[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 197 of the Bandhive podcast.

[00:00:04] James: It is time for another episode of the Bandhive podcast. My name is James Cross, and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the show, we're not talking about touring, we are talking about guest features, and how they can help promote Your band if you do them, right? This is something that has been around for ages.

[00:00:22] James: You've always had artists featuring other artists on their music and it's an amazing thing to see two of your favorite artists collaborate together or sometimes you see an artist that you love and somebody you've never heard of collaborating and it turns you on to this other artist who has an amazing back catalog and you discover new music through it.

[00:00:39] James: Either way, it is a really useful tool and your tool belt if you do it right. One thing I want to point out is that when you do this in the last 10 years or so Spotify has made it so incredibly important because you can tag those artists and they are listed as an artist on that song So if you're the smaller artist, you're going to [00:01:00] benefit from the larger artist, their fans on Spotify are notified whenever they release a new song, whereas if you're the larger artist, you can help the smaller artist out by allowing them to tag you in that song. So your fans get notified. This is one of the main things about features now. And up until about 10 years ago, that wasn't really a thing. A feature was just a feature, but now it has such a massive impact on marketing.

[00:01:22] James: And before we get into this. I want to stress that it really does come down to who you know in the music business. Years ago, I was doing an EP for a small little Vermont band called Dented Personality. First EP I ever produced. I did not do a great job with it, but I got Soren Hansen from New Politics to do guest vocals on one of the songs.

[00:01:43] James: And it's not because we paid, or we did anything special, it's because I was a fan of New Politics, and had seen the band, four times in the span of a year. actually, you know what, it was five times in the span of a year, and I interviewed them as well. So I just hit up Sorin and said, Hey.

[00:01:58] James: We have this song [00:02:00] check it out Would you be interested in doing guest vocals and he loved the song and said yeah, I'll do it other times You can pay for features, But we're gonna get into all of this later. First things first if you're not sure what a feature is.

[00:02:11] James: It's basically when somebody is on your song or you're on somebody else's song most commonly this is for a vocalist you'll have a guest vocalist or you'll be a guest vocalist on somebody else's track however this can also be for an instrument for example you might have an amazing guitarist do a guitar solo on one of your tracks that can be a really cool way to do it or Apocalyptica.

[00:02:35] James: Ever heard of them? You probably have. Well, back in the day, they did not have a singer, so every single song they had with vocals was a guest feature. And they got some great features, like Adam from Three Days Grace, Till from Rammstein, all kinds of amazing and talented vocalists to sing on these songs.

[00:02:53] James: That said, if you're doing the guest instrumentalist route, be sure that they are a very [00:03:00] popular artist because unless they're the cream of the crop, it's not going to get attention the way a mid range vocalist might, A top range vocalist is going to get a lot more attention, but guitarists, for example, they're not going to get that much attention unless they are really top of the line. So, if you're going the instrumental route, be sure to get the best of the best, somebody who's really well known, because otherwise it's just not going to work out. The third way you could collaborate with others is songwriting. Now, you can benefit on this from better writing, but you're not necessarily going to benefit from a marketing perspective unless you get that co writer to also sing on the song, meaning that you can tag them in the song when you release it.

[00:03:39] James: If they're just a co writer, you'll want to credit them, of course, but they're not necessarily going to be tagged as a performer on the song. And that's where the And that's where the Spotify promotion comes in, is when you tag somebody as a performer because they are on that song. The songwriting credits are listed separately on Spotify and don't tag the other artist. It's more so just a legality and a [00:04:00] formality rather than actually getting your music out there to another audience.

[00:04:04] James: And I gotta say, I've discovered some really cool artists through collaborations. One of my favorite bands right now is a band out of Germany called Sperling. And I discovered them because another German band that I was listening to called Kind Kaputt did a song with Sperling, and it's a Sperling song, but Kind Kaputt and another artist named Magaton Mann were on it.

[00:04:24] James: And so I was like, Oh, what's this? And I checked it out. Cause Spotify had it listed under a Kent Kaput and it was really good. And honestly, they are literally one of my favorite bands right now. They are kind of like a uh, post hardcore German version of yellow card. They have a cello instead of a violin or viola.

[00:04:38] James: I can't remember which Sean plays, but. That said a really good band and I've been binging their music lately all because I found them through another artist that simple do not underestimate this People will listen to the artists they like and see Oh, who's this other artist that's on the song with them?

[00:04:55] James: Let's check that out. And if anyone wants to listen to it, this song is called S Gate.[00:05:00] It'll also be linked in the show notes at Bandhive. rocks slash 197 for those of you who don't want to figure out how to spell things in German. So Bandhive. rocks slash 197, that's the number 197, to find all the links that I'm going to mention here in this episode.

[00:05:14] James: Another great example of this is Enoshikari, at the end of 2022, released two singles. One with Wargasm, it was called The Void Stares Back, and this was a full co write and co vocal song. So, both bands worked on the song together, and then the singers of Wargasm, both featured on the track, and maybe they had something to do with the instrumentals as well?

[00:05:37] James: I'm not sure about that. Now, I had heard of Wargasm before, but this was the first time I really got into them. I was like, wow. This is really good. I love this song. It's one of my favorite Shikari songs. They did it again with another single a few months later called Bull and that was with Cody Frost who I had never heard of before and apparently she's a massive enter Shikari fan and Somehow befriended them and they did a song together, which is absolutely [00:06:00] amazing good for her on doing this And again, it is a full co built song.

[00:06:04] James: It's energy kari and cody frost. It's not featuring cody frost It is energy kari and cody frost, imagine if I had gotten to co write a song and perform it with one of my favorite bands when I was 23, she's pretty young. So that would have been just absolutely fantastic.

[00:06:19] James: So it does work out if you know the right people. And honestly, you probably do know the right people already. You just have to get up the courage to ask. So we've already talked about how this can expose you to a new audience because If you are on Spotify, which you should be, if you take your music at all seriously, it needs to be on every major streaming platform, and that includes Spotify.

[00:06:43] James: I don't care what you think about Spotify, you just need to be on there. It's as simple as that. Because this will allow you to reach new audiences. Whether you're the smaller artist or the larger artist, there is a benefit here.

[00:06:55] James: because even if you're the larger artist, that smaller artist is going to have some fans and they might [00:07:00] discover your music through that smaller artist. So it is a two way street, and you get some cool new vocals for your song and you make a really great connection as well.

[00:07:08] James: It also provides creative diversification because when you're working on these songs, You might have a sound that you go for and when you bring in a guest they say I love this But let's try something a little different and they tweak that song just right and make it something unique Neither of you would have come up with alone But maybe it's that next big hit that is going to get you a couple thousand more monthly listeners or a bunch of plays.

[00:07:34] James: You never know what it's going to be. So be open to working with people who are going to say, let's make some changes rather than just, okay, what's the vocal line you want me to sing. You want to be sure that you're working with the right collaborators. We're going to take the time and put in the effort.

[00:07:49] James: To make this song the best song possible to benefit both parties The next thing is if you're getting larger artists to feature on your tracks [00:08:00] that's going to boost your reputation It's as simple as that obviously if somebody's a scumbag, you don't want to work with them But if they are well respected in the industry in the music world and you get them on your track People are going to know that you are legit.

[00:08:13] James: You are actually an artist who's trying to make a career out of this. So be sure to look out for that. and speaking of looking out for things, here's some of the things that you want to be sure you find in a potential feature artist. The first is artistic synergy. If there's style and ethos. In sync with you, that's not going to be a good match in most cases.

[00:08:32] James: You want there to be differences, but not massive. You don't want polar opposites. You want somebody who's in your genre, who understands your genre, and is going to be willing to bring their perspectives to your music, but isn't necessarily going to pull you in the wrong direction. So they don't have to be an exact match, but you don't want anyone who's just completely out of left field.

[00:08:53] James: The next thing is mutual respect. This is so important. It needs to be somebody

[00:08:57] James: who respects your work, and you [00:09:00] respect their work, because if that doesn't happen, you're not going to enjoy working with each other, it's as simple as that. And if you don't enjoy working with each other, then you're not going to put out a good product. You also want to be sure that they have a relevant fanbase, because maybe they're huge fans of your band, or you're huge fans of their band and you have the respect and you have the synergy But if there's no overlap in the demographics of the fan base Then it's not going to be a good fit because any boosts you get from it You're going to be marketing to the wrong people which means that maybe your spotify algorithm is wrong Or maybe they just listen to your stuff And skip it after the first 10 seconds, which is really bad.

[00:09:37] James: That looks terrible for the Spotify algorithms. You want people to listen to as much of the song as possible, not people who are going to listen to a few seconds and then skip. be sure that you have that relevant fan base. There is some overlap between your fan base and the other artists.

[00:09:52] James: and then last but not least, you need somebody who is willing to let you tag them in the Spotify release. Not just the individual contributor, [00:10:00] the name of the vocalist, but also the band. for example, taking Soren and New Politics, if we were releasing this now, we did it back in the day before Spotify was really popular.

[00:10:08] James: It came out in 2012. But if we were doing this now, we would want it to be released as Denner Personality, Soren Hansen, New Politics, rather than just dented personality Soren Hansen. Because Soren Hansen has Zero monthly listeners on Spotify. Sorry about that man, but new politics has 500, 000 and this reminded me of a great example a few months ago There was an artist named Jackson Gamble who released a new song featuring new politics And it doesn't even say David Boyd of new politics It just says new politics I can tell it's David's voice on there.

[00:10:42] James: Maybe Soren's on it, too. I'm not sure But they tagged new politics. And now I know who Jackson Gamble is. It's a pretty fun song. Money makes the world go around.

[00:10:50] James: That'll also be in the show notes at Bandhive. rocks slash one nine seven point being you need to find an artist and their management team realistically, who's willing [00:11:00] to let you. Tag the artist and the person on Spotify

[00:11:03] James: now before we wrap things up. One thing I want to talk about is low end features They are just not worth it. There are so many risks that come with associating with the wrong people you could damage your reputation You could show lack of commitment, or you could even have low quality output if you have the wrong people on your features.

[00:11:21] James: Tread very carefully with this, because this is going to be on record for forever, realistically. that probably means your friends who don't really do much in the music world, even if they have a great voice, they're not necessarily going to be great features.

[00:11:35] James: You want them on the album? Have them do gang vocals or something like that. Have them do a chant in a group. But they're not necessarily a featured artist on that song because they're not going to have a big effect on your numbers, whether positive or negative. On the other hand, there's artists like Kellen Quinn from Sleeping With Sirens.

[00:11:53] James: He is on Every single track I've ever heard. Now that's obviously an exaggeration. But he does so many [00:12:00] features, a lot of people have gotten sick of it. I know I have, and I've heard this from other people as well. What happens is, a new song featuring Kellan Quinn comes out, and my reaction is literally, Ugh, another one featuring Kellan Quinn?

[00:12:13] James: I'm not going to bother listening to it, because they all sound the same. It's just… Here's a song. Second verse, Kellan Quinn. Cool, rest of the song. None of them are really that good, which tells me that Kellan Quinn is probably just going out and taking whatever features he can get paid for, whether he believes in that song or not.

[00:12:31] James: And hey, he's making money, nothing wrong with that. He's also, in my opinion, overdoing it because I literally Kellan Quinn feature. I just kind of groan. I'm like, ugh, another one? Okay. Well, I'm gonna skip it. Because there's so many of them out there. It's not unique. It doesn't stand out in any way. So, don't get somebody who sings on every single song they're offered.

[00:12:52] James: Get somebody who's unique. Somebody who will only sing on your song if they believe in it. Now, maybe you have to pay them, maybe you don't. That's up to you if you [00:13:00] can afford it and what they ask for. I'm not saying don't pay. What I am saying is make sure you get somebody who is selective with what songs they will feature on.

[00:13:09] James: You need to prioritize quality over quantity when it comes to a feature. So you don't want all your songs to have a feature unless, you know, you're an instrumental band and you need a different singer for every song and that's the route you want to go, which you know, in that case, that's fine.

[00:13:22] James: I support that. But if you have your own singer, let them sing. If you have 10 tracks, maybe two, three can have a featured artist. The rest should be you. So our final point here is when it comes to approaching people for collaborations, there's going to be. Different etiquette depending on if you're the larger artist or the smaller artist.

[00:13:44] James: I'm guessing most of the people here are going to be the smaller artist so we'll start with that one. If you're reaching out to someone bigger, try to find out the right parties to contact. If they are massive, they're going to have a management company and you can reach out to them unless you already have a personal [00:14:00] connection with this artist.

[00:14:01] James: On the other hand, if they are a mid level artist who is active on social media, try to befriend them on social media. Just, make a little effort here and there to kinda get them to know your name. And that way, when you make the ask, you can ask them directly and it's not gonna be weird. You don't want to ask them out of the blue.

[00:14:22] James: Hey man, would you be on my song? no, you want to establish a little bit of a relationship first because then they're going to be much more likely to say yes, and they're much more likely to not ask for money. So it's absolutely worth going out there and doing your best to establish that relationship first.

[00:14:40] James: On the other hand, if you're the larger artist, as long as there's a good fit, you can basically ask whoever and say, Hey, would you want to be on one of our songs? And they're probably going to say yes, again, as long as there's that good fit. So, reach out and talk to them about it.

[00:14:54] James: you want to have a little bit of a chat before you just say, Hey, do you want to do this? [00:15:00] chances are good that you're going to be able to get them on board Pretty easily. One thing to keep in mind though is that you want to show the benefits for both parties. So if you're reaching out to a larger artist and they don't know you, it's a cold outreach, it's email or social media or whatever, expect that they might ask for money. And then you can say, Hey, there's benefits on both sides.

[00:15:17] James: We get some marketing if you let us tag us and we'll pay you. If you don't let us tag us, we're not going to pay because know, obviously we want your voice on this, but we also have to recognize that. If we're paying for this, we want to get something out of it that helps grow our band.

[00:15:30] James: So we want to have the marketing angle. Can you please clear with your band and your management that we're going to tag the band in the release on Spotify? On the other hand, if you're the larger artist, it's pretty easy to say, here's the benefit. You get free marketing for singing on this song.

[00:15:45] James: In exchange, we get your voice. Just so we can have something a little different for this song We feel like it needs XYZ and you're a good fit for that because of ABC

[00:15:54] James: no matter what you do Professionalism here is so incredibly important if you hit somebody up and they say [00:16:00] yeah, it'll be 800 to do a feature or 2, 000 or whatever they ask for if you can't afford that that's fine But give them a polite decline. Don't ghost them. Don't freak out on them saying they're greedy.

[00:16:12] James: Don't do anything that could hurt your reputation. if you want to, you can say, Hey, you know, that's really not in our budget. Thank you for letting us know. Sorry, it didn't work out, but we appreciate you getting back to us. That's fine. And maybe they'll say, oh, well, we could actually do it for less, maybe we can work something out. Or they'll do it for free at that point.

[00:16:30] James: Who knows? But if you flip out on them, you're just gonna make enemies in the music industry. And that's something you never want. Because, guess what? The music industry is smaller than you think. And word will get around quickly. they are not going to want to work with you and they're going to tell their friends about that too.

[00:16:45] James: So, always be sure that you maintain a professional attitude. It doesn't have to be stuffy or super formal, but just friendly and professional.

[00:16:53] James: So to wrap things up here, a feature is a great way to expose your band to a larger [00:17:00] audience or a new audience if you're working with a smaller artist on this feature. But no matter what you do. Be sure that you have the right fit because if it's not the right fit, you're not going to get much benefit from it at all.

[00:17:12] James: That fit is so incredibly important that if you mess that part up, you're probably going to be worse off than doing no feature at all.

[00:17:20] James: That does it for this episode of the band have podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. I really appreciate it. And I hope that you'll go out there now and seek out some valuable features for your next release. Because if you do this right, like I said, it can expose you to a new audience in the best of possible ways, and you'll grow your fan base.

[00:17:39] James: On the other hand, if you do it wrong, just don't do it wrong. Please do not do it wrong. don't hire a Kellyanne Quinn or anyone else who oversaturates the market with their voice and don't hire people who are sketchy because if you hire someone sketchy, you are going to be associated with them and you don't want that association.

[00:17:55] James: ever. we'll be back with another brand new episode of the podcast next Tuesday [00:18:00] at 6am eastern time right here in your favorite podcast app. Until then, I hope you have a great week, stay safe, and of course as always, keep rockin