Welcome to episode 83 of the Bandhive Podcast.

It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross and unfortunately I do not have matt hose of alive in Barcelona here with us today, but I'm looking at Troy Millette of Troy Millette and The Fire Below.

How's it going today? Troy? It's going great man, I rolled out of bed early to come do this. So, you know, early for a musician time. So it's before noon. Not really that early. Yeah, well, much appreciated. Especially since you guys played a show last night. So that's especially early on musician time. Absolutely. You know, you push everything back six hours if you have a gig the night before, I think so really by like two PM, I'm going to be firing on all cylinders. Yeah, exactly. There's a fire below upon somewhere in there, lighting a fire below somewhere.

Yeah, we've heard all the jokes, We haven't even been a band all that long, you know, in the grand scheme of things, but we've heard our fair share of career jokes with that name. Yeah, it's a very possible name and I'm all for that because I love making puns. That's like my thing on the show. Absolutely. Well, I'm looking forward to chatting with the end here and all these bad punts. Yeah, we'll just fire away and get things started. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, like musical journey and how you got to where you are now?

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Troy and I grew up in Fairfax Vermont, which is a small place with more cows than people you've been there. You know exactly how it is and you know, I was kind of fortunate and cursed with growing up in a place where all there really was around, we're your friends. So what my group of friends did is we ate a lot of Mcdonald's that we drove incredibly long distances to get and we started vance and we would just play in these bands.

So we started doing the kind of talent show, coffeehouse thing and when it came time for college and all that, I decided that I got more out of this than trying to impress that one girl in high school and decided to kind of take it out there and playing bars and I got some great opportunities to play like the fair circuits and here I am still kind of doing that same thing today. Yeah, that's awesome. And so he said The Fire Below hasn't been a thing for that long.

How long has the band been together? Oh man, So there's a great, there's kind of two stories about how The Fire Below came together and they're both equally important to the story. So I was playing nectars with my friend Dylan gamblers who plays the fiddle and we were playing Tuesdays before dead set, so we were playing like the dinner crowd and you know, that's just the nature of the beast as you, you know, you, you bring in an acoustic or a solo writer to play while people at dinner, you know, and what if people listen to you, it's a bonus, but that's, you know, you're just kind of there for the background noise and Ryan clawson, who is now our drummer was the booking manager, right, nectars.

And he's like, hey man, I'd really love to book you for, you know, a set that gets you Paid and I set that people come and dance to your stuff, but you can't just book a heavy guy with a guitar, you know, for our 9-1. And I'm like, yeah, I know, I know, like I like, I'm sorry, like I can play wagon wheel faster. I don't know, I don't know what's gonna, I don't know, it's going to do it. So he's like, well, drum for you. And I'm like, okay, so I kind of kept that in my back pocket and never called him on it.

Just because I assumed that it would be a hassle and that people want to be interested in these songs amped up that way. But then we were released, our record Living With a Ghost. And uh we were asked to play the after party for Grand Point North which Dylan and I had played as an acoustic duo of the year before. They're like, we'd really like you to play full band. I'm like, oh yeah, of course. Like what else would we play? As of course we're going to play full band.

So I just frantically called everyone I know like the guys who played on this record and we couldn't figure out when to get together to rehearse. So they were all just like, you know what, like, we know your stuff. We played on the record and Ezra Oakland came to drum with us and Trevor con toys. I don't know if you've met Trevor but like the guy can play a bar of soap and it would sound like Beethoven and Isaac french. So we put together this kind of makeshift band that Ryan wasn't even even though Ryan was the like the guy who got the wheel spinning.

So we played this show at the skinny pancake after Grand Point North and kind of the perks of playing a festival like that. And apparently the after party, if you try hard enough is like the free booze and the air conditioned bathrooms, which are really important things in the music industry. So I kind of exalted, I've called higher ground back and I told them that we play the after party at the skinny pancake, no problem with do a full band. Like I really need like I need backstage passes to the Grand Point North to make it happen to make it worth my time, which I'm not a power position.

And they're like, yeah, absolutely. And I was like I should ask for more money, I could have been like staying in the RV with grace potter if I tried. So I go there and I get kind of cut off from the kombucha cocktails like 7 30 at grand Point North and our band doesn't hit until 11 30 the first show ever. We haven't rehearsed and I'm using the air condition bathroom and I looked to my left and I'm like, that's Jackson Browne at the urinal next to me and my drunk brain is kind of uh it has like the angel and the devil on my shoulders, you know, like an old cartoon, my sober brain and drunk brain, sober brain is like, just play it cool and drunk brain is like Eminem in eight mile Dude, it's like you have one shot, one opportunity.

So as Jackson Browne is walking away from me in this bathroom, we kind of lock eyes and he gives me that like, really cool, like hi Chin Odd that like you would expect Jackson Browne to give you and I looked at him and I said, I guess now we're both running on empty and he just kind of walked away, so we go and we play this full band show and we launched into and we're playing all our stuff sounded great, These guys have really pulled it together and uh after the show, like these two guys come up to us and they're like, that was a great version of Running on empty, which I played because it had rubbed off on me and in my brain we could pull it off even though we didn't even know the songs I told them to learn.

I was like, we're going to play running on empty and they're like, man, you guys really great, you know, really? It's still like, this big confidence in me to keep doing it. Like, man, imagine if we'd rehearsed and then as they're walking away there, like, it's gotta ask, like, you're not the creepy guy from the urinal, are you? I have no idea what you're talking about, but so I kind of woke up that next day with, like, a headache is what I woke up with, but I was also like, man, this, we need to like, explore this and these songs need to come alive with percussion and bass.

And I've been really fortunate to work with a lot of people who are interested in what we're doing and my initial thoughts were to make this kind of a plug and play band that we would never have to turn down a gig because we could always just hire the next guy in line, you know, to just have enough friends and enough talented folks in business relationships that as long as I'm there, we can make it happen. And we've been really fortunate through Covid to kind of establish a lineup that is now the lineup and The Fire Below is like a real band.

It's like the Pinocchio of bands. We're a real band now. Oh man, that's amazing. That was a long story. I just talked so long. No, no, that's that's fine. I love it because I never knew that story. I wonder how far Jackson Browne spread that story from his perspective. I hope every time he eats Ben and jerry, she's like, remember the time Vermont, I really hope I have a stable in Jackson Browne's daily life in some form. He comes to bury pretty frequently because his god daughter lives here.

She's Warren Zevon's daughter, I had no idea. And so she had a nonprofit and he would do benefit shows at the Barry Opera House. He hasn't done one in a while, but I'm sure he still visits her because their family and all that. Yeah. Dylan and I actually played a show at a cafe impeach him and the people who own that had ties to Warren Zevon somehow as well. I'm wondering if it's the same, same connection that could very well be because like the non profit and barry shut down.

So I'm wondering if maybe she was like, hey, start a different business. Let's make some scones scones and on empty scone to the bone. No, back to the scone. Thank you for setting me up for that one. You're so welcome, You're so welcome. That's what I'm here for that. The scone that needs to be a parody, you got to get like a little old british lady singing it. If nothing else I by the T shirt or like a lawyer scones and money. Oh man, Well, that is amazing.

As with all the D. I. Y. Artists pandemic kind of steamrolled 2020 for you and it was a tough year, but you were one of the first artists I saw doing high production value live streams. We talked to Ryan Cohen from Robot Dog Studio on episode 34 of the podcast. If anyone wants to listen to that one after they're done on this one, you can go to band, I've got rocks slash 34 to listen and you know, he did a bunch of great live streams, he did, I think two or three over there with him and then as soon as possible and safe, you started playing physically distant shows, which is great or socially distanced shows.

I can't even remember the terms anymore. What kept you going at that time? That's a good thing. I think now that we don't have to remember what they're called. Yeah, I'm going out into public for the first time in years. We have a local baseball team in Montpellier called the Mountaineers and I'm a volunteer. I do sound and tonight is opening day and I get to actually go do a thing with like a crowd and being my little isolated booth above everyone else where it's safe and not paranoid.

But I'm looking forward to it. And it's good that things are turning around and the numbers are way down now, vaccine rates up. Covid rates down. I mean it's really knock on wood here, but at least where we are at in Vermont, we've been really blessed with the mindsets of people and kind of just keeping the energy levels high. We have a great leadership team at a government level and also, you know, it's a trickle down effect, right? When you, when you have that positive energy up here are venue owners in our creative folks and you know, the teachers in public, we, we've just been so fortunate with everybody's outlook during this, all things considered, which is kind of a great segue back to the initial question, which because I'm a chatty person, I kind of talked over you while you were delivering just kind of what kept me going.

That time was I have this really interesting dynamic as an artist. I'll call myself that during this podcast for better or worse, I have this real fear of change and I also have this real fear of stagnancy. There's a need to feel like I'm moving, but I don't want to necessarily move away from something. So I've always kind of been one of those people who looks forward to that next show, who looks forward to the next recording session. And you know, that's kind of, those are like my benchmarks and those kind of forced me slash keep me creative in the times in between.

And also, you know, as you know, someone who's been in the industry, sometimes it's a slog to do the things you love in this business because a mountain of emails, even if you're getting to play gigs, which is your favorite thing in the world, is still a mountain of emails sometimes, and I didn't realize how much I would miss amount of emails until I didn't have a mountain of I I did have a mountain of emails, but they're all cancellation emails and those are even worse than a normal amount of emails.

So as things started to kind of shift, my initial concerns were keeping my family and the people I love and myself safe. Can I leave the house? Can I get groceries? I had the same initial concerns as everybody. And I spent a lot of time in my house with a guitar writing songs. And then as things slowly, you know, the pendulum shifts a little bit that this is the new normal, At least for now. And you know, six ft and no more than five people in a room.

It's like, well, okay, so I'm not getting The Fire Below together anytime soon to go record an album or anything like that. But Ryan and I had kind of been in contact and he mentioned that he was kind of in his pot and between home and the studio and you know, getting his food delivered and picking up groceries and that's kind of his circle. And I was like, well I kind of have the same circle and it's just me, and he's like, well maybe we could come in and we could try like this facebook live platform, you know, which has been around for years, but it's like people selling jewelry for pyramid schemes is kind of what facebook live was to me, or like you're on a walk with your dog and you need to show the world for some reason and, you know, three people tune in and my grandma comments, even if she's not your facebook friend, I don't know how my grandma finds these facebook videos to comment on the algorithm is just like nancy needs to see this dog, she doesn't.

So we kind of were like, well let's let's see what we can do with it. And the first one was, I mean Ryan is a master of all things audio, so I knew it was going to sound great, but he converted these old iphones into portable video rigs and like started running switchers and he got to a point where his video production was pretty stellar for a guy who's running things live and on the fly and we kind of got to be his guinea pigs through that process, which was really lucky, just kind of right place, right time and having that, that friendship and relationship with him to kind of stay connected during the pandemic and I think we did five total to full bands and then I think we did three by myself, which was a really interesting business opportunity to, because we ended up linking up with like businesses and breweries and promoters that outside of Vermont who are just looking for content to shoot onto their pages actually think it was more than that now that I say it because we did, We did three for higher ground.

So we did six, we did three for ourselves and then the full band one. So we were there a lot where I lived at robot dog. That's awesome. I bet you've got lots of time with Robot. He's such a good puff. Yeah. Robot is not super interested in my nonsense when I'm there. He likes to say hello, like make an appearance and then he wants to move on with his doggy day. Yeah, there's only room for one diva at robot dog studio and its robot, it's robot. Yeah.

And that comes from a place of love Ryan. If you're listening, robot is awesome. I love Robot. Well it's not Ryan Dog Studio for a reason. Yeah, exactly. Oh man. Well, kind of on that note, do you have a rough idea of how many shows you've played since the pandemic hit, how many in person and how many live streams you've done? I would say 50 ballpark, we kind of had the Pokemon approach to booking, which was, I got to catch them all as things started to open back up, which was a really interesting thing to balance because I feel like I've had that approach to booking for a long time, but safety has never been a concern.

So those email chains of making sure like, okay, are there gonna be people there, how far away are they going to be? What are the requirements for them? Can they be seated? Can they, you know, are they in pods? Is there, there's just a lot to work out. So there was definitely that like lingering, I don't want to call it fear, but that lingering concern of are we doing the right thing? But also that lingering concern of like, well, I know this is something I need to do right now from me.

If this is something that other people need as well like and we can provide it, maybe we should. And I'm glad that we did not, we were so fortunate. We did not play a show throughout the whole thing where I left feeling like, uh, maybe that was a little too much for where we are at the time. And I think that says so much about our venue owners and the people who make shows happen. That safety definitely was a primary concern in a year where it would've been so easy to just focus on lost revenue.

And if we can pack, you know, well this room seats 100 and we can have 40 in it, let's sell the 60 and like we'll make it work. You know I didn't, I didn't see any of that which was which was so refreshing and so nice to see people looking out for one another and genuinely wanting to make music and performance happen over making the quickbooks which man everybody can use the quick buck these days. Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's with so many venues shutting down, it's been really ashamed to see and I think we've been really lucky that I don't know of any of the major venues in Vermont shutting down.

Higher ground still going strong nectars is still going strong. I'm sure there's some that have shut down some smaller ones but we've been so lucky that like if higher ground was gone, that will be it for Vermont music scene. Well they have their fingers in everything. Yeah, exactly. All our big concert series are presented by higher ground. You know, the Van jerry's Show Museum, They have that sweet new spot on Pine Street that's like an outdoor performance venue that just a satellite venue. They decided to pop up so people can enjoy outdoor music all summer.

And we're really lucky that we have creative folks behind those ventures and not again, not folks who are like for profit music lovers, their kind of music lover first and the profits that follow our bonus. Yeah, I mean that's, that's the one thing too, is like, it's a very community based area, just like your connection to claw. He's the talent buyer for Neckers, He plays music and works in the music industry. But first and foremost, he's a musician. A lot of fans have horror stories about talent buyers or promoters that just screw them over.

It's like, yeah, those are the guys that probably aren't actually musicians, they like music, but they like money and that's why they're doing it. You know, they're like, well, I don't want to work a day job, so I'll do this and it's tough to see that when people don't have that compassion and caring for artists and just in it to make the most money that they can. That's very frustrating for me. And, and like, I'm not even an artist who plays shows. I just know a lot about the industry and enjoy answering questions and that's why Bandhive exists because so many people ask me questions.

I'm like, okay, time for a podcast. Absolutely. Just potted out. If you need to know anything in the world. There's a white dude with a podcast about it. That's kind of where I'm, where I'm at. It's the millennial library. Oh, that is so true. I've never thought of that, but that is so true. Or a Youtube video. I was actually chatting with dan Bishop, our bass player last night about some vocal things, just like, like I want to make sure this, you know, that my voice is able to stand up for the next 10 years.

You know, it's like, I'm really good at making it through the next 10 gigs and he's like, yeah, like I would just recommend like this ear nose and throat specialist and they gave me this uh, these Youtube videos to watch. I'm like, Instead of referring you to a doctor, they referred you to these YouTube videos to watch. He's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, they knew I wasn't gonna pay them again to come back at least give me things that are going to help me. And so it's like, now I have all these video links.

It's like, Oh, I'm gonna do this instead of seeing a doctor. Like, I love 2021. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, looking ahead at June and July and I mean by the time this episode comes out, it'll be June 29, so will no longer be looking ahead. But we're recording it on June six And you've got what, like 30 shows in the next two months? There's a lot. Yeah, we're, I'm looking across the room at my calendar right now and the next my calendar has six weekends on it and we have Thursday Friday, sometimes twice Saturday and Sunday gigs every weekend.

I cannot remember the last time that that was a problem. I'm so blessed and it was kind of a mad rush as things open back up. I know I'm not super in tune to where things are and the rest of the country. I hope they're experiencing similar joys that we have here in Vermont as uh the light at the end of the tunnel grows bigger and bigger with this Covid thing, but the reopening phase kind of happened very quickly. I think everybody was kind of Governor scott had put this july 4th ish Kind of timeline on things and then our vaccination rates just went through the roof.

Man, we're closing in on 80% of total eligible population is vaccinated. And Phil Scott has said that outdoor venues not really a problem anymore, you know, kind of indoor venues, if you're vaccinated, not really a problem anymore. And as the science comes out, we've kind of had our thumb on the pulse of that. So there was kind of a mad rush for venues as these things started to open that they hadn't planned on booking music this year. You know, I think 90% of the venues we have on our calendar right now, it wasn't even on their radar heading into even april that they would, they would be able to open and have performance in some capacity 345 nights a week.

But that situation has changed so rapidly and I am so blessed for that because we're able to pick up, we're doing residencies that like some breweries like weird window, which has never done music before and they decided, hey, if it's safe, like we should try it. And I live right down the road and I love drinking beer and playing acoustic guitar and it's the perfect thing. But also those nectars and higher grounds and the more prominent established arthritis back. I wasn't sure that was kind of my uh I love arts, right, the vibe in our tribe is amazing, but that was kind of my fearful, like, you know, kind of ownership management in limbo, heading into it, like they were going through some big changes and then to slap a national pandemic on it, I was worried about it, but they're they're back up and man, they're serving food and they're they're partnering up with the four or five higher ground thing across the street and there's music inside of music outside and I think there's more opportunities for performance and I think a lot of people who maybe weren't interested in being in that business before have kind of got the bug because they've missed being able to go out and get it elsewhere.

So I think there will be more small venues I think, coming out of this than anything else from my experience so far. Yeah, absolutely, it's incredible that you've been able to book so many shows so quickly, That's more shows than a lot of D. I. Y. Artists playing a year. And I mean that's one thing you've always done is you're playing shows constantly, which is great, and other artists should take note of that and don't over saturate the market. But if you're in a rural area, like Vermont where towns are 2030 minutes apart, play every town, you can, you know, like, you're not gonna oversaturated cause a lot of people aren't gonna drive 20 to 30 minutes, but they'll drive 10 minutes, you know, they're like, okay, the restaurant in town is having this show, like I'll go see it, that's community, like people can't drive half an hour every night, but they'll drive 10 minutes like you said, Vermont so small that a lot of the venues we play are like 20 minutes away from each other, but you see a different group of people each time we just played First Republic brewing in the month of May, thursday night, same people every thursday, but we played down the road even at on tap, we don't see those people there, but they are dedicated to their thursday night show at First Republic.

So we kind of have a circuit within our circuit which is kind of cool because to someone, even a new England artist, let alone a national artists like Vermont is one stop and you hit Burlington and you kind of do it, but there's a thirst for creative things outside of Burlington. The detriment to that is I think that a lot of people who have that thirst aren't willing to put in the added effort or maybe just don't have the means to put in that added effort to get there.

And I think that was kind of a unique growth opportunity for us during the pandemic is when you slap a show up on facebook all of a sudden our college friends who haven't seen this play, you know, the ones who live in Wyoming and Washington state and you know, places that we don't go, those just aren't in our circuit now, maybe someday. But we were playing shows for them again, and we were getting that engagement and we were selling those t shirts and we were we were having those interactions again, I was getting those DM messages and, you know, for a time when things were so disconnected, these shows really were a way to connect with people in a way that we probably wouldn't have gotten to without Covid.

Yeah, absolutely. So with all the shows your booking now, and you mentioned earlier how you're asking questions about the safety and what kind of policies are in effect that venue. But are there other ways that booking shows has changed? But it's different now than it was before? The pandemic? Yeah, I think that, I mean, cancellation policy is a big one. I can't remember ever booking a show where in the primary email there, like if we cancel, we can't pay you, which I totally understand, you know? But I think last year we were one of those bands that had two separate 10 day tours booked and both of them got scrapped.

And, you know, we did what we can, I'm not looking to sit here and be like, we are the saints of traveling musicians, because we understand the hardships for venues as well. But we did what we could to not take money from folks who I needed that money as much as we did, you know, to stay open and we're going to still be a band at the end of this pandemic. If we make $0 through the pandemic, if this venue generates $0 they can't pay rent and they're not going to be open.

So we were very cognizant of that and try to be really realistic with that. But also, I think just the general courtesy, I think this goes back to, I think people are just so hungry to have human interaction again that everything is awesome. It's like the lego movie looking out there right now, like everything is awesome and we do have some obstacles to overcome as far as like recouping lost revenue. These businesses have been putting out all year and you've got to spend money to make money is that you know, the old mantra, but it's hard to spend money you don't have and music is one of those things that it's kind of a, there's a lot of gray area on what the price tag on these things are and you know, kind of like deciding what the worth is and what the wiggle room is.

So I think it's a little more ambiguous booking in these times, but I think that people are more excited about the bookings. Yeah, well, to pivot into the business side a little more and you referenced the lego movie, everything is awesome. And then the next line is, everything is cool when you're part of the team is uh, you seem to do all the business back end of The Fire Below yourself, is that correct? Yeah. I've been really lucky lately. That claw is a resource for us. He works for jam flow management, which is Twit ALs management company and he spent 11 years, I believe at the helm of talent buying connectors.

So I would still say that I take care of things primarily. I'm the voice reaching out. I'm doing this and that clause a nice little um, he's the mental, he's my Yoda. He's my booking Yoda. Now. He's like, ask for hospitality. Pretty food. Who doesn't love free food? Yeah, I'm like, that's genius. I was just going to play this gig for 200 bucks and then by $50 worth of Mcdonald's for everybody. But like, let's ask hospitality, you're right. Yeah. At the very least get a buyout. Right. A nice towel.

I really like having towels. Thank you. That's my, that's my Covid, uh, upgrade. That's how I treated myself during Covid was putting in our booking agreement that I'd really like to, it's become a joke amongst, this needs to be a rider and instead of no brown M and M's, you say one towel monogrammed, try millet and The Fire Below and just see how many venues still get the band name wrong. Yeah, Mom. So you have like six towels and all of them are the fire down below, except for the one venue who got it right?

And that is how, you know, if they're stage is safe and they paid attention. Absolutely. That's the David lee Roth thing, right? The green M and M's was like if they read this, then they definitely paid attention to all the other stuff going on. Yeah, exactly. That happened because they had one show in like a gymnasium at a college and their stage sank through the floor of the gym which was brand new Because they didn't read the weight requirements and that's why the Eminem's thing came about.

Exactly that if they read this, we know they read everything else. If we find a brown Eminem we check everything. So it wasn't that they were divas, it was literally a safety mechanism and safety is getting more and more important. This was back in the 70s and 80s and they were already thinking of that. People say they're divas and it's like, no, no, no, they weren't at all. They were looking out for people, they just didn't want their crew to die. That's like kind of a non diva thing.

Their crew, the audience, their gear, the band themselves, like all that. Yeah, I want to be able to continue to play eruption for years to come. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you saw this. It's probably probably two or three years ago now that the Foo Fighters Tour rider got released on the Internet and it's a coloring book. It's like an activity book. Kind of similar stuff that like Dave mentioned. He's like if we go there and someone took the time to even if they read through this and colored it and laughed and answered the questions the whole time, at least they know they took the time.

It like made it in front of someone's face and that's how we know. And in that same interview, he kind of explained, I didn't realize that like the Foo Fighters probably have more in common with like the Harlem Globetrotters or like W. W. E. Wrestling than any touring band because their tours are so massive and they operate so they have like multiple stages that criss crossed the country that like one is already set up when they get to the next set and they fly from place to place so that they can go home and like drive their kids to school.

It's the equivalent of like the Harlem Globetrotters having six different teams that are all the Harlem Globetrotters and they're playing in six cities every night as opposed to a band that that's their stuff up onto a bus and drives 300 miles through the night. It's just amazing to see that especially in such a single sculpture and in such a digital age where it's not even a joke. I think Olivia Rodrigo is amazing and I'm like still not convinced that anybody is going to care when she releases that next record.

But the Foo Fighters can still sell out 100,000 seat fields 100 times a year in the United States and they've been a band for 30 years and they still release records that top charts. They're not a novelty act. It's very bizarre almost considering the music climate of the mainstream industry, Foo Fighters are such a good case study to really dive into. At some point. We'll have to nerd out about that more. And then there's a day of girl stuff that just like he's involved in everything. He's like making movies.

He has like television series, he has books like this guy is just, he's the Gordon Ramsay of rock and roll. You can like watch this guy complain about anything anywhere and he just looks like the guy that if you saw him at rear as you'd want to walk over and like drinking. They're against it with Yeah. And even going back like a decade with them crooked vultures. That was amazing For those who don't know. That was a side project. Supergroup with josh from Queens of the Stone Age.

And john paul jones on bass. Yeah. Like what are the odds you get to play with john paul jones and Dave Groll was in Queens of the Stone Age for a little bit when Food Fighters released that. Yeah, he did the drums on the first record, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah. The Food Fighters were kind of going through that, like, extension, like, oh, are we going to be the biggest band in the world again, kind of vibe. And Dave just like, okay, I met this band that I really like, and I'm gonna go play drums with them and just like slept in the van and rode around with Queens of the Stone Age, even though he was in Nirvana.

And the Foo Fighters were literally the biggest rock and roll band in the world at the time. And he's just driving around in a van playing in Queens of the Stone Age. Like this music, I play drums loud. I'm going to do this the hardest anyone's ever played drums. I do that. Yeah, exactly. But keeping the dynamics and not bashing the symbols, so they just sound terrible. Right? Well, I think he can afford some pretty sweet equipment now, like those simple dampener are probably pretty serious. Yeah, well, man to get back to you and The Fire Below.

Since you do all the management yourself with some guidance from the claw, what tools and systems do you use to keep all of your communications via email and whatever platforms organized when it comes to booking shows. There's anything related to the band. Google sheets is probably my best friend in booking shows in just doing this. I have this really weird personality trait where I'm able to kind of compartmentalize and push everything aside and nothing is an issue and it's all a non issue. And then I'll get like, manic about organizing, like in one day and I'll do like six months worth of business and bookkeeping in like one afternoon.

Last week I sat down, I had one of those like, manic focus moments and I did a google spreadsheet with expenses and dates and updated the google calendars. So we're starting fresh in june, it's our halfway point and it's so nice with a nice empty google spreadsheet, but it's something that I wasn't always really good at. I kind of found not even that long ago, about a year or two ago, I guess everything feels like last year, but it was too, because Covid is just kind of the last year.

So what about 2019 when the band was really busy and I was also doing a lot of solo stuff and stuff with Dillon Dumbass on violin. I believe we played 160 shows in 2019, which is booking yourself, that's a lot. And I kind of got to the end of the year even, and didn't have a great idea about what I had spent or what I had made, and I was kind of like, okay, like, well, I know I played these shows and I got these W nines and I know I bought this guitar and I spent this much on the record, like I had the notebook jottings of that, but probably about september of 2019 was when I was like, I need a system and I need to know where I've been.

And it's also been really interesting to me because it's easy for me to not get so lost in the business side, because it's not what I'm super passionate about, even though I have to take a vested interest in it, but I've kind of used it as an opportunity to catalog what we've done and even keep track of like some set lists and like, oh, who did I play with, and who opened these shows? And I get more joy at the end of being like, yeah, man, it really sucked to calculate my mileage expense for 100 and 60 gigs, but like, it was pretty cool that I got to see that's like playing with my friend Andy James from the All Starz.

I played with him 16 times this year, like, you know, kind of so, so I kind of like do the little easter egg thing for myself to keep myself invested in my bookkeeping. But yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. It's just trying to keep things organized. There's so many communications and I'm really good about remembering what emails I've received and I can probably rattle off our dates through the end of the summer from you right now without, Without reading them. Like I just know it's like if you, someone's like, let's go get, let's go see a movie on June 25.

Like counting in 25th, I'm playing the B. C. A. Concert series on Church street from 1 to 3 and I'm gonna be busy. But you know, someone else needs to know that there needs to be other documentation. And with a band, it's really nice for them to be able to log on our google counter and be like, hey, I have a wedding this day and I'm not available as supposed to be taking a gig and then having to cancel which classic tremolo back in the day would be, hey, it's actually my mom's birthday when I agreed to play in Montreal for $3 and a strip club, free beer token.

So I'm actually probably going to have to not do, Oh man. Yeah, google sheets and google calendar are so powerful. I mean there's so many tools on top of that that can be used, but just having the basics in place, if that's what works is amazing. There's so many artists that don't even do that, they do what you did two years ago. That's impressive though, that for the amount of shows that you play that google sheets is doing it for you. That's really cool. Yeah. Well, so I think we could definitely be more in depth and I think we're getting to a place where coming out of this pandemic that we probably will have to, and it, you know, I'm one of those guys who I don't feel like I need control, but it's like, I am a do er so I'm like, oh, I'll just do it, it's not a big deal, I'll just, I'll just do it.

So to have someone to be like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to ask someone to do it, you know, like, I kind of like, I'm more tentative about asking someone to do something for me than to just be like, well, I'll figure out how to do it and I'll do it. The thing that's really been a blessing about any google program, and we were talking about this a little bit beforehand is just like how accessible it is. I can log on to my google sheets on my phone and put in that I had a $40 expense for this gig because I had to send my puppy to doggie daycare.

You know, whether that's something ultimately I get to write off or whatever. Well, that's for the C. P. A. Is to decide or whatever, just to know that that's an expense that I had. So it's like, oh, you know, we made and these are all arbitrary numbers, but we made 500 bucks say, right, it's like, well, okay, but we drove 200 miles. We stayed in a hotel. That was 100 bucks, said the dogs are getting grants for us. So it's like, ok, we actually netted. I had no idea. I could have sat down in 2019 and gone through a list of our shows and told you what I was paid at each show.

No problem. My brain just works like that. I can call back and be like, oh yeah, I had the gravy fries and they were really good and he paid me in a check for 300 bucks and his name was steve and you know, like I can, I have that, but I wasn't really good at like wrapping my head around. Oh, but I actually spent $400 to make this trip happen. That's been the biggest tool and all jokes aside, I will, I will rag on Ryan Clawson all night, but just making sure that the net makes sense.

And the music industry is really interesting. I've had this talk a lot because if you're a carpenter or you're a painter, there's some type of like raw good that at least gives you a benchmark for what your, what you should be charging. I have several guitars, all of them, well over $2,000 and I love them, they're my Children. But I don't really factor that into the cost of me playing because it's like, well, You know, I I these are mine and I have them and you know, you kind of have that level of like guilt for charging someone for that.

But if you're a carpenter building someone's deck like, Oh it's $600 worth of materials. And because I acquired the materials, it's a 1. 5% markup and then my time is worth $13 an hour or whatever, $30 an hour. And so your total is 1500 bucks and people can kind of wrap their heads around that and you pay a carpenter 1500 bucks if you asked for it because look at all this, it's right here, wood and nails and he charges $30 an hour. Where in in the music industry you really have to kind of like way opportunity versus compensation a lot, especially where we're at right now, like to drive to new york city and have the opportunity to play for this, this budding artist.

But knowing that you're gonna break even well does the opportunity outweigh the compensation? Yes. Often. Yes. But also, you know like I wish there was just some benchmark of like, oh this is the material good because I feel like people want that when they book and not so much this year. Like I said, I think people have been way more open to booking this year than ever before. But a lot of people you'll throw a number at and be like, oh you know, we have our rough costs, you know, within 50 miles of home which you know, here's our tears and if we know that you can throw a little extra, we'll ask for a little extra because people do that.

But we've gotten a response like, oh, that's a lot of money a lot. And I think it's because there's no solid item, good or expense necessarily that you can pinpoint. That's like this is what accounts for this much of it, even though they exist, there's hidden costs of music. We were talking about P. A. Systems. It's like if you have a nice P. A system that will feed a field with 200 people in it for a six piece band, you have three grand invested in that. Yeah, minimum.

And that's not even Yeah. And that's not even accounting for replacement cables, which XLR cables you heard it here first are the most deceiving costs in the music industry. You can buy like $100 XLR cable. I don't understand, they're the most deceiving costs in the industry. You heard it here? This is where I say make your own make your own XLR. Yeah, it's so worth it. Do you make your own Excel ours? I have, I don't anymore because I have plenty at this point, but it's so worth it.

If you know how to sauder you can do it. It's super easy. And then the benefit is if it breaks, you're like, oh, I know how to fix this because I made it just unsought. Er it snip off the end, strip the wires and sewed it back on and it's like, okay now, instead of a 20 ft cable, I have a 19 ft six inch cable. Big deal. That's still close enough. I am the guy who stretches are 15 footers though, that like that cable needs to go 16, but we're going 15, it's like hanging a little bit off the ground.

I'm really bad about that and that's why they break. Oh man. Well, on that note of you have a very uh jovial personality and that carries over to when you're on stage as well, when you're performing. There's lots of banter. It seems like it comes extremely naturally to you. And so my question is, have you always been that way or is that something that you consciously learned to do? And now that's just you've become that. So I'm actually, my name is not even Troy, that's all a total act.

No. Uh yeah, that's just kind of, it's funny because when I started playing, I was so self conscious about my voice, about my guitar playing That I would get really nervous and I have never had a phobia or fear of talking in front of a crowd. I feel like I can kind of win the people over with that. So that's kind of how I began. Is that when I would go play these solo shows, I would start the set with 10 minutes of talking just so I could get my hands to stop shaking long enough to play the song.

And it just kind of developed into kind of what people would expect in the natural progression of the show, to tell the story behind the song, or tell this antidote about getting to the show and to kind of work through the show. And it also really is a nice time failure when you first are starting out and, you know, 20 songs and you're getting bookings that want you to play for four hours. And it's like, it takes a lot when, you know, six chords. It takes a lot to stretch 20 songs into four hours.

But you also aren't in a place to say no. So it just kind of became that the show's developed into feeling like you were sitting in my living room and we were passing a guitar around and that's what the show was. And it's been a really interesting development to see that kind of carry over into the full band show where things are a little more polished and it's like, we have this set and it's less talking and we're moving through, but like, people still kind of want that aspect.

They want to feel like they're part of the story, a part of the joke before you you go into the song and I think there's a lot of room for that music. We try not to take ourselves too seriously, even though our song subject matter sometimes leans towards the heavier emotional side, but then it's not unlikely to pause in the middle of song and point out some one's hilarious t shirt in the crowd. I took a lot from performers. Like these are two opposite sides of the spectrum, but from Jaret Reddick from Bowling for soup, his on stage kind of persona or energy and Matt Nathanson, I saw Matt Nathanson when I was in college and I've been doing the solo show.

The jokey thing was like a part of it, but it was kind of off the cuff and you know, sometimes the bits were a little planned out just because I felt like now there's an expectation for me to like say something funny here and I saw matt Nathanson and just just his aura made people comfortable and the stories, even if the punch line will have this big like a plus pay off, like the chuckle was good enough. So, it kind of allows me to be like, oh, I can just talk to people and people are interested in just talking and hearing what I have to say and like the casual chuckles enough that has stuck with me that I want to be the same person standing up there, that when I walk off to the side and go to the bar that you can walk up to it and talk to and it's going to be that same interaction.

Yeah, I think that's amazing. And the reason I ask is it's so important for an artist to connect with their fans. Having great music is the first step of that, but for the artists who go up say hi, we're so and so and they play an entire set without saying anything, like, thanks so much. There's our merch table. See ya? It's like, what did you do to create a personal connection with that audience tonight? You did nothing. They might have loved the show, but they're not going to leave thinking, wow, there are actual human beings in that band, you're not going to grow your fan base nearly as quickly doing that.

Then like, you know, if Troy, you're singling somebody out for their shirt, That's funny, they're gonna be like, oh my God, Troy Millette thinks I'm cool. What they're going to be a fan of your music if they were dragged to the show by a friend, like, I don't like music, I don't want to go now. They're like, hey, that's from me. Like guys pretty cool, like I'm going to listen to his stuff, right, we're lucky here in Vermont that are small, venue is real small. I remember playing kickball with New Found Glory in high school that they were playing kickball by the van and the ball rolled over and my friend threw it back and they're like, do you want to play?

And we played kickball in New Found Glory and you know, things like that, So we've been really fortunate to open some bigger shows for Rick Springfield and Grace potter and kind of Crows live and I just want to be the guy that you, you want to come over and chat to twin atlantic, I don't know if you're familiar with that band, their songs are amazing, but they told a story about how they accidentally left their drummer at a rest stop the night before and they were just rousing them about it the whole show and it's like I feel like I'm in that band, you know, and I feel like I'm a part of that and next thing, you know, I'm leaving with the T shirt in the cd and people who go see live music, whether they admit it to you or even recognize it, are looking for some form of togetherness and for me, it's really easy to be a vessel for that.

Like, turn to the person next to you and like sing this chorus as logic can. And then to put the joke is like, it's dark in here. No one cares if it's horrible, you know, just the off cuff. That's the reality of the situation. That's what you would do if someone was in your basement at a jam session. And I think it has paid off in a lot of ways, for I pride ourselves, we've been told a couple of times and I won't go through, but that we are the easiest band in town to deal with.

That's a badge of honor. There's that part that's like we could ask for a little more then, but it's nice to know that they're going to hire us for a job. We're gonna roll in, we're gonna be pleasant to be around and we're going to do exactly what they've hired us for and we're going to roll out and everybody's gonna have a great time. Some of my favorite musicians as well have not been, do not have that reputation even here in town. People that I love. And I'm like, oh, these are my favorite people to be around when you play a show with them.

You're just like, man, like was it really worth the sound check around 30 minutes late and you almost put a hold on the whole show. Like I spend 30 minutes doing way more ridiculous things than waiting for someone to be ready with their monitor mix, you know? Yeah, I mean, ultimately, that's when it comes down to The show must go on and the artists who realize that great and then you have artists like Morrissey, it's like it's 59° and I needed to be at least 62 or I'm not going to play an outdoor show.

It's like, dude, you already cancel half your shows. This is just making your reputation worse. We had a show with the band, the ghost of paul, revere their big folk band. They got the opportunity to play Conan like the Conan O brien show and they were flying back into boston or something like that, driving down to play the higher ground show. And it was a disaster of a storm disaster. And we got there like three o'clock. Course we're all local goes too far. We're supposed to be at 3 30 sound check that we were supposed to be able to start subject by 5 30 for doors at 6 30 shows seven at six o'clock that goes to power here just rolled in.

Yeah, and tensions were high and whatever. And this may be an intern. Maybe not someone I haven't seen a higher ground before kind of rolls in and knocks on the dressing room door. He's like, hey man, he's like, they want me to come up and tell you that we're not gonna have time to do a sound check tonight. I could just tell he was so nervous and I'm like, yeah, that's cool, no worries. He's like, you're sure, I'm like like, yeah man, I was like, nothing you can do about it.

Like you can't control the weather, man. Like a quick line check will be fine, even though in my head I'm like, are you serious? I've been sitting here for three hours and we're not going to, But well, what good does that putting that energy out there before it doesn't make our show any better. We're not getting the sound check, you know? So like, why make a harder day for someone who's already having a hard day and like doing everything they can to make this show happen. Like if the folks in paul revere could have been there at 4 30 I know they would have been there at 4 30 that's okay, things happen and, you know, I think that there's an element of things happen that's easy for people to forget, especially when you're playing 100 and 60 shows a year and you want to roll in and you want to set up this same set and you want to do it.

These are what XLR cables. I roll out to these speakers and this is where I put these speakers and this is where my reverb is and and that's just not a sustainable way to go about things and I've learned a lot about that just by making the joke and going whether even if it's earth shattering in my chest and if you fake it enough times, you kind of adopt that personality where it takes a lot to rattle me before I show now. It really does. There's nothing that's surprising and I know that like we can make lemonade out of lemons given almost any situation I gotta ask is part of that come from the fact that you have so many different versions of your stage show.

Like you have your solo stuff, you have, you're trying Latin, Dylan Gammas, you have The Fire Below. You have some trio shows I think. Like is that always in the back of your mind? Like, hey, you know, if we can't have a drummer because there's no sound check and there's no line check and there's no room on the stage for drums because the headliner brought all this gear that wasn't advanced. Like we can do this solo acoustic show. Like is that a relief to you? To keep in mind that you can just change it up?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that we have a good crew. I have a good crew of friends and musicians that like the confidence level is high rolling into a show. I'm the weak link, 90% of the time when we roll into something and it goes back to The Fire Below. Kind of the vision was to begin with this plug and play. Like you need an acoustic trio. We can do that. Oh, you want to do it, We can do that. You know, just like the Pokemon booking method, right?

But it's really been a blessing to have so many options like you said because of that. And it's also allows for us to expand. We get to milk a really small circuit, which we also talked about earlier. So out of the 75 people who might come out to a taproom gig, like, you know, 14, 1 of those breweries, how do you get 25 of them? Who are going to come to the next one even though they just saw this one? Well, they saw Dylan and I play, but they haven't seen the full band play or oh, well you just saw the full band and if you like that, like we're doing this bluegrass trio, it's gonna be the same songs, but the bluegrass versions, you know, they're full versions.

And it's kind of opened up a lot of booking opportunities too because when you go and book that one gig and like yeah, we'll pay you 800 bucks for the full band, you like, Well that's great. But like I see that you don't have music on Tuesdays and like for 400 bucks, you know, the trio will come, it will be the same kind of stuff, but it'll just be like acoustic and it'll be low key and you know, you can get it kind of allows you to market and pitch and sell yourself and also higher ground like, oh yeah, we really want an acoustic opener, I can do that.

Well this is a rock, man, we really need something a little more energy. We got that, we got that for you, you know? So it's definitely it comes down to ego. I think that I really just felt like I wanted to be involved in any opportunity I could be involved in. Well, I think that's amazing too, because so many artists are focused on their sound and I got to say, the caveat here is that you play music that is very versatile. It's not like you're in a metal band where this is your sound and you're going to take this song filled with screaming and make it bluegrass, like that's not what you do.

That would be I think a lot more difficult, but for I don't even know how to describe it. Like I guess folk rock would be a good all encompassing title for you. You can change that up and turn it into a bluegrass song. You could probably turn it into a metal song if you wanted to. It would take more work. But it's possible where is going the other way from metal to folk rock might not be as easy because a lot of times and I love metal.

So for those listening, this is nothing against metal. The arrangement is just so different. And you're like, yeah, it sounds great with all this distortion, but drop D and open first, fret on an acoustic guitar is not the best sound ever. Well, I think that's why those like Vh one storytellers and like MTV unplugged back in the nineties when it was about how loud you can make an amplifier and how to storm you can make that sound. And then you get Nirvana and Pearl Jam sitting down on stools, you're like, holy shit, The lyrics to the songs, and the melodies that exist under that distortion effect are incredible.

And I think that we've been lucky, we just kind of stumbled into it. I love writing, I was an english major, I always loved riding through school and you know, it's very therapeutic for me. So I think the lyrics in the songs are kind of the heart of what we do, no matter the incarnation. So I think if we can stay true to the essence and the melodies of these songs, then it's a treat if you get the rift to run away on a banjo or on a fiddle or on a on a Les paul, you know, and the lyrics gonna hit and the you know, the sentiment's gonna hit.

It's a very claw always uh rags on me. He's like, man, you can just sing your voice out because it's like bob Dylan, no one cares how he sounds, it's about what he's saying, but that's really my approach to writing new material is I want the lyric, I want the message, I wanted to tell the exact story, I want to say it and there's people who sing circles around me and I'm in all of them Isaac french Mark daly from Adela. There's just so many people in town who are these amazing vocalist.

I don't even get me started on like Nicole nelson from Dwight Nicole and kept right. There's just so many people in town who are amazing musicians and amazing vocalist. But I think that we have a really unique ability to story tell and I think it's really interesting to be able to tell the same story so many ways with these different arrangements. Yeah man, that's a really cool way to look at it. Having seen some of your performances, both live streams and in person. Pretty pandemic. The way you tell the stories before you tell the stories by playing the song.

It's like a preface to a book. You say, this is what the song's about. And then you actually tell the story by singing the song. And I never even thought of that with a different arrangements being a different way to tell the story. That's such a cool way to look at it. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there is something to be said for like, creative burnout. I think we hear a lot about it in the industry, from folks like the foo fighters who criss cross the country and play 100 nights in a row or whatever.

And that's like, you're allowed to like bitch about being famous and you know, doing the thing, but you don't talk about the folks like myself or like Cynthia Carbone who plays literally 300 shows a year. That guy is insane. For me. It keeps it fresh. I don't know how many times I could play ghosts of what we used to be as a full band arrangement with the organ sounds in the back and in good faith stand up every night. Like I still really like that song, but I really love strumming that song and hearing Dylan play this very like countrified fiddle fill in the middle of it.

It's like, oh, that was fun for me to let him have that interlude and I was ready to sing that third verse. I was excited to sing that third verse coming out of that solo. So I think for me it's like, it's the paddles on, I'm still excited about what we do every day and I hope that doesn't go away. That's awesome. Well, I think that's a great point to wrap things up because it's such a positive note. So two more questions. The first one is aside from the shows you've got this month and next month, what are your plans for 20, and beyond?

We are kind of in the very, very much planning stages of making things happen to record this new record. We've already got some bits and pieces started that we're really excited with. We worked with Chris, Hawthorne at Studio 150 on the stuff we have right now and just kind of deciding whether we're gonna try to put this full band in a room and like record something that's a little more of a full band energy as opposed to these little folk pop kind of thinks, but we definitely want to get those four tracks out with chris if nothing else.

And then we are booking shows like crazy through the end of the year we have some bigger plays that I don't think I'm going to talk about yet, but on the horizon that I'm really excited to announce and hopefully heading into 2022 with people fully vax and fully safe and the comfort levels rising. I think that's the obstacle right now for folks is, and I'm one of them as well, like my comfort level for events like this various on the day, you know, just uh there's so much news out there and there's so much unknown still, but I think we're in a really good spot.

So I think we're just gonna continue to hit hard and continue to sling t shirts and continue to play a whole lot of folk music awesome. Well I'm really looking forward to hearing the E. P. Or album, whatever it turns out to be when that drops. And uh looking forward to seeing some shows as well. So best of luck with that. Thank you again for joining us. And then last question man is, where can people learn more about you and your music? Yeah. The best spot to do that is troymilletemusic dot com.

There's links to our facebook page. We have twitter instagram, all that. I do have a Tiktok, but I haven't started using it. Maybe that'll be my next 2021 goal. There might be some interesting stuff out there. I don't know. Maybe that's today's project. James may be inspired me with this last question. Yeah. I feel like you could have some very entertaining tech talks just for the folks listening in audio. Anything, Try mentioned other artists. Trois music and the website. Of course, the venues we talked about all that will be in the show notes at Bandhive got rocks slash 83.

So if you want to go there, you can find the links to everything we've talked about and discussed. All that stuff will be in there. That's a Bandhive dot rocks slash 83. Dude, thanks again so much for taking the time out of your sunday morning to chat and come on the podcast. I appreciate it. Absolutely. This was great. Let's do it again. Maybe one this record floating around. Sounds like a plan. Thanks man, awesome cuz mhm. Mhm. Mhm mm. That does it for this episode of the Bandhive podcast.

Thanks so much for tuning in and listening. And of course, big thank you to trim a lot of trouble it. And The Fire Below for joining us on this episode. What a great chat. Such a funny guy to listen to. Just everything he says makes so much sense. And the humor that he brings to the table is great as well. And he does the same thing for his live shows as I mentioned in the interview. So super cool to learn from him about how he runs his business because he books so many shows.

If you want to book more shows, I highly encourage you to do what Troy does embrace the pile of madness, embrace the emails, all that stuff and just go with the flow. If people like working with you, they will want to book you over that other band who might have the same crowd. But yeah, it's not so great to work with. So please learn from Troy's personality and his systems and just be a good easy to work with a person who embraces the flood of emails. One of the things about being easy to work with is being part of a community.

The community can get together and help each other share advice, opinions, feedback, all that kind of stuff and that's what we have in the band. I've community on facebook. So if you'd like to be in the Bandhive community, please feel free to join us. Just head on over to Bandhive dot rocks slash group and that will automatically redirect you or you can do it the old fashioned way and search for banned Hive in your facebook app, that's B A N D H I V E one word and join the group.

We look forward to seeing you there and having you share your knowledge, ask questions, whatever it comes naturally to you, even if that's just silently reading what other people are posting, we'll be back with another brand new episode next Tuesday at six a.m. Right here in your favorite podcasting app. If you haven't subscribed yet, please make sure to do that. And if you are an apple podcasts or itunes, if you could take 20 to 30 seconds to leave a rating and review for us, that would be so appreciated.

It's really important to getting the podcast out there for more people to learn about running their band as a business. Like I said, we'll be back next week. Until then, I hope you have an awesome week. Stay safe and of course, as always, keep rockin.