities of a headlining show like that when you're paying for production and stuff, if you're not in the middle of a package tour Ebb and flowing with that cash flow. It's expensive to market a show. It's expensive to one off and engineer, for lights and sound.

[00:42:56] Troy: There's costs, you know, and it's, it's not unmanageable if you're gonna sell well, but it's, [00:43:00] it's a concern that you, put into this specific event. six months ago, we just did a headlining show at Higher Ground. That was a lot of fun. similar struggles we were hoping for more folks.

[00:43:08] Troy: The people who came out really wanted to be there we had a great time. So when Higher Ground was like, well, we have a headlining slot open, like, do you want it? And I was kind of like, for the first time I was like, I don't, I don't know. I'm very, yes, thank you for reaching out.

[00:43:20] Troy: let me circle back. And it was a couple days where I chatted with the band and the band's like, yeah, we can do it. let's scale back. I kind of had this like, I don't think scaling back is the right answer either, but I also don't think saying no is the right. answer. So I was at the Vermont Comedy Club I was like, this is great.

[00:43:35] Troy: This is a great atmosphere. What can we do that's incorporates this atmosphere? And it's like, well, we incorporate this. And the idea

[00:43:43] Troy: was, okay, like, well, what if there's no downtime? What if we just keep the night rolling and we do it festival style? I, I don't know if you remember the old Grand Point North grace Potters Festival.

[00:43:52] Troy: It was side by side stages, so you just bounce, boom,

[00:43:54] Troy: boom, boom, no, gap. So that was the original concept was, okay, let's load this night and [00:44:00] people come in here at six 30 and starting at seven until The Fire Below hits their last, no, at 10 15, it's something going on. we shot that back to higher ground and they were interested.

[00:44:11] Troy: And you know, this was the first higher ground show where the, the band was actually involved in asking Who the opening bands are gonna be. I've always

[00:44:18] Troy: asked my friends, and they've always been like, yes, they're great. I love playing shows with them. Let's have them. But Derek was like, Hey, I'd really like Iva may to play.

[00:44:25] Troy: Like she's, she's my roommate. She's really crushing it. she's prepping her new record he's like, two stroke motors are really cool. And Milton Busker and the Grim work, her friends VARs Dan and I have opened for their band, solo and Duo trio, kind of everything, but full band.

[00:44:38] Troy: Played with them. We're like, yeah, let's get these people on a bill. And I've got to meet some great new folks through the comedy scene. Liam Welsh and Nick Sisk and Mike Thomas. All doing really solid support work at the Vermont Comedy Club. when national acts are rolling through, this is me selling it, is the price tag of 20 bucks for four bands and three comics especially of the caliber of musicians and comics that are gonna be at this event.

[00:44:59] Troy: I'm blown away. I [00:45:00] can't wait to attend this event. it's just a bonus that at the end of the night I get to walk up there Share what I have going on with folks, and we're, we're working on a new record. We're gonna be playing a bunch of new songs, during that set. So I'm really excited to get that stuff out there as well.

[00:45:11] James: that's fantastic. So again, that is Saturday the eighth at Higher Ground, the showcase lounge. Unless, hey, I mean maybe if you keep selling, gets

[00:45:18] James: bumped up to the big

[00:45:19] James: room, you never know.

[00:45:20] Troy: as of right now, we have the availability to do that, but uh, we would need those tickets to start moving. So as of April 4th, we're still hanging in the

[00:45:27] Troy: showcase

[00:45:28] James: April 4th, go buy all your tickets right away because you have four days to get that show

[00:45:32] James: moved. Theoretically, like two or three, because it has to be planned in

[00:45:35] James: advance.

[00:45:36] Troy: I'm very pro advanced Ticket. I always have been just

[00:45:38] Troy: because I'm like, I've kicked myself for sleeping on tickets enough.

[00:45:42] Troy: But, I think people really underestimate what it does for all artists, but especially your local, bands venues love to prep. They love to see those tickets move in advance. It, it really shows that there are people out there who have faith and interest In this project. It's also great for budgeting for us, can we justify this extra thing that's going to add to the show quality?

[00:45:59] Troy: [00:46:00] because we know we have that nest egg coming. Yeah. We're like folk rock kiss when we play higher ground. It's great

[00:46:04] James: I do love the light show.

[00:46:06] Troy: Yeah. Who doesn't love a light show, it, adds to the experience. I've seen shows that are like increasingly distracting a band I love that.

[00:46:13] Troy: I thought for like a long period of time just had a very bizarre production choices. New politics

[00:46:18] Troy: like before they were like a solid, reputable headlining tour act. Like, I just thought that it was like, why is everything a strobe light? what are we doing?

[00:46:25] James: yeah.

[00:46:25] James: It's interesting because I never had that thought with them, and we've both seen them a bunch of times.

[00:46:31] Troy: Hangs up my office wall.

[00:46:34] James: Oh, that is

[00:46:34] James: sick. Which show is that?

[00:46:36] Troy: this was the Dented Personality Show.

[00:46:37] James: Okay, so they're second headliner. It's

[00:46:39] James: 2013.

[00:46:40] Troy: So the first one was the nine 9 cent show. Right. And that's when I met them. And then, yeah, the second one. I've seen them so many times. They played a third headlining show on the showcase that was like packed. And that was the one where I was like, soon they will not be playing in the

[00:46:53] Troy: showcase.

[00:46:54] James: And I was gone for that, and then I was gone for their first headliner in the big room, in the [00:47:00] ballroom. Then I came back for the one in 2019.

[00:47:02] Troy: And they're done now, right? or hiatus, whatever is going on.

[00:47:05] James: Well, they just featured on a new song. When I say they, I mean, it was David,

[00:47:11] James: but it was billed as new politics,

[00:47:13] Troy: Cool. they're a band I've always enjoyed. I think that they kind of found and lost where the charm is in their sound a handful of

[00:47:21] Troy: times, but I also really respect bands that are willing to get it wrong,

[00:47:24] James: I do have to say unstoppable off of their 2019 record. That song is fantastic. That's one of the best things they've ever done.

[00:47:32] James: and apologies if any of the new politics guys ever end up listening to this. The rest of that album is just a flop for me. I love Unstoppable. It starts off killer and it's like, That was it. That's the one song on the album I listened

[00:47:42] Troy: I actually think new Politics is one of those bands that really taught me how to, compartmentalize and be compassionate with bands that I love. I really love the, like, pretty odd and fever. You can't Sweat Out era, panic at the disco. besides some of the hits of their newer stuff for the last like 10 years, it's [00:48:00] really been lost to me.

[00:48:00] Troy: I'm like, this is just a pop band. Like the coolest indie band in the world just went pop it, like sold out. But it's ignorant for me to not recognize that that stuff brought panic at the disco to arenas instead of theaters. that's the reason that they're opening Taylor Swift Stadium shows and not playing at the Flynn Theater in Burlington.

[00:48:18] Troy: so I think if you approach things like that, and I, I do, I don't have any doubt that Brendan Urie approached that stuff genuinely he put

[00:48:26] Troy: his effort and his time and, you know, some of those lyrics are really great, even though they're buried in synthesizers in 8 0 8 s and I wanted to.

[00:48:33] Troy: I Telecasters and, California snares, and I think new politics is one of those bands too, that I never heard anything from them that I thought was disingenuine. I just thought missed my mark

[00:48:43] James: Yeah. It was different, but it wasn't bad.

[00:48:45] Troy: Right. And I think that, that, a Bad Girl on Harlem record was like a perfect blend for me of

[00:48:50] Troy: like, this is the sound that needed to get you on the radio, but it still has that, edge and that angst of the self-titled

[00:48:58] James: Although the label did say no rap [00:49:00] on that album back in the day, so that was a

[00:49:01] James: bummer. That's why they stopped.

[00:49:03] Troy: I kind of like the rap stuff.

[00:49:04] James: I did. I enjoyed it. That's one of the things that got me hooked. I'll tell you a little story about the strobes we talk,

[00:49:09] James: I have a theory on that.

[00:49:10] James: Anyway, you mentioned you're working on a new album,

[00:49:12] James: so I head on here, what's next for Troy Millettet and The Fire Below, which sounds like a new album.

[00:49:16] James: Do you have like a rough timeframe in mind? What else is going on? Like, what's the scoop?

[00:49:21] Troy: we're in an interesting spot with it. We found ourself working at a new studio, Chris Hawthorne, who did all the singles and the first ep, moved back to Philly. So we kind of found

[00:49:29] Troy: ourself with all these. stems and all these partial tracks that we weren't playing live and that we're featuring studio guys and not representative of the guys who are now in this band we kind of put a pause on it.

[00:49:40] Troy: During Covid, we were working on a full length, so Chris moved and we have this pile of tracks, but we're not stoked on any of 'em. The, tracks that we still play out, we hadn't gotten to in the studio yet. So we, we connected with Jac Koons from Madea, he just opened a new studio, a home studio out of his garage.

[00:49:56] Troy: It's beautiful, state-of-the-art equipment, but. Garage [00:50:00] charm. he was kind of a guy who was like, I'm interested in being a part of what you're doing. what are the numbers? What is the time? And I, we found ourself in a studio situation where I just spend time there people are coming and going.

[00:50:12] Troy: And in the creative process and where these arrangements have gone, have just kind of evolved past, like, let's record these songs and get ‘ 'em out. So, the original timeline was for summer was when we wanted to

[00:50:23] Troy: have the record done for, and I think based on just the, the nature of the recording process, we were not looking to stifle it quite yet.

[00:50:30] Troy: So I say singles will be coming out by the beginning of summer and probably a fall release for the full length. But we are, oh geez, we're 45 to 50% there. we've also been talking about different release strategies in terms of like, do we release this as three eps? You know, the songs are kind of phases.

[00:50:47] Troy: there's batches of songs that tell. Particular stories, do we, release this in a way that people get a chunk of songs and then another smaller chunk of songs, and then the second half really? So that's kind of how we would see it. three, three and six [00:51:00] when the full album released, it would be, you know, all 12.

[00:51:03] Troy: we're toying with that. We're not married to that yet. But yeah, we definitely want to have something out as from a marketing angle, which I feel like you guys focus on this, podcast a lot. We played 143 shows last year basically promoting nothing. we did a Taylor Swift cover because we wanted to, and we wanted to have something to promote and it was something we could crank out.

[00:51:22] Troy: A reasonable amount of time. I think it's fun. I think people really enjoy it at shows. I was really happy with how it came out. it's not what we're working towards. And I think I was very intentional when we found Jer that I want this album to be what we're working towards.

[00:51:35] Troy: But I

[00:51:35] Troy: also want to make sure that we have something out there in June, July, August if we're not gonna have the record out there that people can be looking forward to, Hey, when you come see us in the fall, bring 30 bucks to buy this vinyl we hope you're gonna like it.

[00:51:48] Troy: I'm, I'm definitely stoked those things are coming. may single off that record and you'll get to hear it at Higher Ground. If you come on the eighth, I won't tell you which one is gonna be the single, but you will hear the song that is gonna be the single

[00:51:57] James: Fantastic. Yeah, so that show is [00:52:00] on Saturday the eighth at Higher Ground. You know, if you can go grab your tickets now. And aside from that, Troy, thank you so much for hanging out for the last hour and a half or so.

[00:52:08] James: Really appreciate

[00:52:09] James: One last question is where should people go to learn more about you?

[00:52:12] Troy: we've talked about only fans earlier. I would not go there troy blunt music.com. Facebook, Instagram. I've been trying to hit the TikTok game. So it, it's a tricky one because I feel like we find some things that, hit and people are interested in and other things. It's like six views.

[00:52:27] Troy: So TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, all at Millette music. Two Ls, two Ts. Two E's in Millette right? Yeah. No. Figure out how to spell it. It's like a Rubik's cube. We're playing Wordle right here with our social hands. M I L L E T T E M U S I C. we also have Facebook Turt and The Fire Below.

[00:52:48] Troy: And an official website, which is trent music.com. we keep that as updated as some 20 to 30 somethings realistically can

[00:52:55] James: All right, fantastic. Troy, thank you again so much. I hope you have an amazing evening, and I'll [00:53:00] see you at the show.

[00:53:00] Troy: Yes. See you there. Thank you.