[00:00:00] James: welcome to episode 166 of the Bandhive Podcast.

[00:00:05] James: It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. Today I'm here with Matt Hoos of Alive in Barcelona. How are you doing today,

[00:00:14] Matt: James. I'm doing fantastic. It is another cool day here in Denver, Colorado. And uh, a little bit overcast this morning, which is kind of nice. Every once in a while I like those slightly gloomy days, so it's gonna be exciting to have uh, little bit more of a, of a homey comforty. Wrap myself up in a blanket kind of day, after recording a podcast.

[00:00:35] Matt: Of course. How's everything over there on the east?

[00:00:37] James: first of all. That's great to hear. I love a gloomy day as well. That reminds me of Germany in the best of ways, and things are great here. We have a nice, clear, crisp day. It is a brisk eight degrees outside. I already had to go to the post office. and it was five degrees when I left the house, so that was nice.

[00:00:55] James: This is in Fahrenheit for all you people who use the proper measurement [00:01:00] system of Celsius and Metric, but because we live in the States, we're using Fahrenheit, which makes absolutely zero sense because 32 is the point of freezing. So yeah, it's a beautiful, clear day. And speaking of Germany, actually, this episode comes out on January 31st a week and a half after this episode airs, I'm gonna be on my way back to Germany for my, uh, yearly family visit, and I'm stoked for that. And then we're recording this January 11th. Two months from today, I will be in LA seeing AFI play, sing the Sorrow in Full. So I am obviously stoked about that.

[00:01:34] James: in case you haven't noticed in the last 165 episodes before this one, I'm a pretty big AFI fan. Not as big as I used to be, but enough that they're still mentioned in probably about half our episodes. And I have a set of Adam Carson drumsticks from their 2017 album that he used on one of the songs hanging up here that Adam gave to me personally.

[00:01:52] James: So you could say I, I've been in the AFI world for quite some time, so I'm excited for that show

[00:01:58] Matt: James

[00:01:58] Matt: has a fire inside

[00:01:59] James: [00:02:00] Yes, I have AFI for afi. their bus caught on fire a few years ago. They were definitely AFI jokes

[00:02:06] James: being made they had it pretty bad though.

[00:02:08] James: Like they had to switch buses and stuff, like it got messed

[00:02:11] James: up.

[00:02:12] James: when my bus caught fire on Warp Tour, we were okay. we got the bus back the next day. I don't know if that bus was a goner. if they ever used it again or what, but it was definitely not the next day by the looks of the smoke billowing out of the sides of the bus. Anyway, that's my February and March. And then in May I'm probably gonna be going to London for a music conference. So the first six months of the year are gonna be quite busy and I am stoked for That

[00:02:39] James: if anyone's going to sing the sorrow in LA let me know. If anyone is in London, let me know.

[00:02:45] James: Or if anyone is in the Vean area of Germany, which is uh, specifically near Bo, let me know cuz I'm gonna be there too. So, yeah, lots of travel coming up and I'm stoked for that. And just in general a great [00:03:00] start to the new year and even though it's been a month since we last actually talked face to face, Matt, because I got the RONA and then our power went out and all that.

[00:03:07] James: Which if you've listened to last few episodes, you know about these cuz I mentioned them. It's good to have you back. It's good to be back doing a full episode and next week or maybe in two weeks in podcast time, we have a really cool guest that I'm stoked for. So overall Matt, I'm doing great cuz this year is shaping up to be amazing.

[00:03:26] Matt: Good man. That's exactly what I love to hear. We always like good news. Good news is always welcome.

[00:03:30] James: Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Which on that side note, if you have good news about your band, feel free to join our Facebook community. You can search Bandhive on Facebook, go to the group and let us know the good news about your band. Or you can also go to better band slash group. That's a URL you put in your browser, better band slash group.

[00:03:51] James: And that will take you to the Facebook group automatically. a, a quick little shortcut there and we'd love to hear what you're doing in your business what you're working on, or [00:04:00] just if you have questions, feel free to reach out to us there. That's one of the best ways to get an answer and hear from the community as well.

[00:04:06] James: Cause typically when somebody posts a question, there's gonna be at least two or three other people in the community who answer with their experience and their opinions, which I think is a really good way to. Multiple people's opinions rather than just one. Because even though we're the experts, that doesn't mean we're always right.

[00:04:23] James: If any expert says they're always right, they're not actually an expert. They're a dumb ass with

[00:04:27] James: an

[00:04:28] James: ego.

[00:04:28] Matt: a fool.

[00:04:29] James: You said it a little more nicely than I did. A little more politely

[00:04:32] Matt: Well, you know, it doesn't matter what you believe, but I believe pride comes before a fall. Pretty much applies to everyone.

[00:04:40] James: if that's not a band name, it should

[00:04:43] James: be like a 2006 metal core band. Pride comes

[00:04:46] James: before? fall.

[00:04:47] Matt: Pride before the fall? Yes. Oh, love just Merle actually sounds, yeah, it sounds like a, like a, August burns red with pride before the fall and under oath

[00:04:58] James: [00:05:00] Doing that radio announcer voice.

[00:05:02] Matt: So, Sunday. Sunday

[00:05:07] Matt: that'd be great. I can see it on all radio.

[00:05:09] James: Oh yeah, absolutely. Nationwide Death metal advertising on the pop radio

[00:05:13] James: station.

[00:05:13] Matt: and it would be huge as long as they didn't spread themselves too thin.

[00:05:18] James: That is very true, which is actually unfortunately something that most people do in their life. People spread themselves too thin all the time. And that's what we're gonna talk about this week on the Ban Hi podcast, because I was spread thin this past month with having covid not having electricity for six days, the holidays, it all was right around that same time.

[00:05:39] James: So instead of spreading myself thin, I said to Matt, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna do some solo episodes and we'll take a break because that way I can knock it out in, you know, 15 minutes instead of an hour or an hour and a half. And that way we can keep the podcast going rather than not having any episodes at all. It's great to have you back, Matt, cuz it's a lot more fun to do episodes [00:06:00] with you. But also if you spread yourself thin, things fall apart. I'm not gonna say it's been easy doing a podcast for over three years, 166 episodes in it has not been easy. But having systems in place and knowing when it's time to take a break, at least from recording because the podcast hasn't taken a break.

[00:06:21] James: If you're a listener, you know, every single Tuesday for the past three years and one month we've released episodes. But that doesn't mean we haven't taken breaks behind the scenes. There have been times where I didn't record an episode for two or three weeks. Matt, you took a break for like six

[00:06:35] James: months. If you hadn't, your life probably would've been a lot more

[00:06:39] James: stressful. so there are a lot of ways that you can spread yourself too thin in life and in music. Matt, do you want to go through some of those

[00:06:45] James: ways?

[00:06:45] Matt: spreading yourself too thin is probably one of the most detrimental things that you can do because it has a cascading effect once you start to snowball on the first thing. that's when each and everything subsequently starts to fail as well.[00:07:00] generally speaking, you have a hierarchy, for things that like, need to be taken care of.

[00:07:05] Matt: band is your business that is a very, very, very important, priority. However, if you're not eating food at home. You, you don't have enough money to eat. That's something that takes precedence over how your business. , essentially you have to have your ducks in a row at home, in your personal life.

[00:07:20] Matt: You know, you gotta make sure your finances are being met and things like that. like you were saying, there's a litany of ways that you can spread yourself too thin. let's say you're going out on tour you're playing seven shows a week. Some of you guitarists and some of you basses and semi bassists, and some drummers even might be able to maintain. However, a singer cannot play seven shows a week if they can. You end up running into a Sam Smith situation where you blow out your. And you have to cancel the rest of the tour and you leave a really bad taste in a bunch of your fans' mouths. You can simply have poor routing on the tour. So maybe you're only playing three to five shows a week, but the drives are so astronomically long that that's just as physically deteriorating and exhausting [00:08:00] as playing a show every night.

[00:08:01] Matt: You know, if you're driving from Portland to St. Louis, for shows, even if you have a day in between, that's still eight hours of driving each day,

[00:08:09] James: And we speak from experience on that.

[00:08:11] Matt: yeah, that's a horror story. Yeah, so poor routing, long drives just because you're allotted 45 minutes or an hour of set time does not mean that you have to push it to that. if you deliver an outstanding performance that's 35 minutes, it's better for you to focus on delivering that outstanding performance than it is for you to figure out how to cram another two songs in to make it 45.

[00:08:33] Matt: That's going to leave a poor taste in people's mouth. Again, you wanna put your best foot forward and you wanna leave everybody with a lasting impression, and you don't want that lasting impression to be a poor one. So you know, if you have a 45 minute set, then you need to be able to at least play for like an. mentally and, and physically. You need to be able to do that. But don't be afraid to play 35 minutes if that is going to deliver something so much stronger. I still remember hearing Maddie Mullens say to me, I don't know what I'm gonna do when we start headlining.

[00:08:59] Matt: [00:09:00] because he did all of the singing and all of the screaming in his band. And after he hit about 30 minutes, his voice would just start to give out and it would really, really, suffer. And when they're getting to a headlining slot, you're paying 45 minutes to an hour or longer.

[00:09:12] Matt: that was actually something that was constantly on his mind. And so he, he actually practiced a whole bunch for it. And, and then it got to the point where they were headlining and they still were able to, to deliver quite well. there's practice, there's preparation, there's things like that.

[00:09:24] Matt: Long sets can be hard. Don't be afraid to cut it down. If you're best at 35 minutes, e. Either figure out a way to, span five more minutes in talking in between your songs or, you know, maybe take some time to create some interludes so that you can have some music playing in between songs so you can catch your breath, things like that.

[00:09:40] Matt: Slipknot between every single song has like a two and a half minute interlude because all those guys are like 60 years. And after every song they have to go side stage and they, they actually bring an oxygen bar with them on tour they go over to side stage and they take hits off their oxygen bar, which helps them going from climate to climate, altitude to altitude.

[00:09:58] Matt: because they're old and want to maintain, [00:10:00] a good, healthy uh, tour. and they do that so that they can leave a good lasting impression in their fans' mind. Not making enough money. If you're not making enough money on tour, you are running an unsustainable business. If you run an unsustainable business for too long, that is the equivalent of getting in a hamster wheel and running and running, and running, and running and running. and eventually you get to the point where you have no energy left, you have nowhere to run, and you have no idea what to do.

[00:10:25] Matt: And this just results in nothing. Burnout. the, it's the killer of joy. hopefully you're in this business and in this industry because it brings you joy and love and you enjoy.

[00:10:35] Matt: passing your message along to other people, potentially helping other people, or, maybe it's just the social aspect. No matter what, you need to still be able to reach the joy is sparked in your life from your music. And by running too hard, not making enough money, that's gonna put you right down that hole if you're not organized at home.

[00:10:53] Matt: this is gonna divert your attention. If you leave a family behind and they don't have[00:11:00] the resources or tools at their disposal that's gonna allow for them to thrive, there is nothing that's going to affect somebody as strong as your loved ones suffering. when your loved ones are suffering, you cannot be on tour.

[00:11:13] Matt: it does not work. And so you need to make sure that you can do everything in your power to make sure your loved ones are. taken care of that things are prepared at home. All your ducks are in a row, and of course, you're always going to run into wrenches in your gears along the way, but the adaptability that you need to have and the foresight that you need to have in order to put as many systems in place so that way when hits the fan, you have the ability to be fluid and adapt and roll with the punches and, be there for your loved ones and take the necessary.

[00:11:42] Matt: prerequisites in order to uh, straighten out your life. No routine. If you don't have a routine when you're on the road, it can be very, very difficult. it's important for people to get consistent amount of sleep. It's important for people to go to bed at a comparable time each night.

[00:11:53] Matt: It's important for people to wake up at a comparable time each day. All of these things are integral to [00:12:00] just success. a great book is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. and routine is a very, very important one of these consistency just across the board. if you're the type of person who needs to go and work out in the morning, Then you need to have enough foresight to plan the night before that you need to know, I want to drive X amount of hours or X amount of miles to get to a Planet Fitness where I can work out in the morning.

[00:12:23] Matt: Because if I don't, my mood's gonna be terrible the whole next day, or I'm not gonna have energy or I'm driving from. Las Vegas to Denver. So, and I'm gonna be playing at a mile high elevation, so that's gonna make things harder. You need to have the consistency in your life so that way those variables that you cannot have any effect on don't affect you so much to the point where you're incapacitated.

[00:12:44] Matt: And then the last big one is partying. A lot of people join the music industry because they like the social aspect. There's a lot of partying that happens. And there's a balance between social interactions and rest. Yes, sometimes there might be a totally awesome party to go to. Yes, maybe sometimes there are [00:13:00] tons of people who want to hang out with you, and it's okay for you to turn to those people and say, Hey guys, I'm exhausted and I need to go get some rest.

[00:13:07] Matt: Or, Hey guys, I need to spend some time on the phone with my loved ones because they're feeling exhausted and they need rest, or they need affirmation, or they just need to talk on the phone with me. my guitarist. The most inspiring person in the world when it comes to, you maintaining a good, healthy level of contact with his loved ones.

[00:13:24] Matt: it's very common to see him walking around outside of the venues that we're playing at, talking on the phone with either his wife or his parents or, you know, or his sister one of the many people whom he really, really loves and is invested in their lives. And consequently, that allows for him to come out on tour for long periods of time.

[00:13:39] Matt: These are things that keep the anxiety at bay. these negative effects that kind of, rip you at your core.

[00:13:46] Matt: the nature of being a touring musician is that you kind of live multiple lives. You have your home life where you have your regular job and you still have to have that routine so that you can find time to practice, find time to write songs, find time. market your music, to look [00:14:00] up producers, to listen to music, to find inspiration.

[00:14:02] Matt: All of these things are, very necessary. at home, your work routine is, the normal consistent things that you, don't have to change, and then you have to be adaptable in your music life. Well, when you're on the road. You can have consistent things like, you know, waking up at the same time each day and, going to the gym or eating consistent foods.

[00:14:19] Matt: And then the changing variables are where you're at, what the altitude is, what the climate is, who you're playing with. what time the show starts. whether or not the promoter's gonna suck or not. Those things you have no control over. and unfortunately, there's nothing you can do other than roll with the punch.

[00:14:35] Matt: If your band mates don't know kind of where you're at, mentally and physically, if they don't understand what your routine needs to look like in order for you to thrive, then end result is only spreading yourself too thin. And before you know it, you find yourself as the hamster on the wheel running so fast and so hard that you don't know how to get off, the emotion builds up and then all of a sudden you find yourself.

[00:14:56] Matt: Three quarters of the way through a tour, and you're saying, I'm done with music. I hate [00:15:00] music, I hate everyone. I hate my band mates. I wanna go home. I'm miserable. my kids are suffering, my bills aren't being met, my nutritional needs aren't being met, There's all sorts of things and so If you find a simple core that you can adhere to and say like, this is what I need, and then you find a little bit of fluidity around that core, that's gonna set you up for success.

[00:15:22] James: Yeah, absolutely. And there are so many potential negative effects that can come from spreading yourself too thin. Now we can't even list them all. You just listed a bunch there, Matt, as well as what can cause being spread thin. But just to go over some of 'em again, So let's say you're out on the road and all of a sudden you feel like you just can't handle it anymore.

[00:15:45] James: That might be a sign that you're overwhelmed. it could be a sign for other things. But one of the things that might be happening is that you're overwhelmed with everything that's going on. You could be incredibly stressed, which I'm not gonna lie, any tour is gonna be stressful to some extent.

[00:15:58] James: The less stress the [00:16:00] better. So don't spread yourself too thin. You could be riddled with anxiety. Anxiety is something that a lot of musicians struggle with, and to an extent, a small amount of anxiety is normal and healthy. that is what keeps us alive. we say, Hey, this is risky. Let's not do it.

[00:16:15] James: That's normal. But if it becomes a problem and causes you not to be able to function, yeah, maybe you spread yourself too thin and now you are giving yourself more anxiety, Maybe you feel like, oh, I can't do this. why am I doing this? I'm not worth it. I can't handle this tour release, whatever it is.

[00:16:32] James: Maybe take a break. Maybe you spread yourself too thin. It could even get to the point that fans notice your interactions with them have become affected by something. Maybe they have interacted with you before and they realize you're just having an off night. Maybe it's the first time you met them and they feel terrible because you were rude to them.

[00:16:49] James: even if you didn't intend to do that, you could lose fans by not having a proper interaction with them. A couple episodes ago, I can't remember the number But Matt, you and I both [00:17:00] shared stories, very different stories about taking back Sunday.

[00:17:03] James: You had a great experience with Adam Lazara. You didn't even notice it was a bad experience at first. it wasn't one to you, but then he came up a few days later and apologized to you, which you were ecstatic about. And then later at the end of the tour, He even ran after you to say goodbye. I had the exact opposite experience with John from taking back Sunday, where I just felt, not disrespected, but kind of like, Hey, something's going on.

[00:17:27] James: He wasn't into it and it didn't make me appreciate his band anymore. I had never been a huge fan, but I wanted to do the interview. If it had been a great interview, I probably would've ended up being a fan, but because of that, I'm not a fan of theirs. I like Louder now. I love Louder now. Great album.

[00:17:42] James: I'm a Fred Match Reno fan. I was into terrible things before I was into taking back Sunday. I'll be real about that. but I'm not a big taking back Sunday fan. That same night I met the used and I did an interview with Quinn, the former guitarist of the used same deal. I wasn't a huge fan, but I wanted to do the interview.

[00:17:59] James: Well, guess [00:18:00] what? That was an amazing interview. Quinn took time and effort into answering these questions. It went way longer than it was supposed to be. big fan of the used. Now, taking back Sunday could have had another fan, but they ruined it. The used could have had another fan and they did it right. I ended up seeing these two more times, like I saw them every year for three years after that. Basically, it could also become difficult to run any part of your business properly. If you're overwhelmed, you might start to shut down and not do anything.

[00:18:30] James: essentially at this point we're talking about burnout.

[00:18:32] James: If you're burnt out on what you're doing, you're gonna do less and less, which means every aspect of your business is going to suffer, and that's not something you want because if you're trying to make this your full-time income, your full-time livelihood, you need to be running at a hundred percent as much as possible. It could even result in band mates leaving tour. This is something that I saw. I've mentioned it on the podcast a couple times. Back in 2016, stellar corpses had all their gear [00:19:00] stolen in Texas. That sucked. That really sucked for them, their guitarist decided that she didn't wanna be there anymore.

[00:19:08] James: Now, the rest of the band Said, Hey, we're gonna keep going. We're gonna borrow gear. We're touring with another band. They've generally said that we can use some of their stuff. We're gonna keep going. Their guitarist decided that she wasn't gonna be part of that, She wanted to go home, take a break, and then come back. Well, she wasn't allowed to come back because the band said, you know what? If you're gonna leave us when we've all just gone through the same traumatic experience, you're gonna leave us high and dry. Without a guitarist on this tour, you're not welcome back. Now, looking back at the time, I thought that was the right decision. It's like, Hey, no, we're in this together now. I'm not so sure, and I don't mean any shade to any of the people who were involved in that decision. Now I think, Hey, you know what? She was about 15 years younger than the rest of the band members. She might not have been able to cope with that as well as they were, so maybe they should have said, okay, yeah, that's fine. We'll see you whenever you're ready.[00:20:00] But at the same time, bandmates don't do that. we talked recently about having a modular band and swapping out members here and there when you need to, but the thing is, that's done with planning.

[00:20:11] James: the episode with Keep Flying, go to the show [email protected] slash 1 66. That's the number 166. the link to that episode with Keep Flying will be in there, They have a modular band. Half the tours they do maybe more. They have members who are not actually in the band playing live for them. And that is great. I am so happy that they can do that. But they do that in advance. They plan it. It's not one member saying suddenly, Hey, I'm bailing on you guys. Sorry. So I'm torn about the stellar corpses situation.

[00:20:42] James: I still think probably they made the right choice, but at the same time, it's likely that the guitarist was just feeling incredibly overwhelmed and could not focus at that time, and she did the best thing for her own mental health.

[00:20:54] Matt: these said to things happen all the time. and it's not just small DIY bands. literally every level of [00:21:00] the game go read Scar Tissue by Anthony Kiis. It's a phenomenal read. Everybody should read that book because it kind of highlights some of the problems that you run into at the very lowest level of the game are the same ones you run into at the very highest level of the game flea.

[00:21:13] Matt: A daughter and couldn't spend his time touring. And so the chili peppers sat and talked, and I know I've told this story before, but they played three days a week. and you can't hire a crew for three days a week. You have to hire them for all seven days a week.

[00:21:26] Matt: So they weren't making any money because flea needed that time off for his daughter. they could have said, oh, you're out later. Peace. But they didn't, they figured out a way to make it work. And they struggled for, you know, probably quite a few years to make money while touring. But it was that open communication and it was, The focus of, not spreading themselves too thin. They, they were so afraid of spreading themselves too thin. I that has happened so much to them, to the point where John Hanta has quit the bands multiple times, because he runs a production company and he does this on solo music and he does chili peppers music.

[00:21:58] Matt: And there's famous pictures of the [00:22:00] chili peppers where they're on a red carpet. Chad and Flea and Anthony are standing there for the photo while John is like turned to the side on his phone running stuff about his production company.

[00:22:10] Matt: he was so constantly spread too thin that it resulted in him kind of falling out of love with the music. and that can happen to everybody. It's not unique to diy. It's not that, once you make it big, then you no longer have to worry about these things.

[00:22:24] Matt: If anything, you have to be more on the ball about these things because now your machine is so much bigger and you have so many more working parts. giant venues that you know have exclusive deals for selling your merch, which means you have to.

[00:22:37] Matt: Different people that are responsible for running money between places if you ever go to a, a major arena show, it's always venue staff that's selling merchandise. It's never actually uh, banned merchandise. The band wouldn't be able to bring enough merchandise to sell that kind of merchandise.

[00:22:52] Matt: I still remember seeing Fallout boy years and years and years ago at the Pepsi Center in Denver and, The merch line was out of this world, and every single person that was [00:23:00] working, it was a Pepsi Center employee nobody that had anything to do with the bands were doing this.

[00:23:04] Matt: Even just managing that alone is a giant tub of stress. ideally, once you get to that level of the game, you want the bandmates to be focusing on the performance and on the music and on the joy.

[00:23:16] Matt: the way that you do this is, you have your ACEs in your places work with a really good management company, work with really good booking agents really good promoters who really understand their individual roles in the system.

[00:23:26] Matt: And when you can finally get a whole bunch of people that, that know exactly, where they are supposed to be and when they're supposed to be there, that's when everything becomes a lot more frictionless. . you can plan things to avoid spreading yourself then, and the big way you plan ahead is plan for the next year, plan for the next three years, plan for the next five years. it doesn't really matter. You can outline what needs to be done and when. And if you have a five year.

[00:23:50] Matt: what happens when you meet your one year goal in six months? Well, now you still have something to work towards, Olympians are a very good point of reference because [00:24:00] many athletes they lose a sense of purpose when they achieve their goals and they do not have a goal beyond their greatest goal. Actually one of the most recent decathlon winner, like Big 10 winner, he was talking about how he achieved his four year goals in two years. And what should have been this extreme moment of triumph.

[00:24:20] Matt: And he did it after an injury too. So it was, it was something he expected to take a long time to work towards, and he was very vigilant about his health, his nutrition, and working hard. And he eventually got to the point where he met his goal and he met it faster than he expected. Now after he finished his goal, that led him into this like upset slump to where he didn't know where to go. he basically described it as like feeling lost. even though he had achieved one of his greatest life accomplishments, he felt like, He didn't know where to go because he didn't have that extra layer.

[00:24:52] Matt: And so his advice to everyone was to dream big. And when they say dream big, he meant really dream big. don't be afraid to say, this is where I want to be in [00:25:00] 20 years. This is where I want to be in 10 years. That's okay.

[00:25:02] Matt: the biggest thing was setting up these one, five and 10 year plans is. , it gives you a really zoomed out vision so that you don't get lost along the way in, you know, little trivial things. And at the same time, it allows for rigidity for you to say, like, I'm gonna stay the course.

[00:25:19] Matt: But it also allows for some flexibility because you can say, you know what, this is a 10 year goal. This isn't a one year goal. So I know that, I've got time and I've got ways that I can expand on this and I can really make this better. if you have a general guideline, then that gives you just the freedom to find the joy in between the lines.

[00:25:39] Matt: one of my favorite things to do while you're out on tour and I know we've talked about this before as well, but just doing fun things with your band mates. It's one way you can keep mental health strong. It's one way you can keep physical health strong. health is a very uh, broad, encompassing term, but it's really impressive what you can do when.

[00:25:57] Matt: A few days of work is offset by [00:26:00] going and seeing Niagara Falls, going to a waterpark that happens to be, next to the venue.

[00:26:05] James: Darienne Lake. Shout out

[00:26:07] Matt: San Diego is a, is a waterpark too.

[00:26:09] James: It closed. It closed.

[00:26:12] Matt: it's funny at Warp Tour, playing Warp Tour gets you admission into the waterpark when it was still there. And whenever I would meet a musician on Warp Tour who wasn't going to the water.

[00:26:22] Matt: I was like, Ooh, are you okay? you don't like joy? are you a glutton for punishment? I mean, and lit. It just doesn't make sense to me because for me it's like, my favorite thing ever is to go out with my band mates and have these awesome experiences and, and go see these beautiful places, which also, you know, if you happen to be on tour with a photographer, they're a great place for getting candid photos behind the scenes stuff.

[00:26:43] Matt: Making TikTok videos where people can really have a chance to connect with their audience. and really see who you are not on stage, which is incredibly important in today's industry. Just in general, like DJ Khaled, he was a champion of Snapchat his music got popular because he [00:27:00] was constantly active on He'd be sending, you you know, a thousand snaps a. of just the random stuff he was doing. he went out jet skiing. he cut his foot while jet skiing. Cool. Here's another snap. Oh, he's done jet skiing. Cool. Here's another snap. Oh, he had a thought about how he felt while he was jet skiing.

[00:27:15] Matt: Cool. Here's another snap. And it was just kind of like this whole candid, behind the scenes, you know, reality tv. Showed the world that people want to see what's happening in your real life. They want reality. They love the puff pieces, they love the edited photos, and they also want the human realism because when people are put up on a pedestal, they're untouchable.

[00:27:38] Matt: But when people are doing real life activities, they're. relatable I saw Craig Owens on stage and was like, I want to be a musician for the rest of my life.

[00:27:46] Matt: But really what made me fall in love was his human interaction with. . I could have seen anybody on stage and thought I wanna do that for the rest of my life. But it was his interaction with me. the relativity.

[00:27:57] James: Yeah. And, and one side note I just wanna throw out there is if you're [00:28:00] doing these activities, be ready to potentially run into fans expect that that might happen and be ready to treat them with kindness. when uh, I was on my first Warped tour, I went to the Darien Lake theme park with my friend Steph, who is on my bus.

[00:28:14] James: And we were just going around, we're like, oh, hey, let's ride this roller coaster. And all of a sudden there's, I Fight Dragons, one of my favorite bands. Now, to be fair, they knew me. I'd interviewed them three times already by that point, I think. And I was in their fan club. I'd run merch for them at their Boston show when they toured a 3 0 3 in Cobra Starship.

[00:28:32] James: So they knew me, I knew them. And of course they knew I was on tour cause I'd seen them like five times already, in the first few weeks of Warp. But so we're like, oh, hey, you're, going to the roller coaster. We're going to the roller coaster. And that's how I ended up riding one of the roller coasters at Darien Lake with one of my favorite bands.

[00:28:48] James: That is a core memory that I'm never going to forget. And that was a really bad day as a whole. That was the day that I got pooped on by a bird I was wearing a poncho and I was right by the [00:29:00] inflatable water slide.

[00:29:00] James: So I walked over and had the guy hose me down, , which was fun, but still, crappy day, It was really muddy. My shoes got soaked through, I think one of the trucks got stuck in the mud that morning, like one of the box trucks. So overall terrible day until I finished it by riding a roller coaster with one of my favorite bands and. I knew them so they were kind of chill with it, but it could have been a random fan. And I'm sure that happened to some of the bigger acts that were on the tour that year that if they went over to the theme park, to ride the roller coasters, that random people came up and like, oh my God, you're so and so from Escape the Fate, August Burns Red yellow card Bowling for Soup.

[00:29:39] James: less than Jake. All those bands. And I'm sure that if they said, Hey, we're gonna ride this ride too, do you wanna ride it with us? That would've made a fan's life. They would've been like, oh my God. My favorite singer said, do you wanna ride a rollercoaster with me?

[00:29:54] James: it would've done that for me. cuz I knew Life by Dragons already. It was kinda like, oh, this is really cool. But if [00:30:00] I were just some random kid who was attending Warp Tour and I Fight Dragons asked me to ride the roller coaster with them, I would've been freaking out

[00:30:07] James: inside.

[00:30:08] James: So be prepared for stuff like that to happen. Even if it's not Warped tour, even if you're just a random person going to a theme park, people might recognize you and say, Hey, are you so-and-so cool? Can we get a photo together? I've seen a video of Jason Varitek at a theme park and his wife convinces him to go up to a guy wearing a Jason Varitek shirt, by the way, Jason Vertek was the Red Sox catcher for like 15 years.

[00:30:32] James: And Jason Varitek he goes up and he's like talking to the guy. He's like, Hey, yeah, so you're a Red Sox fan, blah, blah, blah. And he is like, yeah, by the way, what's your name? And the guy goes, Mike, or whatever it is. And he goes, nice to meet you, Mike. I'm Jason. And the guy just goes, I thought you looked familiar.

[00:30:50] James: You're Ja. Jason Varitek Jason's like, yeah, Jason Varitek nice to meet you. I saw you were wearing my shirt. So my, my wife said I should come over and say hi. And the [00:31:00] guy is just absolutely blown away that one of his favorite baseball players came up to him. And you can do that. If you see somebody wearing your band's shirt, go up to them, talk to

[00:31:10] James: them.

[00:31:10] James: I remember the first Warped tour I ever went to, I was wearing a gallows shirt, this is 2010. And Gallows was still a big thing. And I saw multiple people wearing Gallo's shirts and always like, oh, what's up dude? And then I saw a tweet from Gallo's drummer. He was at that warped tour visiting his girlfriend.

[00:31:25] James: He's from the uk. He flew over to that warped tour date to visit her. And he tweeted something along the lines of, I'm seeing so many Gallo shirts today. It's really sick. And I just replied back. I was like, oh, hey, you probably saw me. I was walking around all day with a Gallo shirt. and even though he didn't specifically call me out, he didn't know me, anything like that, it was that special moment.

[00:31:43] James: So be prepared for stuff like that to happen. Now this whole tangent, this is a huge tangent, just talking about making your fans happy. Don't spread yourself thin on that. If you're not in a good mood, say to fans, Hey, like, I'm really sorry I don't have the bandwidth to talk to fans right now. If [00:32:00] but if you send me a message on Instagram and explain what happened, I will get back to you in a couple days. Like, I'm really sorry. send me a message and we can chat there. But right now I have to be with my family or right now I have five minutes before I have to get to bus call or I have five minutes and then I have to go get ready to get on stage, whatever it is. just be honest with people, cuz most people will understand that yeah, you're busy. That way you can avoid spreading yourself too thin while still giving your fans the time of day and some other way to get a quality interaction with you. You can even say, Hey, you know, I can't chat, but do you wanna take a photo real quick? They'll probably say, oh, you want a photo? Yeah, sure. Let me grab my phone and they'll be happy that you suggested

[00:32:41] James: that. All that aside, capacity defense is one of the best tools you can use to avoid overwhelming yourself And essentially what that is, is you say any ideas we have before we put those ideas into action. We prioritize them. We have a list of [00:33:00] ideas, and we only focus on the highest priority ideas. If it's not a high priority, if it's not going to bring new income, new fans or whatever it is to a considerable level, we're not going to do that, and we're gonna focus on higher priority things that will bring us more money, more fans, more fame, whatever it is you're going for. Now, the other thing is just take a break. whether it's five minutes, a day, a week, six months, whatever. Take that break. Discuss it with your band mates if you need to say, Hey, we just came off this tour. We're not gonna do anything for six months. Talk it over. Make sure everyone's on the same page. If it's five minutes, just say, Hey, you know, I know we're going on in 20 minutes, but I just need five minutes. Peace and quiet. Can you guys all go to the next room or something, please. Or can I go to the next room and you guys stay here? I'll be back on time to go on stage, but I need five minutes to myself.

[00:33:53] Matt: you hit the nail right in the head I ever see a van and trailer parked in a parking lot, And I'm like, Hmm, oh yeah, that's clearly a band. I walk up and I ask oh, you guys [00:34:00] touring. I see somebody on the Planet Fitness and I'm like, oh yeah, all of these dudes are not here working out.

[00:34:04] Matt: These dudes are here showering. This is a band, I'll walk up and I'll talk to them. I remember one time we played Allentown, Pennsylvania, and one of the bands we were supposed to play with had van trouble, so they had to drop off the bill.

[00:34:14] Matt: fast forward four months or so and in a random parking lot in Colorado. Saw this band van and I walked up, I was like, oh, who are you guys? And they were like, oh, we're this. I was like, oh, no joke. We missed you in in Allentown. I played for live in Barcelona. And then immediately they were like, oh, this is so awesome. And when most of us had this conversation, but there was one band mate who was tired, and you know what he did?

[00:34:35] Matt: He stayed in the van and he slept. And that was impressive. Didn't bug me one bit. his band mates, they knew he was tired. So I said, oh, you know, where's this guy? They said, oh, you know, he's not, because he's doing this just recently. I went to go see the plot in you with

[00:34:50] Matt:

[00:34:50] Matt: Silent Planet and Avoid and somebody else, and avoids guitarist. Luke was not there. we toured with those guys and I went out and I was like, oh, [00:35:00] where's Luke at? And they're like, he took this tour off for mental health and everybody in the band. They all knew that he took it off for mental health.

[00:35:06] Matt: They all supported him. They were like, you know what, Luke's our boy. He needed the time off. And that was that, wasn't afraid to go to his band mates and say like, Hey guys, this isn't something I can do. It was a great tour too. I mean, I, I went to the Denver show and that place was freaking packed.

[00:35:18] Matt: the plot in you is, amazing. And they're, killing it right now. he could have had his dream come true and blah, blah, blah, this, but instead he chose to take breaks.

[00:35:26] Matt: and that's just important. You never know when you're gonna be approached by a fan. You never know like what scenario you're gonna be in. So the best thing that you can do is have clear expectations. have good conversations with your bandmates so they know where you're at mentally and physic. And then on top of that, opportunity only knocks once, and it's your choice to make whatever you want to from that scenario. Hey, Monday was discovered by Pete Wentz because he was in a boardroom and he heard their music playing on the speaker, and he said, who is this?

[00:35:54] Matt: and then he reached out to them and said, blah, blah, blah, this blah, blah, blah, that want to go on tour with you. You guys are great. And that turned [00:36:00] into this like wonderful tour for them and, and I had a good career for a while. And now she's married to Ryan, the drummer from all time Low. opportunity knocked and it literally changed her entire life because consequently that resulted in her finding her husband, really, it's fascinating, opportunity knocks and you have no idea where it will take you. So don't spread yourself too thin on the trivial things. make sure you get good sleep. Make sure you get good food. Don't spread your nutrition too thin, cuz then when a good opportunity rises, you're gonna be like, oh yeah, no, sorry, I, I gotta go eat.

[00:36:31] Matt: It's like, oh man. That would've been cool if I decided to eat earlier so that way I could have actually gone to ride the roller coaster with Ifi Dragon. . never know. And so you just try to stay consistent as consistent as you can. If you spread yourself too thin, it's gonna be detrimental to you and to your band.

[00:36:48] Matt: So plan ahead. Avoid this happening. Learn from your mistakes, grow. Write things down if you have to. But most importantly, communicate. And don't spread yourself too thin.

[00:36:58] James: That does it for this [00:37:00] episode of the Bandhive Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. I really hope that this episode has taught you how you can avoid spreading yourself too thin, how you can avoid burnout and how you can enjoy your life as a musician more.

[00:37:14] James: Because ultimately, if you're trying to do music as a career, it's probably because you don't want a day job. You don't want to go into a retail job, earn office, or whatever it is. You want to have a career that you enjoy, that you love. Now, no job, no career is going to ever present itself without challenges, but if you put in the work and make music a career, it's one of the most rewarding things you could ever do.

[00:37:41] James: So as part of that, you need to hit the road. You need to be able to tour and play shows because this is how you grow your fan base. Ultimately, it is the most effective way to grow your fan base. There are other ways to do it, but this is the way. You can't do that without a tour history to [00:38:00] present two promoters and venues when you're booking shows.

[00:38:03] James: Now, some bands make up numbers. That's not the way to go. That's not what you wanna do. Instead, you can log every single show you play. that way when you go to a market for the second, third, fifth, 20th time, you can say, here's our past history in this market Now you can go build your own spreadsheet, you can put it in notes, or you can go to Bandhive.rocks/history and get a free template for your tour history.

[00:38:31] James: It has a handy dashboard that shows you how many venues you've played, how many cities, how many states, what your average pay is, what your average attendance is, and all kinds of other cool stats. Again, you can get this for free by going to Bandhive.rocks/history, and this tool will let you get more shows, book better shows, and impress promoters across the country.

[00:38:57] James: So go to Bandhive.rocks/history and [00:39:00] get your master show log today. Again, that's Bandhive.rocks/history. We'll be back with another brand new episode of the Bandhive Podcast next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern Time, right here in your favorite podcast app. Until then, I hope you have a great week. Stay safe, and of course, as always, keep rocking.

[00:39:17] James: I dunno, I just feel like it sounds too egotistical. it's like Bandhive Podcast

[00:39:23] Matt: That's what people want.

[00:39:24] James: Yeah, we're metal guys. 1 0 5 0.9. The radiator trying to make me laugh,

[00:39:34] Matt: The

[00:39:35] Matt: radiator

[00:39:36] James: It's so easy. the radiator.

[00:39:39] Matt: I remember one time doing uh, liners for radio station and it was a long time, Jesse and I were drinking it was like 250 liners and one of the ends was like the cougar. And so I was like, oh, welcome to, you know, 77 25 Burlington, the Cougar

[00:39:59] James: did [00:40:00] you do that when you were with Pirate?

[00:40:01] Matt: maybe I did. I, I honestly, I have no idea. But it was, it was hilarious and I don't know if they ever ended up using it, but I was like, it's funny, I'm leaving it

[00:40:09] James: Pirate is my professor, Steve Theo from when I was in college. Like I knew him before I went to college because of Pirate. when I was considering Baystate, I actually reached out. I was like, Hey, your LinkedIn says you're a professor there.

[00:40:20] James: Now I'm gonna go to school there. Maybe like, tell me about it. So I actually, I knew my professor before I went to

[00:40:27] James: school. That was fun. And then we started a radio station and stuff and all that. but yeah, they used to send me liners sometimes and I would just ignore them. I saw when live in Barcelona, when you put out your album in 2019 like that came in and I was like, oh, I'm gonna grab this, but I have no idea if there was a liner attached

[00:40:41] Matt: There probably was

[00:40:44] James: dude, it's funny, like way back in the day, gallows sent liners and I wish I had that. I saw it, I was like, I don't care about Gallows. And like two weeks later they got announced for tour with afi. I'm like, I deleted

[00:40:55] James: that . And now they're one of my favorite bands. So it'd be cool to be like, here's this like, [00:41:00] major label at the time.

[00:41:01] James: Band being like, Hey, this is W G D R playing field. Like that's my radio station And I got liners from them later cause I've interviewed them three times, but

[00:41:09] James: still,

[00:41:09] Matt: Hi, darle.

[00:41:10] James: Darle. What's up buddy? I haven't seen him in

[00:41:13] Matt: say hi, darle?

[00:41:14] James: Hey, you buddy.

[00:41:15] Matt: Say hi poppers?