[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 170 of the Bandhive Podcast. It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. This week on the show I have a very special guest, Daniel Rinaldi. How are you doing today, Daniel?

[00:00:16] Daniel: I am.

[00:00:17] James: I'm glad to hear that. So the reason I wanted to have you on the show is that mental health is something that is incredibly important in the music business and is something that I feel, you know, that I don't have the statistics to back this up, but I feel is disproportionately affecting musicians and creatives as a whole.

[00:00:34] James: And you happen to be not only a musician, but also a mental health counselor and a certified grief counselor. So I'm stoked to have you here and talk about what artists can do to improve their mental health. Make sure that they don't end up completely falling apart because that's not what you want.

[00:00:51] James: We've seen too many artists over the years who just end up either falling apart, they burn out, or they end up killing themselves. All kinds of [00:01:00] nasty stuff that we don't want. A single person to have to go through. So whatever we can do to prevent that, I want to dig as deep as possible as we can in, 45 minutes to an hour, which we can't go that deep, but we can try.

[00:01:11] James: Before we jump into things though, can you share a little bit about your background, first of all, as a musician, and then what inspired you to go into the mental health field?

[00:01:20] Daniel: so in the early two thousands I joined a band called Bed Light for Blue Eyes that was signed to Trust Kill Records. And we toured for about four or five years, put out a record. And then after that I did solo work. I joined other bands, but I've always had. one or both feet in the music industry over the years.

[00:01:44] Daniel: And after my band broke up and after I kind of took a step away from music, I decided to go back to school. And I got a bachelor's in psychology and then I was kind of like, where do I go from here? I dabbled in [00:02:00] special education for a while. And it wasn't until I saw a great need where I was at.

[00:02:05] Daniel: I was at like the middle school level doing special education and I saw a big need for help in the mental health end of the spectrum there. So I decided to go back to school again, and I got my master's in clinical mental health. And now I've been working in the mental health field for probably five plus years at this point.

[00:02:26] James: that's great. I mean, what better inspiration than seeing what the future generation needs, right?

[00:02:31] James: that's huge. And you, especially now, we were talking a bit before the show about now things are much less stigmatized than they were 10 or 15 years ago. But also, if you think about the pandemic, I've seen the reports of how many people are like, their mental health is in shambles because of the pandemic, because of the isolation.

[00:02:48] James: So think if there's a time to focus on this, it's now

[00:02:51] Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, we still have so much, road to travel as far as de-stigmatizing mental [00:03:00] health, especially when we look at our musicians and our creatives and athletes or whoever it might be. So we, we have such a long way to go, but we are definitely making strides, especially with.

[00:03:13] Daniel: Podcast willing to talk about it and artists and creatives that are brave enough to come on and talk about their own experience, because that helps some 12 year old kid who's struggling in the same way look at it and go, wow, you mean I can tell my parents about this, or I can go to my school counselor, or I can ask to go to therapy.

[00:03:33] Daniel: it just helps, you know, more and more of the younger generation to kind of get involved in their mental health and be open about it.

[00:03:40] James: Yeah, absolutely. That seems so important. Just that like it's okay to talk about it, And I think that's what a lot of people historically didn't realize, like you were mentioning before. People just kind of bottle it up or they self-medicated and that's not healthy.

[00:03:53] Daniel: when I look back to my time, you know, in the early two thousands, especially coming from the musician, like [00:04:00] touring band side of it. no one talked about mental health. No one talked about anxiety. No one talked about depression. No one talked about anything.

[00:04:08] Daniel: You just kept going because you needed to fulfill a quota, you needed to, do things for other people. and you just went and you, did your thing and you got in the back of the van or the bus or whatever way you were traveling and you threw your headphones on and went to the next state.

[00:04:25] Daniel: Rinse and repeat. There was no talk about it at all, ever

[00:04:29] James: Yeah. Which to me, that sounds awful. if I were in that kind of situation, I don't think I would handle that well either. having somebody you can talk to is so incredibly important.

[00:04:38] Daniel: I got asked one time, like, if you, were you now in your band, then do you things would be different? And I was like, well, yeah, my anxiety would've been way down. My want to isolate from even my band members, guys that I was sharing the road with, guys that were like my brothers.

[00:04:55] Daniel: There were days where I was like, please don't talk to me. Please don't come near me [00:05:00] because I just don't know how to deal with this. And I knew about therapy and things like that, but it wasn't something that was even possible on the road. There were no apps, there were no resources. not that, like I totally fully agree with some of those more commercialized things, but like there was none of that.

[00:05:20] Daniel: So you just were forced into like, I always explained it this way, were like a bottled up soda shaking yourself up the whole time until you got home, and then you unfortunately blew up on your, maybe it was your parents, your partner, your friends, and then you couldn't go on the next tour or you quit your band or you, whatever it was.

[00:05:40] James: that, that sounds truly awful. Like having that, first of all, affecting you in such a deep way, but then affecting those around you, especially like the people you care about most. so, thankfully, you know, a lot of people these days who struggle with mental health are aware of it, and they do seek help.

[00:05:53] James: But for people who might not be aware of what their symptoms add up to or could be adding up to,[00:06:00] or people who think they're fine, but Something feels wrong suddenly. At what point would you suggest that people seek help from a professional?

[00:06:08] Daniel: For me, I always think earlier the better. If something feels like it's causing struggle to your everyday life and causing you not to be able to perform the tasks that you're supposed to perform or, be present in your everyday life in a functional way, then that's when you should definitely go seek help.

[00:06:31] Daniel: And. I always err on the side of caution where it's like, get in there sooner than later. Let someone who is working in that field tell you you don't have a ton of symptoms going on, but maybe, therapy isn't right for you right now, or maybe this is better for you at this point.

[00:06:50] Daniel: But I would always say like, the sooner, the better to kind of a address those things that are going on in your life is always the most important. Because [00:07:00] one symptom leads to two leads to three leads to four leads to 20. And then you put yourself in a position to, self-medicate.

[00:07:07] Daniel: Some people, struggle. with, suicide ideation, things of that nature. So I would always suggest getting in there, as soon as you feel like it's, affecting your day-to-day life.

[00:07:18] James: Yeah, that sounds like a good rule of thumb. Now the other problem is, and this doesn't go for everywhere in the US but for example, I'm in Vermont, which is very rural, and sometimes if you don't have a therapist it can take up to six months to find one. Is there something people who on a wait list that long can do to get help sooner?

[00:07:36] James: Are there other options?

[00:07:38] Daniel: I think there's a big misconception when it comes to finding a therapist. A lot of people want to use their insurance for obvious reasons. It lessens the cost. Sometimes it's completely free. whatever it might be. , I would go in and look at your resources and look to see who provides things like sliding scale.

[00:07:59] Daniel: a lot of [00:08:00] private pay providers offer significantly discounted rates, and what you might find is sometimes that discount is even less than your copay. So there's a lot of information that people don't have, or they hear private pay and they go, oh, that's gonna be a lot of money.

[00:08:15] Daniel: I'm gonna have to be paying someone 200 and something dollars. There are a lot of people out there that will provide that. There's also, for every person with a six month wait list, there are people out there that have pro bono spots on their caseload. I know for me, I have a lot of discounted rate pro bono spots.

[00:08:32] Daniel: I always offer that through the group practice I work for allowing those spots for people who maybe aren't able to use their insurance, don't have insurance. But you have to know that that exists. People don't know that. People don't know how to ask for sliding scale, discounted rates.

[00:08:48] Daniel: So communication is key. and knowing your, what resources are available to you, in a place like Vermont or even more remote, right? Like even a place that where maybe there's two providers in the, [00:09:00] your whole area where you go to Boston, there's probably, 6, 7, 8 to a hundred thousand providers within like a 10 block radius, as opposed to a small town in Vermont where you're like, there's only one mental health counselor and they are booked until four years from now.

[00:09:17] Daniel: with the mental health crisis. That is all over the country. The wait times are incredible

[00:09:24] James: Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. First of all, I love that you brought up these other options, like the sliding scale or even pro bono. if people ask for it, and I imagine that probably a lot of musicians will qualify for that just because of the nature of being a musician with relatively unstable income.

[00:09:41] James: Maybe you're not even turning a profit on your towards that kind of stuff. if it's income based, that's probably a very good option. But also, yeah, just imagining like in Alaska or somewhere out there

[00:09:52] James: when you were saying a tiny town, some people are incredibly isolated and. They don't leave their town for weeks on end and that alone [00:10:00] seems like something that would contribute to mental health issues, like not getting out of your, little bubble.

[00:10:04] Daniel: And one thing I've also found helpful, and it's the way everyone consumes now is, getting onto some of these platforms and asking questions some of these social platforms. Twitter is, although it has, moments, we all know that, and any social media for that matter, but I found Twitter to be one of the more helpful ones for being able to reach out and say, I'm looking for someone in this state who provides this for this, amount of money, or takes this insurance or provides pro bono.

[00:10:37] Daniel: And more times than not, someone will be able to point you in a direction. obviously I can't, practice in Vermont, but if you messaged me and said, Hey, I noticed you're a counselor.

[00:10:51] Daniel: I'm really struggling to find somebody. I can't help you, but I can help you find a resource, find something. So don't be [00:11:00] afraid to reach out as well, because there are people out there that even though they can't help you directly, will be able to help you along your journey.

[00:11:07] James: you say you couldn't help someone who's in Vermont. That means you're licensed in

[00:11:11] James: Massachusetts

[00:11:12] Daniel: yeah, Massachusetts. I used to be in Florida, It's just too much uh, keep track of all that when you're not in that state. So it's just easier to, practice in the state you live in

[00:11:22] James: Yeah. And, and I would imagine that there are plenty of people in Massachusetts for you to help, that it's, not starving for clients. You have more than you can take on, probably.

[00:11:32] Daniel: I'm almost full. I'm almost that capacity. hey, if you're in Massachusetts and you're listening and you're looking for mental health services, if I can't help you, I could find someone who can.

[00:11:42] James: at Daniel Al Music is, you're an Instagram, but you also have my noise.co, as well [email protected]. So that's a website and an Instagram handle if people wanna reach out, which of those three options is the best way to get in touch with you?

[00:11:55] Daniel: Any of them. I check them all, all the time. I've learned from being in a [00:12:00] band things like social media, things can fall to the bottom or get put in a different folder. So I always constantly do like a sweep of all of those things. ones that have like my actual name attached to it, I check more often.

[00:12:13] Daniel: My noise is kind of like my alter ego in, it was my way to attach the thought of a being a musician and the thought of being a therapist into the same idea of like, , it's me, but there's a name and there's a, imagery there, that people can kind of maybe get something out of.

[00:12:31] Daniel: So yeah, D Rinaldi music. Daniel Rinaldi music. I'm not hard to find

[00:12:37] James: Okay, those will all be in the show notes as [email protected] slash one 70. That's the number 170. any of Daniel's links or anything else we mentioned will all be there and that way you just remember one link and you can click on everything and find Daniel that way as well. So to kind of pivot this, Daniel, to more practical day-to-day advice,

[00:12:57] James:

[00:12:57] James: what would you recommend that, [00:13:00] in general, most people should do on a day-to-day basis?

[00:13:03] James: Just to keep themselves healthy mentally?

[00:13:06] Daniel: I like to start my own day with something. called the Sanctuary. Model it's, what am I feeling? Where am I feeling it and who can help me with it? And it just kind of helps you with emotion identification, right? So starting your day off, knowing what you need for that day is a good start, Finding functional coping mechanisms, building a coping skills repertoire is always good. And self-care. Self-care, self-care, self-care. there's a big misconception that self-care is selfish. It's not. it's one of those things where, you feel like you're taking time for yourself and you're taking away from other things or other people, however, , you can't pour from an empty cup is something that I was always taught, You have to fill that cup up so you're able to function and do the things you're doing. So I think starting your day off, recognizing what you might need and how you can kind [00:14:00] of tackle that is important. And then kind of coming up with coping skills throughout your day that are functional wherever you are. So, right. If you're at work, you can't maybe do certain things that you would do at home. So if you're at work and you're feeling anxious, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna do it? is gonna know that you need that help?

[00:14:21] Daniel: being able to communicate your need, being able to, say, okay, I'm at work. I know I need 15 minutes to kind of recharge. , how am I gonna do that? And then I'm big on like, mindfulness. I really like journaling, and writing, being a writer, lyricist, whatever you want to call me, I gravitate towards getting the thoughts out of here and in front of me.

[00:14:45] Daniel: And then looking at it from a different perspective, live moments in a parallel. Like you're kind of just outside the moment so that you can, see it from a different perspective. You could take yourself out of your own situation and go, if that was somebody else, what could [00:15:00] I give to them that would be helpful in this situation? know for me personally, I am way better at giving someone else that sort of information as opposed to practicing it myself in my own situations of anxiety. So taking myself out of the situation and looking at it from that different perspective is, helpful.

[00:15:20] Daniel: But utilizing that sanctuary model, coming up with a repertoire of, functional coping skills for your day-to-day life are an important start cuz not everyone can access therapy every single day of the week.

[00:15:34] James: Right. Yeah. And that seems like something that even people who could benefit from therapy every day, that sounds very time consuming as well, which, you know, I'm sure the time is worth it, but if somebody is already stressed about, let's say, working two jobs and having a family, Adding another time stressor might not be the best thing for them, even if it would be incredibly beneficial.

[00:15:55] James: Right.

[00:15:55] Daniel: Yeah. It's extremely hard. It's extremely hard when you have, a [00:16:00] job Maybe you have kids, maybe you have a partner, but maybe you just are afraid to walk into that therapy room or that virtual office where you don't know, what therapy is gonna be.

[00:16:15] Daniel: There's a lot that happens. there's a big misconception there, and it's hard sometimes to get through that door and really address some hard stuff sometimes.

[00:16:25] James: Yeah. Well, just on that note, for anyone listening, take it from me. Like I've gone to therapy a couple times and. was scary at first going in, and then I got there and I sat down and I was like, oh, this is fine. I'm sure that's not the experience for everyone, but if you're thinking about therapy and you think you might need it, from my personal experience as a, uh, layman, I don't know really anything about the mental health field, I would say give it a shot.

[00:16:48] James: if you think you need help, go do it. that's my opinion at least, or my experience with seeking therapy.

[00:16:54] Daniel: absolutely. And I think of it this way and even for myself, being a therapist who [00:17:00] seeks therapy, view it as a conversation. It's just a conversation. Yeah, there's hard things that come up, but you are the expert of you in the room. A lot of people go into therapy thinking they're gonna get like maybe a finger wagged at them.

[00:17:16] Daniel: or that person is gonna make them feel less than because you're walking to a room and here's this person. Maybe they have a whole bunch of degrees sitting in the background and a whole bunch of fancy books that have a whole bunch of words that don't make sense. So it's intimidating. It could be very intimidating, but know that you are there for you and the person sitting across from you, 99.9% of the time, is there for you as well.

[00:17:46] Daniel: And that's what I tell my clients all the time, like, you are the expert of you. I'm not here to heal. I'm not here to give advice. I'm merely here to validate you, hear you, see, you sit with you and hold [00:18:00] space for you for whatever you need. Are there times that you take off the therapist hat maybe.

[00:18:05] Daniel: but most of the time a space for you to come in. So if anyone is ever feeling a certain type of way about therapy and getting started, one, feel free to reach out. I'll, I'll gladly talk about therapy with anyone. but also two, just try it, right? You could always walk away.

[00:18:21] Daniel: You could always walk back out the door, but you never know until you try it. could be helpful to you.

[00:18:27] James: that sounds like a, great summary of what it could be. Now one thing you mentioned, I think, is that the therapist is there to validate you, hear you, and listen to you there seems to be a stigma of like, oh, the therapist is gonna tell me I'm doing something wrong, or, tell me what to do.

[00:18:41] James: Like, tell me how to fix my life. Which from my understanding, that's not the case. And I, I know you already mentioned, you know, they're not gonna wag fingers at you cuz they're not trying to make people feel worse about themselves. the expectation should not be to have a therapist, quote, unquote fix you.

[00:18:55] James: the expectation is more, a therapist will help you get to [00:19:00] the end goals that you have for your own mental health, but you still have to do the work yourself. Right?

[00:19:04] Daniel: Absolutely. The best way I always explain it is I try and be the person that holds a mirror up in that session for you to look at and you to recognize certain things and you to know that you have the ability to do all of this stuff. like the old school driver's ed cars, right?

[00:19:23] Daniel: Where the person sitting has the steering wheel just in case we make a wrong turn, so my job is to go, maybe go this way. Maybe try and go this way. you didn't wanna turn down that street? Why? And giving someone the space to Yeah. do the work themselves and be there as someone who's going to sit and hold space and allow them to say what they need to say, feel the way they need to feel and provide what they need to move in their life, to know that they can do it.

[00:19:55] Daniel: That they can, increase their ability to do something, decrease their [00:20:00] ability to do something. it's not my job to sit there and be like this, healing advice guru. the person will always be the expert of themselves. They know themselves the best and they, they know what they're capable of and what they can do.

[00:20:14] Daniel: I'm just there to give them that, space to know that.

[00:20:18] James: Yeah. Essentially you're giving them the tools to better understand themselves

[00:20:22] Daniel: Yeah. It's definitely a good way to put it, right? Like it's, providing them with certain things where they can go and take it and say like, this works for me. This doesn't work for me. This works for me. This doesn't work for. And the things that do work for them, hopefully decrease some of the things that they're coming in with and recognizing that are hindering their every day.

[00:20:43] James: Okay. Well, because not everyone is gonna seek therapy, which I hope everyone who needs it does, but we're both involved in the music scene. What do you suggest that anyone who's listening can do to support their friends who are struggling?

[00:20:59] Daniel: What I would [00:21:00] hope, and this is a big hope, as it comes to the music scene, is that there becomes more of a focus on the mental health of everyone, not just the. artist, right? the techs, the tour manager, the production, And I think we need to talk about it more. I think there needs to be resources in place. Like if I'm a booking agent, I should also be looking for local resources How do we become more informed as a scene to help the artist, but also help the fan, right. I think that's something that we miss out on.

[00:21:37] Daniel: Sometimes there's a big disconnect. ways to support is like open and honest communication, talking about these things and providing a space to do so. Cuz I feel like there's not really a space to do so right now. I mean, some artists do it, some. Fans and friends do it, but I don't think we're at the, like, pinnacle of [00:22:00] mental wellness in anywhere. I mean anywhere, , I don't think we're at the pinnacle of mental wellness anywhere. But yeah, I think we have to be more open and honest and we have to start saying, we're not doing this correctly. How can we make it better?

[00:22:15] James: Yeah, I think that improvement, that goes back to like, the core of mental health is always thinking about what we can do as people to become better, Whether that's, becoming a better person or understanding that the people we are are worthwhile, making that a space. That almost seems like an idea for some, app founder, which is not me, . I don't want to get into the tech world that seems like a big opportunity there to say, Hey, this is a place where you can go collectively and discuss mental health in a safe and supportive environment.

[00:22:45] Daniel: I have a million ideas, but some of that is increasing that community and breaking down these things that were put in place way before you and I were around. Especially when we look in the music scene, [00:23:00] there are power dynamics. There are all sorts of different things that are at play that don't allow for Those communities to be built. So there's a lot of work to be done before we can build that. One of my biggest things is the artist to fan power dynamic and how do you break that down so that we are able to decrease some of that power dynamic. So it does make it an easier environment to build a community in, and it makes it more welcoming for the patron and also for the artist, we see a lot of that that's cropped up over the past couple years of like, this is not a mentally well place. And when people aren't taking care of themselves, things happen. And in order for those things not to happen, what do we need to do first? We need to address that there actually mental health issues or there are other issues. And that starts at the top, right? That starts at the label,[00:24:00] the booking agent, the management, the PR that starts at the top. And it has to come down to how do we have this band or artist or creative out there, and how are they mentally, how are they physically, how are they emotionally?

[00:24:15] Daniel: And if any of those are not in a certain range, we need to do something I think when we see some of those issues, like self-medicating, inappropriate behaviors with, people. So I think increasing the knowledge and resources and actually having the people that are. Making the money involved in that process and not just saying like, when you're home on your own time, go to therapy and we trust that you did it. We trust that you're all taking care of yourself. But actually caring about everything as a whole instead of just one kind of piece.

[00:24:50] James: Yeah, so adding top down accountability to the equation to make sure that no one gets left behind essentially.

[00:24:56] Daniel: that's a lot of what we see now and we see a lot [00:25:00] of, issues surrounding like labels and, different people that just don't know how to deal with those situations.

[00:25:08] Daniel: and then it decreases the trust from the consumer. and then you see things fall apart or it not be the healthy scene that it should be. Right? if I'm just speaking about music, you know, especially if you're looking in the, emo genre or the post hardcore, or the metal core scene, whatever that is, a lot of those kids, adults are going there because that's the only place they can be themselves.

[00:25:32] Daniel: That's the only place they can get out of maybe an abusive household or bullying at school or whatever. But if they go there and they feel unsafe there too, where else are they gonna eventually go? Or what else are they gonna eventually have nothing? that's where we see an increase of, teens and adults, are just not in a good place.

[00:25:53] Daniel: And we, as the people making money off of them, should think of that as well. if

[00:25:59] Daniel: that makes [00:26:00] sense.

[00:26:00] James: Yeah. In a way you don't wanna bite the hand that feeds. You wanna make sure that you're caring for the hand that feed.

[00:26:07] Daniel: a absolutely. and I think the more and bands are willing, and there are a lot now that are willing to talk about mental health and are willing to talk to other people about mental health. when that happens, there is success. when you have a band, like, Dayseeker is one of like my favorite bands right now, right.

[00:26:25] Daniel: Rory is willing to talk so much about his mental health struggles. And I think what happens when you do that is you have a fan, go, wait, he's not on this pedestal that I had him on. He's just like me. And it creates a healthier dynamic, and it creates a healthier relationship. and it creates a safer place because he knows, they know, the band knows you build this environment that's just much more healthy than some of these other bands or some of these other artists that we've seen that, take that power dynamic to the max and abuse that power.

[00:26:59] Daniel: And [00:27:00] it creates an unsafe scene and it creates a place where people don't want to.

[00:27:05] James: a hundred percent. Especially, scandals that surrounded the scene and still do, but especially from like 2015 to 2018, it seemed like every month there was another band that something came out of how terrible they were as human beings I'm glad to see it seems to have slowed.

[00:27:22] James: But the fact that it's still happening and these bands are still going out and doing things shows that there's still a clear crisis, they need help.

[00:27:29] Daniel: Yeah, for sure. I mean, and it's one of those things where sometimes we need to throw nostalgia aside. And we really need to recognize just giving like the singer of a band a year off so that things blow over and then bringing him back and rewarding the band with like an arena tour isn.

[00:27:48] Daniel: Healthy, and that's not what should happen, you just told all of the people who had the strength to come forward and the bravery to come forward towards someone who [00:28:00] is on this pedestal, right? You just told them they don't matter. And then you told everyone else that was behind those people supporting them, that they don't matter.

[00:28:08] Daniel: And what you told them that what does matter is fill in your pockets with money. And sure, people love money makes the world go round. But at the end of the day, we need to make safer spaces and recognize that those things aren't okay, and people need to be held accountable.

[00:28:25] Daniel: not just the perpetrator, right? Or the person that is. doing things that are inappropriate, but we also need to hold these labels and these management companies accountable as well when they knowingly put these bands back on tour or get them these giant festivals.

[00:28:43] Daniel: I remember making a remark when the, I think it was like the, when we were young festival, if that was, it was called, how many bands that were problematic were on that bill and everyone threw everything out the window because of nostalgia, because they wanted to feel the [00:29:00] way they did when they were 16. That's cool. And that could happen. But we don't need to continue to, provide a space for people who aren't willing, to make a safer place for the people that are coming to show.

[00:29:15] James: Yeah, absolutely. you don't need to provide more opportunities for the culprits to hurt people. I a hundred percent agree with what you're saying about starting at the top and making sure that, like you say, about money. But you know what, there's just probably a hundred other bands that could have been on that bill, which I think is like 65 bands total, a hundred other bands that people care about just as much.

[00:29:37] James: Who haven't hurt people. and I'm not saying at all that every band on that bill hurt people. but there was a good handful, maybe two handfuls on there. It's like, Hey, did they have to be on there? No. They, could have been replaced by anyone else. Yellow Card, for example, could have been on it.

[00:29:51] James: As far as I know, there's nothing against them, at least as of now. I hope not. But I think brand new was on that, weren't they? I might be saying the

[00:29:58] James: wrong band name right now.

[00:29:59] Daniel: [00:30:00] I don't know if brand new was on there, but I'm pretty sure that brand new is going to do some sort of touring and to allow that to happen and be rewarded it's not okay just to go away for a little bit, think it blew over and then come back.

[00:30:14] Daniel: or it's not okay to like put out these like victim blaming statements on six different social media avenues and then come back and pretend nothing happened when like, you apologize first. Then on this like other social media platform, you blamed the victims and then on this other one you totally took back your apology, you know, sort of thing.

[00:30:36] Daniel: So it's like the powers that be are the ones that are going to be able to say, listen. This is what needs to happen. is what's going to happen. And if not, then sorry. we're not moving forward on putting you back out on the road these things are gonna happen again.

[00:30:53] Daniel: Because let's face it, these allegations get thrown out there. These, things get thrown out there. And [00:31:00] because some of these 16 to whatever, and sometimes younger year old people don't have the loudest voice in the room and don't have the resources in the money. oh, it never did anything because they dropped their charge or they dropped their story.

[00:31:17] Daniel: Well, they didn't probably have the money or resources that a band that just sold a million records does.

[00:31:22] James: they might have been bullied into it. They might have gotten a cease and desist.

[00:31:26] Daniel: and we've heard those stories. So it's one of those things where I think creating a safer scene needs to come top down. And the bands that are the ones that are doing the right thing are the ones that need to like lead the charge, of big voices aren't willing to talk about certain things, and I think that needs to change too.

[00:31:47] James: Yeah, absolutely. And I, think there's good news on that front that is, that it's starting to build momentum. I don't know if you've been paying attention to what's going on in Europe right now, but Pantera just got kicked off of a bunch of

[00:31:58] James: festivals, [00:32:00] Because I think it was their singer had done and said some really racist stuff back in like 2016 or 2017, and I believe this was their first time back in Germany since then, or was going to, and they were gonna be on and Park, two big festivals over there.

[00:32:15] James: I saw it from Deton Hoen, which is like basically the German equivalent of Green Day, like the biggest punk band in Germany. And they were basically saying, Hey, we hear you. Unfortunately we can't do anything. we didn't book it, so we agreed that they shouldn't be here. However, all these other bands like Anti-Flag is still on the bill.

[00:32:32] James: Like all these other left-leaning punk bands are still on the bill. And since they're okay with it, like we're not gonna bail because we're the headliners. And people understandably got upset about that. So then they said, well, we're gonna talk about it, we'll see what we can do. And then like two days later, all of a sudden Pantera was off the bill.

[00:32:46] James: I can't say what happened, but imagine like here in the US Green Day is headlining a festival and they say to the promoter, let's say Live Nation, they say, Hey, live Nation, you know, we heard this band did some racist stuff They have like [00:33:00] 10% of the fans we do, we're not playing. If they're on the Bill Live Nation is gonna say, okay, green Day, you got it.

[00:33:06] James: They're gone. unfortunately imagining that unless there was a clause in the contract that Pantera has that said they don't get paid. If they do something terrible, they're probably still gonna get paid for the appearance, but they're not on the festival and they're not gonna get booked again.

[00:33:20] James: Because now that promoter knows, hey, people aren't happy with this, so we're gonna lose money again if we book them and then have to kick them off, So there seems to be some progress there. And I hope that expands because everybody is very aware of racial injustice right now. And I hope that that awareness expands to other areas.

[00:33:39] James: So predators. in the music scene. Bad people in general in the music scene don't get those opportunities so they stay off of those bills in the first place.

[00:33:47] Daniel: I'm hopeful that, once it hurt for some of these labels to lean into mental health professionals and other people to like be on board part of the thing is a lot of these [00:34:00] places, they don't know how to do it. And realizing, just because you are a president of this label or whatever you might be in the scene.

[00:34:08] Daniel: It's okay to say, I don't know how to do this, or I don't have the, the skills or the tools to do this, so I need to ask for help. Instead of just going like, man, we're just gonna throw it out there and we're gonna do it. I think there are plenty of companies out there and plenty of people out there that wanna help.

[00:34:24] Daniel: there's a big musician therapist pipeline. you'd be surprised how many people would wanna be involved with certain things to give that level of like, Hey, think of it from this perspective. don't think of the money here.

[00:34:38] Daniel: Think about. what message this sends or think about this, you know, I'm curious to know how this decision makes sense. we need to be more collaborative. We need to like open the door to people instead of just thinking that we all know best and work collaboratively to make it so that these scenes survive for a [00:35:00] hundred more years, and they survive in a place that's safe and healthy and, just something that, like, you'd want your own kid or grandkid or great grandkid to access one day.

[00:35:10] James: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that goes back to what you're saying about a lot of people only feel safe in the scene. Like that's where they go to escape whatever problems they have, and that's their happy place. Well, we need to be sure that we have that safe space for them, that they can continue going there for years to come, because ultimately, if it ends up not being a safe space, the seat is gonna get smaller and. and then it's gonna be gone for everyone. That's really what it comes down to. So even for the listeners who think, oh, well that doesn't affect me like I'm a white male, I don't care. Yeah. It is gonna affect you. And let's say even if it doesn't, you should still care because these are human beings we're talking about.

[00:35:48] Daniel: and that's where like the, the age old power dynamic that I mentioned before comes down is like the white male power dynamic in that music scene. Right. and what that means [00:36:00] or any other power dynamic in that scene and what it means, and it does affect everyone, whether, whether you wanna know it or not.

[00:36:06] Daniel: Like even if, I am removed from selling records at this point, right? Like there is no be life or Luis's CD at f y E anymore. You know? Like there's no fy e anymore. So it's not happening. if I'm not willing to collaborate and help where I can, and that scene dies, a whole part of my life goes away and a whole part of this legacy goes away.

[00:36:32] Daniel: So people need to start thinking of like, well, what does it matter? Well, it does matter because I. , want to continue this scene, and I wanted to continue in a healthy way because that's how I wanted my scene when I was involved in it to be, I wanted it to be a place where a kid could come and feel accepted and feel like they could, have rainbow colored hair a piercing through every inch of their face, and come to me and say, wow, [00:37:00] your music helped me.

[00:37:00] Daniel: I'm going through a rough time at home and this really helped me, or this song saved my life. Creating those spaces for people to be able to do that. Because like I said, if they don't have that outlet, then where else do they go? What else do they start doing?

[00:37:16] Daniel: So creating those spaces and not thinking you're above not helping.

[00:37:21] James: Yeah, being open to that, genuine human connection. I see we're coming up on an hour here, so I wanna be respectful of your time. I have a couple more questions if you've got a few minutes

[00:37:30] James: still.

[00:37:31] James: So the first one, this is less philosophical and more practical now because, we're both in the northeast where it's short days, gray, cloudy weather, most of the winter.

[00:37:41] James: And in the music scene, most people end up being inside quite a bit, whether that's because they're in a van all day and then they're playing a show all night and then they sleep till, 2:00 PM or whatever. Or just because they're locked away in the studio at all times. So something that awareness has been increasing around the last probably 10 or 15 [00:38:00] years as seasonal effective.

[00:38:01] James: For people who might be affected by that, which I imagine there's a lot of listeners who are, what would you recommend people do to start getting some options, going to help treat that?

[00:38:11] Daniel: . I definitely think focusing on positive experiences, like building positive experiences into those times, right? So if you're someone who knows this is something that affects you or, is something you deal with, build time into, that time of year to provide experiences or moments for yourself, maybe that's time to start a new hobby. Maybe that's time to plan a getaway. Maybe that's time to, plan some social get togethers, I know like, you know, we're in the age of kind of post covid. Maybe we're going back to pre, But, something that helps is planning, building experiences into that building a support network, Social supports and family supports are so [00:39:00] important. Try to have a, system where you can reach out to people when you are feeling that way and they are aware of what you might be going through and they might know how to help you.

[00:39:14] Daniel: I always say communication. Don't bottle things up. don't sit there and isolate and bottle things up. Open up the lines of communication. me. , I always try and balance into my day, like getting outside, even if it's just walking outside, Getting that fresh air into your y lungs, moving your body, you know, like getting that, nervous system going, you know, like disrupting a lot of those, feelings and emotions is so important. those are some hopefully maybe helpful for that.

[00:39:45] James: Yeah, I think so. Like, basically breaking up the monotony of winter isolation, out there, do something different.

[00:39:52] Daniel: use curiosity to build adventure and hope into your, that season or that time period. [00:40:00] if you're a tech person, there are like different lights and different things of that nature.

[00:40:06] Daniel: But I think overall, finding a balance that works, communicating, building a support system and, planning things that will disrupt the isolation and the want to kind of just like, uh, you know what, I'm just gonna go back on my couch or in my bed and not do anything or anything like that.

[00:40:26] Daniel: So I think those are, a couple things that, hey, at least try them.

[00:40:30] James: Yeah, they sound very practical and at least to me they sound fairly easy to do as well. So I think that's a very good thing and I hope that the listeners will soak these up as if they would soak up sunlight and go get

[00:40:42] James: out there. right, Daniel, thank you so much. So we already mentioned if people want to get in touch at D Ren music on [email protected], on Instagram or mynoise.co, the website, people can get in touch with you through any of those.

[00:40:57] James: Additionally, you are with [00:41:00] BH Counseling and Wellness, so for people in Massachusetts, they could reach out to you there, right? Which is BHC w llc. is that the best place to book appointments with you if somebody's in Massachusetts?

[00:41:12] Daniel: Yeah. If someone's in Massachusetts, you know, we provide individual therapies, we provide workshops we provide. , all sorts of wellness things. So yeah, if you're in Massachusetts and you are looking for therapy, you're looking for some sort of workshop and if we don't provide it, like I said, we can find someone who provides it or it might be something that we'll be like, Hey, you know, that sounds like a great idea.

[00:41:36] Daniel: make it happen. Yeah. So BH CW dot LLC is definitely for any therapeutic need in Massachusetts. Feel free.

[00:41:45] James: Nice. Yeah, that sounds like an amazing and supportive environment. hearing how you talk about like, Hey, we're down to try anything and see if it works. you know, especially creatives, might not want like the rigidity of a system and this is how it's done.

[00:41:58] James: They might say, no, this would work better [00:42:00] for me if we do it this other way. So I, I think that's a really great method to follow.

[00:42:04] Daniel: I'll leave you with this one thing, especially if there's, there are creatives listening, right? And this is how flexible and interesting therapy could be. There are sessions where I sit on a, website platform and we create beats and music together. And through that we identify emotions where sometimes we're not able to verbalize them.

[00:42:27] Daniel: We can find sounds and different things that are representative of how we're feeling or what we might be feeling. And that allows us to then continue to talk. But it's not me wagging my finger, it's me being. You're hype man going like, oh my goodness, like that sounds so good. Do that. All right. What were you feeling how does that represent your day? And that's so much different than saying in a cold, sterile environment where you feel like you're just being talked at. So there are other ways and there are [00:43:00] creative things that are, available to people. It's just a matter of finding the people that will do that. And then I think my home in, bh counseling and wellness is a place that provides that for me, but also helps me to provide that for others.

[00:43:14] James: That is so cool. Like I never even imagined that that could be used as therapy, and that sounds like exactly what people who are listening to the show could benefit from. So. I hope that there's somebody from Massachusetts who can benefit from that. Or if you're not from Massachusetts, that you can find somebody who will do that with you Well, Daniel, thank you so much. It's been a blast talking to you. I really think that this episode is gonna be useful for our listeners. Are there any parting words you'd like to leave the audience with?

[00:43:41] Daniel: One of the biggest things that I've been saying lately is be curious when you feel like there's no hope. When you're lacking hope, if you can find curiosity, you can find hope, and then when you find hope, you can rebuild. So that is my biggest, message to [00:44:00] anyone is just to, be curious about everything.

[00:44:02] James: Ah, that's amazing. I love it. Daniel, thank you so much again. I hope you have an amazing day and best of luck.

[00:44:09] Daniel: thank you.

[00:44:09] James: That does it for this episode of the Bandhive Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in listening. I really appreciate it, and I hope that this episode with Daniel Rinaldi has really given you some insight into mental health and what you can do for yourself or for your friends to make sure that everyone in the scene is as safe and healthy as possible. I think it's really important that we as creatives stick together as much as possible just because of in the creative.

[00:44:35] James: There is so much that can be done for mental health or neurodivergence or things like that. You might remember if you were listening a few episodes ago where I mentioned to Matt that a lot of my friends are neurodivergent and specifically have adhd, and Matt said, oh yeah. I have a D H T too.

[00:44:50] James: That just goes to show how common things like this are, and the more we understand how people work, how our brains work [00:45:00] and mental health in general, and are accepting to discuss these things, the better mental health will. The scene. So I hope you take this episode to heart. Share it with somebody who needs it.

[00:45:11] James: You can send them the link, which is Bandhive.rocks/one 70. That's the number, 170. And make sure that the people who need to hear this advice have this advice. And of course, if you do happen to be in Massachusetts and you need help, reach out to Daniel because this was a really fun conversation to have with him.

[00:45:29] James: It was easy to talk to him, and as much as it was a serious subject, , it didn't feel like it was weighing me down. It just felt like, Hey, we're having a conversation about this. It's an important topic, but at the same time, we're not getting dragged down by this even though it's a heavy topic.

[00:45:44] James: So if you do need help and you happen to be in Massachusetts, please reach out to Daniel because I think he would be able to do a lot for you. We'll be back with another brand new episode of the Bandhive Podcast next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern, right here in your favorite podcast app.

[00:45:58] James: Until then, I hope you have a great [00:46:00] week. Stay safe, and of course, as always, keep rocking.