[00:00:00] Welcome to episode 148 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross, and I'm here with Matt Hoos of alive in Barcelona. It's been a while, but I am super stoked to have you back, Matt, how have you been doing

You know, man, I am doing pretty darn well, it's been a long year, so far to say the least. But we're still trucking. We're still uh, pushing through the uh, proverbial snow. And hopefully starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel, I'm planning, God's laughing.

So we'll see. But as of today, things are.

I'm glad to hear that. And you know, super exciting news for your band. You just released a new single a couple weeks ago. Now, granted, this episode comes out four weeks from yesterday. So it'll be a while, but you've been busy this year. That's why you haven't been around.

Totally understandable. So why don't you tell us the story so far?

So yeah, we are uh, in the process of releasing a few more tracks you know, everything with COVID kind of slowed the whole world down and uh, especially when it came to getting all into the same place for recording new material luckily, you know, we're on an awesome [00:01:00] label that was really patient with us and, you know, said, Hey, when the time is right, you guys stream really well.

So uh, when the planet's aligned we'll get you back in the studio and we'll do what you can. So we went and recorded four songs. We'll be releasing those one by one with music videos at this point, but parasite we'll already be out. please go give parasite a watch and a listen and let us know what you think.

we're pretty excited about that one. And there's some more fun ones to come. Aside from that in my personal life, I also had a little baby girl,

Congratulations. Huge

Thank you, child. Number three. So very, very ecstatic about that. my boys have a little sister and my little girl has big brothers to keep her nice and safe, even though she'll probably be the one bossing them around anyway.

Aside from that AIB we've been. Trying to hit it in a responsible manner. So that way we can still be releasing content and still moving forward and making sure that we're making good on our contractual obligations with our [00:02:00] record label, while maintaining good relationships with our PR companies and things of that nature.

But really these, next few weeks and months should be some fun stuff. And hopefully we'll uh, get a little bit of traction here with these singles and uh, hopefully that'll reinvigorate some of the fans and really give us a chance to put some new music out there and, and tug on some heartstrings.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I checked out parasite already, you know, it was sent to me a couple weeks ago before it dropped and really loved the track. And that's in a way, what led to us reconnecting since I reached out was like, Hey, get track, man. You said I'm ready to come back. So I said, let's do it. So good stuff there.

And I'm looking forward to hearing the rest. I know there's a few more in the works. So looking forward to that and we will, of

stoked to release him.

listeners, posted on what's going on with live in Barcelona. much as we should have a whole episode about alive in Barcelona, at some point we'll get you and your uh, your. Band self manager, Jesse, who is a super cool dude. He used to tour manage[00:03:00] big rock acts on the show. That's not what we're here to talk about this week. This week we're gonna have an episode inspired by a band leader I'm not gonna name names by request of the person who told me about this, but it was a band leader who didn't communicate their expectations for their band mates in a healthy manner and got very passive aggressive.

And in fact, quit the band. And then another member of the band begged that band leader to come back. And those two conspired to kick out the rest of the members from the band because they quote unquote, weren't doing enough. And that is just, so low. Like essentially what happened is band leader would say, Hey, I feel like people in the band aren't doing enough.

They wouldn't be specific about what and people would say, well, what would you like us to do? And the band leader would say, there's nothing we can do about it. Just like people in general, aren't doing enough. Like, okay, well, if I'm not doing something that you want me to [00:04:00] do, please tell me, no, no, no, it's fine.

It's fine. Don't worry about it. And then after two or three years of that just kicked everyone out for quote unquote, not doing enough, but it's like, well, what do you expect? You didn't communicate your expectations. You didn't say, can you please do this? Would you mind doing that?

if you're just passive aggressive about it and you don't communicate in a healthy manner, that band is gonna fall apart. And I don't really have any hope for the future of that band because word's gonna get around. We've all seen it where the band announces that everyone except one or two people has been kicked out.

that's never a good look. And those bands typically don't do so well after that. I mean, I guess you could say breaking Benjamin, they're still doing okay. They had a situation like that. But most bands, if there's a mass Exodus at one time that doesn't work, you know, if the band changes over time, whatever, like real big fish, great band, there's like seven people in that band.

And only the singer has been in the band for the whole time. [00:05:00] But I don't know if there's a time where six people left the band at once. It's been like, oh, one person here to one person there. know, it just kind of over time shifts

I'll be really curious to hear a skylight drives new material. Cause there are no original members. the oldest member in the band is JAG. I've had the pleasure of hearing some of their new material and I really enjoy it.

I've always liked to skylight drive and the newest stuff definitely is really good. And I'll be really interested to hear kind of how they uh, hit the ground running with the new material, because even Ja was a replacement from their original singer and then one by one, the other bandmates left but it was kind of sad to see them one by one fall off. And I think Nick was the last remaining member besides JAG. And Nick was an original member. I met Nick when he was like 17 years old, one of the first concerts I ever went to. So for me, it was kind of sad to see those things happen.

But since then they've kind of bounced back and, excited to see what they have. So I think there'll be a really good case study for kind of what happens in a band when [00:06:00] you've slowly but surely replaced each and every member. And if they still have the capacity to sound the same while, uh, sounding fresh at the same time,

Yeah, absolutely. And especially, you know, thinking about with the skylight drive. If I recall earlier this year, weren't there two skylight drives both claiming to be the real skylight drive.

there were.

That's a mess. And that's like, gonna talk about an infamous band here. Great white, you weren't alive 19 years ago, I think it was, I think it was 2003, the fire down in Providence, Rhode Island.

that tragedy, that was great white, but it wasn't great white because there were two separate bands called great white and one of them was. Great white. And the other one was like Jack something. I forget name of the singer. And it was Jack something's great white.

so the whole band had kind of split into two separate bands.

And I just saw this is fresh in my mind because they played Vermont yesterday. Or maybe they're playing tonight. I can't remember at the champin valley fair. And I was like, wait, they're still [00:07:00] around. Like, were like a sea level rock band back in the eighties when they were big. And they're still going, even though they had that tragedy, which to be fair.

I think the one playing from Vermont is not the one that caused the fire still though. No matter what, the fact that band is still going, even though they split and literally like have two competing bands with the same music and the same name, it works out for some of them. So it's skylight drive might be playing like the summer.

County fair circuit in 20 years, you know? and we've seen that with Smashmouth. They were doing the county fair circuit, which was interesting. I saw them a few years ago in LA doing a free show at the Grove and it was fun. I wouldn't have paid to go see him, but Smashmouth for free, like, duh, I'll be there.

absolutely who wouldn't want to go see uh, a rockstar,

I know exactly. it's a band. You just have to believe I'm a believer. What can I

I'm a believer too. Uh,

It's good to have you back, man. I

bad jokes right there. it's not a good podcast unless there's a bad joker two

[00:08:00] exactly, exactly. Am the comedic relief. And Matt is the one who keeps me on track here. Most podcasts like the host is the. person who keeps things on track. And obviously we're both, co-hosts here. Like I'm not trying to say I'm the host and Matt's the guest or anything, but Matt keeps me on track.

So thank you for doing that. have

I'm the rambler. So that's, really bad.

isn't that a Tom petty song or something like that. it's part of the joker, right? Doesn't he go? Like I'm a joker and then one of the next verses is he's a rambler.

Uh, Maybe, maybe in that, I don't know. I think that one's, I'm a joker, I'm a smoker. I'm a midnight choker. I'm a blah, blah. I don't even know. I don't know. There's so many, good song lyrics to choose from some, some of the time that the puns just slowly, but cheerly waft over my head and it's like, I can only grab so many at a time.

I'm not sure you uh, you caught my story so far punt.

I did hear you say the story so far.

Okay, good, good.

I did, of course, Ts SF, who could forget? So say that guy didn't wear a shirt ever. I've never seen their lead singer with a [00:09:00] shirt on

Really, huh? I guess he just wanted to show off his cannons.

Yeah, probably

Am I thinking of the right guy? Parker cannon.

I think so. I think, I, I think that's who it is. that's worth it. Google

been in drop kick Murphy's if that's the right artist drop kick, cuz he kicked people off stage.

Yeah, literally.

way too much here. We're gonna get to the actual topic cuz we're like 10 minutes into this episode.

in this episode, we're gonna talk about five general categories to maintain a healthy band relationship and band dynamic. So Matt, do you wanna just let people know what those five categories are and then go ahead and dive into the first.

Absolutely. So you all of these kind of overlap know, you're gonna. Hear some reoccurring themes in them, it's kinda like that they really do cascade. and as a part of building quality relationships with your bandmates, all of these things are interlaid. most important one in my opinion is healthy communication.

You know, if you're not talking with your mates, then you are not getting anything [00:10:00] done. of us are mind readers. So it's important to have healthy communication. Mutual respect is another really big one. This bleeds past the healthy communication, but it cannot exist without healthy communication.

I don't know how to respect you if I don't understand the expectations that exist in our relationship. And so mutual respect is just something that absolutely has to exist. And that starts with being open and honest with each other. Now, the next one, which is another, just. hit it out of the park.

One is empathy and patience. Now these are really, your working emotions and these are things that you have to try some people have this passively and naturally kudos to you, hats off to you. They're wonderful. Me. I'm empathetic. empathy kind of comes naturally to me.

Patience does absolutely not come naturally to me. I much so, eh, I'm an instant gratification type of person. when I need something to get done I'm self starting. so I tend to go get it done as quick as possible. And sometimes that works really well for me.

[00:11:00] Sometimes that really hurts me. in building relationships, you know, empathy and patience is really about letting go of yourself and trying to put yourself into their shoes. And it's a part of communication as well. If you communicate well, you can actually empathize with somebody.

If you communicate well, you can actually be patient with them because you have clear set expectations and you guys have mutual respect, which brings us to another one realistic expectations. Again, this is a subset of healthy communication. If you don't set realistic expectations, clear expectations, then there's no possible way for anybody to know.

I can't empathize with you. If I don't understand what you're expecting, I can't be patient with you. If I don't know what you're expecting, you can't be empathetic and patient with me, if you don't know what I'm expecting, and none of those things can happen without us communicating well open, honestly, being straightforward to the point.

those are all really important. And then one of my personal favorites and everybody's personal favorite is fun time. fun time is a really important part of being in a band because[00:12:00] you have all this work that you're doing together. And most of us have set out to join bands with people that we, enjoy spending time with them.

And it's important not to sacrifice the fun things that you do together for a working relationship. Because name one person that doesn't get tired of going to work. We all, do we all get tired of going to work? And the thing is, is sometimes we take that out on our coworkers and when you have good quality relationships with people, those quality relationships start to deteriorate over time.

And so fun time is a really important thing to have. really it's all about a working relationship and that working relationship expands beyond the four walls of your business. It bleeds over into your personal lives. It bleeds past saying, you know, Hey, can you write up these answers to these interview questions?

It bleeds over into saying, Hey, do you wanna go get dinner? Or, Hey, there's a comedy show next so we will unpack all these one by one. I think we're gonna go ahead and start with probably in my opinion, [00:13:00] what is really the most important one in terms of, of business and that is healthy communication, James, take it away.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree that healthy communication is the most important, just because this is the foundation for all of the other things. And just to use an example going back to fun time, healthy communication, some people out there don't realize that if somebody's asking you to like, Hey, let's go do X, Y, Z.

They're not asking you to go do X, Y, Z. They're asking you to hang out. So if you can't do that, it's really good. If you want to, to say, Hey, I can't do that, but do you wanna do something on this other day? Instead, some people don't realize that. And that's just part of communication that isn't always overtly there.

what I like to do is if I'm reaching out to someone, obviously this is somebody like a friend who I know, like they like hanging out with me and vice versa, I'll say, Hey, if you're interested. Let's do this. Otherwise, let me know when you're available, [00:14:00] and that way they're like, oh, it's not just that he wants to go see this show.

It's like, he's trying to hang out because some people don't have that connection of like, it's less about the activity and more about hanging out.

Now it's a two way street. So Matt, you put a great point in here. A team leader needs to have clear expectations that are very well defined and they need to explain that to the other members, but the other members also need to make their expectations clear. So if they have family events that are coming up, they need to say, Hey, three months from now, I have this coming up.

And so something like a shared calendar works really well for this to have that communication where everyone is on the same page about availability. And this is just one example, but that's a two way street, the leader of the band, because ultimately even if everything in the band is a democracy, there's probably one person, who's the project manager of sorts or the Booker or whatever title you wanna give them.

They're in charge of that. So saying, Hey everyone, if it's not on this [00:15:00] calendar and we book a show, you are expected to be there. I apologize if you forget to put something on the calendar, I'm just making this clear that it needs to be on the calendar. Now, obviously, if something pops up last minute, like a funeral, totally understandable.

go take that time. But if your second cousin's sister's wedding is all of a sudden popping up three days before, because you forgot about it. Dude, you're not going to that. Like we booked this show three months ago, you should have had it on the calendar. And the fact that you forgot about it for that long just shows that it's not that important to you, so you can skip it.

it's your second cousin's sister. Like I guess your second cousin's sister would also be your second cousin. That was for example,

Second cousin's stepsister.

Okay. There we go. There we go. now having weekly meetings and this is a great point, man. I had suggested putting monthly on here, but I like weekly because this is something that a friend of mine [00:16:00] does with his wife.

And they've been together for like 10 years. They have three kids. so Matt, I'm sure you can relate with them already cuz you also have three

absolutely.

every week. They sit down to have a chat and check in on how their relationship is doing. and what they do is they have to say at least one positive thing that they liked that the other person did that week.

And then they can say one, but only one thing that has irritated them that week. And so it should obviously be like, whatever the biggest thing they have on their chest is, you know, and if they wanna say more positive things after that, they can, but they can only say one negative thing that frustrates the partner and it should always be in a constructive way.

as an example, like let's say somebody didn't take out the trash, it would be like, Hey, you know, it really frustrates me that I'm the one who takes out the trash every day. And you know, I work all day. Do you think you could take it out every other day? Like it should be constructive and offer a resolution and not just like, oh, you never take out the trash.

[00:17:00] That's again, part of healthy communication, you need to openly communicate. And if you can suggest resolution and see if that's agreeable to both parties.

if you boil this down to what it actually is, you're setting goals. Tying into that empathy in patients that we'll be talking about later, if you can't set clear goals that you're working towards collectively, and you can't talk about them, then there's no way that you can be empathetic or patient with, you know, your band mates, your, your partner, your, kids, or with anything there, there's no such thing as a relationship when you actually can't communicate.

I started off, I worked in fast food. I remember having meetings about what our goals were, did I own anything in the company? No, I was like 15. didn't even understand what, what a goal was. I didn't understand what net and gross and blah, blah, but this, you know, I didn't understand what all these analytics they were looking at, but you know what I did notice, I did see the big, giant thermometer in the back wall that we would color in when we would get closer to a store.

[00:18:00] And I did see the incentive posted next to that to say, oh, if we hit these goals, we'll treat everybody to a pizza party or we'll have, an extra awesome Christmas party this year. even though I didn't understand the business side of things, it allowed me have a tangible goal in my mind that overlaid with their tangible goal.

So you don't even have to always be like, Hey everybody, I've got 45 interview questions. We have 75 liner notes that we have to do. I need to make sure that I push this uh, radio PR thing. And it's like, what if your uh, basis doesn't do any of that in the band? Well, he's not necessarily the one that you need to go to about all this stuff, but that doesn't mean that you can't say like, Hey guys, you're really good at online marketing. So I wanna push this to a thousand impressions. I want a thousand people to click on this link and maybe that's something that your designated social media person will understand, versus like, oh your singer, who doesn't [00:19:00] do the social media stuff.

Maybe he doesn't understand that, but there are ways when you can all collectively come together and make common goals and set clear expectations, and then finding a good way for you all to achieve those together. maybe person a doesn't ever do what person B, or person C do, but you're all working towards a collective goal.

And so you have to find a way to kind of incentivize each other It's gonna be different for everybody. for me personally, like you were saying, James, a shared calendar works great.

I don't operate well off of calendars. I don't operate well with tech tech in general is just like, not my thing. I like people, people are my thing. I understand the computer inside of our head. I do not understand the computer that's sitting in front of me. James, I'm sure that you know that with all the frustration and, and things that you've had to coach me through through the years and even just being able to set up a podcast.

I do really well by just talking with somebody, even when we did this, we chatted, we said, Hey man, I've got some time. I'd love to do a podcast. You said, great. I think you sent me like an invite. I think you sent me some emails. I don't think I opened a single [00:20:00] one of them until this morning when we set down to do this, because that's not how I operate.

and you know what, never once has James said, Matt, you never accept my invites to, the podcast. And so it doesn't ever. Put it on the calendar, you know, and, that's always my bad, that's me being lackadaisical and not, challenging myself and that's a way for me to set a personal goal as well, but that's also James and I developing a working relationship because you want me to be on the podcast so that I can talk, that's my strong suit and I need you to be the tech guy

here's the thing though. Matt, you have never once ghosted on a scheduled recording. So I don't care if you don't open those emails. If you didn't show up, I would be like, Hey dude, we have a problem. But the only times you've ever not showed up was communicated in advance. Like, Hey man, I'm really sick.

Or Hey, like, can we reschedule? I just got a job for today. stuff like that. I'm fine with [00:21:00] that. for me, I work from home. I run my own schedule. So I'm super flexible. I know you don't have that flexibility, especially with the three kids. because you communicate openly and healthily, I'm fine with it.

I empathize with your situation. I don't have kids on my own. I can see how crazy your life gets when you have one kid let alone three. And here's the other thing about this? Not to kind of toot my own horn here, but if I were like a jerk about it being like, no, we can't reschedule.

You have to record when you're sick. I don't think you'd be on this podcast anymore. Cuz you'd be like, dude, you suck. I'm not doing this.

would certainly be easier to leave, you know,

exactly. And I'm just happy that, you know, after seven or eight months, however long it's been, you said, Hey, I wanna come back on the show.

that made me really happen. I was like, okay, cool. Like this is great. Clearly I'm doing something right. That Matt wants to come back. So I was really happy about that, but that kind of goes into the next Aw, thanks Matt. I love you too, man. But that goes into our next point perfectly because it's [00:22:00] having an open door policy.

Which allows band members to freely communicate their feelings and actively listening to the person speaking and acknowledging that you're hearing them. And like, Matt, I know, you had some family stuff going on in the last year or so, and I'm not gonna dig deep into that cuz you that's your private family stuff, the same thing happened with Aaron too.

He had some family stuff going on. I was like, Hey, you know what, it's chill. If you gotta take time, go do it. Aaron and I, we actually hung out the other day Saturday it's like five days ago we went flying, which by the way, Matt, I got my pilot's license two

Whoa, dude. It's been okay. Okay. So how long have you alright. side trick. when,

I got it on July 7th.

okay, so and how many private flights have you done now?

Let's see here So I have done 59.7 total hours of which uh, 33.9, where by myself or with passenger after I got the license. 22.2 hours of solo time. So that was before I got the license or it was without a passenger.

And then [00:23:00] once I got the license, I got the next like 11 and a half hours

Congratulations, man. I'm proud of you. you've been working towards that for a long time. That's so cool for those of you who don't know, James is a uh, aviation nerd. he literally has a monitor speaker.

That is an all, what is it? 7 47 speaker or 7 37.

7 37 I believe. And I actually sent that to uh, a client of mine as a Christmas gift. So I don't have it anymore. I have more speakers, but I don't have like the box that's built. I have to do that at some point.

All right. Next time. I'm over on your side of the country. You're taking me flying

oh, absolutely. we just gotta hope for good weather.

we'll make good weather. I'll figure it out.

yes, we will. Anyway, so I took Aaron up flying, ironically. He used to live an hour away from me, and then as soon as the pandemic hit, he moved to the same town. And so we've seen each other like three times in the last two years. I was just like, dude, like, I wanna take you flying. Let's go.

So we went up for a flight and uh, he loved it and had I reacted poorly when he said he needed family time, we probably wouldn't be friends [00:24:00] anymore. But because I said, Hey, I totally understand you got family stuff going on. You gotta back out of the podcast. That's fine by me. Family comes first and a lot of people say that, like, working at a fast food restaurant or something.

They say, oh, family comes first. But we need you to work, from 2:00 AM to 10:00 AM, even though the funeral is at 11:00 AM. Is that gonna work for you cuz otherwise you're not gonna work for us anymore. family comes first, so we'll schedule you around that, but you gotta pull an overnight right

all about the, the Dominic Totto approach I'm a family man.

For

so anyway,

who haven't seen one of the billion Fest and the furious movies, that's pretty much all VIN diesel ever says is he just talks about family.

I I have never seen any of the 20 ish movies they've put

ah, it's at least 20 at this point.

yeah. Oh, they've done so many sequels. how many times can you watch a car blow up? That's my.

Honestly they just get more crazy. Awesome. I think in the last one, do[00:25:00] drove a car off a cliff and then, but was like running along the car and then like jumped off the car to like grab somebody else's hand. I mean, it's like, it's about as much overt action as you can possibly have while completely defying all of the laws of physics at the same time.

It's pretty amazing

totally an action packed thrill ride.

the movie is physically illegal. not just impossible or implausible. It is physically illegal. Anyway, so I, I think that about covers it, but Matt, you had a story here know, aside from like paying attention to people who are speaking and that kind of stuff. And also not just giving the first reaction if it's kind of a heated conversation, but yeah, you put in the outline here that you wanted to tell a story.

So why don't you take that away before we move on to

one of the things that I found really interesting about, bill Clinton so I was listening to an audio book a while back, I wanna say that the book is called, never eat alone by Keith Ferrazzi.

I two RS, two Zs. could be conflating the book that it's from, but [00:26:00] if I am, you should read that book as well, because that book is all about building relationships. It's a fantastic book. But basically in this book, he talks about bill Clinton not about politics or anything like that, but he talks about how people recount the stories of meeting bill Clinton.

it was his mannerisms, his body language. nobody who ever met bill Clinton ever felt like he didn't care about them, which I think is uh, a really important trait when you wanna be a leader, especially, or if you want people to respect you, of the cool things about bill Clinton. And you could probably Google this. You could probably Google a picture of bill Clinton, shaking hands, But he was known for his embrace and how he would extend both of his hands to shake someone's hand. He would shake the hand, but then his, nondominant hand would embrace the other side of the hand.

And there was something intimate about that extra level of physical contact, where it was just, they were so excited to embrace this person it [00:27:00] wasn't a hug. You know, you think about hugging somebody and how warm that feels. Well, he was giving hand hugs, and people would remember that.

There's a story about him in college to where bill Clinton would walk around and ask people details about their life. And as soon as they would start responding, he would pull a little book out of his pocket. He would start writing details down. And when people said, oh, why are you writing this down? He had the most poetic and beautiful response ever because I want to remember. And when you tell somebody that about the actions in life that they are taking, there's not much that you can do that. Emulates respect more than that. James, if you say I got my pilot's license and I say, right on, man, that's dope. That's one thing. But I could also say, holy cow, man, you've been working for a really long time towards that. That's amazing because I remembered that you love [00:28:00] aviation. And in my opinion, it's remembering those things and it's applying them into your relationship and it, it's As we're gonna talk about later, the fun times, everybody's worked at a job where they feel like the crew, there is a family and those are jobs that you want to stay at forever.

It's hard to leave a job where you have good coworkers and good bosses. It's very easy to leave a job where you don't have these quality relationships with people. And I think bill Clinton did a wonderful job emulating a way. He says, you know what? This is important to them. And so if I'm going to have a good relationship with them, I'm gonna remember it, which brings us a perfect circle to mutual respect.

Absolutely. And I just wanna touch on what you said about, a good job where you feel respected and like it's a family that makes such a massive difference. Like of all the tours I've done. I think the first two worked tours were my favorite[00:29:00] in general, everyone just got along. But then there were other tours thinking of one specifically where I'm not gonna name names.

it was a co-head lining tour and both acts were in the same van and I was the driver and one act, the one I wasn't working for I'll say that was just always an hour late. So I would get up at like five 30 in the morning to be at the van at six 30 to drive, 10 hours to the next. and the act I was working for would be there at six 30 or six 15.

I'd usually be a few minutes early too, but the other band, not even a band, he's a rapper and his merch guy would show up consistently an hour late. And I finally, I talked to the manager that I was working for and I said, we gotta do something we're always late. And then you're asking me to speed, which I don't feel comfortable doing.

So we either have to set the lobby call earlier for them. I'll show up at, the actual time. But we tell them it's like an hour earlier than it actually is. It's like, well, we can fudge it 15 minutes. I'm like, that's fine by me. But [00:30:00] like, I'm getting up really early. And then I'm just sitting in the van waiting for an hour.

So I'm already starting to get tired by that point. best thing we can do is just leave on time. And it was really difficult to work with that artist because they didn't respect my time or the other artist's time or the manager's time.

and the merch guy was kind of supposed to try and keep him in check, but they would just go out and party.

And it's tough. Like, I didn't feel good about that tour. And there's no tour that you're gonna feel a hundred percent on things go wrong all the time. had they showed up late once or twice, whatever. But this was literally every single day. It was like calling their room, like get outta bed guys.

Like we were supposed to leave 45 minutes ago. Why are you still asleep? Oh yeah, we're on the way. And then it's like half an hour later, they finally show up. It's like you were on the way half an hour ago. It takes five minutes to walk down from your room. Oh yeah. To take a shower. It's like, dude, if you over slept, skip the shower.

Like, yeah. It's gonna be annoying that you're stinky in the van, but at least we're not waiting for you. Anyway, so that all aside ironically [00:31:00] no partnership, whether it's in a relationship or a band or a business, which a band is a business can function without mutual respect. And I absolutely did not have respect for those guys once they started acting like that, because that was just unprofessional and they were not respecting us.

But one thing that's really important is that if you're noticing any contempt towards your fellow bandmates, you have to have a Frank discussion with each other to resolve any of those issues before they get worse. Because contempt is one of those things that just kind of grows and grows. And at first it's just like little annoyances and then it eventually ends up with you hating the person.

And that is not good. That is not what you want in any kind of situation. there have been times where I messed this up. Like the last day job I ever had before I went fully independent I had one coworker and that coworker was in charge of me. They were the laziest person that I've ever worked with, like to the point that we needed to place an order and that person hadn't, [00:32:00] and they refused to get on the phone to place a rush order, even though it was something that was gonna take like two weeks to get to us, whereas a rush order would've taken two days and I was like, we need this now, like get on the phone and do this.

And that person just refused flat out, refused because they don't like talking on the phone. I'm like, this is your job. You need to do this. And they didn't. So we were outta supplies for two weeks. Now here's the thing. I had much more experience in that company. The only reason I didn't get the supervisor position in that job is that when I first started there, I didn't have a car and the other person did, and they wanted somebody who had a car. And that is how you set something up for a terrible dynamic, because you have somebody who's not doing their job, not willing to do their job, even though they're perfectly capable of it. And somebody else who has more experience could do the job, but didn't get it because of something trivial, like having a car.

Now, a car was important to that, but the company also could have said Hey, we'll give you a van. Cause it was only supposed to be six weeks originally. So that all aside [00:33:00] there was absolutely contempt there and I could have handled it better, but in the long run, I left the job and I'm way happier now because I worked for myself.

that's way better. And if you're in a band, you're working for yourself, but you are at the same time working for your band mates, your band mates, aren't just your coworkers. They are also business owners. They are business partners with you in this band. So unless you're paying them on a contract basis, they're equals with you.

because they are human beings They are worthy of your respect. the first thing to do, if you notice any erosion of your respect for them, you need to address it. And that goes back to the communication that we already talked about, because that is just so important.

And if you can't communicate clearly, then that respect is just going to erode more and more, and it's gonna lead to more contempt. And that is exactly what happened in that last day job I had, because I was just like, this is so simple. I could do this. You're in charge. But you just literally don't wanna pick up the phone.

And there were lots of little [00:34:00] things like that that just added up over the years. And finally, I hit the breaking point. I was like, I'm leaving, I'm done because the company refused to change anything. And there wasn't anyone else on site that saw how this person was acting. I was the only person who had to deal with it.

So anyway, that's enough of me ranting that why don't you take away next point here, which is ironic because it's something that I lack the second one, the first one I have the second one, I

don't we our next point is about empathy and patience. it's important to remember that we're all human. We all have stuff that happens in our life. So, Tying into the communication, being able to share openly that something is wrong or, you know, there's issues in your life.

these are really, really important and integral parts to a healthy relationship. If you want your bandmates to feel respected and you want to feel respected, the Bible calls this, the golden rule do unto, unto others, as you would have them do one unto you doesn't matter what religion you believe in this idea is practiced by literally everyone and everything. You you want to have mutual respect, you need to treat people with respect and that's what the [00:35:00] mutual part of that word is. sometimes this means being vulnerable. Sometimes this means sharing these like harder to talk about things, you know, like personal story, we've lost, friends and family members very close to us and we never, as a band would've been able to get over those hurdles.

If it wasn't for the love that we have for each other, it wasn't about the music. It wasn't about the band. We literally took like a multi-year hiatus because Jesse's father passed away and that didn't stick a stick in the spoke demolished the bike, and we all had a greater commitment to each other than to our business.

We were friends first. just, like you said earlier, James family first, my band mates are my elected family. I love them more than anything. To be honest, being in a band for me is not about being a rockstar. not even entirely about making music.

It's about maintaining a quality relationship and spending time with the people that I love. for me, that's the lens that I view everything through. And sometimes [00:36:00] when life is hard for me, That affects my bandmates because I'm not loving them. and then I don't communicate well, and it's this horrible catastrophe.

it's a snowball effect to where you eventually to this place where it's like, you can't have empathy and you can't have patience because, you're in such this chaotic mindset and you can't even communicate versus if you were to actually just go to the table, open up and say like, Hey guys, this is where I'm at.

This is like, what I need. These are the demands in my life, you have multiple options at that point. when you have other people and other external factors that say, Hey, like, what about this? What about this?

Well, you know, maybe that's gonna be frustrating and that's gonna be hard. And maybe at the time, I don't want to hear that maybe I'm being grumpy and it's like, no, I'm, I'm angry about this. And so I gotta tell them I can't do this, but then when I talk with them about it, that's the chance for me to be patient and to say like, Hey guys, here's where I'm at.

And they can say, Hey, well, have you thought about X, Y, or Z? maybe that's a way that we can, circumnavigate [00:37:00] this, roadblock, you need to show empathy in patience. When, somebody brings up a topic with you and you need to show empathy and patience, when you bring up a topic as well, because you have to understand like you were saying earlier, James, you are all equal partners in this, every decision that you make affects your band members as well, and their wives and their children and their daily routines.

the other jobs that they have while they're not touring, you have to put yourself in other people's shoes. and sometimes you'll come to this, hierarchy of what's important, if somebody dies. Or, you know, there's something important.

that's on the calendar. It's like, yeah, this is a mutual respect thing. This is an, empathy thing. This is a patients thing. We need to work on this together. But if you say, oh, you know, my, my second cousin's stepsister is getting married and last minute you decided you want to go, you know, maybe that's not as important.

you need to realize that the funeral is, quite higher on the hierarchy. And so setting clear expectations and then listening to each other, [00:38:00] loving each other, having empathy, putting yourself in their shoes and then being patient and taking the time to find the resolve that you need.

When you develop these working relationships, there's no limit to what you can't accomplish. I mean, that's literally what business is. Business is networking. that is the whole world. the most important people that you need to network with are your band mates. they're your family.

You need to talk with them. You need to be vulnerable with them. And most importantly, you need to love them and you can show them that you care by listening all these conversations that you have with your band mates this is the real human aspect of running a business. You can put everything on paper, you can do all the math formulas in the world, but the second that the rubber meets the road, that's where the real nitty gritty happens.

Like I have all this wonderful formula and I have all these things that are fantastic. But if you don't have a realistic expectation, it's not gonna work.

Absolutely. And you know, we're gonna talk about realistic [00:39:00] expectations next, but I wanna throw something out there and I gotta say, I don't like throwing people under the bus. I'm not the kind of person who does that. I don't like airing, dirty laundry in public.

But this is something that two years ago happened. I didn't tell a soul about this for two years aside from, you know, my family, but a few years ago I had a guest on the podcast named Shauna Potter from the band war on women.

And the reason I'm talking about this now is that there have been some very serious allegations against her by a former member of that band, kind of showing that, Hey, it's not just me who she was insensitive with. So if you wanna read the whole thing about war on women, look up the article by Nancy.

Hoberg what she wrote about her experiences with war on women. And mine is trivial. So trivial compared to what war on women did to Nancy. But so Shauna was on the podcast and we released the episode and that very weekend I had to put down my cat. And so I [00:40:00] didn't get around to posting it on social media. And Shauna sent an email saying like, just wanted to check. I didn't see any posts on social media. just wanted to make sure you're still promoting the episode on that. I said, yeah, no worries. Like, it's been a really tough weekend. We just had to put my cat down.

So I'm sorry I didn't post, but I'll get to it this week. Her response was one word. That word was cool.

And I was just like, what? Like, I can understand. Maybe she thought like cool that you're posting it, but that's still like, that is not a response. Somebody just tells you, they put their pet down. to be fair, to.

Two or three days later, she followed up and was like, I'm so sorry. I just realized bad that sounded. But that doesn't matter. Like you have to think before you speak. And so I didn't tell anyone about that because I was just like, you know, what benefit of the doubt, whatever, like people make mistakes.

But then, now that Nancy has come out with all the terrible things, pun not intended, cuz this is a serious moment of all the awful things that band did to her and to other former [00:41:00] members and to other people in their local scene, this is a small thing compared to what they did to other people, but illustrates in a way that people who are like that, you're probably not the only person they're treating badly.

So you should reevaluate your relationships with that person. And at the very least bring up your issues with them because otherwise it's just gonna snowball and get worse and

Absolutely. It's important to remember that Pandora only comes out of the box. She does not go back into the box. if you remember that once Pandora is out, there's consequences. So you have the option to how you want to release Pandora. you can be wonderful. You can be happy, or you could be terrible.

know what I would choose, I can choose to be with somebody who's empathetic and patient, or I can choose to be with somebody who's like, okay, cool. Well, we really gotta get this taken care of. you can really sense these things. and sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes we really quickly jump in and say, oh cool. And sometimes you need to say like, hold on. [00:42:00] I didn't mean cool about your animal dying. I'm really sorry to hear that you're having to go through that.

I meant cool about the post. And I realized that that was insensitive I'm sorry, I did not want that to come off that way. It's very easy to apologize if you make a blunder because we all do it. And that's part of the patience aspect. But the big thing is like Pandora only comes out of the box, so put your best foot forward.

And sometimes that means keeping your tongue behind your teeth.

Yep. And I gotta say that apology that you just like made up, cuz it was not your thing to apologize for was way more sincere than what was actually said.

sure because

I'll just leave it at that.

people not everything in life is a business relationship that's why fun time is literally on this list because in a working relationship, there's a lot of emotion there's emotional withdrawals and there's emotional deposits.

Every interaction that you have with somebody is an emotional withdrawal period. there's no escaping that. Now you can choose to make an emotional. At that same time [00:43:00] and those emotional deposits can end up superseding the emotional withdrawals. And those are what really like developed these absolutely long lasting, wonderful relationships where even years and years and years down the road, you still have relationships with people.

my favorite band is the red hot chili peppers. Do you think that these guys would've been able to play together for 40 years without having open communication? Absolutely not. No

way. I recall a story from scar tissue where flee, had a child. Touring was getting to be really, really hard. And he couldn't tour seven days of the week, which was like almost impossible financially, because you have to hire a crew for seven days of the week.

You can't hire a crew, oh, we're gonna pay you three days and we're not gonna pay you the other four. Nobody will work for you. but he came to his bandmates that said like, Hey, this is too demanding on me. It's too demanding on my, child. and the time that I'm spending with my kids, and my other relationships, my extraneous relationships are suffering because of this.

And you know what, Anthony Keda said, sweet. We will tour three [00:44:00] days outta the week. And the other four days will take off. Which meant that when they're touring, they didn't make money, that's how artists make money. And for you as a band to say, I will forego sole reason that I started this business.

The sole reason we go to work is to make money. Now we might enjoy it along the process, but we have to make money. We have to provide economic value. And he said, you know what? We're gonna pay all of our people seven days a week, which means that four days of the week, we're literally just, nothing but liabilities and we're hemorrhaging money, but you know what? They're on tour right now together.

John Hanta, Anthony Keyes, Chad Smith, and flee. These guys have been playing together since like 1989. 32 years of these four people collectively working together and none of this could have happened without open communication.

Absolutely. two things to unpack there. First of all, realistic expectations is the next thing we're talking about. And flee, went to the band and said, Hey, things have [00:45:00] changed because I have a child now I can't do this anymore. So he was setting those expectations with his bandmates. They could have kicked him out and said, okay, see ya.

But they said, we're gonna work with you on this now scar tissue, I should mention is Anthony S's book. It's his autobiography, I believe. Right. So that'll be linked in the show notes at Bandhive.rocks/ 1 48, as well as the other book you mentioned earlier

Never eat alone by Keith Ferra.

Never eat alone, Keith Ferrazzi. Yeah. So those will both be in the show notes at Bandhive.rocks/ 1 48. Now the thing here is this touring model of playing shows Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and the rest of the week is off. That's now standard in country. it's because fans don't go to shows on work nights typically.

So I worked at Tim Mcgras show back in June, and they were literally touring three days a week. And that is the standard for country shows now. So I don't know if flee saw that in country and brought it to them. Or if country saw that and said, Hey, let's try this because we have low turnouts Monday, Tuesday, [00:46:00] Wednesday.

But either way, I was talking to the VIP rep who I was working for that night and she was mentioning like other acts that she's done work for. big name acts, including K pop, like the biggest band in the world right now, who we've mentioned on the podcast a few times.

She was saying she prefers like the pop and the rock shores more, but what she really loves and why she does country tours is the schedule because you have that three on four off schedule and it's like, Hey, that works best for some people.

So if you gotta do that on a tour, talk to your bandmates about that. And now granted, this is only at the biggest levels of touring. You're not gonna see. A band playing bars do that because maybe they're only playing once a week. So then they're gonna try to go for a Friday or Saturday, but that all said realistic expectations.

Everyone has to have the same goals. You need to be on the same page as to what you want out of that band in the long run. So that means that before you add a new member to the band, before you [00:47:00] start your band, if you're just starting your band, you need to lay out those expectations in advance.

And that covers everything from finances. So like who contributes are we all equal members? We get equal payouts. Okay. So we have to pay in equally is the singer songwriter, the leader of the band and they get 50% and everyone else splits the other 50%. If that's how you structure your income, that's how any investment should be structured as well.

If the rest of the band, if they're all hired guns, then they're not gonna pay for anything you're paying for everything. And you are paying those. Quote, unquote, bandmates that are really contracted musicians to play with you, but you are the band. So the expectations change based on how you are structuring your business.

Same thing goes for practice or time for tours. if you want tour two weeks, every quarter, but your bandmates can't take that time off work. That's not gonna be a good fit. You have to find somebody who maybe they're not as good [00:48:00] of a musician, but they can be there two weeks, every quarter to play those tours.

that's gonna be better than somebody who is the best musician in your state, but they can't leave for more than three days at a time. Like they say, oh, I can do long weekends. And that's it. They're not a good fit for your band. If you wanna hit the road, you gotta find people who can hit those goals and be open if they can't.

because if somebody says, Hey, yeah, I'd love to do that. And then as soon as they're in the band, they start not doing what they said they were gonna do. That's even worse because then you feel that betrayal, it stings. It's like a dagger to your heart. It's like, Hey, you said we could go on tour two weeks, a quarter.

Now, all of a sudden you can't do that. that's barring any circumstances in life changing. Like people get sick, people have kids, all that kind of stuff will change it. if nothing changes and all of a sudden they quote unquote, can't do that. It's like, well, we told you about this in advance.

So what's up with that. Like, we have to have a deep talk about your role in this band. [00:49:00] You said you could do this. Nothing in your life has changed. either we need you to do this or we gotta part ways and we don't want to do that, but this is what you agreed to if somebody had family stuff come up.

Totally different stuff changes, but you still have to then reset those expectations. Exactly. Like FL did. Now, Matt, I think you get to talk about the fun

Yeah, of course I do fun time, the best time. This is really, really, really, really, really, really important because the first priority in any business band, relationship, family, anything is the quality relationships we build with each other. How do we do that? Well, we make emotional deposits into the relationship.

How do you make emotional deposits? Is that hard to do? Is that, easy to do the form it takes is all different shapes and sizes. So something really simple that you can do is hanging out with your bandmates. I know for me, the times when.

I make the most progress in music is like when I'm literally sitting there sometimes like a little bit bored, but I'm at Jesse's house [00:50:00] and we're just sitting there going through stuff together, the best material we ever put out, or the songs that come out the most polished, or we really, we come outta the studio just feeling like, man, that was worth a million bucks man.

It was when we actually had the time to sit there and work through things together. And some of the time it might been a little bit difficult, but by the time we get to the end of the session or the end of the hangout, then it's like, Hey man, let's go get some dinner. let's have a beer there's a comedy show, I, for the first time ever got to see the red hot chili peppers in concert, I was not going to be able to do this, but my drummer chase whose favorite band is also the red hot chili peppers. And I was actually the start of our relationship was. About this mutual love of this band and me coming from this like punk rock alternative rock background, and him coming from a funk background and jazz and classical, you know, he's classically trained drummer.

We came from totally different worlds, but I had a chili peppers tattoo on my [00:51:00] chest and he was wearing a red, hot chili pepper shirt. And I went and I saw him at a battle of the bands. And I was like, Hey man, cool shirt. And we hung out all night they had an after party and we went back to his house and everybody sat there and they were having their own party and chase.

And I literally just ignored the whole world. We literally sat there and I had his bass and I played chili peppers, bass lines while he would be like, that's this song? And literally that's what we did. And it was just so much fun. And guess what happened 10 years later? Chase bought tickets to the red out chili peppers.

And he flew from Spokane, Washington to Denver, Colorado. And I flew outta Newark and I flew into Denver and we came together and we spent 48 hours together and we saw the chili peppers in concert. it cost a lot of money for both of us to do this, but it was something that, you know, neither one of us had ever seen him live.

John Hanta had left the band and come back a couple different times throughout the years. And our favorite lineup ever was these four. And when he rejoined the [00:52:00] band and they were going out on this tour, we were like, there was something inside of chase that said I'm not missing this opportunity.

And throughout the years, you know, there probably could have been like, chase didn't need to buy tickets for us, but he did. He just bought them. And then he just told me, he said, Hey dude, I got tickets to chili peppers. We're going it's in Denver. I'll fly there and then I had family stuff come up and I had to be on the east coast and I said, you know what, I'm gonna be there.

And I had to set clear expectations and be empathetic and patient my wife and in that relationship as well, because that meant that I was gonna be gone from our kids and gone from helping her, for 48 hours. But you know what, because of all of these working parts, this open communication, these clear expectations, this empathy, this patience that we all had with each other and the want to make these emotional deposits into these relationships for a long term healthy benefit for everybody, it turned into one of the greatest events of my life, because it was something so simple, so pure, and it was the [00:53:00] fundamental root of our relationships with each other.

We cared so much about each other that we wanted to make these things work we were going to do whatever it took. and that's what it all came down to. and it started with the fun time. these are your friends, these are your family members.

if everything is all about work, all you're having is emotional withdrawals. You know, how is Applebee's emotionally depositing into your life? They're not, they're financially depositing into your life. you can be effective and efficient.

You cannot be efficient with people. You can be efficient with things. You can be effective with people. And part of that effectiveness is being patient if you're trying to get through things in a speedy manner, especially with people that's not gonna work because the point is you have to slow roll through these things and you have to say, let's go play a game of disc golf.

let's go have a beer, let's go to a concert. Let's reinvigorate. Like what made us fall in love with this scene? let's go have a nice bite to eat. Do what makes [00:54:00] you feel alive and do it together?

Yeah, absolutely. And just having these things to go and do first time for both of you seeing them first show the tour and it's in your home city, or your current home city, I should

Yep. Well, and it was amazing. It really was. And, you know, could I have knit picked a million things? Sure. It. Oh yeah. It wasn't supposed to rain and we got dumped on then afterwards One of the cars broke down. So like getting back to the car was like a giant headache.

he spent a bunch of money on the tickets. We spent a bunch of money on flights. there were so many cogs in the machine that like, could have been this giant damper on the thing, but that's not what it was about. It was about this fun time that we got that was the lifeblood of our relationship to begin with. And so remembering that and holding onto that was just like something so special. And it was just like it rained and it was just like, let it. Because there is nothing. There is no force in heaven or earth that could [00:55:00] deteriorate the relationship that I have with this guy sitting next to me and what this band means to our relationship.

And when you can separate yourself from the business and the emotional withdrawals and the hardship, and you can say, this is why we love each other. This is why we are family. This is why 10 years later, we still want to spend time around each other. There is nothing that will ever, ever, ever tear that apart.

And that's why you have flee. And Anthony that are still playing together. You find these relationships, you find these people and you love them. Unequivocally, unconditionally, you converse with them. You tell them who you are. You be real, you be yourself. And at the end of it, You'll thank yourself.

That does it for this episode of the Bandhive Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in listening and huge. Thanks to Matt for coming back. It is such a pleasure to have Matt Hoos of alive in Barcelona, back on the show. [00:56:00] I hear feedback from people that they like the solo format.

I hear feedback from people that they like the co-host format. And I just gotta say the day before Matt and I discussed him coming back on the show which was all Matt's idea, you know, I had said family stuff take as much time as you need. Let me know when you want to come back. of our listeners, Nate said to me in a DM like, oh man, I miss Matt on the show.

Nate, this one's for you, man. Like it was just the perfect timing. You said you were looking forward to having Matt back and then, the very next day, Matt messaged me and said, Hey, I wanna come back and do an episode or two. So perfect timing. I'm so happy to have Matt back on the show. And what a great topic, because you Matt's band has been through a ton they've been around for, I think, 13 years now.

They used to be called the persevering promise. Now they're alive in Barcelona and seeing how well they have handled their relationship as a band compared to the band that kind of inspired this episode, who was not very good about maintaining those [00:57:00] relationships amongst the uh, bandmates alive in Barcelona.

They can talk about that so much better than I can because I'm a behind the scenes guy. I don't play in bands. I'm not in bands. I just know how the industry works. And I've been on the road. I've worked in live sound. I've worked in radio, I've worked in all kinds of different fields in the industry. And so the experience that I have is totally different from the experience that alive and Barcelona has, or the experience that the unnamed band that inspired this episode has.

So I'm so glad that Matt was able to come and talk about his experiences being in his band, because that is so much more relevant than what I can share. And it's just so nice to have somebody to collaborate, to bounce puns off of, and to just have a friend to talk with and share our thoughts about the music industry and whatever the topic of the episode is on that particular recording.

So thank you, Matt. It's a pleasure to have you back and I'm looking forward to the next episode and for all you listeners, if you are not already [00:58:00] in our Bandhive community, you can head on over to Facebook and search for Bandhive, that's B a N D H I V E. Or you can go to Bandhive.rocks/group, which will automatically redirect you.

And we're gonna have a thread for this episode. We have a thread for every episode, but in this episode's thread, I would love to hear. You handle situations in your band, what kind of band dynamic do you have? Is it like alive in Barcelona where you're all best friends, practically brothers, you are family, or is it more of a business transaction?

Because if it's all business focused, maybe you'll make it as a band, but you're never gonna have that connection that alive in Barcelona has. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on how things are in your band. So again, you can go to Bandhive.rocks/group, or you can search for Bandhive on Facebook. then you can find the discussion thread for episode 1 48.

We'll be back with another brand new episode of the Bandhive Podcast next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern until then. I hope you have a great week, stay safe. And of course, as [00:59:00] always keep rock.