Welcome to Episode 39 of the Bandhive Podcast.

It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross, and I'm here with Aaron Gingras of the band Suburban Samurai. How's it going today, Aaron?

I'm doing quite well back on the odd number. Yeah, that's gonna be the thing that I riff on its beginning of all of my episodes. Now, I guess, yeah. Speaking of being back on numbers, we recorded the first episode of the band I've podcast on August 25th. Last year of that was 2019, and it didn't come out until December because we got way ahead on episodes and wanted to have 10 in the books ready to go just in case, which was really good thing because, you know, the global pandemic and all that happened, we didn't record an episode for I think the entire month of March or maybe we only recorded one, but it was really great to have so many episodes recorded in advance.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that this episode that we're recording on August 1st 2020 actually comes out on the one year anniversary of that first recording. This episode will be released on Tuesday, August 25th 2020. So happy one. Your future birthday. Tow us. But by the time anyone else hears this happy one year birthday, kind of like I I guess the conception of the podcast was August 20. 5th Birthday will be in December, but anyway, we have officially been working on this podcast for ah year. As of the time this episode comes out and it's been an awesome ride, we've got a lot of great feedback.

And honestly, I just want to say thank you to everyone who has listened to the podcast giving us feedback. Who has come on the podcast? It's been really awesome. To have guests like Infinite Signal was on Adam from Pickwick Commons, Ryan from Robot Dog Studio and obviously Brendan Cunningham from Quiet F. That was an amazing interview. I'm probably forgetting one or two others, but we've had so many great guests. It's been really amazing. And here's to many more guests as well as episodes and all of the discussion.

And the group online is, well, it it's just it's been so awesome to hear everybody's thoughts and just to kind of see where everybody's coming from and where they want to go. Yeah, absolutely. And if anyone is not in that group yet and you want to join, just head over to better dot band slash group and you will be redirected to our Facebook group. Or, of course, you can just search for us on Facebook Bandhive and you will find our group. So the funny thing about all of this is when we first started recording the podcast, we planned to make it all about touring, because that's the background that both Aaron and I have and Matt as well.

He's got a lot more marketing under his belt, but he also has ah lot of touring knowledge. And then, after about the first five or six episodes, I want to say when we had Matt come in, we decided, actually, you know what? We're gonna pivot and really get going with music industry in general. And it's so great that we did because, you know, three months after we launched Cove it and no one can tour right now. So imagine being a podcast all about touring during a pandemic when No. One contour.

That would have been really bad timing. So just want to give ourselves a pat on the back there for preemptively dodging the bullet. We had no idea what was going on or would be going on just like everyone else. But we got really lucky with that. Lucky to have diversified R I p portfolio, for sure. Yes, exactly. And so this episode is going to be all about booking shows, and we have to put the covert disclaimer in here that if you're gonna book in person shows, be safe, don't be an idiot.

Make sure everybody has their masks on social distance as much as possible. You know, I worked a stream last month for the town of Fairfax, Vermont, and it was their Fourth of July celebration, which last year had I think over 1500 people there. This year it was just the livestream, the bands and crew on Lee. It was a blast toe work it It was really cool. I enjoyed it a lot, but it was obvious to me, seeing that that in person gigs have a long way to go before there.

Truly safe. It is tough to have a gig and social distance, a band on a small stage or social distance, the sound engineers or three audience. If you're in a cafe or anything like that, we are also going to talk about booking live streams on here. So hopefully you haven't tuned out already. And for anyone who did oh well, sucks to be you don't tune out now because we're giving the fair warning that there will be live streaming topics in this episode as well. And so to actually get into what it is, we're going to talk about booking etiquette and getting your first shows as an artist.

Now, if you go back to Episode five, we had a great episode about how you can get more shows outside your hometown and Aaron, you had a really great system there that I think everyone should hear about because you have a lot of thought, and you've been doing that with Sub Sam for over five years now, Covic break aside. So in that episode, it was all about getting shows in areas where you don't know anyone or you haven't ever played before. But you already have a repertoire of songs and your established in your home area, your town or state, depending on where you live.

But we didn't cover how to get your very first chose is an artist. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So, Erin, if you want to take this away, go for it. Yeah. So, basically, if you have written a couple of songs, you're starting to get your act together, Pun intended. If you don't have the show history, if you haven't yet established those connections with the promoters, you know, maybe you haven't established many connections with other bands with other people trying to do the same thing that you're doing.

How can you get started? It's kind of like a chicken or the egg thing, and it is kind of funny because a certain point, you kind of just have to jump in. So we're gonna talk a little bit about what to do and a little bit about what? Not to dio starting out if you again if you're without presence, if you don't have the digital numbers, if you're just starting with the website, the social media you know, maybe you've recorded some tunes and you've thrown them up online, and you're just starting to sort of build your base and gather some streams.

Hopefully, with that, you're just starting to build your audience. And so what's the next step? Do all of that to get all of your ducks in a row and sort of assembled a package and then prepare to introduce your baby to the world. So the first thing that we have on our list for today is Get to know those local gatekeepers, the promoters, other artists and start establishing those connections. The best way to do that would be just going to shows. You can grow your relationship with the other people who are a part of the local community andan.

That way, when you're ready to play, you'll already know somebody who might be willing to give you a shot or, you know, help introduce you to somebody else who is in a position to give you that shot. There's nothing wrong with asking. There's maybe a way to do it in a way not to do it. But don't be afraid. You've got to make that connection at some point and you've got to start somewhere, and the right people will notice the hard work and appreciate the effort. That being said, you know, living within the era of co vid at the moment, the same thing could be applied to remote anything.

Think about your networking and Facebook groups. Instagram all of the socials same principles can apply to remote relationships to, and they can in some ways be just as if not, maybe even more effective. Yeah, exactly. And there's this kind of mystery around getting your first show that a lot of artists really kind of see a barrier. And so we're going to try to pierce the veil s so everyone can understand how to get your first show and you know, not have that stage fright of asking. Hey, I want to play a show.

I do have toe interject here and say that was such a good one. Thank you. I was waiting for the proper moment for that. I thought of it like two, and it was like, Oh, there's gonna be a spot for this pun eso anyway, Going further, we have a few rules of thumb for getting shows, and the basic analogy here is it's kind of like asking someone out. The first thing is you don't want to obsess over one venue or promoter who keeps turning you down. If somebody's turned you down repeatedly, just find the next one and move on.

You don't want to come back over and over and over again and act desperate because people can smell that a mile away. And once they realize that, they're going to think that there's something wrong, like you can't pull your weight when it comes to bring an audience, which means the venue will lose money either on bar sales or the door split. If they're doing a door deal continuing on from that, you have to have a solid ask. You don't want to say, Hey, do you have any shows coming up that I can hop on because then they have to do the work.

They have to think about what music you play and find a bill that's a good fit for you, which is not ideal because that makes them do more work to help you. Instead, you should look at the schedule and see what's coming up and where they might be able to fit in another act. So if, for example, it's on Early Show and it's scheduled for, you know, four hours like 6 to 10 or 7 to 11, but they only have three act. They could probably fit another band on there for 20 or 30 minutes.

And if the other acts or somewhat in line with the music you play, you can reach out and say, Hey, I see X y Z Band is playing next month. Is there any room on the bill for us to do a 20 to 30 minute opening set? The key here is that if you get turned down, don't get angry. That's gonna burn bridges instead. You just want to say no worries. Thanks for getting back to me. I'll hit you up. Next time I see a bill, I think we would be a good fit on.

So that shows the promoter or venue Booker, that you're not just looking to get on any show. You're trying to find a lineup that will not only benefit you, but your music will be a good fit and add value to the patrons who were there that evening. Because you don't wanna be a rock band playing on a country bill. It's not going to do you any good, and it's not going to do the venue any good. And it's not going to do the country act any good because anyone who is there if they don't like rock or if it just doesn't fit the mood, they're gonna be like, What is this?

This is terrible and either they'll leave or they'll just be in a bad mood and you don't want that. Plus, those people will then have a bad image of you. Have a story here. Years ago, I saw a great psycho Billy Horror core type band called Stellar Corpses, one of my favorite bands of all time, and they played a bar in Massachusetts and unfortunately it was really empty because it was booked last minute and the stellar corpses guys at the time this was I want to say 2013 so they were probably in their late twenties, early thirties, out Wager and the bar booked a Surf Rock act toe open, made up of guys in their sixties.

At the least, it did not go well. What's more is doors were at eight. The surf rock band played from 9 to 10 30 and stellar corpses played from 11 30 to 12 30. Not because that's when they wanted to play, but because that's what the venue set up as the production schedule. Now I think they would have given stellar corpses a little longer of a set if they wanted it. But either way, having an opening act play an hour and a half is a terrible idea, especially if they don't fit the music at all.

And they're terrible. This is just a bunch of dads who play in their garage. That's my image of them. They were all wearing their own T shirts, like the band shirts, which, if you're on the road and something, you'd run out of clothes. Sure, toss on one of your shirts, but these guys were from like 10, 15 minutes down the road. You can put on a shirt that doesn't have your face on it, so that just I mean stellar corpses slate at that night. It was a great show on their part, but it was just such a weird event, and it was really a bomber to have that.

And the thing is, in Boston, the subway at that time shut down at 12 30 we only had four extra seats in the car. So one of my friends actually had to leave and go home early before started. Corpses even was playing because they were going on so late. If doors were opening at eight, honestly, the headliners should be going on at 10 at the latest. If there's one opener that's thinking music starts at nine. Opener gets half an hour, maybe 45 minutes, and then you have a 15 to 30 minute change over in.

The headliner goes on, especially for a small bar. Doors should be like 15 minutes. Doors at eight show 8 15. The opener plays till 8 45 9 15 at the latest. Stellar corpses and they play till 10 45 done by 11. Get in play. Get out, We're done. Yeah, so that's my rant for the day. Based on your description so far, I also wouldn't be surprised if that show is on, like either our Tuesday night or like a Sunday night. I believe it was a Thursday, but I can't recall for sure it's been so long that being said, understanding, not every night, can be a Friday or Saturday.

Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, that sounds like a mess, but it sounds like they handled it well and they still killed the set in the way that they could. Yeah, And then it was great to a couple of years later, see stellar corpses in California, where they're from and like they sold out this bar that holds, like 150 people or maybe 100 20 people. And it was awesome. And there's just like everyone is stoked to be there. It's like, Whoa, this is the total opposite. Like, this is really cool. That was really fun and overall, a good experience, except for the fact that the venue just had no idea what they're doing.

And as far as I know, the venue closed years ago for some other unrelated stuff that we won't get into. And it's not the other Massachusetts sketchy venue that I've talked about in the podcast publicly, it was It's not that one, I guess there's a lot of sketchy venues out there, which is something that Segways perfectly into the next thing you wanted to talk about here in Yeah, So we're going to get into red flags for live shows, going to keep it short and sweet here because we've touched on point sort of and scattered them throughout other episodes.

But really, some of the main pieces that we'd want to pay attention to would be doing our best to educate ourselves. And then, you know, baby, avoid predatory promoters or venues or, you know, other people in positions of power or gatekeepers. On a recent episode, we did talk about all the reasons why you need to learn more about the opportunity, you know than just writing off something that is just label. Just pay to play right away because a lot of people do pay to play in a number of different situations, and you might not even realize that it's happening.

But it is. Yeah, that was Episode 33. 5 lies Too many musicians believe, overcoming common music myths. So if anyone wants to listen to that episode, just head on over to and I've got rocks slash 33. That's the numbers 33 and you can check out that episode. Yeah, as the listeners comptel super easy to like duck into any of these rabbit holes. But if you want to hear more, go check out that episode but basically avoiding predatory practices and promoters and venues rather gatekeepers. You also want to make sure that you're not wasting your own or other people's time.

So really, the question I usually ask myself when I'm setting up a gig or an event, whatever it is is, is it worth it? Is it worth my time? Are the other parties who are involved whatever this is gonna walk away at the end of the night thinking Wow, that was worth my time. You know, we want to make sure that everybody feels like they either have got something out of the experience or that, at the very least, they haven't lost tonight, where they could otherwise have been reading or watching TV or something.

You wanna have everybody feel invested and you've got to put a little work into that and finally, not so much again. A red flag is something just to be aware of and and something you want to pay attention to is that is lack of preparation. You wanna make sure that anything that you're getting yourself into, you wanna make sure that you're prepared for it as best you can, And then you also want to keep a ni out on again. It kind of calls back to 0. 1 the predatory practices.

It's not going to do you any good if you're as prepared as convene. But then you show up to the gig or to the recording studio or whatever it is that you're doing. And you're the Onley one who's prepared because that's going to be just as if not, maybe even more painful, depending on what you're doing. So ah, few points Thio. Try to continue Thio, be aware of and avoid. Make sure you're knocking out what you're doing with a good group of people. Nobody's wasting their time and that everybody is prepared and invested in whatever it is that you're doing exactly, and that comes down to a few things that we should dio for live shows, and the first thing we're going to say is a shout out to Episode 13.

Pre show communication could save your show and your life and that title sounds click baby. But we really mean that seriously. Communication can be very important. I shouldn't say can be it is very important. So if you want to check that one out band, I've got rocks slash 13. That's the numbers 13 And that goes right into thier lack of preparation that you're talking about Aaron. But some of the things just briefly that should be covered are what is the event? So who's playing? What are you playing? You know how long when where, why all that kind of stuff.

And then before the show happens, you should negotiate your pay but know your value and keep it realistic. And so that means. You know, if you're playing for $0 that's fine. But that's a conversation that has to be hat. Don't expect to not get paid. You have to work with the pro owner and say, Hey, what's the pay for this gig? And if they say $0 and you're okay with that, that's fine but the conversation needs to happen. A second thing that you need to pay attention to is what's the goal that this event will help you build towards.

So are you trying to grow in audience in a certain market? Are you connecting with local bands and promoters? Or are you just trying to get more shows under your belt so you can work on your stage presence, which we also have an episode all about stage presence, that is number 17. Fix your stage presence. Now, If you want to check that one out, it's banned. I've got rocks slash 17, the numbers 17 that, all aside, things are very, very different right now. And a lot of what we have said does apply to the Covad era as far as streaming and remote events and stuff like that.

But I think you've got more detail here. Erin, since I know you guys are actually setting up a bunch of livestream stuff right now for Sub Sam, we are I need to stop using the Oh, no, I'm spoiling the surprise joke because I think I've milked just about as many uses out of that as I can But, yeah, we're setting up to do that. So let's talk a little bit about streaming and remote Event to do is obviously first and foremost. We did dive quite a bit deeper into this topic.

Episode 34 which was titled How to Provide a High Value Livestream to Your Fans. We had Mr Ryan Cohen of Robot Dog Studio right here in Vermont on the episode, and he was able to provide a lot of really great detail, a little bit of background on what he's doing now and then where he started and then sort of what the path between those two points looked like. And you know what? We also discussed what you could be doing to sort of improve your game if you so choose a swell.

So that was Episode 34. How to provide a high value livestream to your fans with Ryan Cohen of Robot Dog Studio. Yep, and that'll be it banned. Hive dot rocks slash 34 the number 34 he's actually doing a live stream with the band Satyam right now who are banned. I've followers. So as soon as we're done recording this, I know what I'm going to Dio is head on over to that stream and watch their set basically toe run through these points quickly. We're really just talking about promoting events as what they are events, you know, streams or very similar.

And in many ways, just like a live gig. You can work with other bands or maybe even other venues or other businesses within your community. Of course, that could be local physical, geographic community. Or it could be you working with other bands or entities sort of within your scene. And that could be remote. Does anything can so you can work with other people, just like you would with a live gig? Of course, we do need to mention again. That depends on how your area is doing with the outbreak and what regulations or challenges your area might be facing at the moment.

But there are opportunities there, so, just like you would with a live gig, you could work with people on the audio portion of the content. The video itself. You could work with the restaurants or bars or other local businesses on sponsorship agreements. You could even work with. Other bands either live in the same space again, depending on regulation or remotely and step the game up and kind of have, like, an opener or ah Ko performer take part in the stream. Aziz. Well, so there are a lot of things, a lot of new things that everybody is going to start to be able to do and are already doing because of everything that we're all dealing with together with this thing.

But I think it's really funny, and I can really appreciate the fact that I and I think a lot of others air realizing a t least for streaming events There are a lot of parallels and a lot of similarities between remote events, streaming events and live gigs. There's a lot that carries over from one to the other. So I really do think that we, you know, if we have all been gigging for a while, we kind of have a really great head start. And if you've been thinking about or working your way up to starting to play out for your first time, none of that thought has been wasted.

None of the energy has been wasted. There are a lot of ways that you can apply what you've already put in all the work to kind of pivoting just a little bit and still reaching a lot of people and hopefully having a really good time doing it. Yeah, definitely. I think it's so important for people to realize that you can't just toss a live, stream up and expect people to come. A few people might see it, but if you promote it like a show, which is what Ryan was talking about on that episode that was one of his main points was.

Have a good production and promote it. It's not. If you build it, they will come scenario like it's not going to be. If you stream it, they will come. If you promote it, they might come. But you have to be convincing about it In all of this, When we're talking about booking your first show or your live stream, you need to find the right balance between aiming for perfection and delivering a subpar product and experience, you have to find a new equilibrium that's realistic. Obviously you want to be as good as you can be, but if you go for perfection, you're gonna end up you know, rehearsing for 10 years and playing one show in that entire time.

That's something that one of our Bandhive listeners mentioned in past episode Frida from the band. Galitzki wrote in about one of her past bands making that mistake, and we talked about it in Episode 29. 9. Mistakes most bands make during their careers so you can listen that one at Bandhive dot rocks slash 29. That's the number 29 and it really is true. So Maney bands make that mistake and just don't put themselves out there. So it's great to see that Florida and her new band are getting out there, and they have music out there playing shows.

Well, they were playing shows until the pandemic, but this is something that we have to stress. And I want to say, If you are a new band right now who cannot play live, do something, get a live stream out there, you have to engage your audience. Somehow. There are bands out there who are 100% remote even before the pandemic, and they do incredibly well. They'll do like a live session where they each record their parts in one take and do a video for it and all that and just stick it together.

And that's what they dio. So the opportunities air there. You just have to figure out what fits your needs the best. All this boils down to don't jump into something too quickly. You have to do your research and know what you're getting into so you could do it properly the first time That does it for another episode of the band. I've podcast. Thank you for listening. We hope that this episode gives you some ideas and insight into booking your first show or live scream. Just want to say, hey, take precautions if you are playing out where your masks social distance as much as possible and try to find out what the venue is doing to keep people safe before you confirm your show.

Because even if you do everything to stay safe, if the venue isn't, there might be issues on an unrelated note. If you happen to be listening in apple podcasts or iTunes, we would love Thio. Get your feedback if you could take a few seconds to leave a rating and review so we know what we're doing Well and what we can improve on that would be absolutely appreciated. We'll be back next Tuesday at 6 a.m. Eastern time with another episode. The next one is gonna be all about cover songs and whether you should record and release them.

That was really fun. Episode to record. So I hope you enjoy it again. That'll be live next Tuesday at 6 a.m. In the meantime, we hope you have an awesome week. And of course, as always, keep rocking. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross, and I'm here with me again. E said something backwards. I don't even understand what radio. Yep.