[00:00:00] James: Welcome to episode 159 of the Bandhive Podcast.

[00:00:04] James: It is time for another episode of the Bandhive Podcast. My name is James Cross and I help independent artists tour smart. This week I'm very happy to have back Mr. Matt Ho of Alive and Barcelona who just finished taking a sip of coffee. How are you doing today,

[00:00:16] James: Matt?

[00:00:17] Matt: I'm doing fantastic. Coffee, makes everything wonderful, so I have a nice, huge cup of it, so that makes the day great.

[00:00:24] James: Well, I'm really glad to hear that. And you know what, on my end, I think having you back on the show makes everything fantastic. So it's great to have you here and I'm looking forward to many hundreds of episodes

[00:00:33] James: to

[00:00:34] James: come.

[00:00:34] Matt: Oh, James, you're gonna make me red.

[00:00:36] James: you're already red. You're Ginger and I'm already right cause I have rosacea. We're all red anyway, man, it's a pleasure to have you back here. And I this episode, it, it was gonna. One episode, but we're splitting it up into two. The original topic was going to be health for musicians and we were gonna cover both the mental and the physical side.

[00:00:56] James: And then as we were going through the outline, we kind of realized, hey, this is getting really [00:01:00] long, so this is gonna be part one. Maybe it's gonna be a two part episode, or maybe it's just gonna be two related episodes. But this week on the show we're gonna talk about mental health for musicians. And you Matt, I think we've told on the story before how he really connected back on Warp Tour.

[00:01:16] James: But I think that the day we really became friends more than acquaintances, we were in Homedale, New Jersey. And you had like a family emergency. You were heading home and you were just not having a good day cuz you were stressed, you were worried about your family. And I went over and sat down and we just chatted and I can't remember if it was on the back of your trailer or just a curb or something, whatever it was, we were just chatting and that's when he really connected and were like, Okay.

[00:01:38] James: From that point on, we were friends, not just acquaintances. And this ties in because we were supporting each other mental health is so important for musicians and there are a lot of musicians who tend to have mental health problems or are neuro divergent. being a creative kind of comes with a territory for many people. So I think this is gonna tie in for a lot of people, just because [00:02:00] when I look at my friends in the music world, almost all of them are neuro divergent or have mental health struggles in some way. So the first thing I wanna say is that if this describes you in any way, we're not doing this episode to shame you or call you out or anything like that.

[00:02:16] James: We're just saying, Hey, people have stuff going on in their lives and we want to talk about that to help others and put some resources out there. So the first thing I wanna say, After that whole ramp is that we're not experts. This is just what we've seen that works for us and the people around us. But if you need professional help, there are organizations out there who will help musicians.

[00:02:39] James: Music. Errs and backline are two really good organizations that you can reach out to. Music Errs is national. As far as I know, backline is as well, but there are probably also regional resources available to you in your area if music cares and backline don't offer help in your area or you don't qualify for the [00:03:00] resources they provide.

[00:03:00] James: Now, that all said that. Disclaimer aside, like I said, it's great to have you back, Matt, and I'm excited to cover this topic with you because I think it's important for artists.

[00:03:09] Matt: Absolutely Manam. It's honestly great to be back and it's also great to be talking about something like this cuz you know, like you've said, you creatives in general, we, I think we find a home inside of the sludge. And sometimes, you know, it's, it's hard to wash that sludge off. the very nature of, being a musician in general, is one where you kind of have to face your problems head on.

[00:03:31] Matt: And that's very, very difficult. like you're saying like some people are neuro, divergent. Some people, you might have clinical depression. Some people just might have an overbearing amount of stress in their life for a particular, Instance or whatever, it might not be this consistent thing.

[00:03:45] Matt: maybe it is a consistent thing. Maybe you consistently have this large weight to bear. The big thing is, like this is a very common thing. Being musicians, we, we tend to use those items is our fodder for our songs. ironically, I, I've always said that [00:04:00] lead singers are very emotional group Being a singer and a songwriter, I have to kind of find those less savory stories and I have to kind of try and face them at, you know, head on. And, when you kind of start dwelling on these things, you have two choices. I am crippled by this.

[00:04:19] Matt: I am crushed by this and there's no way out. Or it's like this is the thing I have to face and I have to take the time to understand it, to think about how it applies to my life. To think about, how it applies to this song. for me, I actually use music to work. A lot of my mental health issues because there might be something that I'm feeling, or maybe I just don't understand exactly how to say it in words.

[00:04:45] Matt: Maybe there are, pieces that involve other people, you know, where it's like, I'm feeling stressed out towards my band mates right now. there's too many obligations. I've got three kids at home, I've got a wife. I've gotta make sure I'm doing all these things. And sometimes that can cause me to shut off in my [00:05:00] personal world, the uh, emotional sifting through your own emotions and your own thoughts to me it's integral to music as a whole.

[00:05:09] Matt: You know, I've always thought that mental health and music in general, They walk down the street, hand in hand. Cuz I think we've all had a moment where we've said, oh, music saved my life. it's always with a different band or with a different song or with a different memory or in a different click of friends or whatever, whatever piece of nostalgia that draws us back to that.

[00:05:27] Matt: But it kind of all starts with a socioeconomic reach and a drive for solving a problem. And most of the time that problem is mental. So we want to dive in. We wanna talk about how mental health can really affect your music career and really what it means to, to live a healthy mental life for.

[00:05:50] James: absolutely. Cuz there's just so many ways that low mental health can harm your music career. Whether it's something like you just, you don't have the motivation to work on your [00:06:00] band, either the music side or the business side, cuz they're both important. Um, maybe your band splits up different people into different roles and that's fine and great, but you still need people to be at a functional capacity and ideally a capacity where they're happy with what they're doing.

[00:06:15] James: You don't want people to be in the band and miserable about what they're doing. Or maybe you have some anxiety when it comes to releasing your music or performing in front of people. I get it, I'm not a musician myself, but putting yourself out there can be scary. And for some people that really gets to the amount of anxiety or fear, can be really difficult for other people.

[00:06:37] James: It's just a minor thing. Like, Hey, what if people don't like this? Whether it's just a little tingle in your gut or it's like crippling anxiety. It's not fun, and there are ways to try and mitigate that. But if what you love most is releasing music, but then actual process of releasing it is so gut wrenching for you.

[00:06:57] James: That's not good, cuz then you're not going to [00:07:00] enjoy the actual process of doing what you love most. Or maybe it's something like fear of failure, that can be a really difficult one to deal with as well. are just examples. There are so many other ways that low mental health can affect you as an artist and as a human being.

[00:07:14] James: For years, I didn't realize how many people in the music industry have mental health issues. we all see the headlines, you so and so has Breakdown, meltdown, whatever, and it's like, oh, that sucks.

[00:07:26] James: They went crazy. That's the response a lot of people have, but it's not that, it's They didn't have the resources they needed to properly maintain their mental health. That's really what it comes down to. And by saying that kind of stuff, like, oh, they went crazy. That just perpetuates the stigma that mental health is a taboo to talk about anything like that.

[00:07:46] James: And I've been very, very blessed to have, in my opinion, great mental health for most of my life with, you blip or two here and there with things stressing me out and that kind of stuff. But what really got me is a few months ago, [00:08:00] I did a bunch of research on ADHD and various mental health issues, just because I met some people that have those things and it all started to click.

[00:08:10] James: I'm like, oh my God, like probably 50% of the musicians I know have adhd like it makes so much sense to

[00:08:17] James: me

[00:08:17] James: now.

[00:08:18] Matt: Guilty

[00:08:19] James: Yeah. There you go. I, I didn't even see that in you, but it makes sense

[00:08:23] Matt: that's funny that you say that cuz I mean adhd, I've always said, I was like, I've had undiagnosed ADHD ever since I was little. I mean, even now I'm sitting here, my knees are bouncing and that's just kind of like my prone state. My mom always called me a fidget. And one of my sons is also a fidget as well.

[00:08:38] Matt: It definitely plays a major role. And you know, like when crunch. Comes and you can't focus or the thoughts are flying so fast and you're trying anything that you can to latch onto one of them, it can be very, very daunting and difficult and crippling.

[00:08:52] Matt: it feels like uh, trying to grab a rock while you're rushing, down a river you are moving too [00:09:00] fast to even be able. To function and all you want is to cling on to like one thing to give you a little bit of stability, maybe you can, maybe you can't.

[00:09:08] Matt: Maybe you have to wait until the water's a little bit more calm, assuming you don't drown.

[00:09:12] James: sounds so difficult. I can't even fathom what that would feel like cuz you know, I haven't experienced that. But I can empathize cuz that just sounds like a nightmare. chasing a goal and you can't get there and it's just slipping through your fingers over and over again. it sounds kinda like that's what you're describing.

[00:09:29] Matt: and to a degree, I've had it my whole life, so I don't know what it's like without it,

[00:09:33] Matt: you know, it's like the old adage that, can't fear it. you don't know, . And so it's like, I don't really know the difference. I don't know how my brain would work if I didn't have it, but the end it doesn't matter because I've had it for so long and I've had to develop systems or good habits in my life that compensate for, you know, like I know this about me.

[00:09:57] Matt: I know that it's gonna take me longer to.[00:10:00] A song in some conditions than it would in other conditions. There are some days when it just flies freely. There are some days when I have to, write for hours and I get to the end and I'm like, I hate all of this. I'm gonna throw it away.

[00:10:10] Matt: There are some days when I sit down for, 30 seconds and I crank out a song and I'm like, this is the best song I've ever written. cuz I was, I was feeling creative. I was able to hold on to those thoughts. everybody's individual. Everybody has their own problems, their own struggles that they have to face. And so like all you can really do is develop good habits in your life you have to be able to isolate what the issue is. you're the type of person who you move too fast, maybe, maybe you need to integrate something like a meditation into your life that can just help you ground yourself.

[00:10:39] Matt: maybe life moves too slow or maybe. Find a way to put you outside of your comfort zone in a controlled environment where you can start learning how to branch out of the box that you're in, and you can really start to conquer the demons that are hiding below the surface of the water, so to speak.

[00:10:55] James: Yeah. It's incredibly difficult and I, just wanna say, shout out to all of the [00:11:00] people who have shared their struggles or neuro divergence with me, who inspired me to down the rabbit hole of learning more about this stuff over the last probably six months or so, because it really has helped me understand people a lot better.

[00:11:13] James: talking about like, friends that I've had for a decade plus. I'm like, oh man, they make sense now. Like,

[00:11:19] James: you several of them I've just been like, Hey, just wanted to check is this you? And they're like, oh yeah, that I have that. I'm like, I get it now.

[00:11:27] James: we weren't on the same page at any point, I apologize, so I'm not gonna name names of course cuz that's not my information to share. But I just wanna say thank you to those of you who have come forward to these things and inspired me to go down this, this journey of learning more about how the human mind works, which also I've discovered the human mind is really interesting.

[00:11:45] James: I mean, I took psychology in college, but I didn't care. I was in college. I was like, just gimme the audio classes.

[00:11:50] Matt: It was psychology in College

[00:11:55] James: Oh Matt, you're stealing my job.[00:12:00] [00:12:00] Matt: All

[00:12:00] James: I know this podcast is not a union shop, but come on, you know, better

[00:12:05] Matt: Oh, that I,

[00:12:06] Matt: couldn't

[00:12:06] James: Oh, it was just a little coy in psychology

[00:12:09] Matt: Oh, there you go. Ooh, psych college.

[00:12:12] James: Anyway, so to get into this episode, we've divided it into two major sections. We have your good habits and your bad habits that you cannot break if you're Tyler from Neon Trees. It's a good song. It's Anyway, we're gonna cover the good habits first, cuz we want to leave you on a negative note.

[00:12:30] James: I'm just kidding. We just put the good habits first because we like talking about happy stuff more than we like talking about sad stuff and all the bad habits are gonna have, you resolutions anyway. So we're not just gonna be like, don't do this. We're gonna say don't do this instead do

[00:12:42] James: this. So they all end on a positive note.

[00:12:47] Matt: That's just what I say when I look in the mirror every day, you know,

[00:12:49] James: That's gotta be amazing for your

[00:12:51] James: mental

[00:12:51] James: health

[00:12:52] Matt: of yep. Self slander is is a recipe for success.

[00:12:56] James: Yeah, and I, and I just wanna say like, we're keeping this episode light. We know it's [00:13:00] a really serious topic, but we also know that when you're talking about something this serious, you gotta keep it light

[00:13:06] Matt: Yep.

[00:13:06] James: otherwise it just gets to be a

[00:13:08] James: drag. don't want to take a topic like this and just make it boring where you're gonna tune out and you're not gonna listen because it's so important.

[00:13:15] James: We want you to listen to this. So for cracking jokes, do understand how serious this is. We but your first set of good habits is in the studio. And this is my favorite one cuz I love taking breaks. the engineer and I'm just like, okay, cool, let's take five. And I grab a bag of chips and I, you some water and all that.

[00:13:33] James: Realistically I'm a workaholic and I'm like, no, no breaks, keep going. But , I understand how important breaks are and especially if you're frustrated and you can't nail a take, you've done it 20 times and you just can't get it right. Be like, Hey, I need to take a break, please let me outta here. And if the engineer producer says, no, they're probably not a good fit for

[00:13:52] James: you.

[00:13:53] Matt: I've literally been, you know, in the vocal booth before frustrated, can't deal a take. of my big personal problems is taking criticism. I [00:14:00] don't take criticism very well, and especially in my early.

[00:14:03] Matt: would be like, oh, I'd work so hard on something and, and, and try so hard to get something. And then I'd go into the studio and start singing it and as soon as I take sing my take, I'd, you know, one of my band mates would be like, you do it just like this? Like, oh, well this part's flat.

[00:14:15] Matt: And it's like, yeah, I know. I don't need to hear where I screwed up this second after I screwed up. I'm aware that I screwed up. Trust. I'm here doing it. And that was like this huge hurdle that I had to get over personally. even on this last run in the studio Jesse would stand there right next to whoever was producing and say, do this.

[00:14:33] Matt: Try to sing it this way. and I'm there. I'm like trying to overcome muscle memory or like overcome the way I've been practicing it for a year and it's like, why are we changing melody lines now? it literally gave me anxiety. I've never enjoyed going to the studio, period.

[00:14:46] Matt: The only thing about the studio that I like is getting back the final product. And that's, a little bit of like, perfectionist in me, and it's a little bit of like, when you're creating art, you never know when your art is done.

[00:14:56] Matt: And then this last time we were there. my guitarist turned to my [00:15:00] producer and said, you know, I literally just told Matt all these different melody lines to sing, and he just sang them, just like, the difference now, 10 years later than it was 10 years ago is light years.

[00:15:10] Matt: it doesn't mean it's not still hard and very difficult for me to be able to do that. Because there's a lot of like humility that comes with that. And I've kind of had to let go a lot of my own presuppositions, but in. That has made my mental health, when I go to the studio a lot better, because there's something way more fantastic about hearing my bandaid say, oh, why don't you try singing that, while standing on your tippy toes?

[00:15:32] Matt: so then I sing it while standing on my tippy toes, and that just makes my take a little bit brighter. And then I see them dancing in the vocal booth or just dancing in the, In the mixing room, and when I see that, that gives me this burst of energy and that gives me this confidence, you know, and then it's like, oh, hey, they were dancing that one take, and then I, nailed the next 10 takes, having this environment where you can be humble where you can talk to the engineer and the producer and you can, figure out what type of feedback works best for you. One of my favorite things about working [00:16:00] with one of our producers is that, He knows how I work.

[00:16:03] Matt: He knows how I tick really well. I know my strengths and weaknesses, and so does he. he'll sit there and say, oh, you know, like, why don't you whisper that take, and really, he understands the sonics of my voice. And that's another really important thing is that because he knows my strengths and weaknesses, that allows him to come to me and say, Why don't you try doing that?

[00:16:21] Matt: And then I can layer it, and it gives him just like a better roadmap. then the overall procedure of writing a song, it's like, I'm happier, my guitarist is happier cause I'm trying new things. My producer's happier because I'm trying new things. And because he already sees the puzzle.

[00:16:35] Matt: that strengths and weaknesses can be like really, really powerful. and sometimes when you're in the vocal, you need to know what you need. for me, like I was saying earlier, a long time ago, I couldn't have other my band mates in the mixing room, I couldn't have them listening to my takes.

[00:16:48] Matt: It would drive me insane. There were times I'd literally kick Jesse out

[00:16:51] Matt: and that's okay.

[00:16:52] Matt: has a, a higher standard than I do, and I've learned that. And so, like, again, it's uh, a period of like humility where you have to understand that[00:17:00] your band mates are creating art too.

[00:17:01] Matt: So they, they have a say, but if you need them to leave or stay, Bert McCracken literally couldn't do his screaming parts when he was in the studio. And so his band mates threw pots and pans.

[00:17:13] James: Wait for real .

[00:17:15] James: fantastic.

[00:17:16] Matt: and pans at him hitting him with pots and pans and that that would hurt.

[00:17:19] Matt: But you know what that got him to, to scream some of those shrill horrendous screams and it really got his adrenaline pumping and it really. Caused them to put out some of the best records of the nineties, at least for the hardcore, emo scene he found his strengths, he found his weaknesses, or maybe one of his band mates did.

[00:17:38] Matt: he had enough humility to not walk out of the studio when that was happening. Now, I'm not saying that that's the best for your mental health. I'm sure that when he released that product, he was proud of it. You know, Burt McCracken is still touring, so there's something to be said about that.

[00:17:52] Matt: You he's on tour with a day to remember, they're still doing just fine, and having that longevity that's really [00:18:00] what the race is. you can either, Stay in the music industry long enough to be considered a success, or you can buckle under the weight of your mental health.

[00:18:08] Matt: So find out your strengths and weaknesses. ask your band mates to leave or to come I feel like I do worse when it's my band mates in the mixing room, but I do better when there's random people in the mixing room because I get nervous about sounding bad.

[00:18:21] Matt: I know those things. I'm a natural performer. My band mates have heard me perform tens of thousands of times, so I don't have that like itch to perform super well for them, psychologically. But you know, when somebody comes in and visits the studio and it's like, oh gosh, if I sound like crap, they're just gonna write us off forever. for me, all of these things kind of like mentally add up and when I'm in the booth, it can be very, very daunting. so it's like sometimes take a little. Make sure you got a full belly. Make sure you're hydrated. people that take waters into the vocal booth, you're killing your natural lubricants in your voice by drinking water in between takes.

[00:18:55] Matt: You wanna be warm when you go in there, so you need to be hydrated. eat a good breakfast before you go spend a full day [00:19:00] in the vocal booth. but these are all like really good habits to have and they might sound kind of negative. These are the tools that kind of equip you to like move forward.

[00:19:07] Matt: The more you practice, the more you prepare, the more you, can see yourself in your mind's eye, trying things and you know, and that this doesn't forego actual practice. But the more you can do these things, the more set for success you'll be.

[00:19:23] James: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the only thing I have to add to that, which, you know, you talked about taking criticism. I, two things to add really. The first thing is, yeah, taking criticism is a muscle. You have to build up that muscle to be able to do it. But the next thing is understanding, like you're saying, what kind of person you are in the studio.

[00:19:41] James: Don't be afraid to tell the engineer or the producer, Hey, this is the feedback style that I respond to. Maybe you need, you good, the bad, the good. That's a technique a lot of people use for feedback. Hey, that take was great. Love the energy. This one line was just a little sharp or a little flat, [00:20:00] but aside from that sounded really great.

[00:20:01] James: Why don't we do that one line again, we'll punch it in. Sound good? Or some other people might just react better to, okay. That one was good. Let's do it again. It really depends. So learning what kind of feedback you want from the people you're working with and communicating that to them is a really important step, I think.

[00:20:18] James: And it seems like you've learned that, Matt, That's the whole summary of what you're saying, but just to put it into two sentences. That's it. Learn what you respond to and communicate that to the people you're

[00:20:27] Matt: A hundred percent. that's the most powerful tool for being in the studio, the studio is a place of humil. You can either have humility when you're going in, or you will have humility when you're coming out and you're not satisfied with that product. we've talked a lot about building your circle and about, you know, having these good quality relationships with your band mates.

[00:20:43] Matt: The producer is the same. I've worked with producers who just say, okay, and

[00:20:48] Matt: go on to the next take, and you're just like, I remember one time recording an illusion in shambles with this guy, and I could feel the frustration off of the producer.

[00:20:57] Matt: so when I finally got into the vocal booth, I was just like [00:21:00] nervous. I nailed every take, but it was not a good experience. And then ironically, we ended up re-recording the whole song and going with somebody else. Anyway. I mean, there was a bad experience with the whole thing.

[00:21:09] Matt: There was this mental stigma. So if you can build good habits, surround yourself with good people, know your strengths and weaknesses, and go in with an open mind, then the weight of the studio will not crush you.

[00:21:20] James: Yeah, I think that's really important cuz the studio is where the process starts. You're not gonna go on tour without something to promote. At can, but that's not a great idea. So if the process starts poorly in the studio, that's gonna reflect on everything else down the road. And speaking of going on tour and being on the road, that's the next section we have.

[00:21:40] James: And to get things started, this is what always worked for me, and this is something I'd do at home too, is have a rhythm. So when I was on Warp tour most days, we had to be ready by 8:00 AM So I'd wake up at six 30, I would get dressed, hopefully the bus was already at the venue. If it wasn't, we were. I'd be off the bus by [00:22:00] seven if we were there. Go to catering, get breakfast, enjoy a nice leisurely half hour breakfast, cereal, fruit, whatever. Come back to the bus, brush my teeth, get my stuff ready, and be outside by 7 55. I was always out there at least five minutes early because I didn't wanna be that guy. And there were people on the team who they would be late and they'd get called out for it

[00:22:20] James: cuz that slowed everything down. So have a healthy schedule.

[00:22:23] James: I do the same thing here, like don't remember if it was exactly six 30 when I was on tour, but I I get up at six 30, I get on the bike for half an hour, hop in the shower at seven, have breakfast, start work at eight, and that's my morning routine every single weekday. Maybe I'll try to sleep in until seven 30 or eight on the weekends.

[00:22:41] James: But I have that routine. The next thing you know, I already mentioned breakfast, is eat healthy and just have that schedule, that routine with your meals. one, or actually a couple of the times I was on tour, it was just totally random when we would get to eat, cuz sometimes we'd be leaving a hotel at five in the morning.

[00:22:57] James: Sometimes we'd be leaving at nine and it all depended. cuz [00:23:00] I was the driver for that tour. I would wake up as close to the time we needed to leave as possible so I could get the maximum amount of sleep to drive safely. So I would wake up and have some leftovers, brush my teeth and hop in the van.

[00:23:12] James: I gave myself, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. But the schedule changed every day. Then when we went to get lunch, sometimes it would be 11, sometimes it would be two or. got to the venue, sometimes I would set up the merch table and then I'd have to find food. Other times there would be food right next door and I could just grab food and eat before I set up the merch.

[00:23:32] James: It all changed drastically from day to day. That was a really tough tour for me. Like I wasn't able to stay on that routine. I would get hangry, you wouldn't have eaten in like six or seven hours and be like, man, I need food. I'm not gonna eat for two hours. Like, this is tough.

[00:23:48] James: And so having that rhythm, if you are the defacto tour manager for your band, make sure you have that option available. even if some days you leave at 5:00 AM and some days you leave at nine or 10, doesn't matter. [00:24:00] Try to plan it out so you can have a stop at seven or have breakfast in the hotel lobby at seven, whatever it is.

[00:24:06] James: Provide that option to people if they need that rhythm, which frankly I think pretty much everyone does. Some people skip breakfast, a breakfast person. I can't do that. Give people the opportunity to have that rhythm.

[00:24:17] Matt: Absolutely. I think that's perfect. I mean, you have so many things that are out of your control, you don't control when loading is you don't control when you play. You don't control when you're gonna leave.

[00:24:28] Matt: All of these things are kind of dictated for you. if you want a healthy mental state while you're on the road. Schedule as many things as you can. Create as much routine as you possibly can with the pieces that you have. these things are gonna change on a day to day basis.

[00:24:41] Matt: The one thing that really can't afford to change is things like rest. Like you have to sleep every night no matter what. sometimes you're gonna be leaving a little bit later than you're expecting. Sometimes you're leaving earlier. So ways that you can kind of control these things is like, have good supplements with you.

[00:24:56] Matt: like magnesium is something that like a lot of people are really deficient in, and it's [00:25:00] a great mood relaxer and it helps you fall asleep. So like once you finish playing and you're loaded up, go drink some water with some magnesium in it. It'll help you start to relax.

[00:25:08] Matt: It'll help you fall asleep. Maybe your light sleeper, maybe noise canceling headphones are a really, really phenomenal thing for you. Maybe vitamin D is a fantastic supplement for you as well you're in dark venues all the time. You're in your vehicle all the time.

[00:25:21] Matt: You might not be getting very much sunlight and things like that. All of these things like affect your mood pretty drastically.

[00:25:26] Matt: Take some vitamin D and see how well you feel. It really is the difference between night and day sometimes where it's like, wow, all of a sudden I feel like I have the energy to face the day. I feel like my body is revitalized, like, oh, my skin is feeling better. there's all sorts of benefits.

[00:25:40] Matt: But the big thing is that it's something that you can control. Some things are about elimination, some things are about additives. Sometimes you eliminate, like, oh, you know, you're sleeping on a bad mattress pad Or you're, you're eliminating playing music while you drive so that way your brain can like, really turn off while you're resting. Some of the [00:26:00] time it's like, no, I, I have to have noise canceling headphones because my drummer has sleep apnea. guess what?

[00:26:04] Matt: that's a must. And if I hope to have any sleep, I either need to like knock myself out with Benadryl, which I don't recommend, but it does work. Or you need to have like some other tool that kind of helps you circumnavigate that. Cause I tell you what, if you go for three weeks with poor sleep and poor diet, you will get to the end of that tour and you will never want to go on the road again.

[00:26:26] Matt: have good medicines, have good supplements, have good noise canceling headphones and have a good. you have all these things, that's a cocktail for success on the road.

[00:26:34] James: absolutely agreed. And it's so important, and you might be thinking about, is all like physical stuff. Well, yeah, but your mind is not gonna be in good shape if you neglect your body. That's really what it comes down to.

[00:26:46] Matt: Yep,

[00:26:46] James: don't get sleep, your mind's not gonna function. If you don't feed yourself properly, it's not gonna function.

[00:26:52] James: I know bands love going to Taco Bell, and I'm not gonna lie, like Taco Bell has some good vegan stuff, like I'll get a crud wrap once in a while, [00:27:00] but I don't want to eat Taco Bell every day. And to be honest, it's not that cheap. go there and a crunch wrap is like $8. I can go get a, like vegan burger from a vegan spot for 10 to 12, saving $2 worth eating at Taco Bell.

[00:27:13] James: And plus the, you know, the Taco Bell are pretty tiny.

[00:27:16] Matt: Plus then you gotta spend an extra 20 minutes at the bathroom at your next gas station.

[00:27:19] James: Yeah. And you don't know when that's gonna be either.

[00:27:22] Matt: right. And you always have one guy in the band, you know, one guy in the band who decides that they need to go to the bathroom when everybody else is, is all done and they're all back on the

[00:27:29] Matt: bus.

[00:27:30] James: Yep. the number one rule on the bus is no. Number two,

[00:27:34] Matt: That's right.

[00:27:36] Matt: The third, aspect that we kind of wanna touch on is practice. this is a less prominent one, but it is a really important one. it's easy to kind of forget that this is so integral. But when you're there to practice, you're there to practice, that's good.

[00:27:47] Matt: You should be making progress. But there's more than one thing that you can do to fortify your mental health. This is the time that you joke around and have fun with your band mates. This is when it's time to get practice done, but don't forget that your friends [00:28:00] first and that your, business partner is second, when you develop these awesome relationships, these fantastic memories, you those are the things that you go back and remember.

[00:28:08] Matt: Like, I've played so many shows. I forget tons of, performances that I've had, but I do remember like going to Niagara Falls with my band mates. I do remember, acting like kids in Texas driving scooters through the rain, stuff like that that is not music related, these are things that really fortify the relationships surrounding the band. And it's never a chore to spend the time with people that you love doing fun things, when there's an opportunity for fun things like do it. If you have a chance to like go to a museum while you're in some different city as a band, go do it.

[00:28:40] Matt: it doesn't have to be a photo shoot. It doesn't have to be for TikTok videos. It doesn't have to be for likes. It can be for pure self enjoyment. It can be for these things that really make you feel whole and. Go with your band mates. Have fun. If tempers start to flare up, take five minutes.

[00:28:55] Matt: recognize when others in the band might be taking their frustrations out on you. [00:29:00] Realize when you might be taking your frustrations out on other people. it's okay to be like, Hey guys, gonna sit out on this, run of the song, that we're practicing because maybe my throat hurts, maybe I'm tired.

[00:29:11] Matt: Maybe I just. I need a break. Maybe we're practicing the day before. We need to go into the studio, and I don't wanna kill myself. strain my voice or whatever. there's plethora of variables that, that you could be analyzing. But the big thing is, is your friends, you love each other, the practice.

[00:29:26] Matt: Space in general is a safe space. it's a safe haven for everybody to come together, to be themselves, to work, to progress. But part of the way that we progress is by being real, open, honest, truthful, transparent, vulnerable. And on top of that these are like your best friends.

[00:29:43] Matt: It's not a chore being yourself around your friends. you know, These are some of the few people in your life where you can be yourself 100% of the time, and they're still going to love you for it, assuming that you know you haven't done nothing, but make emotional withdrawals from the relationship.

[00:29:57] Matt: Hopefully you've made some emotional deposits too, but [00:30:00] remember that you know these people care about you and you care about them. And so first and foremost, it's a space of progression and just.

[00:30:09] James: Yeah, absolutely. And you to add to that, when we say if tempers flare, take a break. That's directed at, if somebody's getting upset at you, if you're the person getting upset at someone, you need to stop, take a breath, and apologize. You have to do those three things if you keep yelling at them whether they take a break and walk out or not.

[00:30:27] James: That is going to leave a cut on them. it's gonna cut them emotionally, and you don't want that to happen. And I've seen this working in the studio with artists. I remember very clearly at one point the guitarist and songwriter of a band yelling at the bass player saying, why can't you play this? It's not that difficult.

[00:30:48] James: I wrote it. I know. And I'm just like, dude,

[00:30:51] James: it's that easy, why don't you do it? Why do you have a bass player? If you can do it, you do it.

[00:30:55] James: And guess what? He couldn't .

[00:30:57] Matt: Yep, that's

[00:30:58] James: maybe he wrote it, but he [00:31:00] doesn't know how to play bass. And the thing is, he wrote it on a guitar. The frets are closer.

[00:31:04] James: That's really what it came down to. He was asking the bass player to go from like the third fret to the ninth fret in a split second, which that's a big leap. And he was just hitting the eighth fret or the 10th fret because he was trying to do it so quickly I mean on a guitar you can basically do it just by moving up a string.

[00:31:19] James: But bass has four strings instead of six strings, so he couldn't just move to the next string, he had to actually go down the fret board. That made it more complicated as well. Plus, with a bass, you move up a string. Even if he had been able to do that, you get that thinner tinny base sound rather than nice full base sound if you go up the neck on the lower strings.

[00:31:39] James: So all that said, recognize if you're the problem, that's a big thing. If you're the problems, take a step back and apologize and find a way to make sure that doesn't happen again. You don't wanna blow up at people like that. That is not okay.

[00:31:52] James: Anyway, this is gonna be the last section of our good habits, and this is at home.

[00:31:56] James: communicating effectively. So your family, your [00:32:00] friends, your loved ones are okay with you being gone for two weeks, four weeks, months, at a time. Because that puts a strain on any relationship, especially if it's people you live with.

[00:32:12] James: So you want to make sure that you communicate this in advance, and first just sit down for a chat on a regular basis. I would recommend either weekly or monthly to discuss plans and goals for the future, and not just your plans and goals, the plans and goals of whoever you're talking to.

[00:32:27] James: Because if it's totally one sided, if you're saying, I want to do this, I want to do that, that's not a building block for a successful relationship. If you both talk about what you want and what you plan on doing, and have a healthy way to compromise and find something that works for everyone, that's good.

[00:32:44] James: Now, if your partner says, I don't ever want you touring again. You have to make that decision. There's a great article a few years ago, released by, I believe, the guitarist of the main. Where he went into detail about basically like the love of his life, asked him to stop touring, and he [00:33:00] realized he had to make that decision.

[00:33:01] James: And he actually split up with his girlfriend or fiance like, no, I love touring. I love our fans. This is what I have to do. And he was heartbroken by it, but he had to make that decision rather than trying to do both, because he knew that she would never be happy when he was gone half the year, and he would never be happy not playing shows ever again.

[00:33:21] James: And that's an incredibly tough decision. But they did the mature thing and talked about it. And I see so many people that don't talk about things like this, so, Be sure to have a chat and check in because opinions change. Maybe something that worked five years ago or even five months ago doesn't work now.

[00:33:38] James: And by having that realistic opportunity to express yourselves in a safe space, no temper, no anger, nothing like that. It's an incredibly important, so that's a really good habit to have is communicate and have it on a schedule. So you don't say, oh, well we'll talk about it soon. We'll talk about it soon.

[00:33:54] James: No, you're gonna talk about it every Wednesday at 2:00 PM or every second of the month or the [00:34:00] second Saturday or whatever. You have a set schedule that you're gonna stick to. And if you can't make it happen at that time, cuz you have something going on, you're going to set another time to do it.

[00:34:09] James: And that's not gonna be way out in the future. It's gonna be, you next day or something.

[00:34:13] James: not going to miss that because that is so incredibly important in any relationship and.

[00:34:18] James: That's how you have the mental capacity to focus on music when you're doing music, because if your life is a mess, you're not gonna be able to focus on music either.

[00:34:27] James: That's the unfortunate truth.

[00:34:29] Matt: That brings us into bad habits. There are a plethora of bad habits that you can get into when it comes to mental health. So we're gonna start with the. Just like it is absolutely wonderful to go into the studio knowing your strengths and weaknesses.

[00:34:42] Matt: We realize that this isn't always the case for people. Sometimes you have to go through the ringer in order to understand what your strengths and weaknesses are. So you should not criticize your band mates in a manner. that is degrading. You should really try to constructively work together so that you can achieve the best outcome [00:35:00] together.

[00:35:00] Matt: These are your friends. You probably already know how you interact with them. Maybe your friends are the types of people that you can throw insults at them and, and they think it's fun. Maybe they're the type of people who, if you insult them, they will shut down entirely. you should know these things about your band mates and you should take that into the studio with you and realize that, hey, if.

[00:35:19] Matt: Joe is really good about positive words, then let's throw positive words at Joe, maybe we do the compliment sandwich with Joe. One thing that you should also be wary of is being a pushover. So let's say. you're not criticizing your band mates, but your other band mates are criticizing you, and they're not doing it in a way that is going to result in the best possible product coming out of the studio.

[00:35:44] Matt: you should not be afraid to put your foot down. If feedback crosses the line, then it crosses the line. You need to make a very distinct line. It's like, Hey, you know, you can do this, you can do that. But throwing pots and pans at me is too much. You need to know these strengths and weaknesses about, [00:36:00] yourself.

[00:36:00] Matt: if you have thin skin about something, don't be afraid to be vulnerable with your band mates and say like, Hey, I really don't like this kind of negativity. I really don't like when I can hear you sighing into the microphone when I don't nail a take. if you know that you're one of those people who doesn't respond well to sighing, and your band mate is in there sighing every two seconds, then maybe you should uh, kick them outta the studio. That's okay. having these open conversations with your band mates is really going to allow you to excel in the studio and eliminate as many of the bad habits as you possibly can without becoming mentally bogged down and controlled by all of these external.

[00:36:36] James: Yeah. Ultimately comes down to, like you were saying, Matt, don't let yourself be walked over and don't be that person who walks all over other people. Like back to that example I gave in the uh, practice section of good habits where were kind of already touching on bad habits where I explained about guys that it's so easy you can't play it.

[00:36:53] James: Like that's a bad habit coming at someone like that. Don't do that. That's the worst thing you could do.[00:37:00] Maybe say, Hey, what part of this is difficult to play? Maybe we can figure out a different way to play it. Just reframe it. Because those two guys were basically at each other's throats that day. rest of the day after that, tensions were high, they didn't come back down.

[00:37:15] James: And that affected the whole project. anyway, the next one, Matt, on the road, and you added a really good one here, if you wanna take it away.

[00:37:21] Matt: Oh yeah, absolutely. So the big thing is we all love to party. whether it's a social party, whether, you're straight edge or not, we all love the social interaction. but this is not why you are on tour. if it is why you're on tour, then you should reevaluate because it's not why your band mates are on tour.

[00:37:35] Matt: And so you're gonna get to the end of this tour and you guys are gonna be at each other's throat. What's worse is you might be bottling up those emotions, or you might have somebody who's a really big personality that doesn't realize that these things are getting to their band mates and then you start to create schisms and ultimately this will lead to band members leaving your tour.

[00:37:54] Matt: I have seen plenty of tours where one of the band members leaves where a hired gun needs to be brought on in order to [00:38:00] help out. Where somebody says, I need to take this break for mental health All of those things are basically just, they build up and they build up, and they build up until they finally, the dam breaks and everything is washed away, including all of your progress.

[00:38:13] Matt: like you were saying, James, with, the developing good relationships and Outlining goals with significant others. The same goals for your band mates. You know, these are significant others, these are relationships. if you talk to them and you set clear goals, and you set clear expectations, and you say, oh, on Monday we're gonna make this happen, and on this week we're gonna make this happen.

[00:38:32] Matt: and maybe there is a good time that says like, oh, hey guys, on Friday we're gonna be on this city and this place and we really wanna party. You Okay, well the party years then have. What's important to them laid out, and the other people who don't party have what's important to them laid out, and everything works much better.

[00:38:48] Matt: And both people can end up going and doing exactly what they want. That story I told a little bit ago about riding scooters through the rain in Dallas. I did that with my drummer while my other band mates went and did their own thing. That's okay. [00:39:00] But it was fun. they did their own thing. We did our own thing.

[00:39:02] Matt: We came back together at the end and all of us felt recharged. We set clear goals, so to speak, you know, for what we were doing for the day. And then we chased it, and in the end it left us all feeling much more revitalized and able to continue the tour just fine.

[00:39:16] Matt: the exhaustion that comes from bottling up emotions and from not being on the same page, it leaves you feeling drained mentally, physic. it's enough to break up a band, it's enough to sever relationships for long periods of time, not indefinitely.

[00:39:30] Matt: So make sure that you're all on the same page. Make sure you have clearly laid out goals, and then chase them together.

[00:39:36] James: you're saying, bottling things up does not work out. I've never seen that work out for anyone, especially if it's at the point where you're telling other people about, oh, so and so did this, so and so did that, and then it gets back to that person that is the worst thing that fuels the fire so badly and will literally make the band implode.

[00:39:56] James: That's not what you ever want to have happen.

[00:39:58] Matt: Another important thing to do on the road is [00:40:00] if you're tired and you're driving, then ask someone else to drive. And if nobody in the van can keep their eyes open, then don't drive. This is just a pretty basic safety one, but it is a bad habit on the road and nothing hurts mental health quite like a car accident or rolling your van.

[00:40:14] Matt: So just stay away from that. You know, wisdom says rest, sleep is one of the most important things about our humanity. if you need rest, then take the rest. It's okay to show up a little bit late to e load in if you have to, if that means you actually show up. So that's a very important thing.

[00:40:29] Matt: don't drive tired.

[00:40:30] Matt: That's

[00:40:31] James: Agreed.

[00:40:31] James: Yeah, a hundred percent. And add to that, you don't have to be physically tired. You can also be mentally tired if your mind is just totally burned out because you're stressed about something, you're worried about something and and you can't focus, you might not be falling asleep, but your brain is not functioning at full capacity, that's another time to just say, Hey, I can't focus on this.

[00:40:52] James: Can somebody else please drive? wanna be at a hundred percent if you're driving around in a vehicle that weighs probably 10,000 [00:41:00] pounds with a bunch of other people in it, because you have a lot of lives at stake, both in that van and in other vehicles on the road that are much smaller than what you're driving safe when you drive Matt, I think you and I, we all know people who have been in van crashes. know the front of house engineer for, silent Planet.

[00:41:16] James: They rolled their van on ice in Wyoming like two weeks ago.

[00:41:21] Matt: Yeah. Literally the, the day after they played Denver. I saw them that night.

[00:41:25] James: They were going from, Denver to Salt Lake.

[00:41:29] James: saw the first reports. I'm like, oh man, that sucks. And then my friend posted it and I was like, oh, that's who he's on tour with right now. That sucks. it was the same area where Bayside rolled their van back in or

[00:41:41] Matt: ago. Yep. lost a band member.

[00:41:43] James: I mean, driving on ice just in general is sketchy, especially since most vans don't have winter tires. Like you get a rental van, it's not gonna have winter tires on it, so that's dangerous.

[00:41:53] James: But then you're pulling a trailer too. That is Not good

[00:41:56] Matt: Well, this brings us to practice which is very similar to being in the [00:42:00] studio. bad habits or don't throw unnecessary criticism around. Don't be harsh. working together provides the best outcome. good practices are, showing up to practice on time, respecting other people's time.

[00:42:10] Matt: Bad practices are showing up like a, grumpy attitude and, being angry. What other people are doing, or, or, you know, it's just, again, it's all about open communication, working together. I think we all know what a good practice looks and feels like, and I think we all know what good habits in our own practice spaces look like. So, that's a pretty basic one.

[00:42:32] James: Matt, I know you gotta run cuz we're running short on time here. But thank you so much. It's a pleasure to have you back. I'm gonna finish up this last section by myself and then I'm looking forward to doing the next part about physical health with you, hopefully next Wednesday, and we'll keep

[00:42:47] James: going.

[00:42:47] Matt: Awesome. That'll be the

[00:42:48] Matt: plan. Thanks for having me

[00:42:49] James: so much, Matt. My pleasure.

[00:42:51] James: All right, so the last thing is at home. because when you're home, you're separate from your band and you wanna make sure that your communication with your band mates is [00:43:00] staying as effective as it should be, even when you're with them. And the same goes for people at home that you live with, whether they're, you by blood, brothers, siblings, parents, or people you're in a relationship with.

[00:43:12] James: You wanna make sure that you're not giving anyone the silent treatment because that is just incredibly toxic and not productive. It's very easy to ghost people when you're communicating online, and especially if you just had a long tour and you got back and you're frustrated at your band. It might be tempting to ignore them.

[00:43:29] James: Don't do it. Same thing is if your family is frustrated that you're leaving, don't give them the solid treatment. Touring is a huge step, and even if you've done it before, you have to get your life in order before you leave. I know back when I was touring, it was always difficult to be away from my family and loved ones.

[00:43:45] James: because you're not gonna see them for six weeks, eight weeks, however long it is. And it's not a vacation. It is work. a lot of people kind of think tour's vacation. It's not. And if people in your family or your circle don't understand that, you might get back and you're [00:44:00] exhausted and they're frustrated immediately that you're not doing X, Y, Z.

[00:44:04] James: And it's like, I got back last night. This is the first time I've slept well in two months. let me have some rest. And they're like, no, no, you just had this great time. You're on tour. It's like, no, that's not what tour is. So communicating openly and effectively, like we discussed earlier, is what you absolutely have to do.

[00:44:20] James: to wrap this all up, mental health is incredibly important, and our physical health ties into that because you can't have a happy mind if you don't have a happy body. Now, the inverse is not necessarily true. There are people out there who have a healthy body, but their mind is not in the state that it should be in ideally.

[00:44:38] James: So I'm not gonna say like, Hey, if you're physically healthy, your mind is gonna be great too, because that's just not true. But if your body is physically healthy, you have a much better chance of your mind being healthy as well. So stay tuned for that episode. It should be the next one, or at the worst case scenario, it's gonna be number 1 61, which is the second episode from now. either way. Thank you for listening to [00:45:00] this. I really hope that all of the things we've talked about will will give you some ways to better frame how you interact with your band mates, your family, your loved ones, whoever it is, so you can have the most effective music career, all while staying as healthy as possible. Again, if you need help, we are not professionals, please seek out a professional. If you go to Music Cares or backline, they can help you. But aside from that, look up people in your area who can help because ultimately all we can do is share our experience.

[00:45:31] James: We're not licensed therapists or anything like that. We just know what has worked for us in our travels, in our time working in the music industry. So please, if you need more help, go seek that out and don't be worried about what people are gonna say, because you know what?

[00:45:47] James: Everybody has a blip at some point. That's just how life is. So go do what you gotta do to stay healthy.

[00:45:53] James: That does it for this episode of the Bandhive Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. I really appreciate it and I'm [00:46:00] super stoked to have Matt back. It's so nice to have a co-host who I can bounce ideas off of and who can bring amazing ideas to the podcast as well. So thank you, Matt, for coming back and for anyone who's listening, if you're not already subscribed, please do that.

[00:46:15] James: Cuz Matt, he's a great co-host. He's entertaining all that kind of stuff, and you don't wanna miss the upcoming episodes, so whether you're in Spotify, apple, whatever app you use, please hit that subscribe button and make sure to listen every week because we're gonna have lots of amazing tips Coming your way. We'll be back with another brand new episode next Tuesday at 6:00 AM Eastern. Until then, I hope you have a great week. Stay safe, and of course, as always, key rocking.