Welcome to Episode eight of the Bandhive Podcast.

Once again, I'm here with Matt Hoos from a live in Barcelona. How's it going today, Matt? I'm doing wonderful. James, how are you doing today? I'm doing well, thank you. It's still continues to be frigid out here in our respective states of your in Colorado.

I'm in Vermont, but that's what we chose, right? Absolutely. So by the time this episode comes out, this is long gone. But I went to a meet up last night of music industry people in Vermont, which was more of like a holiday party in this case, because we're recording this. On December 11th, people were talking about making their own music and performing live, and I kind of realized that none of these people were pitching their online presence. Really, they weren't saying, Oh, go check out my site or my Facebook page or their Instagram or anything like that.

And ah, lot of people were talking about what they do but weren't even really mentioning what name they perform under. So I think something that's really important for artists to realize is that you have tow, tell people who you are, and you have to be able to be found on the Internet. And so that's what Matt and I are going to talk about today and just before we jump into our outline here. Are there any thoughts you have Matt on? Just maybe some bands you've seen who do this really well and some bands that don't do it so well.

And if it's a band that didn't do it so well, feel free to not name drop. Just bear their dignity. Um, no, I I definitely know of a couple bands that are doing things well in terms of their online presence. So my my guitarist Jesse, he manages a band, um called Grave Bound and under his management. Over the course of the last, probably about four or five months, they have been able to take a non line audience of zero monthly Spotify listeners. I believe they just passed 300,000 streams. Wow!

In six months in about four months. Yeah, And that was all just with basic online marketing with, you know, they kept their head up. They listen to Jessie's advice, and Jesse is a very, very, very talented manager. Very, very talented at marketing on, do you know? So he's very useful to me. He does a lot of the marketing in a live in Barcelona as well, but I encourage anybody to check out grave bound and see what they've been doing over the course of the last few months.

Because it follows a perfect release plan. It follows wonderful marketing, and they've been able to achieve heights that even they never thought possible, especially in that short window of time. Yeah, so if you go to Bandhive dot rocks slash eight, that's the number eight. That's our show Notes Page and I will definitely have links to grave bound in there. Aside from their website, what platform did they mainly focus on? Two. Get this big boost in Spotify listeners. They actually used a combination of Facebook, Instagram and Spotify, the largest one being Spotify because they've figured out a wonderful direct marketing campaign, which I have used myself, which I know a couple other bands in the industry are using as well.

It's, Ah, slow process, but it is a compounding process, which is really wonderful and when used correctly, you know, it starts with direct marketing, and it continues by nurturing simple, basic relationships. And it's all based on the simple principle of business, and that is money talks. So they put a small cash investment behind a couple personalized messages, and it's been able to speak leaps and bounds for them. Well, that's awesome. And I'm thank you for sharing that success story for this band moving on from there just to give people an idea of what we're going to cover in this episode, because I think that's something that people should kind of map out in their head in this case beforehand.

First, we're going to talk about why artists need to be visible online and why it's in 2019 or 2020. By the time this episode comes out, it's just so vital to any brand, including bands or solo artists, and so we'll talk about the problems that can be caused by not being visible online, the benefits of being visible. And then we will talk about how to do this well and which platforms you should start with. But I want to stress that you should not skip forward to get to the later parts of this episode.

You absolutely should hear what problems and benefits can come from not being visible or being visible online, because that's important and will help put you in the right mind set to do it the right way. So on that note, let's jump right into it and talk about why Baines absolutely need to be visible online. And there are several problems that not being online or not being online enough can cause. And so one thing that really frustrates me is when I find a band on Instagram and I want to check out their music and I cannot find them anywhere else, I will google their name.

I will google their name with the word band at the end because that happens sometimes. I will search them on Facebook. I will search them on band camp. None of those platforms exist for that band, and they don't have a website either. But the reason that frustrates me is they're losing an opportunity right there. They're losing a potential fan because obviously I like music. You know, like if I'm interested in checking out their music and I hear something that I like, I become a fan. And personally, I'm not the kind of person who does music streaming a lot like sometimes I'll listen to something on Spotify, but typically I by music, which I know I that's totally the opposite of what most people do these days.

But I prefer toe support the artist with, like a nice upfront payment. And so if I can't find this artist anywhere, and I do eventually have to go to Spotify, what invariably happens is I check them out on Spotify, and then I forget that they exist. And I don't want to downplay how important Spotify is because that is the future and I'm just a weirdo. But that is one example of how bands can lose an opportunity. They could lose a potential fan or a lead by not being visible online because all they have is an instagram, and this can happen on other platforms to like it doesn't necessarily have to be only Instagram.

If you're only on Facebook, the same thing can happen. So that's my rant for the day. But I think that's Ah, lost potential fans is really one important thing. Matt has some thoughts on this next point. So why don't you take it away? You bet. Thank you. So what I will really say is, um the internet is a door to everywhere. Now. I don't know how many of you are too young. Thio, recognize this old phrase? The longer you listen to this podcast, the more you realize I really like quotes with you having a door toe everywhere.

You know, it's not what you know that gets you in the door. It's who you know that gets you in the door. Well, not being on the Internet, not using the Internet as a marketing platform is basically closing every single one of those doors. So now you're in a room that has a door toe everywhere, and you're not going to walk through any of them. And that's the biggest problem that people don't realize when they're doing their you know, when they're building their online platforms when they're staging basically all of their products.

And this in turn, you know, just like you were talking about a second ago. James, where you were saying, You know, you first like to buy the album. Well, one thing you also forgot to mention was that you have a podcast. So maybe you buy that person's album and maybe you end up loving their music so much that you end up plugging them in a podcast. Now, podcasts it's online for eternity. So now this band, simply by having ah website or having an online store that you could go and purchase their music from that might result in a life long lead funnel that might result in, you know, maybe you don't have all the money or the connections in the world.

But maybe someone important from a record label listens to your podcast, and that results in them hearing this other bands, music, them, digging in a little bit. And you know what they're going to find if you don't have a website, they're not gonna find anything and you know what? They're gonna dio. They're gonna stop looking. You know, the biggest thing to remember is that when you're online and you're building a website. It's not just this inanimate object that people can go to. It's not like a merch table in the back of the room.

You know, your website is the greatest platform for you to make money. The Onley thing that matters in business is how you are going to make money. People will always say, I don't play music for the money, but I want to play music my whole life. It's like, Okay, those right there are fighting terms. Those do not coexist. The news flash is that if you are trying to be a musician as a livelihood, then you are in music for the money. And so you have to be willing to explore avenues that are going to generate money for you.

And the best of these is the Internet. Well, I want to touch on what you said about being in music for the money, because I agree with that. But I also think there's more to it, which might have to be a totally different episode. But But I also want to go back Thio what you were saying about the podcast here and I think that's a great point, but I think another opportunity that people might miss out on aside from record labels, is other bands. Listen to this podcast.

You as a band have no idea what other bands listen to this podcast. There could be more established bands who listen to this, and if they heard your band's name mentioned, would say, Hey, you know, I'll go check them out and then they like your music and take you out on the road with them and say, Hey, you know, we need support for our next tour. That's a huge missed opportunity, all because you didn't have your music online for me to find it. And that's not me trying to toot my own horn, because at least right now we don't have that much clout yet.

We're just getting this thing going. But that's something that down the road, either. If this podcast gets huge, people will listen back to this episode and Seo let me check out this band or there are other podcasts. Lots of other podcasts doesn't even have to be a podcast. But there are places where your band could be found if you are online. But if you're not online. You will not be found. Absolutely. I just kind of wanted to add to that. And that's that Justin Bieber was found on YouTube.

Hey, Monday, Waas. Yeah. Hey, Monday. Which, for those of you who don't know their vocalist, she after hey, Monday ended up breaking up. She went on to win the voice. Um, and chastity, Yeah, Cassie, I mean, a phenomenal, phenomenal vocalist. But I think the first time I saw her on tour, well, I mean, it was like a sold out show at a 1500 cap room. And Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy happened to hear their song. I can't remember if it was in ah, like they went into, ah, coffee shop or something.

And he heard this song and he liked it. So he asked whoever was playing the music, who they were, and then because they were online and had an online presence, he was able to find them, and they ended up taking them out on tour, and they ended up having a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, you know, short career. And in the end, I believe she's now married to the drummer from all time low, which I would venture to say that that relationship probably would not have sparked if it hadn't come from her music career and putting herself out there on the Internet.

So you really have no idea what types of opportunities you're missing out on. These aren't just music opportunities, these air, lifetime opportunities, these air, the memories that you are going to have, you know, for eternity, these air, the memories you're gonna make with your family, your friends, that things you're gonna get printed out and hang up on your walls. So, Thio expound on what you're saying, the importance of being online You will never be found if you do not put yourself out there 100% even on a smaller scale.

Matt, you and I met on warp tour, and we haven't seen each other in four years in person. But we've kept in touch online over those four years, and obviously that's more of a personal connection. Not a band to band connection. But I've been seeing what you post about the live in Barcelona. You know, you did the tour earlier this year and all that stuff and so seeing that regular content from you And this is something I'm bad at. As I post on Facebook, like once or twice a month for my personal page, I try to be more active for band.

I've stuff, but staying top of mind is really part of what this is about. Which, speaking of top of mind, hey, Monday just a couple weeks ago announced their reunion show show in 11 years. Yeah, I don't remember the details of it, but they are back for at least one show. Well, they're phenomenal. Hopefully they re unite and do like, a couple tours because anybody that hasn't seen Hey, Monday Live should definitely go see Hey, Monday life because they put on a killer killer live show. Yeah, I unfortunately did not get the chance to see them.

But maybe this time we'll see. Well, thanks to the Internet, you now have an open door. Exactly. Yeah, And that's really what this is about is the benefits of being visible online. It opens doors for you, and it opens doors for a few things which I think, Matt, you came up with these points. It's all years. Take him away. All right, you got it. The only thing. I love music. I'll be the first to say that music touches me in a way that I can't explain. Um, you know, if there was one thing that I could give to everybody or anybody, it would be what I hear when I hear music.

It literally gives me goose bumps. It touches my soul Now. That being said, the Mawr important thing is not that the music is touching my soul for my business. The most important thing is that my music is sustaining my lifestyle. The music's descending. My lifestyle comes from one thing. Making money. Now the hardest question to ask is, Well, how do you make money? Obviously, there's the obvious ones of playing shows live and, you know, selling your merchandise. This is really what I'm gonna be talking about is the selling your merch online?

So you need to have an online store when you have an online store. This is a place. It's a hub that you can direct anybody you know. I'm sure everybody has heard it a million times over it. Live shows. Oh, I don't have any money today. Oh, I left my wallet at home. Oh, I only buy music online. You know, everybody has a billion reasons to not pay your $5 for your album. Well, your online store is where you're basically going. You're going to cast this broad net, and you're gonna catch some of that fall through.

That didn't happen in your life shows. I believe in a episode James talks about the importance of marketing yourself even while you're on the stage and mentioning that, you know, if you have an instagram, if you have a Facebook, if you have an online store, you need to be talking about it because this is your largest retail platform. You need every single thing that you do to point to your merchandise. Your merchandise is what makes you money. Your money is what keeps you playing music, and so, and the more visible you are the mawr likely people are gonna be to purchase your purchase your product on DSO.

It's very important to have a nice looking store that is easily accessible that every single one of your social media platforms points to, you know, if you're just doing business with a Facebook, you're not doing enough. If you're just doing business with an Instagram, you're not doing enough like James was talking about earlier. If I can't type in the name of your band and possibly just add the word band after it, then your online presence is not enough. And you, as the artist, need to find a way to adapt out of that current situation.

Because your online presence is your biggest presence, you basically have the opportunity. You know, we all dreamed his little kids of playing shows in front of 100,000 people. Well, now, with the Internet, you have the opportunity thio distribute your music to these people and to sell them merchandise as well. That's the major benefit of being visible online. In recent years, a lot of really cool metrics have come out. A lot of awesome programs from some really big companies have come out and to really help us as touring artists as well.

So using Google pixel and Facebook pixel, these are These are programs that you can use to track your audience, and when I say track, what this means is it's going to give you detailed records of where people are listening to your music. Who is purchasing your merchandise and where they're purchasing it from now. The main reason that this is so useful is because when you set out to go on tour and you're not sure where to go, you have a place where you can look at your metrics and say, Hey, you know what?

I had 50 T shirt sales in San Diego, California, and I had 12 over in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and 15 in San Antonio, Texas. Well, now that can tell me that I have at least some sizable amount of fans and each one of those cities. So when I go to book my tours, not on Lee, do you have a good place to start? Ah, good place to market Thio. But then you also have a little bit of leverage when it comes to working with promoters working with venues, you can say, Hey, look here.

In my metrics, in the last three months, we've sold 50 T shirts in you know your area. So now when I come down, the promoters 10 times more likely to say, Well, yeah, I'll work with you. If your merchandise is selling this well online, I would imagine you're going to have quite a few people come out and purchased tickets from me. So in a sense, not only are you helping your band, your brand, your business, but you are also stimulating. The music economy is a whole. This is very important for every artist.

Most artists think that we're competing with each other, but we are not. Music lovers love music, and a rising tide raises all ships. There's another quote for you that's, I believe, JFK when we all bring each other up when we all, you know, support each other's online stores. When we all track with Facebook pixel, when we are all giving each other metrics, chances are the music lovers. They just want more music. And so you can use simple little tools like these, which are available to everybody, which most of them are free.

So if you wanna be putting your best foot forward, you need to be using them. Otherwise, you're just not competing. So you have to use these and these were going to be the keys that are really going to help sustain your business for a long, long time. If they're used correctly. Yeah, agreed, and for anybody who kind of has a reaction to the Facebook pixel or Google analytics. It's not any kind of like Big Brother stuff that we know everything about you all it literally is, is the Facebook pixel will.

If somebody goes to your site, they get this cookie called the Facebook pixel, and then you can advertise specifically to them. But you don't know who that person is like. You don't find out where they live or any of that stuff from the Facebook pixel itself. Google Analytics will tell you where people are viewing from how long they spent on the site, all that kind of stuff. But that data on Google analytics does not link up with Facebook pixel, so you will never have super stalker capabilities.

With this data, you have no way of harming anyone. It's innocent data that you just used to sell more efficiently. This is the data that marketing companies use when you get on online and you Google Ari I climbing gear and then you get on Facebook and you immediately see an advertisement about climbing gear from R E. I. That's using Facebook pixel. So at times it seems scary. But when used correctly. It's wonderful. Yeah, agreed. And I don't see any scenario where someone in a band could misused the Facebook pixel because Facebook has that locked down so tightly now, especially with all of the scandal is going around Facebook.

And there's always one. Yeah. On that note, you mentioned a podcast episode where I talked about pitching your merchandise and I was like, I don't remember that. Well, it's not a podcast episode. That was the second video I ever put on YouTube, which was literally a year ago. It was January of 2019. So it's probably an absolutely awful video compared Thio the content I put out later what we put out on this podcast. But if you want to watch that second awful YouTube video I ever did, it will be linked in the show notes at Bandhive dot rocks slash eight.

So, yeah, thanks for that throwback, because that really threw me for a loop and I was looking like Where did I talk about this? And I got all the way back to video to and like Oh, that's what it waas like. There's there's some sort of content that we talked about. It's been a long yeah that it has that it has. So, yeah, that was a great rundown on making money from your music online with other income sources because a lot of people don't really consider how much potential money there is just being online.

Which one thing I want to toss out there, too, is a lot of bands don't do online pre orders anymore. It's like Come on cell. A pretty order to put a bundle together. No joke. Infinite Signal, my friend's band from San Diego. They put out a pre order for their E P, which comes out. I want to stay around January 27 28. Something like that. And the cheapest bundle comes with a CD and a reusable water bottle. I thought that's really cool, like 15 bucks for a CD in a water bottle.

I'm gonna buy that, you know. Ah, lot of times I'll see like $20 for a CD and a shirt and was like, uh, I don't need another band shirt like I'd buy the CD by itself. But no band has ever tried to sell me for their cheapest bundle, a CD in a water bottle, So I purchased that instantly. It so happens that I need a new water bottle s So it was good timing on their part. But I I think creative bundles and pre sales like that really do make a huge difference.

So that's one thing under selling merch online that we should really encourage people to dio. And I think you would agree, judging by your reaction, man, that it's something that more people need to dio absolutely expanding on your point of, you know, bands kind of thinking out of the box, you know, like, don't be afraid. You know, marketing is the answer to everything. It is the only job anymore. And the biggest thing that you have to think about is like, what do big businesses Dio, Can you shop at Walmart Online?

Yes, you can. Does Wal Mart have black Friday deals? Yes, they do. Does Wal Mart run ad campaigns for specific things? Yes, they dio Alright, If these air things that major brands are doing, then there's a good chance that this is a lucrative thing to be in on. I know. I mean, you remember from years of warp tour. I couldn't tell you how many bands, and this was just face to face sailing. But, you know, in their sales and a one year we did at warp tour we sold a CD and a drawstring backpack because so many kids forget to bring a backpack to warp tour.

And instead of selling each item individually, we said You get this backpack and the CD for 10 bucks, which was really just the price of the album. And, ah, lot of the time we added in a value by Or Or we would change it and say, You know, it's $10 album and it comes with a free bag now. This appealed to every single one of these kids that wanted to pick up merchandise but didn't bring it back because they're gonna be standing there for 12 hours that day. And they didn't think about the fact that they want to go purchase merch and they don't have anything to carry it in.

They don't have a water bottle or a place to hold their water bottle. They don't have a place to hold their cell phone, you know, and so, like, it's up to you and how you're going to approach things, you know, like you said with a water bottle bundle that instantly made you purchase it. You as a band need to determine what value adds you're going to have with your merchandizing. That is going to be the things that really, you know, like you can have an album and this other guy can have an album.

What is going to make a non artist purchase your album? What sets you apart? And it might be your album art. It might be the person standing at your merch table. It might be how your merch table set up, or it might be that it comes with a free bottle of water. So it's up to you to kind of adapt out of a current situation and really maximize what you're doing. I agree it's all about thinking outside of the box and being creative to get someone's attention because that's all marketing is about is getting attention.

And there's so many different ways to do that that have already been done, some of them more effective than others. But people will typically go for something unique if they see something unique that they haven't ever discovered before. That catches their eye. And so that is definitely one very important thing to consider when you're doing your marketing for any release or just in general between releases to push your merch. So moving on to our next section, we're going to talk about how to be visible online. And really, what it comes down to is posting engaging content on a regular basis.

But this is an area where it's just not my expertise. So that's why we have you on the podcast, Matt. That is why you are one America host. Well, I'm happy to talk about it. So yes, being visible online. That's what we keep harping on on. The big question is how you mentioned posting engaging content. Now what does it mean to be engaging? This used to be, I believe Facebook used to call it the talking about number. You could see how many people were talking about this now.

The reason they were doing this is because whatever they were talking about was posting engaging content. Now that could be, ah, video. That could be a simple Facebook post that asks an open ended question like, Where do you think that we should tour. I'm sure that this is a question that you've seen all of your favorite bands ask on their personal social media's. And what this does is gets their dedicated fans to comment or like or interact. They're engaged with that post. So whenever you make a post that causes your audience to interact, that is an engaging post.

Ah, lot of the times you want to ask open ended questions that nurture some sort of response, and preferably if it calls a long response more than just one word, you know. So that question. Where do you want us to tour? You'll get a lot of Tulsa, Oklahoma, New York City. You know, Atlanta, Georgia and that's gonna be it. But if you say something more like, Wow, this last tour was a total blast. We had a ton of fun visiting all these new places, but there were a lot of places we ended up missing.

If you saw us, where did you see us? And if we didn't come to your city, what cities should we tour on the next tour? And so now you have this two level question to where it's going to engage with all of your fans. The ones who were at the shows will share their experiences, which ultimately will help all those fans that didn't get to share it, be a little bit more envious and be a little bit mawr. You know, they might pay a little closer attention to your tour dates, but then also it gets the people who aren't regularly engaging with your posts to chime in.

Now you might ask, Why is this important? The reason this is important is because Facebook throttles your posts on. What I mean by that is when you post you can have 100,000 followers, and on Lee, 100 of them will see it. And the reason is is because these people aren't regularly engaging with your posts. And so if you can build an audience of people that are regularly engaging with your posts, you are goingto have such a larger fan base. When you post your graphics of your merchandise and you say, Hey, we're doing a black Friday bundle and you've posted this right after you posted a couple open ended questions.

People have been interacting with your posts and so there's a much higher chance that it will appear in their newsfeed organically. You want as much organic reaches possible, and then as soon as your organic reach runs out, that's when you want to start paying toe advertise. You can see boosted posts on Facebook, these air another way that really help you be visible. But they can also be dangerous because if you do it prematurely, then you're literally just paying money to market to your already pre existing fan base.

When really what you need to do is engage people and essentially have them be your online street team and you do this. You know your videos, your photos, your open ended questions. And you really want to make sure you're doing stuff that feels organic. People don't want regurgitated content. And, you know, if you have serious questions to ask your fans, ask them. People want to be a part of your lives. That's why they're going to your Facebook anyway. As you do this, you're basically generating mawr and Mawr online content.

And as we all know, the first thing that we do when we discover a new artist is sift through every piece of content that they have. You hear a song from a band that you like. The first thing you gotta do is listen to their discography. You see a video from a band you like. The first thing you do is watch the other videos. So it's important to have a lot of content that engages in ah, very intimate manner. And with photos, you know, don't overuse the live photo.

Don't overuse videos, but make sure you are utilizing thing. You know, music videos are very powerful. So our live videos, a music video, is going to give the people that romantic idea of you, and then the live video is going to connect them to you. Everybody wants to be a part of what you're doing. And so the more that you can engage people online and be inviting and inclusive the more you bring people in, the better your post will dio. This is going to increase your online, reach your online presence and eventually your bottom line, your revenue.

I think those are all great points. Specifically, when you talked about boosting posts and advertising, can you talk a little bit about how the Facebook pixel that you talked about earlier ties into that just so people who never heard of it before have ah, better understanding of how it works to target people. Absolutely so Facebook pixel. And you can learn Ah, lot about Facebook pixel with a simple Google. Um, it's a little bit confusing at first, but basically so with engaging your fans, your developing and engaged audience, then with Facebook pixel, you can basically use Facebook pixel thio.

Target all of those people specifically and sell your merchandise directly to them. So instead of paying, you know, instead of like a commercial where a company pays, ah broadcast system to put a commercial out and whoever watches it watches it Wonderful. Well, now you can actually use Facebook, Pixel says. Oh, all of these people were visiting your Facebook page. Well, now you can use Facebook pixel to take your black Friday bundle or to take your brand new merchandise and design, take your preorder bundle and say, I want to market directly to the people who visited my Facebook page.

And so instead of casting a broad net, you know, in hopes that you're gonna catch a fish, it's saying, No, I would like to put one line in the water for each fish that is hungry. Essentially, it's knowing which fish are biting, and that's the power of Facebook. Pixel as a marketing tool, is that it goes directly to the people who are already interested in your brand. I think that's a great way to put it, and to maybe translate that into something that's just a tad easier for people to understand about.

Broadcast is, for example, on broadcast. You can target things to a certain extent, like, you know, the demographic of who watches the Super Bowl or, you know, the demographic of who watches like an afternoon soap opera. But you can't 100% target people who care about your brand. So the Facebook equivalent of that would be you can advertise posts to people who follow bands that sound like you. So, for example, for a live in Barcelona, or you could target bands like Falling in Reverse or other Ault rock bands.

But that's not going to be as effective as if you do what you're talking about, which is just targeting people who actually have shown interest in your band. I hope that that's a little simpler for people to understand what you said was already very easy to understand. Much more technical, though, and I like that you I mean, I like things to be practical. You could basically just think of it as like, if you have a number one fan, what would you think is easier? Is it easier for you to make a new fan and sell them all of your stuff or to sell all the stuff that you have to your number one fan?

Yeah, I don't remember the statistics on that, but it's something like cost, like three or four times as much to sell to a new customer, which is what your fans are their customers. That costs you to sell to an existing customer. Absolutely. And on a side note, I would actually encourage everyone to watch the YouTube video, The 1000 True Fans theory. This is, Ah, theory that basically all it takes is 1000 true fans to sustain your music career for your entire life, and it goes into detail and describes what a true fan is.

But it really talks about the strength of marketing to your existing audience and really. You know, repeat, business is the best business because these are also the people that are going to spread your brand by word of mouth. You know, every time you put out a new shirt, they're gonna buy it. When you do $100 meet and greet, you know, pizza party and you get a piece of emerged these air, the three people that are gonna buy that across the country, you know? And the more of these you have, the better it's gonna be.

So I definitely encourage any and all starting artists to watch the 1000 True fans theory agreed. And again, that's one of those things that it will be in the show Notes band. I've got rocks slash eight. So moving on to which platforms Almost any artist could start with, and I say, almost because it's not one size fits all. There might be something specific to your band like you might be really good at using ticktock or some other Gen Z stuff that I have no clue about. And I'm only 26 but Gen z tick talker beyond me.

But the one platform that I think absolutely every band with zero exceptions should have, no matter how will you do on other platforms is a website. Amen. That is where you can pixel people. That is the easiest way you installed Facebook pixel code on your website and you pixel people when they go to your site. That's also super easy for SCL, which is search engine optimization, which, personally, I don't think bands have to do too much to the extent that you're not gonna be competing with people googling like best small portable blender like ASL Ong as people can google your name and find your site.

In my opinion, that's good enough. You don't have to come up when people search number one rock band of all time because and I don't mean this in a bad way. But chances are you're not the number one rock band of all time or if you are, you already naturally have that ranking on Google. Now, out of curiosity, I'm going to Google this on see what comes up. We have the Rolling Stone list of 100 greatest artists, the spin ditty 10 greatest rock bands of all time and the Business Insider 100 most popular rock bands of all time.

So no band actually has that space on Google. They are all other things. Anyway, There are lists. Yeah, exactly. That's not something you need to strive for. As long as people concert your name and find you, that's fine. Ideally, people don't have to add the word band at the end. But if they dio you know what, It's okay. Like if you have a common name, if you like ice pick band, sure, like people are gonna search ice pick and they're not gonna find your music. But they should be able to search ice, pick music or ice pick band and find you.

That's it. And to kind of touch on that, because I'm from a branding background. If you have a name like ice pick, you have a bad band name, and it's not because ice pick is a bad band name. It's because you are now competing with an inanimate object you are now competing with. Like there's a good chance that somebody out there is going to make an app called ice pick as well. Because those short, easy to remember names are used a lot. A lot of the time in software.

You know, that's why bands like Jimmy Eat World is amazing. That's a great band name. Nothing but Jimmy. Eat World stuff will come up when you type in Jimmy Eat World. Nothing is going to come, you know, when you type in the Rolling Stones short of the magazine, which I'm sure that they make a ton of money off of royalties because that's a licensing deal, which we'll talk about later. But, you know, short of that, you're on Lee going to find, you know, like I guarantee in the top five posts, paint it Black is going to be there and it's because, you know they've successfully branded and they've used these online tools to basically create the largest possible revenue stream that they can.

Yeah, and I say on that note, it doesn't even have to be that obviously, ice pick one of my favorite bands of all time and one of the first bands I actually got to work with on a professional level was a f I American Film Institute, like they're literally people who I'll say I'm going to the F I show and then, like American Film Institute has a show. I'm like, No. Like the band? No. And Ah, Fire inside. Yeah, Or anthems. Fernan Subordinates if you're old school uh, there several other names which we shall not mentioned on this podcast.

But you can go find them. They're out there. You know, if I Google f I, it'll probably come up with the band because I've Googled them before. So the first result a fi dot com is the American Film Institute. The second result is a Fi, The Missing Man, E P a Fire inside dot Net. So there you go. And in the third result is their Wikipedia page. Not the film institute Wikipedia page, but the band. But that is probably because I see the link here is purple and I've clicked on it before.

I've been to that page before, And so it is interesting, though, going down through here. Aside from that first result, everything on the first page of Google is the band f I. But the number one result is still the American Film Institute. That is an S e o problem for a f i. There should be no doubt about what people are searching for and I have the feeling that when they were kids back in California in the nineties, they probably didn't know what a f I is or didn't care what the FBI is because in the nineties, people didn't think about this.

But if you were starting a band now you absolutely have to make sure that your name is memorable. Easy to spell that is very important. Easy to spell and won't compete. Absolutely. One example of a band that I recently worked with on a song for them is zebra Libera I, Congar Inti, that they do not have any competition for S e O. Because what is a zebra libera? And who is ever going to search for that? Unless they're looking for that specific band, No joke. So props to them for coming up with a name that is unique, creative and memorable Zebra liberal like That's a cool name.

But you can't forget zebra libera and you're definitely going to see a name like zebra libera on a bill. Yeah, like I can see it on a show fire already, like, come out, check out tenacious D each on zebra Libra. You know it like it is very characteristic of a brand. Yeah, and it rhymes that makes it catchy. If you think about it in those two words, the Onley sound that is different as the first continent because they both end in IBRA. So that's two continents that rhyme not just the last part of the word, but those two continents rhyme in both words.

That's impressive. They did very well, and I have to say, I don't know honestly, if that was intentional, but either way they did very well with that, and I hope it brings them lots of success. So shout out to Zebra Libera. If you want to check out their song Clarify. They just released a video for that little plug. It was November, so it'll be two months ago by the time this episode drops. But that will also be in the show notes at Band I've got rocks slash eight.

So moving on, aside from having a website, one thing that you absolutely need to have on your website, aside from Facebook pixel and Google Analytics, is Shopify or some other alternative to that toe. Have your merch online, depending on where you build your site, Wickes has a great built in store, which is something else that will be a band. I've got rocks slash eight. I talked to the band Pickwick Commons earlier this year last year. By the time this comes out again, and they use the Wicks store app to manage their inventory and sell merch at their shows because Wickes has a mobile app allowing small businesses to track your online inventory and then you can sell directly from that inventory, which a lot of smaller touring bands have one set of inventory.

It's not like you have a warehouse inventory natori inventory, and you can use that app to sell your stuff. It shows. And it's a point of sale system that is a perfect integration in my mind. You don't need to have a separate system for the online Web store and a separate system for at your shows. For any band that doesn't have a separate inventory, I think that's great. But that is, of course, Onley available. If you're on Wix, if you're on WordPress or Squarespace or anything else like that, personally, I typically use wordpress.

If I were to have a store, I would have to install a third party plug in something like blue commerce. Or I would have to link to a Shopify store on the Shopify platform. Or there's a cafe press t spring. But I wouldn't recommend those two for most bands unless it was a very specific situation. Yeah, if you want to avoid having 15 different Softwares that you're using in orderto make things simple, I would definitely recommend Wicks is, well, just because the online integration for your both your point of sale system and your inventory is huge.

Plus, keeping track of inventory manually is a pain. Yeah, and I'll be honest. Hosting on Wix costs a little more, but it's easy, and it works. It's not like with WordPress. If something goes wrong, it's up to you to figure it out. Fix it with Wix. If something goes wrong, you send them an email and they will either tell you how to fix it or they will fix it for you now and when he says hosting is more expensive, fear not, because hosting is cheap. Yes, so it's just mawr expensive on Wix, all right, I mean, what is Wicks annually?

I think it's like 17 a month so annually. It's probably a little cheaper. I mean, that's one T shirt sold online per month, so yeah, exactly. It's a no brainer. WordPress hosting would be like 5 to $10. So we're talking anywhere from 100% down to 50% more, but peace of mind and just having it be easy. I've been using WordPress for, like 10 years, and that's why I use it. But if I were starting over now, I would probably just go with Wix. Honestly, it just makes sense to do that unless you have some crazy need that weeks can't do.

But weeks could do pretty much anything that you need is a band. So why choose anything else? Don't over complicate your life, go the easier route and choose Wicks Well said, Thank you. Next there are a couple of platforms that you really should be on and those air Facebook and Instagram and in my opinion, and I think you'd agree, Matt, it is best to choose one of these, probably Instagram, and have that one be your primary social media account. And that is where you put 85 to 90% of your focus and then the other one, most likely Facebook.

You'll still keep it updated, but it won't have quite a much content as the Instagram. Or maybe the content on there is copied from Instagram. But you're primarily trying to engage your audience on Instagram because that's where people live these days. That is the big app at the moment for our generation. Just to put it into perspective. Instagram is the largest marketing platform on the planet, and it is used Bye, basically every major product designer on the planet, you know? I mean, if you want to go by the Kardashians new makeup line, you can find it on Instagram, you know, And so, like just to put it into perspective, even these giants of the products and services industry are using this.

And so, in order for you to compete, you also need to be using this. 100% agreed. And what I want to point out about Facebook is that the demographic is getting older and older. Younger people are switching to alternate platforms like Instagram. So one caveat to this is, if you are targeting an older audience, Facebook might be the place for you But unless that's the case, you're probably gonna have better luck on Instagram. At least that's my big picture take of the two platforms right now. That being said to have a brand profile on Instagram, it does have to be linked to a Facebook page.

So no matter what, you're gonna have to have a Facebook. If you want to focus on Instagram, where the brand account, which I highly recommend, because that is what gives you the insights and the data that you can't have on a personal instagram page. And that's something that you want to track. And we'll have to do an episode on that as well about the key performance indicators. Okapi ice for your different social media platforms in your website and all that kind of stuff. So one thing to mention, because we are talking about posting engaging content like photos and videos.

Instagram originally was all about photos, and that was all you could dio. Facebook for a while has supported videos, and Instagram, thankfully, does do that now. But unless you post it as an instagram TV video, it will Onley post in 62nd clips, and you'll have to put them together. And people have to like, swipe through, which could be kind of frustrating for people and doesn't really give the full immersive experience that a music video shit, in my opinion, absolutely. That's actually one of the big reasons that I am pro YouTube.

You know, YouTube is a wonderful platform that is monetized. It is, has a massive, massive market. It's a great platform for delivering quality music videos behind the scenes, live videos, whatever you really want to the platform and the more video content that you have, the better it is. You should definitely all have a brand YouTube page as well. These air really going to help you keep your videos organized? It's a centralized hub, you know, with Facebook, you're gonna have a bunch of post. You're gonna have show flyers with Instagram you're gonna have behind the scenes picks and things like that.

It's important to have a one centralized hub for all of your video content and considering the fact that YouTube is free and it also offers metrics as well, the fact that you can actually have people subscribe directly to your channel is a huge, huge thing, and those subscriptions are much better than your typical Facebook follow button or your you know, your Twitter follow button or your instagram follow button. Because when a video comes out, they actually get a notification. They actually have a link. And these air you know, it's a It's a great thing that after you have ah, can't remember exactly what their formula is.

But once you have a certain number of subscribers and plays than your pages, a lot to be monetized. And then the more content you put out, the more money you make. And this is all stuff that you know. This is your content making money for you. So once it's there, it's making money. And that's the best kind of money to make. Yeah, it's at that point passive income. You put the video out there, and you know you should add new content whenever possible as long as it's good content because quality over quantity.

But once it's out there, if your channel is monetized, which I think the cut off is, AH 1000 followers and 4000 hours currently I might have that backwards. I can't remember for sure, but it's something like that and that sounds really high, but it's really not. That is achievable. If you market it properly, you can pull it off. So I would definitely encourage people that you need to have a YouTube. That's what you're saying is spot on, Matt. That's the platform people need. And the thing is, you know, one thing that I think both James and I kind of wanna harp on and hit home is that you know these air, a lot of them, like like with marketing.

There's no golden rule. You know, I might market on Facebook and you might market on Facebook, and we both do it the same way, and your product goes 10 times further. You know, there are multiple avenues. Soundcloud is actually one that I have been hearing a lot about recently. Ah, lot of rappers, a lot of solo artists and even some bands I've heard of using Soundcloud Thio broaden their audiences well, which has worked wonderfully. And I've even heard of some top to your artists who got their start simply by peddling soundcloud.

So you know, when we're talking about these platforms that you need to use, there's no golden rule, but you should definitely have a website that has a store, and then every other platform that you have basically should be a lead funnel that points to that store. You're not making money on Facebook. You're not making money on INSTAGRAM. You might be making money on YouTube, but probably not for a while. But you will make money from your online store, so all of these things essentially should be promoting your online store.

Everything should point to your revenue stream. And if everything points to your revenue stream, if everybody follows that rabbit trail and gets down to where they spend money on your product, that's how you're going to make the most money in the long term. And that should be your end goal. Everything is promoting that, Ah, live show. Great if you make money from it but a live shows to sell your merch. That's really what it is and to promote your music. To an extent, that's what it used to be.

His artists would tour to get their music out there, but now the Internet, it has shifted so much that you use the Internet to promote your tour and get people to your shows and then use your shows to sell your merch. Absolutely. So this has been the shift we've seen in the last 20 years or so. What used to be the big moneymaker for artists now is not, but they're using that former moneymaker Thio start their sales slump. Well, that's another episode in the books. Thank you so much, Thio each and every one of you for listening.

It really means a lot to us that you are here after eight episodes. We hope that you really enjoy these episodes and please feel free to let us know what you think. We try to be as accessible as possible so you can email us. My email is James at Band. I've dot rocks or just hop into our Facebook group, which can be found at Band. I've dot rocks slash group and let us know what your thoughts are. If you have questions or ideas for topics were open to whatever feedback you may have for us.

Thanks again for listening. I hope you all have an awesome week and keep rocking