[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 208 of the Bandhive Podcast.

[00:00:04] James: It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. First off, before you jump into the show, just want to say happy Thanksgiving if you are in the United States and listening the week that this episode is released. I hope you're going to have an amazing time with family, friends, loved ones, whoever it is in your life that you decide to spend Thanksgiving with.

[00:00:26] James: So again, happy Thanksgiving, and thank you for taking the time out of your week to listen to this episode. This is an episode that was requested by users in the BandHive Discord group. Specifically, Alex and Ty from the band Aurora had this question. Should we rent a van or should we buy a van? And I want to say if you ever have questions hop on over to the bandhive discord server You can find it at bandhive.

[00:00:52] James: rocks slash discord and in that server We have weekly live chats with our community where you [00:01:00] can ask questions I'll bring up topics to discuss current events in the music business that kind of stuff But you can also talk about what you'd like to hear on the podcast. So if you have any requests, head on over to bandhive.

[00:01:11] James: rocks slash discord, join the discussion and drop your topic requests in the podcast discussion channel. So the question, should we buy a van or should we rent a van for our tours? And it really comes down to how often you're going to tour. And if you have uses for that van, outside of the work you're doing.

[00:01:34] James: Really, having been in both rental vans and borrowed vans, but I'm not sure ever an owned van. Oh no, I have been in an owned van. I haven't toured in an owned van, but I've been in it and it was really nice. The band did a great job with it. We had them on the show a couple of times. It was Pickwick Commons.

[00:01:51] James: Those guys did an amazing job with their van. You can't do that with a rental. So if you're touring a lot, it might make sense. But it's a question [00:02:00] that every band who wants to hit the road should ask themselves. Because touring in multiple vehicles, even though that works, It's not necessarily the nicest thing.

[00:02:07] James: It's not the best thing and I don't recommend it unless it's really a short tour that you're doing You know a couple weekends a year or something like that But if you're doing anything more than that, you're gonna be more comfortable in a van The first aspect we're gonna look at is the financial aspect because this is the big one money matters.

[00:02:25] James: If you are renting a van, there's going to be a few pros. The biggest one is there's no long term commitment. You can rent a van for a week and never see that van again. If you're doing a two month tour, it's going to add up. Yeah. But guess what? If something breaks down, that maintenance is going to be on the rental company.

[00:02:44] James: Most likely, they might ask you to do oil changers or something in between, but that's not a big deal. But if you break down in the middle of nowhere, they're probably going to get you a replacement van pretty quickly. You also have the flexibility to scale up or scale down based on your needs for different [00:03:00] tours.

[00:03:00] James: You realize that 15 passengers is too much? Okay, let's go with a 12 passenger this time. Or let's go with a minivan. It really all depends on what you're going to be doing. The cons though, well, like I said, if you're doing longer tours or if you're doing a lot of shorter tours, it's going to be quite expensive.

[00:03:16] James: There might also be hidden fees and you're going to have to pay that rental insurance. I always recommend. If you're renting a van that isn't covered by your insurance, which most of the time it isn't, get that collision damage coverage because, yeah, your liability coverage will cover you if there's something that happens, but if you end up on the hook to spend, 50 thousand or more for a van because you totaled it, that sucks.

[00:03:43] James: It's worth paying the extra insurance for a collision. You also might see that one tour you have a good rate and two months later all of a sudden the rates are way higher Because there's more demand so you might not be able to accurately budget for what you're gonna pay [00:04:00] unless you're always Renting that van far in advance, which means paying for it far in advance in most cases when it comes to buying the pros are Long term, you're gonna save money.

[00:04:10] James: You're gonna save a lot of money, really. You also have the resale value of the van. It's not just gonna go up in smoke unless you total it or something, in which case the insurance will pay it out. Ideally, at least. would, again, get that collision coverage. But you're also going to be able to customize the van to fit your needs.

[00:04:29] James: You can put in storage, you can put in bunks, all kinds of stuff. And this is what Pickwick commons had done for their van. unfortunately they broke up by the time of their breakup. They were working on a bus. I haven't seen that one. I haven't been in that one, but their van was sweet. They had a microwave, they had a generator.

[00:04:45] James: They had all kinds of stuff and the generator was actually in their trailer, but you could start it from inside the van. They went all out with this. It was an amazing setup and Any band who wants to tour should have a setup that nice like if you can afford it hands down do it [00:05:00] So you have that flexibility?

[00:05:02] James: And again, you have the resale value. I'm sure they got a pretty penny for that van when they decided to get rid of it. The cons though, there is a massive upfront cost and you're going to be responsible for all the maintenance and repairs and it will lose value over time, especially if you buy a new vehicle and drive it off the lot, you're going to lose thousands right there.

[00:05:22] James: There's one other pro, though, that I want to mention, which is if you own the vehicle, you can help offset your costs by renting it out on an app like Turo. Turo is kind of like Airbnb for cars. I have never put my own vehicle on there to be honest, but I've rented from other people on Turo quite a bit.

[00:05:41] James: And honestly, it is so nice. Like it's a hundred percent worth it. And a lot of times cheaper than renting from a rental agency. So, if you're comfortable putting a van on there, you can put your vehicle on Turo and let other people rent your van or other bands rent your van. Probably it's going to [00:06:00] be a lot of people who are just doing Oh, we want to do a camping trip.

[00:06:02] James: You have a camper van. Let's rent that. Or, Oh, we need to transport a bunch of people. Cool. Let's put them in this van. That is an option to help offset those costs. Next is the convenience factor. If you're renting. You can rent from pretty much anywhere. You can check prices, you can see who's got the best location nearest to the airport or the venue, you have all kinds of options. And especially if you're doing a one way tour, for example, you're touring from New York to LA, you can rent it in New York and drop it off in LA. And there'll be a small cost for that, but it's not going to be like the cost of driving it all the way back if it's your own van.

[00:06:40] James: so that will be incredibly helpful for you as well. If you're flying into your first state or flying home from the last state, a rental is going to be a lot easier than paying somebody to drive it back across the country to get to your home location. Again, you'll also have a replacement vehicle if the van breaks down.

[00:06:57] James: You don't have that if you own your own van. [00:07:00] You're gonna have to go out and find a rental and hope that they allow you to tow a trailer if you have a trailer. Because a lot of rentals won't allow trailer towing. On the other hand though, during peak seasons, you might not find availability, and you're also going to have all the logistics involved in the pickup and drop off.

[00:07:15] James: The paperwork, it can take an hour or two to do all the paperwork depending on who you're renting for and how busy the office is, which is not an ideal. On the other hand, if you're buying, it's always available when you need it. Even if you're renting it out, you can set blackout dates that people can't rent it so you know you're going to have it and then you can just set it up and Have it your way.

[00:07:36] James: You can set up any storage you want, and that's how it is. You always know what to expect with your van. It's not gonna be like, Oh, this van is slightly different. Now we have to figure out how to fit everything in here because it's not exactly the same. Again though, the cons. Well, you're gonna have to put it somewhere when you're not touring.

[00:07:52] James: You need to have a garage or a parking space for it. If you live in a city, that is a massive consideration. If you're out in the middle of nowhere like me, [00:08:00] it's probably a little easier, but then again, at the same time, like, you know, We have to get our driveway plowed in winter. We can't just shovel it or snowblow it We have a guy come in and he clears the snow for us with a snowplow because we have a long driveway Well, if there's a car sitting out there or a van sitting out there That's something we have to move or he has to plow around that's not the ideal either you need to take to make sure that you can actually store this van when you're not using it on tour.

[00:08:29] James: And then you also have any issues that come up, you're not going to have that safety net of a rental company that you can call and say, Hey, the van broke down, we need another one, or we need a repair, or whatever. You're going to have to figure this all out yourself. Ideally, you have AAA and you can use that, it's not going to be the same as just calling up and saying, hey, can you swap VANS for us please, this one broke down and we need to keep going.

[00:08:53] James: not that it's that easy when you're renting, but it is easier than when you own your own van Next up is personalization and [00:09:00] comfort and I already kind of alluded to this when I was talking about Pickwick Commons when you're renting You're gonna have the newest model pretty much all of the time You don't have to worry about wear and tear depreciation that kind of stuff But you can't customize it to what you want or need for that tour When you buy though, you can do what Pickwick did and just set up everything.

[00:09:19] James: So it's exactly how you want it. You can really make the van yours and you're going to have that consistency. Like I was saying of you set it up and that's your setup. But, you might also affect the resale value with modifications, depending on what it is. If you do like a camper van setup, that's definitely going to be a higher resale value.

[00:09:38] James: If you tear out a bunch of the original equipment in the van and replace it with your own and it doesn't look great, that's probably going to decrease the value unless you can restore it before you sell it. So always look out for that. There's pros and cons. to what you're doing when you customize your van.

[00:09:55] James: The last thing is flexibility. I know you kind of mentioned this when you're renting. [00:10:00] You can choose a different van depending on what you need for that tour and there's no long term commitment. You also have to abide by the rental agreements. So, for example, a lot of rental agreements will say you can't go off road.

[00:10:14] James: Okay, we're probably not going to do that, right? But what if you're playing a music festival and they ask you to drive up to the stage? And the stage is in a field. Well, now you're technically breaking that rental agreement and if nothing happens, probably no harm, no foul. Now, I'm not telling you to go to do this, but who's going to know if something happens though?

[00:10:34] James: Now you have a problem because you broke that rental agreement. The insurance you purchased from the rental company probably isn't going to cover that either because you weren't doing an activity that was approved. And a lot of times those insurance riders will say that they only apply to approved activities.

[00:10:50] James: So there are catches there that you have to look out for. Whereas if you buy, you can use the van for other purposes between tours. You can rent it out, [00:11:00] like I mentioned. You can use it for your own business if you have a business. And you don't really have any restrictions on what you use it for. Aside from the law, which you should always follow, because if you don't follow the law you're going to get yourself in trouble.

[00:11:14] James: On the other end of things though, you don't have the flexibility, so if your van's needs change, you're stuck with that van until you can sell it and buy something new. When it comes to real life experience I gotta say, a rental van is really nice. I've toured in green vans, and they are fantastic.

[00:11:30] James: They are super comfortable, they are new. it's just a good experience. They have a fleet of Ford vans, I did it when they had E350s, now they have transits as well. it's a nice experience. You get the van, they'll even drop it off to you if you're in the right city, and you just do your tour and that's it.

[00:11:47] James: That said, I've also done tours in borrowed vans, and that quickly gets sketchy. This was a 2015 tour. And the E350 we had was, I believe, a 99, and it had been [00:12:00] donated to a non profit for musicians. So, we used it, but it definitely was a little sketchy, it had some issues, I probably would not have paid for that van, in fact, I definitely would not have paid for that van, and it only did a couple tours after that, the non profit decided it wasn't safe and retired it.

[00:12:16] James: No matter what you choose, make sure you think everything through. And again, if you're not going to be touring a lot, it probably doesn't make sense to buy a van unless you're going to rent it out, or you're going to use it for other things when you're not on the road. It really comes down to the finances is going to be the biggest question is how are we going to pay for this?

[00:12:35] James: What's going to be more cost effective? Renting a bunch or just owning the van because you never know until you crunch the numbers But to be honest unless you're touring more than a month or two a year You're probably going to be better off renting Just because of all the extra costs that you have when you own your own vehicle inspections Emissions tests this all depends on your state's of course registration insurance [00:13:00] Everything adds up so quickly now at the beginning of this episode.

[00:13:03] James: I mentioned our discord group So this week new call to action head on over to our discord server, which if you're not in it yet, you can find at bandhive. rocks Slash discord that is an invite link for anyone listening to this podcast and hop into the podcast Discussion channel and let's talk about vans.

[00:13:22] James: Do Do you rent your van? Do you own your van? Do you borrow your van? What's the scoop? What do you do? How's that work out for your band? And what would you recommend for other people in your situation? And again, if you have other topics you want to hear about, if you have questions, let me know because I would love to answer more community questions here on the podcast.

[00:13:42] James: So thank you so much for listening and join us at bandhive. rocks Slash discord before you do your next tour cause you never know what you're gonna learn that will come in handy before you hit the road