[00:00:00] James: to episode 183 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the show, I'm gonna talk about show at a cat. It's something that's really important for every single artist and band to know because you never know who you're dealing with at a venue, and even if you're dealing with somebody who is just an average person, they don't have any connections.

[00:00:30] James: They aren't. Anyone special, whatever. It doesn't hurt to treat these people with respect because what you might find is that this person could be a potential fan. Maybe they're just somebody who paid to see the show. it's one of the security guards working the show. You never know, but they might be a fan of your band and if you treat them poorly, Then they will never be a fan of your band because people remember how they're treated and how you specifically make them feel.

[00:00:59] James: And that's why [00:01:00] it's incredibly important to have good show etiquette. And we're not talking just about at the show, we're talking about before the show, during the show, and after the show. So it's incredibly important that you always be on your best behavior and make sure you're not burning bridges. You wanna make sure that you are putting your best foot forward at all times.

[00:01:20] James: So, like I said, we're gonna cover the pre-show, the show, and the post show etiquette When it comes to planning the show, effective, polite communication with the venue and promoter is so incredibly important. I don't promote a lot of shows, but of the handful of shows I do promote, it is often.

[00:01:39] James: So easy to tell before the show even happens, which artists I'm gonna work with again and which artists I never wanna deal with again, just because of the pain in the ass factor. if they are snippy or rude in emails, I don't wanna work with 'em again, or if they're just bad at responding, that's not an environment I need because[00:02:00] I promote shows for fun to support artists I like If those shows aren't fun, I'm not making any money on it. So why should I work with that band again? Even if they bring a bunch of people, I don't care. I don't want to work with people who don't make me feel good. And for a lot of independent artists, that's the same way you are working with venues and promoters who are in it because they love music and they want to help other artists.

[00:02:26] James: So if you're making these people feel miserable, They're not gonna want to book you again. It's as simple as that. So when it comes down to confirming dates and times, talking about the logistics, discussing your equipment needs and all of that, make sure you make it as easy as possible. Reply quickly, you know, 24 hours tops. send them that email back, send them that text, that Facebook message, whatever it is, and even if you don't have an answer yet, just say, Hey, I'm not sure we'll get back to you. Don't just leave them hanging, wondering if you even saw that email or that text [00:03:00] or that message. Just get back to them.

[00:03:01] James: It takes two seconds to say, Hey, we'll get back to you as soon as we can. It's super easy to do that. The other thing is once you're confirmed, do your best to promote the show. I don't know why I see so many bands not post about shows until a day or two before. It's like, this was booked a month ago, two months ago, three months ago.

[00:03:20] James: Why didn't you announce it when it went on sale? Why didn't you announce that, Hey, we're playing this show until two days before. have lives, they get busy. There are other shows, there are other things to do. There's parties, there's events, whatever it is. Two days before, a lot of people already have plans.

[00:03:37] James: So if you're only posting about a show two days before and not at all before that, you can't expect anyone to show up. You have to be actively promoting. As soon as that ad break hits. As soon as the show is announced, you need to promote, and both myself as a promoter and working at venues, I know I know artists who have been banned from venues for not promoting the show. Even though they were [00:04:00] great artists, they were great musicians, they played an amazing set. They didn't promote the show. So guess what? They're not coming back. Because if the venue is losing money, when the headliner doesn't promote the venue doesn't wanna lose money.

[00:04:12] James: Even if they're doing it for the love of music, they aren't out there to sell two tickets to a show. So that artist isn't gonna be coming back. I've seen this happen with multiple artists. This isn't any one specific artist. I've seen so many bands who just don't promote their shows. Now, this is something that I honestly think falls under etiquette.

[00:04:30] James: It's preparing for the show because if you don't put on the best show that you possibly can for your audience, you're kind of dissing them. So when you go out there, be sure that you are well-rehearsed. You have that set list down. You have your transitions from one song to another down. You have all your essential gear and backup equipment.

[00:04:51] James: Nobody wants to see somebody on stage begging, Hey, does anybody have a guitar I can borrow? No. Have a backup. Just do it. [00:05:00] So in my band, I joined nerves Recently, I play bass. I bring my bass, and one of the singers brings his bass. And we have an extra base. There is a backup. Both guitarists have their own guitar.

[00:05:13] James: One of them brings an extra guitar as a spare that either one can pick up and use if they need it. We have this redundancy in place. We also are on in ears. We play everything to tracks. But guess what? If those tracks go out, we can still play the set. Now a lot of bands that might not be possible. For example, if you're a bigger band, I know that happened with Ronnie Radkey and falling in reverse uh, last fall where they couldn't play a set because their computer died. And that's because they have lots of other things synced. They have lights and cues and all that kind of stuff in there, and that's understandable, but have a backup computer.

[00:05:50] James: If nerves relied on a computer that much, we would absolutely have a backup. Now, I do have another Mac, but I don't regularly take it to shows, but I could. If we're at a [00:06:00] point where, hey, we need this to be redundant, then I would take my computer, even though we usually use the singer's computer, that's totally fine.

[00:06:07] James: would have that backup there. But if you get to a point where you're relying on tracks like that, please do have that backup. I don't know why falling reverse didn't. Maybe they did and something else was wrong. I really don't know. But having redundancy across your set so there is as minimal of an interruption as possible during your set if something goes wrong, is absolutely necessary.

[00:06:29] James: The next thing is, Production advances. This is something that I see almost every single artist mess up, and it's possibly the easiest thing you could do. It's creating a stage plot and input list. It's literally just a map of where your stuff goes on stage. You put your drums, your cabs, your pedal boards, all that kind of stuff that goes on there.

[00:06:49] James: And the input list is just. One kick, two snare, three rack, Tom, four floor, Tom, five, six overheads. variations of that. If you have an extra Tom or one [00:07:00] less Tom, or you know, whatever it is. But there's variations. Then seven bass, eight guitar, one nine, guitar. Two 10 synths. 11 vocals. 12 vocals. That's it.

[00:07:11] James: That's your input list. again, you can vary it for your band, but. It's very simple to just write down the sources that need to be micd up. And you can even say like, Hey, for smaller venues, don't mic these. Or, Hey, our base has a direct out. Make notes on there. You can tell people what your preferred mic is.

[00:07:29] James: You can tell people that you're bringing your own mics. You have options here. But the main thing is just have a document that lists this. It's really not difficult and I've seen artists say, Hey, this is gonna take too much time to make, so here it is. And they just send me a list of where stuff goes on stage.

[00:07:46] James: it takes too much time. No, it doesn't. I had sent that artist a free app to make their own stage plot. I had said, you can go here, get the free trial, make a stage plot. It's literally drag and drop. so I took what they sent to me and made a [00:08:00] stage plot and sent it to them.

[00:08:01] James: Took me eight minutes. I asked, does this look right? And they said yes. And then they showed up and said, oh no, it's actually backwards. It's like, well, I asked you if it looked right and you said yes, and now you're saying it's backwards. you had made it, guess what? It would've been right in the first place and it took eight minutes.

[00:08:17] James: Now I know that time is valuable. But this is something that they can use for shows for years to come. Unless they have a lineup change or change their setup, they can use this document as long as it's accurate. So eight minutes, he probably spent more than eight minutes typing up their input list.

[00:08:32] James: And if he has to type type up the location of where everything goes on stage every single time, guess what? That's gonna add up really fast. So you can make it easier for yourself as well as for the people you're working with by just having these documents ready.

[00:08:47] James: The next thing is when you're getting to the show arriving on time, it is so, so important because you don't wanna lose part of your soundtrack. You don't wanna have to rush during load in. don't want to lose your whole soundtrack. You [00:09:00] don't want to affect the other artists and have them upset at you.

[00:09:02] James: These are all potential downfalls of being late to your load in. Be sure also that you're allowing time for any delays. You gotta make a Guitar Center run, cool. Plan that in. Add half hour, you're driving from several hours away. Cool. Add an hour, get some food. do something. If you get there an hour early, you can find something to do that in City.

[00:09:22] James: But if you get there later than you expected, guess what, you're on time. So you want to build that reputation of always being there on time. being responsible and of always being friendly. Now, when it comes to etiquette during the show, you wanna be sure that once you're in that venue, you're respectful.

[00:09:40] James: You don't treat other people's gear poorly. In fact, you don't touch it unless they say it's okay. If you want to move something, you can find the person who owns that and say, Hey, is it okay if I move this over to here? Maybe they say yes. Maybe they say no. Maybe they say, oh, I'll do it for you. And guess what? Now it's just easier because they're doing it for you. You also have to keep in mind that if you're not the [00:10:00] headliner, you're probably gonna be setting your gear up in front of somebody else's gear. you need to be conscious of space, especially if there are other artists who are then going to be setting up their gear in front of your gear.

[00:10:11] James: That does happen, not frequently. Usually it's just that the headliner leaves their gear set up and the openers put their stuff up, and then they take it down, and then the direct support and blah, blah, blah. But you know what? Sometimes there's enough space on that stage to backline everything and everything stays set up.

[00:10:26] James: So you want to make your set up as compact as possible on that stage, and if something's in the way, Strike it until you're on stage. You can put it back up then. And then as soon as your set is over, pull it back off stage. In fact, pull everything that belongs to you off stage as quickly as possible.

[00:10:41] James: No one wants to see you up there wrapping cables, but instead, you can pull all your stuff to the side, get off stage, and then wrap your cables. That's really part of an efficient setup and tear down. And the same thing goes when you're talking to sound engineers and venue staff. You want to be respectful.

[00:10:59] James: No one [00:11:00] likes the band who says, Hey, how's it sound out there? That is a direct dis to the sound engineers because what you're essentially saying is, we don't trust the person. So you tell us we can't hear out there. You can. Are they doing a good job? Instead just say, Hey, we wanna say thank you so much to X, Y, Z, the sound engineer for helping us out tonight. They're doing an amazing job and we love what they're doing here. We can hear ourselves so clearly. Just wanted to give them a special shout out. And guess what? They're gonna try even harder to make you sound better because they will feel appreciated.

[00:11:33] James: So by showing that appreciation, You are lifting up everyone in that room, you're creating a positive environment. And the same thing goes for the other venue staff, for the other bands. if you say, Hey, please remember to tip your bartenders, guess what? You might get a free drink out of that, not a bad deal.

[00:11:51] James: Same thing for the other bands you're playing with. If you can say something specific, that's amazing because every single artist says, thank you so much to X, Y, Z for having us on [00:12:00] the show. Well, What if you say, Hey, thank you so much to this person for having us on the show. We really love their song called blah, blah, blah.

[00:12:07] James: It's been a huge inspiration to us, and playing here with them is such an honor tonight. Thank you so much. Have an amazing night. Here's our last song, boom. Done. By being genuine and showing appreciation like that you are making lasting impressions on people. So again, when you're making those connections, stick around after your set.

[00:12:24] James: Watch the other bands. Make sure that they know you are watching. Ask them if they want help with their gear. Make those relationships. And I'm not saying you have to be front row for every single one of these bands, but just make it known that you're there. You're in the room, you're not outside smoking, you're not outside doing whatever.

[00:12:41] James: You're not up in your green room now. I get it. You need to rest. You need to have some time. And I've done that where like, Hey, I'm in the green room, but I'm gonna pop down to the merch table and watch the other band for a little bit. Or if we're really lucky, like at higher ground, we can go out on the balcony and watch the show from there.

[00:12:57] James: Now the other band probably isn't gonna see me up there, [00:13:00] but I can say, Hey. This was a really cool part of your set, and they're gonna know, oh, you actually saw that. Thank you for watching. There's different ways to do this, but it's so important to show that you actually took the effort to notice them, to watch them play.

[00:13:14] James: essentially, if you don't show up for them, why would they show up for you? Now when it comes to post show etiquette, again, quick and efficient and tear down. Get your stuff off stage as quickly as possible.

[00:13:25] James: Keep the stage clean. Don't leave your trash up there. Set lists, cups, whatever. Take all that stuff with you, especially if you're not headlining, because you know what? The other bands who play after you are gonna get on stage and they're gonna find a mess And now they have to clean that up if they don't wanna be tripping over your stuff for the rest of the night. So just clean up after yourself, help those other bands. you're done getting your stuff off stage, say, Hey, you need a hand lifting this cab up on stage.

[00:13:52] James: Great. Got it? Oh, you need your kick drum? Sure. Here you go. Be as helpful as possible and make sure that your gear is out of the way and only [00:14:00] stored in designated areas. And this is actually a safety thing too. A lot of venues, or at least the more legit ones, will have. Dedicated fire exits, and those have to be kept clear, both from a legal standpoint and also a safety standpoint.

[00:14:13] James: That's why it's a legal thing, because it has to be safe. So frequently they'll have taped off areas and say, Hey, nothing can be between these two strips of tape. If you're storing gear, has to be off to the side. Make sure you don't have security coming through there, and security has to move your gear or tell you to move your gear.

[00:14:27] James: Why make them do that? Just be conscious of where you're putting your stuff and make sure it's out of the way. Because it could literally be life and death, and you never want to be that person who's thinking, man, would somebody have survived if I just put my gear in the right spot?

[00:14:41] James: don't know about you, but that's not something I could live with if I knew that. Where I put my things directly impeded someone from getting out of a building safely when there's an emergency. That's not something I ever wanna even have to think about, so I just put my stuff away where it belongs, and you can do that too.

[00:14:57] James: The next thing that it comes down to is[00:15:00] when you're done playing the show, say thank you to every single person that you can, especially the people who are working the show, the other bands that are playing, but also your fans. If they come to the merch table, don't just say, Hey, yeah, it's $20. Here you go.

[00:15:13] James: Have a good night. Say, thank you so much for coming. We really appreciate it because you're here. We want to give you a freebie and you hand 'em a sticker or whatever it is because you came up to talk to us. Here's something for you. It's that simple. Just show your appreciation to every single person who gives you an opportunity to show that appreciation.

[00:15:31] James: It makes such a difference. It's really night and day Then. Be sure that you're exchanging contact information with key people. So the other bands you're playing with, maybe the promoter is talking about another venue. Say, oh, hey, you work there too. Cool. Is it the same email? Can I write this down? Good.

[00:15:47] James: Okay. We'll contact you about playing there. You can also share experiences and learn from each other. If you're talking to another band, you can say, oh yeah, you know, our show at this place was really great. Our show over there was not so great. You know, share those experiences [00:16:00] because bands learn from one another all the time.

[00:16:03] James: It is very much a word of mouth industry. Then last but not least, the post show follow up. Thank the venue, thank the promoter, and thank the other bands and of course everyone who attended the show on social media. Ideally, you have some photos from that show that you can post and you thank the photographer as well, or photographers if there are multiple and you just make a post about how amazing it was and what you liked about the show.

[00:16:28] James: If you have any little anecdotes, that's always amazing to add in as well. Then if anybody tags you in photos or videos, Share those, repost them on your Instagram story because now you are making those fans feel even more seen. Those fans posted something about your band and you went back and reposted that and you tagged them, and now guess what?

[00:16:51] James: Maybe Maybe you're not their favorite band, but you'd never know that. There are people whose favorite bands are local bands, so go out there with the assumption that [00:17:00] anyone who tags you is a potential fan of your band.

[00:17:03] James: Maybe you're their favorite band. Just go in without assumption and treat them as if they are your number one fan. That could make a massive difference. And then last but not least, analyze the show's success and identify any areas of improvement. And looking at one show doesn't necessarily give you a lot of good information.

[00:17:23] James: However, when you look at shows that you've played as a whole, you can gather a lot of information about the trends, where your band is headed, what problems you might be facing, and there's no real easy way to do this, aside from creating a spreadsheet or using one that's already out there. and here's where I have something for you. It's called the band Type Master Show log. It's a spreadsheet where you can put in all your information from the shows you've played, and it will automatically calculate data for you about the average attendance you have, the average pay, you get the average per head, which is how [00:18:00] much merch you sell per person in the room, all that kind of stuff, and much, much more.

[00:18:05] James: And it's also just a very good log of all the shows you've ever played. That's totally free, and you can grab it now by going to Bandhive Rocks slash History again, that is Bandhive Rocks slash history. Go there right now and get your free copy of the Bandhive Master Show log VA does it for this episode of the Bandhive Podcast. . Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. I really appreciate it and I hope that this episode has taught you why show etiquette is so important.

[00:18:34] James: You want to build that positive reputation no matter where you play, even if it's somewhere you think you'll never go back to. you have a solid reputation that will follow you around it will help contribute to your long-term success. On the other hand of things, if you have a negative reputation, people will know about this as well, and they're gonna be less likely to want to work with you.

[00:18:52] James: So no matter what your long-term goals are, I encourage you to follow these tips because you never know what [00:19:00] opportunities might pop up. most of the opportunities I've had in my lifetime have simply occurred to me because I'm present, I'm there and people don't dislike me. I'm generally a person who's fun to be around, and so if you're there and people like you, you're gonna get opportunities. That's really what it comes down to. If people don't like you or you're unknown because you never do anything, you don't leave the house, those opportunities aren't gonna come.

[00:19:25] James: And I know people always say it's not an, if you build it, they will come world. But if you build it right, if you go out there and build your network, then yeah, if you build that network, the opportunities will come. So be sure that you are always putting your best foot forward and giving people the treatment that you would want to receive from them.

[00:19:44] James: Show etiquette is so important from when you start booking the show all the way through till the very end, and you're sending your thank yous to every single party who was involved. It's incredibly important and it leaves that lasting impression. I know I keep saying lasting impression over and over again in this [00:20:00] episode, but it's really so true.

[00:20:01] James: It's so important that you put that impression first, and it doesn't matter. You know what? You get cut short. Five minutes. Oh, well, too bad. But if you walk off stage whining and complaining, people are gonna remember that. If you say, oh, we went over, we're so sorry. Thank you so much, everyone. Have a great night.

[00:20:18] James: People will be like, okay, cool. They handled that well. And they'll probably forget that in five years. Maybe they'll forget that by the next week. Who knows? but they're not gonna have that memory of, oh, that band, they were such jerks when they went over, like they shouldn't have gone over in the first place.

[00:20:30] James: And then they complained about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You don't want that. So thank you again for listening. It means so much to us that you're here listening to this episode. Maybe you listen every week. Maybe this is your first time, I don't know. but if you aren't already subscribed to the podcast in Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen, please do that. It helps us out so much. Just hit that subscriber follow button on your favorite podcast platform, and be sure to listen in every single week. We'll be back with another brand new episode of the Bandhive Podcast next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern. [00:21:00] Until then, I hope you have a great week.

[00:21:01] James: Stay safe, and of course, as always, keep rocking.